Interesting Day Finding Ammunition....

Hmmmmm....interesting lessons learned today in going about town to find certain ammunitions for a class to which I have registered at our local gun club.

The requirements for the gun safety course is classroom for most of the two days and then some range time.

We are required to bring 50 rounds of factory loaded ammunition.

I have chosen to bring my revolver ..a .357 Magnum...six shot Ruger GP100.



I had hoped to find a box of 50 count .38 Special ammunition but after going to four places I finally found a box of 50 rounds of .357 Magnum.

It was expensive at $44.00 for a box of 50. Ammunition's here in America is indeed in short supply.

I will however.... in using a revolver...be easily able to secure all my spent rounds for reloading...and will also be able to reload these spent cases numerous times....unlike a semi automatic firearm wherein you have to chase your expended cases all over the range.

This is one of the reasons I like revolvers...I don't have to chase my spent brass all over the range...


The irony is that I reload .38 Special and .357 Magnum ammunition both and have plenty..but the course will not allow us to use reloaded Ammunition.

LOL LOL LOL....Go figure..

Most likely it is insurance requirements/liabilities surrounding these courses.

I have .38 Special and also 357 Magnum cases aplenty put back for future use as well as plenty of reloads already manufactured in that calibration...but it is a bit of an irony to me about the course requirements.

But ...I will work with it...

The stories I have heard on these sites are true and places which sold guns and had ammunition would mostly sell the ammo with a gun purchase..


And now you know the rest of the story...


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

I'll give a further post on how things went in the coming class to which I will be attending..

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Used some guvment stimulus money today. Traveled to a gun show. Bought some "reasonably" priced ammo. The only reasonably priced ammo is non-standard caliber/ga. ammunition. Decades back, I knew that one day popular ammunition would go too expensive to purchase. Today, ammo in 20 ga. and 7.62x54R was still reasonable. Got 20 ga 3" mag loaded with #1 buckshot was $15 for box of 10 shells (Italian ammo). The 20 ga is .60 caliber; the slugs make a .44 mag. look sissy -- especially at over 1600 ft/sec. The #1 buck is spec.ed @ 1300 ft sec. = death and mayhem.

Popular ammunition calibers, I put back decades ago. So, now have plenty with which to go range-blasting / staying in practice. Need to get back to the pool halls also.

Got some subsonic .22 LR for a semi-reasonable price. Sending ammo to kith and kin. It don't take no high velocity .22 ammo to drop squirrels and rabbits. Sh##!, .22 short out pump rifles has killed innumerable rabbits. My dad had locations in country stores and I'd see poor boys, POOR boys, come in to buy 5 rnds of .22 shorts standard velocity. For a poor family, any meat is meat, B12 = keep a family alive another month. My dad liked it when as the house, he got hit. He was tickled pink one time when a man won a bag of groceries at our expense off one of our machines.

Rimfire twenty-twos will put food on the table. Annie Oakley fed her family and propped-up her mom's farm mortgage with pelts. Her daddy abandoned her, her siblings, and her mom. Thus, she became an expert shot. Both my grandfathers were experts with their firearms due to poverty.

My paternal Pap would take the heads off rabbits with his .32 Long S&W revoler. Side note; today I saw a pepperbox in .32 rimfire. These .32s would put food on the table.

These .32s allowed ladies of the evening to give religion to perverts. I bet the pepper box I saw today served its purpose back in the day. Pervs had a tendency to develop lead poisoning. This, to protect women and children.

I think we had a pervert in our neighborhood that targeted a boy who didn't have a father. Thinking back on this, maybe I should have told my dad about that perv, maybe should have informed an uncle about the perv. The perv would have disappeared. Good thing that would have been. I was young and didn't understand the depth of their danger to society. The boy I knew was god-awful poor, lived on a landowner's property, sharecropping I guess. He was a year older than me, tall, and so I guess I thought he could take care of himself. Hope he did. Hoped he'd a'stabbed that man. Had he'd a'asked me, I'd'a given him a knife -- I collected knives from the first grade on. Have two of those >50yr.old folding knives in my desk drawer right now; another in my dad's tool box sitting beside me. Pocket knives and cigarette lighters, the joys of childhood. Lest I forget, silver coins out the 1960s gambling machines. Memories.

Anybody else receiving guv money, think to use it for free speech -- which is to say, go buy a gun and ammunition. There's no free speech, there's no right to vote, without guns being in the hands of the people. There are only two forms of government on Earth -- ones wherein the people fear the government and ones wherein the government fears the people. If you do not believe this to be true, you are far too naive with which to reason. You are still an adolescent. Being nice will get you raped to death.
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I found a store not to far from me that had an ample supply of ammunition if you wanted to pay for it. I don't need it badly enough to pay a $1.00 a round for 9 mm. 45 ACP was over $1.00 a round. I will wait it out, and see if prices come back to earth.

 

Yep, me too.

This is why we stocked-up back when. Preppers foresee these things. Preppers do not trust. Preppers know history's lessons, unpleasant lessons.

We bought us a little rice-rocket 4-cyl car this year. It still has a warranty on it. My SUV that I like is a gas-guzzler, so when this socialist administration came in, we decided for me to use a 4-cyl for commutes and any long-distance gotta-be-theres. I have no storage tanks for gas so I'll conserve until a heavier machine is needed. Post-SHTF, we will all be stealing gas out of vehicles abandoned by their not-going-to-survive owners. Better we get it than any bands of criminals. Military will bring their own.

