Fear Of Preppers

Pragmatist · Dec 2, 2019

Good morning Dale,

My view from experience is around 5% to 15% of responders - National Guard, Emergency Responders, LEO will arrive to augment the armories, Emergency Operations Centers, the police stations - and the related eg Volunteer Fire and Rescue stations. Again: I've worked with an initial, at best, 5-15%.

This 5-15% had working plans for family/kids. These plans worked. I am fully aware that the 95% - 85% numbers mean danger zones. Can this be rectified ? I can't place everything I've seen or learned about in after-action meetings here on the web.

There is a current big push to have emergency evacuation centers open pre-emergency for family members. I have negative views on this but my view is limited.

Do recall why I've mentioned a couple of times planning views involving " Jinassaries ". A modern member of an expeditionary force or emergency responder unit really cannot have a family. I've held off writing this so bluntly. The Israeli and Chinese models are being studied.

Currently, there are some limited opportunities for safe-haven work assignments for family members of some military, emergency responders, ... rest of our small community. It's fully known and understood to be limited. This has less to do with Federal government efforts and more so with our new population demographics.

You said it: "senior NCO's and officers dependents..."

True: "when the trucks stop delivering food,fuel,goods..."

Dale, so far, Middle America's small middle class of those keeping the place together HAVE RESPONDED AND KEPT THE CHAIN OF COMMAND semi-intact. I envision, based on experience and the pulse of the middle class knowledgeable public that matters will be resolved by action to maintain the governmental functions as best and realistic as possible. It will be messy but withing a COG chain of command.

Do we see a change in the family arrangement ? If we look at the recent history, we see the change. If the family members do not modernize - such as becoming preppers, have a small group for child care during emergencies, teaching all this to the kids, ...

Many sacrifices to old arrangements occurring now. Many pending.

A pandemic or a war will surely expedite the adjustments.

My family is all "prep-qualified" and well-rehearsed - and used - arrangements for split-ups. Others also have these arrangements. I am only discussing 5% to 15% of our national population.

All the rest is unknown.

TMT Tactical · Dec 2, 2019

Good Morning Pragmatist,

Responding to this quote" There is a current big push to have emergency evacuation centers open pre-emergency for family members. I have negative views on this but my view is limited."

This is part of the flaw --- An EMP would not provide any warning or time to open any emergency evacuation centers or any other type of emergency shelters. All communication with the civilian population would be lost. The population will be like the three blind mice, blind deaf and dumb. They will not know what happen, what to do about what happen and dumb-ed down about how to cope for themselves. People trapped on base will be worried about their dependents trapped off base. They will not have any method to communicate with dependents, which leaves only one method, go and assist their families. Emergency member trapped off base will not have any viable transportation methods to return to base, even if they wanted. Now if it is a CME, there will be some warning time but most of it will be wasted debating the magnitude of the event and the proper response. Too long for it to really help the COG.

As pointed out by Dale, resupply will be limited or non-existent. There will be a critical shortage of manpower. As per Mr.Murphy's law, anything that could go wrong, will go wrong. Unfortunately, in the event of a national grid down, the things that go wrong will have dramatic effects on any possibility of a COG. I think in all reality, the remaining functioning military will be re-routed to a central point within the continental USA and the vast majority of the nation will be left to fend for itself. The government might technically exist, but for the majority of the Americans, it will have expired, along with the electricity.

Pragmatist · Dec 2, 2019

Good morning TMT,

There would be a warning time re EMP. An EMP means international confrontation and some people are quietly opening up key emergency facilities to include shelters. It is not a flaw. A national "grid down" or, for that matter, a national nuclear confrontation, less the Cuban Missile Crisis, has not been experienced. All areas of the nation are not deemed critical.

5% - 15% of the national population are prepared and ready as of today. For 85% not being prepared and not knowing what to do has little with the with the Federal government. Virginia teaches some of this but cannot force learning and preparedness. The Feds and Virginia do attend to the needs of the disabled children, some hospitalized patients (evac plans are still in prep and being worked on-difficult with our current population demographics) and a couple of other categories.

For 80 plus of our national population, not knowing what to do, has little to do with the Federal government. Our TexDanm said to participate in politics. I attend the emergency planning meetings, local, regional, state and Federal and they are typically empty (less contractors) of people. This is the situation throughout the nation.

Any "trapped" on bases will not be able to leave - no transportation nor authority to leave. Enhanced enforcement present.

I agree: a critical shortage of manpower, much will go wrong.

The military is already decentralized and with hardened facilities-some off-grid. Navy Norfolk is prepared and the Palace Guard Quantico is prepared. The Gulf Coast LOOP to Houston is better prepared than Ft Knox.

A majority of Americans CAN prepare ... the resources are present but declined ... those disabled living alone must relocate to places that can care for them, those with medical needs eg O2 must relocate to group settings for 24/7 support and economies of scale savings - O2 replenishment is costly (and mostly publicly funded),... In Virginia, we've already started the integration of disabled children into our emergency programs. We have other programs - still small because of the lack of personnel - but they are present.

Much of our nation is one big welfare check supporting housing, cooling in summer for the needy (I walked out of a meeting when hearing a testimonial about this - Madam and I ration electric use), food, entertainment, and etc.

Soon, review "Social Darwinism".

The party's over.

TMT Tactical · Dec 2, 2019

Afternoon Pragmatist.

I do agree during a national grid down, "Social Darwinism", "Financial Darwinism" and "Medical Darwinism" will immediately go in to effect. Yes the public could be prepared but a little over half of these idiots voted for Hillary, so you can tell they are not grounded in reality. In a grid down event, it will not be a "Government of the People, for the people and by the people". It will be a select few to be protected by a select few. To me that is not a government but just a Warlord fiefdom. Even that plan may fail due to not protecting the families and dependents. I think your 5 to 15 percent responding is going to be way too high. The plans do not take full account of human nature, human frailties and the full effect of Mr. Murphy and his effect on the plan. A hardened site surrounded by a few million starving , angry folks is just a target, not an invincible fortress. What guard is not going to open the front gate, when the mob parades his family out front and center? Many of these service personnel have neighbors and those neighbors will not hesitate to take the families hostage to gain access to the perceived food and fuel supplies, located withing the hardened sites. The plan fails because it the people in charge do not provide the same level of protection to the troops and the families of the troops. In a national grid down, money has no value, promotion has no value, career advancement has no value, patriotism will have very limited value as there is no enemy to fight. The motivation will be to survive and the survival of family.

Now "Emergency Evac Center" is that a P.C. (Politically Correct) way of describing FEMA Refugee Camps? Any Emergency Evac Center not situated inside a military post, would be over run is the first few days. Even Police stations will become prime targets for their weapon caches. Military bases are not designed to be self sufficient for the long term