Ammo is another realm in which we ants get to laugh at the grasshoppers.
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Yeah...me too..

I am mostly concerned about reloading supplies..but they too have gone up significantly in price....as well as become scarce.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

Yep and apparently, primers are the item most in short supply.

I've never been big on reloading. Got a tiny setup for just one caliber for bolt actions. Only have a few hundred primers. Wrapped their boxes in plastic and put'em in a dedicated ammo can. Just haven't been shooting as much. Getting old; got a lot of irons in the fire; don't feel as well as I once did. All that.

This is why I standardized on military rifles and ammo over 40 years ago. Good thing I did.

Funny now that one can get obscure / "obsolete" calibers, yet have to pay through the nose for standard calibers. Hunting caliber prices have gone nuts, however about a month ago I picked up some boxes of soft point 7.62x54R Nagant ammo at regular price, less than $25/box. Since it is an ancient/proven, military/hunting round world-wide, the ammo for it is available world-wide.

Here's something to think about: How many countries is it from whom you have bought ammo?! If you start-up the old memory banks, we've all bought ammo from every corner of the globe.

Me, lord lord!, I don't even know from where all I've bought ammo. U.S., U.K., Greece, Germany, Italy, all of the East European former communist block countries, Russia, Mexico, Indonesia, China, ...

Greek .303 bound for Hong Kong police (Gurkha troop serving as police). That "fell of the truck" ammo was great, still have a bit. Lacquered primers, annealed necks, non-corrosive primers, ... just the best.

Some NATO spec. 9mm I got out of Indonesia was super accurate. Their white boxes had a tied ribbon around them = downright cute. However if someone were shooting at you with this stuff, you'd not think it cute ... in what time you had left.

Got in some crap 7.62NATO out of India. Cases were sticky. I think that they were waxed to protect the cases from the horrid weather. They still hadn't aged well. Fired fine, but I'd had my worries about it. Accuracy wasn't anything impressive as I remember (been a way long time ago).
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Visiting a gun store today. Saw that .45 Auto ammo is showing back up; prices too high. What 9mm was on the shelf was astronomic in price -- $2/round for FMJ, double that for hollow-points. There was a goodly amount of surplus military in 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R available -- there was some price-gouging going on, but not like for 9mm and .38 Special. Didn't see any .357. This confirmed to me why we preppers are are the ants and not the grasshoppers.

On a side note, I was in an auto parts store today and another fellow and I were just shooting the sh##. In the South, people talk to each other. I'd said nothing about being a prepper, just that the economy was looking ominous, then he said that he was a prepper and was glad that he'd put a bunch of stuff back because now inflation is starting to blow-up. Once we got to talking, he confided that he had stacks of ammunition for the coming festivities. I'd estimate that in my county there are over 2,000 people who are what we would describe as preppers, actively store food and ammunition. He really helped me out with some car-talk / which oil types to use in small car engines, mine in particular. Even gave me some chain-saw maintenance advice -- I destroyed a chain last week. He is one of the many folk in this community who rebuild engines of every sort. He is now doing electrical work. This man is in no way unique in his abilities here in Heartland America. Part of it is poverty and part of it is being OCD. I told him that I so loved this region of America having lived in other parts.
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Amen Olde Geezer...Amen!!!!

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.


Oh.....I almost forgot...

I am getting verily disappointed in Bass Pro around here.

They have little to nothing on their shelves in ammo and even reloading supplies.

While going about making some small purchases about town..I stopped in for a quick check...

Zero Balance in just about anything of which I might be interested.

Need to check a specific store across the river.....

Watcherchris.

 

Can't count on major chains like Bass Pro. Y'gotta find merchants who know people who know people ... who know people. And internationally, things fall off trucks.

 

My last trip to the Bass Pro Shop was probably my last. It seems that they have moved from being a sporting goods store to more of a family clothing store. For me it is a 2-hour drive to see something that isn't really any better than the Accadamy that we have here.

I think, at least here, that it is where I live. We are in a small town surrounded by lakes and rivers. A lot of the people here retired to here from Houston. If it weren't for a big University, the average age here would probably be a little higher than a lot of places.

I live 20 miles from that little city in the woods on the outskirts of a TINY town of less than 500 mostly scattered out in the woods. We have very little crime. Every few years some dumba$$ decides to try burglarizing some place and ends up VERY dead and that is the end of that for a few more years.

I knew a guy that put a stand, like a deer stand, on his property after his business was robbed twice in 6 months. Three months later he shot and killed two wanta be thieves and that seems to have made his point. They cut the chain on his gate to drive in and that was all it took to make it a legal kill. If they had limited their crime to stealing the petty cash it might have not made him so mad. They instead would just trash the entire place and destroy the computers and other office machinery. They were trash and they got what they deserved.That is just the way things go here.

 

I suspect that if it comes to having to basically fight a war to survive that not many are going to survive. To avoid that if possible you might want to make plans for a more isolated place. A word of warning. Don't think that moving to a man-made reservoir will be a good place for long. Without people operating the dam the first big flood it is going to top the dam and cut it down. What was a beautiful huge lake will over night become a giant mud hole. Even worse is to settle down below one of these huge lakes. I live in East Texas and if you look at a map you will see that we have a lot of huge lakes all over the place. They are mostly power generating lakes that require constant attention.

 

A word from Remington concerning their production of ammunition. Watch the video on this link.

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/07/big-green-ammo-is-back-on-shelf/#axzz71YraTHOl

 

Im Interested in brands like Alliant, IMR and Hodgdon..but that's just me.

Thanks. Appreciate the heads up.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

"Biden Administration Bans Importation of Russian Ammunition"

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210822/biden-administration-bans-importation-of-russian-ammunition

"The State Department claims that it is imposing these 'sanctions on the Russian Federation over its use of a 'Novichok' nerve agent in the August 2020 poisoning of Russian opposition figure Aleksey Navalny.' While that may be a viable reason for the United States government to sanction the Russian Federation, the ammunition import restriction seems more aimed at punishing American gun owners and businesses than as a foreign policy tool to influence the Russian Federation.

"Ammunition exports to the United States are only a small percentage of the GDP of the Russian Federation, but Russian origin ammo makes up a large part of the American ammunition supply. American gun owners were already suffering from a market where demand was exceeding available supply. This new move by the Biden Administration will severely worsen the present supply problems.

"The release goes on to note that the new policy:

"'will take effect upon the publication of a Federal Register notice expected on September 7, 2021, and they will remain in place for a minimum of 12 months. The sanctions can only be lifted after a 12-month period if the Executive Branch determines and certifies to Congress that Russia has met several conditions . . . including (1) providing reliable assurances that it will not use chemical weapons in violation of international law, (2) it is not making preparations to use chemical weapons in the future, (3) it is willing to allow international inspectors to verify those assurances, and (4) it is making restitution to Mr. Navalny.'

"The full effect of this new policy will likely not be realized for a few months, but it will certainly lead to more ammunition shortages, higher prices, and therefore fewer Americans excising their fundamental rights. It may also result in the shuttering of American small businesses that rely heavily on the importation of Russian ammunition. All of this is of course by design for the Biden Administration."

BANNED:



https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/amm...era-the-russian-ammo-ban-and-its-consequences

"Promises made, promises kept. Of the millions of first-time gun buyers last year, a sizeable amount of them helped to vote in the current administration and are now surprised that this aggressively anti-gun president is doing exactly as he said he would. Unable to attack the 2nd Amendment through legislation, he has decided to do so through sanctions against Russian ammo manufacturers. They were levied in response to the alleged poisoning of Alexei Navalny. This story is brought to you by the same mainstream media that lied for over four years about Russia’s involvement in the 2016 U.S. election as well as the “Kremlin is putting bounties on American soldiers” headline that was widely believed and subsequently debunked earlier this year. Whether you choose to believe that the poisoning of Navalny was a legitimate event or not, it is clear to all sides that the real purpose of these sanctions is to punish law-abiding American gun owners and not the Russian government."

 

Yeah...a friend of mine told me about that ban on Russian ammo....


Again...If we cannot be trusted with our guns and ammo...we will not be trusted with a vote....


Ishmaelites run wild..

My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

We have meda an awful mistake in allowing professional politicians to rule our nation. They seem to have no loylty to our nation, only loylty to their party. This isn't a problem of only one of our parties, it is a problem with our system. No person should be allowed to rule over people that they are not a part of.

Once a politician gains office they seem to forget the people that put them there. They then proceed to make laws and rules that they are somehow not subject to. They have a strict US versus them attitude and the THEM has become the American people and not our enemies. This was inevitable I guess. The idea that a mass of idiots, just because there are a lot of them, will somehow make smart decissions is fatally flawed.

This was NEVER the intentions of our founding fathers! There are states that actually put in and allow the vote in prisons!!! The REALITY IS that when you are put in prison your civil rights are all suspended right along with your right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

 

Got some shotgun ammo (birdshot / small-game loads) delivered to my house this morning. Got a decent price relative to some of the crazy pricing going on out there. This weekend, a local gunshop had a bunch of 9mm and .45 Auto coming in. Didn't need any of that. Only my small-game shotgun ammo was suffering a tad. Friends and family may come into need also. Some of my game loads dated back to the 1980s. Gotta use that up, first. Could do some skeet-blasting to stay in practice. I've never had old ammo to become much of an issue; 1950s .22 ammo will shoot just fine. British ammo with mercuric primers have problems when old -- seen that, had it happen to me.

Palmetto State Armory has ammo in stock. Not bad pricing ... considering the insane days in which we live.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/

https://palmettostatearmory.com/bulk-ammo.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo/handgun-ammo.html

So, it's hats off to the great state of South Carolina! Thanks, y'all!
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• Took a new lady Friend to Bass Pro to seek out some items in the Ladies Apparel section. They did not have what she wanted.
  
  In the mean time I went to the reloading section and found a bag of 50 new brass cases in .308 Winchester calibration and I picked them up.
  
  Also I picked up a box of .357 diameter cast copper plated bullets in 250 count from Berrys manufacturing....158 grain weight.
  
  Also picked up a box of 100 count Hornady A Max bullets Caliber 308 in 168 grain weight.
  
  These supplies will be put away.
  
  Their selection was not great but I could use these supplies and will be putting them away for future use.
  
  
  Oh...and they were expensive....the prices have noticeably gone up....noticeably. Paid cash...for these items.
  
  
  Did not see any powder or primers but these may have been behind the counter and I did not desire to wait..
  
  Planning a trip to my other source for reloading supplies across the river and soon..
  
  
  Also stopped by DeYongs Saddlery and picked up a long sleeve shirt for me and a Hooded Jersey pull over for the lady.
  
  I like DeYongs but they too can be a bit pricey.
  
  
  As for today and Now You Know The Rest of the Story.
  
  
  Ya LL take care now....!!
  
  
  Watcherchris
  Not an Ishmaelite

 

Reloaded some ammo today..


Today while working on my scooters out in my garage I decided to reload some 50 rounds of .308 into that recently purchased bag of new .308 brass from Bass Pro the other day.

I loaded them with these particular kind of deep penetration solid copper bullets.

.308 180gr-Copper Safari Solid (cuttingedgebullets.com)


I have a previous batch loaded into .308 cases and also another batch of 50 reloaded into 30.06 cases as they take the same bullet diameters .308.


Have the same set up in solid copper bullets reloaded into .357 pistol cases...and have reloaded several batches of these.


Have not tried them out to date but hope never to have to use them....

These bullets are expensive and will be purchasing another batch ...in .357 as well as .308.


Have also purchased a single box of 50 solid copper bullets for reloading into a 7.7mm WW2 Japanese Arisaka rifle....


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Here's a guy using your .308 copper flat-nose bullets fired out of a .300 Win Mag. Haven't found thirties out of a .308 Win, yet. This .300 Win Mag. only has a 20" nose on it, so its velocity takes a beating -- bore capacity to cartridge capacity = can't burn all of its powder. This still sends the copper bullets out at a good velocity, however. I'm still looking.



He bolted twenty 2"x 10" Douglas Fir boards together. Here's the penetration chart his testing revealed:



These copper bullets of course smoked other bullets as far as penetration went.

 

This site has ammo in stock.

https://www.ammobuy.com/

 

Wow Olde Geezer....

That is very interesting and telling information. My thanks for posting it. Very impressive.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Olde Geezer,

 

Went across the river and picked up some bullets for reloading.

Did not pick up any primers or powder as they had nothing but black powder substitutes.


One box of Hornady interlock bullets .308 caliber 150 grain 100 count.

One box.357 Caliber 125 grain Hornady XTP bullets 100 count

One box 41 Caliber .410 diameter 170 grain JHC 100 count.



Not exactly for what I was looking but selection was low and so I made do.

Will be putting these bullets away for a rainy day.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

Been watching the news and hearing the war drums beating ...and re beating again as in previous histories.

Someone is pushing for war ...big time...and I smell profits for someone out there again at the cost of someone else's finest blood.



In the back of my mind...I have been thinking that someone or something out there has been removing a lot of ammunition and reloading supplies both from the private marketplace.

The wide spreadedness of this fingerprint all across this land cannot be accidental. I have noted this in conversation with shooters and reloaders across this land and for some time now.


In the back of my mind there always was the question.....what is happening to all these resources which are not being used by the private sector of the economy....not available to the private sector??

These resources do not just disappear.....

They had to have been re routed somewhere and for some reason. And when you can get ammunition or reloading supplies they have gone up in price.


I am and have been thinking that these resources have for some time now been privily re routed to our government/military...

It is not desired nor prefer that these resources be made available to private Americans. This happened big time under the Obama Administration and now we see this coming back under the Biden Administration. Under Trump these resources were making a come back....now they are gone again.


With War drums beating ....I am thinking I now have my answer to a long held question.

Someone has been preparing for a war.....another war..........


Again...buckle up..seatbelts and shoulder harnesses.....seats in the upright and stowed position.

You members make up your own minds. I merely propose this as a possibility to what has been going on for some time now ..in ammo shortages and now also reloading supplies shortages. Reloading supplies is a big telltale to me.


You know....while I do not own one and have no ambition to own one...I am thinking with a huge question mark.......what is the current availability on the civilian market for reloaders who reload the .50 BMG rounds???? That should be very very telling if in big shortage!!!
The .50 BMG uses a very distinctive bullet, powder and primer....all pretty much exclusive to the .50BMG.
And it is a very big time sought after round in stopping fights among ground troops..
It puts an end to fighting rapidly by it's very brute power...


MY non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

I'm old and repeat my stories. I witness myself doing it.

Here's one of my sermons:

When watching movies made in the late 1930's, I can't help but think about the reality of those self-same people, less than five years away, being caught-up in WWII. Many of the folk you see as actors and the hoi polloi extras in the background will be killed long before their time.

I feel the exact same way now when I read the news. One looks at their grandchildren and thinks, "Oh sh## no!". One knows that hell is coming, that people have learned nothing from history and that they are going to end up repeating it. I'm now in some episode of the Twilight Zone smoking a cigarette with Rod Serling. And I am utterly unable to do anything to stop this train from running off the tracks ... again.

Another anger-inducing reality is that one speaks to the stupid zombie people about what is coming, what is inevitable, and they laugh and say, "We are more advanced now, so that can't happen." Were I a wiser person without any feelings whatsoever, I'd just sit back and watch them die, then flick my cigar ashes on their dead bodies. Trouble is that there are people I actually care about who are going to get caught up in the madness.

Won't be too long before I'll be watching history's flywheel of fate spin from some vantage point in the next world. I'll be much happier there than here. Maybe some Ancient Soul will enlighten me; however, one imagines that they too get fed-up with the idiot human race. Were I God, I'd have long ago put on my hat and coat and left the theater.


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"NSSF: More Than 5.4 Million First-Time Gun Buyers in 2021"

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...an-5-4-million-first-time-gun-buyers-in-2021/






"Moreover, nearly 45 percent of retailers reported seeing an increase in the number of black Americans purchasing firearms in 2021 vs. what they saw in 2020.

"The 2o21 increases in first-time gun purchases by women and black Americans in 2021 is important because it comes on the heels of 2020, when a similar phenomenon occurred. On August 4, 2020, Breitbart News reported NSSF numbers showing purchases by women and black Americans were up 58 percent from 2019.

"People belonging to other minorities, including Hispanics, Asian Americans, and American Indians, have bought guns at a greater rate than before as well.

"Retailers reported that 2021 saw a nearly 37 percent increase in gun sales to Hispanics, a 27 percent increase in gun sales to Asian Americans, and an 18 percent increase in sales to American Indians.

"On January 23, 2022, Breitbart News pointed to an article in The Economist which noted that the growing diversity of gun owners is “bad for gun control advocates.”

“'Gun ownership changes things,' Breitbart explained,' thus The Economist observed that people who own guns ‘are more politically active around gun issues than non-owners.'”

Old Geezer: People are totally fed-up with being targeted by violent felons. They are growing in awareness that the police are unable to protect them. This is super true in minority neighborhoods where law-abiding black citizens are disproportionally targeted by gangs. Poorer folk often do not have the money or resources to move out of these mega-high crime areas. They are often forced to stand and fight. Police and other emergency personnel are often prevented from entering these neighborhoods by gangs and gang-supporters. Ambulances take gunfire in such places. It's true in Los Angeles and it's true in Malmo.



https://newspunch.com/armed-black-grandmother-guns/

In 1992 Los Angeles, the Korean merchants found themselves unprotected by the police while swarms of looters were targeting their stores for theft and arson. These business owners and their families stepped up to the plate and protected their communities. Speaking as one person who happens to live far from there, I am very deeply proud of their actions. Were I there visiting, I'd give these folk a big hug ... and buy some of their products.

 

Theoretical: You've got a snub-nose .38 Special and/or you have an old .32 S&W Long revolver that your dearly departed Aunt Lucy left you in her will.



As we all know, the .38 snub-nose barrel doesn't get bullets up to a velocity that will cause a bullet to expand. Many folk load these pocket revolvers with lead full wadcutters. Let's face it, these wadcutter cartridges are loaded down, thus the "mid-range wadcutter" designation. Some newer snub-nosed revolvers are now built to handle +P loading, however the older revolvers will shoot loose / get destroyed using the +P ammo. One can go out and buy a .357 snubby and load +P .38s in it or the downloaded 110 grain .357 110-grain loads. Too, snubby revolvers are chambered in 9mm Auto these days. Need I say that the price of firearms has doubled. You'll pay $800 or well beyond for a .357 in today's market. Even stolen weapons are fetching high prices. Street gangs have to sell more dope to buy their illegal weapons these days.

For the .32 Long, all the ammo readily available is the standard round nose lead and the full wadcutter lead loaded to target velocity (600 ft / second on a good day).

What to do? If one reloads or has friends who reload, then you can load-up some gas-checked full wadcutters and load to maximum allowable pressures. In a snubby, you'd better use a fast-burning powder as used in 9mm loads (9mm loadings don't need a lot of barrel length at all). Or one can buy or cast wadcutters that are hard lead. The gas-checks and hard lead bullets are necessary if you don't want to lead the barrel. Too, hard wadcutters don't come apart nor deform as they cut through meat, arteries, and organs.

Standard round nose bullets and hollow points (that often fail to expand) pass through human tissue pushing internal tissues aside. Wadcutters CUT through tissues and break bones. Again, we're talking small weapons, not a .357 with a ≥ 4" barrel.



If you want to buy ammo that will do the deed, Buffalo Bore Ammunition is loading hard-cast full-wadcutter loads in .38 Special and in .32 Long. Whereas Buffalo Bore loads some pretty hot loads, these wadcutter loads are loaded to standard pressures. They use powders that get the most out of short barrels and smaller calibers, i.e. the .32 caliber without going HOT. For instance, in the .32, they are able to get velocities on a 100gr hard lead wadcutter out of a 2" barrel that get into the 800 ft./sec. world which is 200+ ft/sec higher than most "mid-range wadcutter" loads. With a 4" barrel, this .32 is spec.ed to head up into the 900ft/sec realm.

Short story is that these small revolvers with better ammunition become viable options for self defense against attacks from dogs or rabid felons. Light recoil with the .32 makes it a great option for those sensitive to recoil. A .32 loaded with effective ammunition beats the dickens out of a .22. I found videos that confirm the .32 vs .22 effectiveness. Even though I am a fan of the .22 magnum, the bullets are not heavy enough to drive through a bunch of meat and bone. Most men are over 170 lb __ 77 kg __ 12 stone. Add to this reality that most felons are used to getting into fights with other felons. Felons are large animals.

Even with superior ammunition, these smaller weapons must be fired into the attacker multiple times. Indeed, I tell women to dump their revolver's cylinder into an attacker, then beat him with the revolver if he doesn't go down. I know one story about a young man who took a .22 lr. round fired from a rifle straight into his heart. He kept on yelling at the crew in the drive-by car. Only after a couple of minutes did he finally fall, then die. This drive-by shooting was recorded on somebody's cell phone.

I just bought some ammo from Buffalo Bore. I thought I was going to have to mortgage this house to pay that ammo bill. What convinced me to shell-out that sort of money? The following video:

 

I like the 158 grain cast semi wadcutters in .357 Diameter for both .38 Speciaal.....and in particular for loading .357 Magnum....the copper clad semi wadcutters.

You don't have to load them super hot/fast per se.....as they naturally deliver serious energy by design.

Will be trying to locate more copper clad semi wadcutters in 158 grain....soon.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Need I say that Elmer Keith found the semi-wadcutters of great value?

You mention that yours are copper clad. Excellent! I hope you cast them in a hard alloy.

The 158 grain is the way to go! Hunting giant hogs?, well then, load a few with heavier bullets and keep a Speed-Loader in your pocket loaded with these heavier loads should you run into some genetic freak swine. It happens!

Smart fellow, you.

The .357 is a performer ... and not just for self-defense. Eastern white-tailed dear need no monster caliber to bring them down. While living in the Midwest a few years, I worked with a young man (sand-pit war veteran) who put venison on the table for his family of four with a .45 automatic; he fired from a tree stand.

Going with calibers and loadings that are sufficient to the task -- and not overkill -- saves monstrous amounts of money out at the range. This one fellow a saw on the web used home-cast wadcutters for his .32 revolver (target shooting). He said that he could get 1,000 rnds out of only one (1.0 lb.) of powder. Think about it, isn't the .32 revolver also a game getter?! Plus, the report is not loud; subsonic, don't'cha'know. Me, I know this to be absolutely true. My beloved paternal grandfather sure did put a bunch of rabbit on the supper table with his .32 S&W Long. He made deliveries -- after sunset & before sunrise -- using his own car. He always had a spotlight on his cars -- I remember his 1949 Oldsmobile. I have his last .32 (before this one, he had a 32-20; maybe the cops took it after he shot a guy with it; he was not charged, the would-be robber got what was coming to him) and I've shot it using wadcutters. Turned out to be a jaw-dropping accurate revolver; thus, a food gatherer. Recently I bought a perfectly good .32 revolver for $230. I did this so I'd not be shooting Pap's revolver (I keep Pap's revolver as only a cherished remembrance, not a shooter; it was manufactured in 1906; Pap entered this plane of travails in 1894; Pap was a real man; he taught me more than I could ever count).

Overkill is stupid and wasteful ... add LOUD. We preppers know to never be wasteful. Mindset is everything. The professional physicists now say that Will is the progenitor if all that is -- when one perceives energy, it turns into what we call "matter". Our having free will is a gift and simultaneously a horrid challenge. We must act with wisdom.
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Personally, I'm seeing ammunition coming back into availability.

.357 ammo was gone off the shelves for the longest time. It's coming back. Bought some range-blasting FMJ stuff for my lever "western rifle" (nostalgia central). Also got some target / standard-velocity .22 LR at only $6/boxrd of 50 rnds each. Oh, I also bought some 20 ga birdshot which I'd not been seeing. Gave away some old boxes of birdshot ammo (I noted that I'd only paid $3.50 per box 30 years ago). We need to think about doing some skeet shooting for practice and buying new for storage as prices come down. Birdshot will be vital in gathering game after a SHTF situation. Humans only need a small amount of complete proteins per day (i.e. meat; our bodies can't make all proteins, we're not herbivores).

If one has some dollars to convert into real things, then one might look into ammo. Gotta stay in practice. Food prices have gone bat-sh## crazy. Glad I've been putting back canned goods. Have y'all seen egg prices! I loathe chickens = don't think I'll be raising any of those nasty birds anytime soon. I know folk who have.
.

 

I reload a lot of .38 Special and also .357 Magnum. I verily like both calibrations. Have accumulated plenty of brass for both calibers.

While I verily like the .45 ACP....for some reason I have never been keen on the 9mm Parabellum.

However.......I am very well aware that today....9mm Parabellum is everywhere.

I am encouraged by some companies making wheel guns with a separate wheel chambered for 9mm Parabellum and in like manner to my .45ACP revolver....made to seat on the case mouth with rounds in a star shell holder.

Thus giving further versatility to a single revolver frame.



Oh....don't know if you've seen this but I caught this in the news today.

Here we go...step by step...by step...

Morrissey introduces bill to ban public carry of high-capacity rifles in Virginia (msn.com)


I am thinking that we are headed in this country to become like Trudeau in Canada......and this will only affect law abiding citizens....and eventually ...like Canadians and or Englishmen....our rights turned into privileges....granted by the Sovereign....



We clearly cannot be trusted with our opinions and or views and this is becoming more and more clear...daily with information about these sites like Twitter....Google and others...acting /censoring on behalf of certain government alphabet agencies.


We cannot be trusted with our children and or grandchildren ....but government can teach them institutional, government authorized racism ...in CRT...and other such programs..


We cannot be trusted with our monies....over $600.00

We cannot be trusted to be armed....and this is becoming more and more clear...to thinking people while our own government arms people and nations as the biggest arms dealer in the world.

And not just armed physically...but mentally and spiritually as well.

I am thinking that someone hidden and concealed in the background is waiting for an opportunity to bring about a Climate Change Emergency and Justifying another lockdown based on this new emergency.


Been thinkiing that this government is going to manufacture one emergency after another after another ad infinitum in order to increase their power and control over the herd and thus cut off our liberties and freedoms.

I am also thinking that Climate Change is designed/manufactured to kill off Capitalism....and usher in Socialism /Marxism....under these new emergencies/Crisis.

Government going to "Absolute Power/Divine Right of Kings" under the Climate Change Religion.


Don't worry....this list will become a larger and larger pattern...as government requires more and more control over the herd..

Crisis/Emergencies forever....



Ishmaelites run wild...


My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

The 9mm is a medium caliber that is make-do. Speer Gold Dot 124 gr 9mm results in highest velocities in carbines. And for some reason (?) the 124 grain bullet is the "sweet spot" for max velocity in 9mm carbines -- NOT the heavy bullets. A 124 gr bullet traveling at 1420 fps out of a carbine has 550 ft.lbs of energy, i.e. getting up there with the .357 out of a handgun. That bullet will expand massively or break up -- either way, that will result in massive tissue damage.



Here's a fellow testing the Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P at the range. He chronographs the rounds fired from both handguns and carbine. His carbine results match-up with the above table. This bullet from his carbine had 16" of penetration in gel. Some fragmentation was observed, but the bullet held together with massive deformation and expansion. Nasty wound cavity.

Oh, by the by, this isn't any commercial for Speer Ammo. I'm an old retired guy = got no horse in this race.

 

I think ...like many leftist states ...someone in our Virginia "Feel Good" government is going to try to institute a feel good high capacity magazine ban...which will include 9mm carbines as well as handguns.

I am an Olde wheel gun fellow...for some reason. Also like lever rifles as well as bolt actions for accuracy.

Reloading and black powder...taught me to try learning to shoot accurately ...not shoot a lot.

Also....with the price of ammo.....shooting accurately makes sense.


I verily like my lever rifles in .357 Mag as well as in .41 Mag.


However.....I have obtained something I am considering putting into a case with ammo....and into the back of my truck...now that I managed to get it inspected and back on the road.

And that is a 20 gauge single shot shotgun with a .357 Magnum rifle barrel on top.

Savage Arms Model 24V Series D .357 Mag/20 Gauge 3″ MOD 24″ Combination Gun | Lock, Stock & Barrel (lsbauctions.com)


In the back of my car I keep one similar with a 20 gauge shotgun with a .22 long rifle on the top barrel.

Savage 24S-D. 22LR & 20 Gauge. Combination Over/Under. Good Condition (gunsinternational.com)

These combination guns are made by Stevens...and just make simple reliable sense to me.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

That .357 choice is a very good one. The .357 really comes into its own out of a rifle barrel. If you ever wanted to shoot smaller game with the .357 barrel, you could fire .38 Long ammo in it. That has even less power than the .38 Special. Such a low velocity round wouldn't blow little critters apart, thus they are edible. I once shot a rabbit (it was getting into my garden) with a .22 magnum rifle. That .22 mag hollow-point turned the rabbit inside out = inedible.

The .38 Long and .38 S&W Short are subsonic = very little noise out of a rifle.

 

More ammunition chamberings are finding their way back onto outdoor stores and gun shops. Traveled to a gun show this weekend. Picked up some bargains. Got some quality .357 ammo -- loaded in America; high velocity. This has been almost unavailable for a while now. Got some good pricing on 9mm JHP; but, shame on me, it was produced in Serbia. Serbia is not any sort of friendly nation. Got some target .38 special ammo -- American. Didn't buy in bulk. Only got a few hundred rounds. But bulk pricing was readily available. Crates and ammo cans were offered -- 500 rnd.s / 1,000 rnd.s. This in rifle and handgun chamberings. If one wished to buy mass quantities of military ammo, no problem. Seeing .45 Auto, .40 S&W, .45 Long Colt coming back.

Were I having to supply a company of combat infantry with ammunition, had the money to buy it, and the young backs, dollies, and big truck to haul it all, then I could have done so. I saw more ancient/obsolete military rifles (bolt actions), hunting rifles, and collector rifles than I saw "assault rifles".

There were a tremendous number of handguns for sale; however, I didn't see many people at all filling-out the Federal paperwork on them. I think a lot of the boom in handguns sales has passed. Biden getting elected sent-out that tsunami of handgun-buying and now that has settled-out.

The pricing on standard rifles was absolutely crazy. Didn't look at any "assault rifles". Just looked at hunting and historic/collector rifles. Battle-worn old Brit Lee-Enfields were going for over $600; the semi-decent ones were going for $800. Totally crazy pricing. My near-museum quality Enfields would fetch over a thousand bucks each; probably $1,200 to $1,500. I didn't even look at handguns.

Sometimes one sees straw-dog lookers. They are on their phones all the time. They are contacting their gang contacts. Didn't see them there. Were I BATF, I would be all over these greasy pukes. I'd like to break their spines, crush their skulls. Gangs should be utterly wiped-out / annihilated from the planet. I loathe them with every fiber of my being. This is why I am such a mondo advocate for gun safes. I don't want to see this genetic trash stealing weaponry from good citizens / humans.

Got a handgun on me. There's a rifle right behind me and shotgun nearby. My other toys and candy? All that is locked-up in gun safes. When we leave our home, what I have on me now and the other toys go straight into the safe. Burglars haven't the time to break into safes. If burglars show up, my alarm systems will be calling the police. And my 70 lb. dog will be going ape-sh## on them. Oh, my dog does bite. The other day, I was trying to trim this dog's toenails, but I hurt it; it then tore into my left ear. We've had issues, but now I'm back petting it. I want it to be unfriendly, fangs and all that. My wife is the animal's loved one. Not me. You get what you pay for. Too, the animal doesn't realize that it could kill me. Good.
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Here's an online search site to find ammunition dealers (best prices, all that). Make note on their listings (in rows) that there's a column which describes shipping costs. It's a tiny icon, but find it because it is important. So, one might find a best price, then look over to the shipping cost icon -- it might indicate a low rating which likely means high shipping costs. Some dealers will ship free if you buy in high quantities. Note that ammo dealers may sell to individuals, but these folk also may cut deals ("jobber" prices) for gun stores. You could benefit from such dealers in that they are used to shipping in quantity and thus get better shipping prices.

https://ammoseek.com/

-------------------------------------

Using the above search site, I found this dealer: Freedom Munitions

I liked the prices here, plus this is an American company located in Idaho. But remember that this is just one dealer on the AmmoSeek listings. I have NOT gone through all of the dealers looking for American companies and lowest prices. That would take a good long while. I simply lucked-up in rapidly finding the following ammo dealer whose prices met my criteria AND whose ammo brands for sale included their own brand made in their own factory. One sure doesn't always find that, no-sir.

"All of our ammunition is manufactured in-house at our factory in Idaho and we have a team of experienced customer service representatives ready to assist you." -- Freedom Munitions

Freedom Munitions lets you search their products by "In Stock". It's so frustrating to go to a dealer site, look up the ammo they list only to find that they're sold out of it. Under "ammunition type", one can select New or Remanufactured.
In addition to Freedom Brands (several categories of their own ammo), this place also sells other company's ammo such as Remington, Win, Fiocchi, ..., on and on (look under "Manufacturers" folder near top of page). To see their own brands look under "Freedom" folder near the top of the home page. Their site is large, so do a lot of exploration before ordering -- you might find some other category / type of bullets / type of cases, or whatever, that better suits your need. They even sell steel cased ammo.

They have two categories of hollow-point bullets they load. One is a standard hollow point and their other offering they call, X-Def. The latter is a more premium bullet according to them.

https://www.freedommunitions.com/

 

With the above post, I forgot to include the following graphic:

 

Took a trip across the river today with my lady friend and found some gunpowder and also bought bullets for reloading.

To my surprise the variety was bigger than in previous trips but not all the powder types for which I was looking.

I bought three one pound cans of powder..

IMR 3031

and two cans of

IMR 4227


Also I bought a box of Sierra .410 diameter bullets of 170 grain HP...for a .41 Magnum reloding...

A box of 158 grain .357 bullets...HP Hornady brand..

And two bags of .224 full metal Jacket at 65 grain weight.


Prices were expensive but I paid cash and will be putting this gear away for future use.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

What I had been looking for and not finding was

IMR 4350 powder

and

IMR 4320 powder


Also the owner of that shop told me that much of our American Ammo production has been going to the Ukraine.


That Squares away with what I have been picking up from non MSM sources.

That much of the resources which go into ammo manufacturing has been quietly transferred to government ammo plants..


These plants have been manufacturing ammo in Russian Calibers as well as NATO calibers. Ammunition for Artillery propellants as well.

I have also been hearing that our government has allotted monies to upgrade our military ammo production plants....


Put another way..these raw materials are not going to commercial plants....in quantities for commercial ammo and thus reflected in the prices we are paying for what ammo is available.

Some of you members may know more about the prices on the shelves as I buy mostly materials for reloading my own and seldom buy store bought ammo.

But what reloading supplies I can find are expensive.

However..I do not reload shotgun shells and the last two boxes of shotgun shells I bought were expensive.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

One visiting grandson and I went out to one of the local outdoor shops / gun shops today. I wanted to get some sub-sonic .22 LR ammo. This place had plenty. Bought CCI "Quiet-22 LR" ammo. Spec.ed at 710 fps. This as tested by others is sufficiently adequate accuracy-wise and hunting-wise to put rabbit and squirrel into the stew pot. This ammo shoots as quietly as an air rifle. Too, you don't have to worry about sending a round downrange to be a danger = not enough energy. Grandson's dad (son'in'law, our daughter died, boy lives with his dad) has acreage to include wooded acreage (great view of one LARGE lake; good fishing).

Gimme a break, it doesn't take much to kill squirrel and rabbit. My pap DID however use #4 or #5 to kill squirrel. Most would say that this was "overkill". OK, so what! We were hunting for food!!! I've NEVER "sport hunted". One kills for food -- end of discussion.

From personal experience, a .22 LR standard velocity ammo or 20 ga ammo will put food on the table. Why overkill?!!! Stupid. All you do is destroy edible meat. Too much shot and you'll be biting into lead when you eat the game you've killed. Number 4 and number 5 shot = less pellets = sure kill = lower the probability you'll bight into lead pellets at supper-time. This statement of mine is borne of personal experience. Doesn't matter for gravy, but it sure does when biting into meat.
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Went to a store across the river wherein I often get my reloading supplies.

Last week I bought a can with about 150 rounds of new Starline brass in .41 Magnum...as I knew this calibration is not often found in most stores.

And today I also went back and bought the rest of his .41 magnum Starline Brass...in .41 Magnum. This makes about 650 brass cases for reloading at my pleasure and need.

This calibration is not often found...as are others...and I have it in both pistol and rifle.

Agree....with Olde Geezer......such calibrations often come into their own in a rifle...both .357 mag .....41 mag as well as .44 Mag.



Also today I purchased three new sets of jeweler's screwdrivers...as my current sets are showing some age and wear.
Don't use them all that often but when I need them they verily get the job done.
One will go with me to my toolbox at work...and the other two remain here at home near this computer.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

What do you need to shoot through?

 

What do you need to shoot through? Post 2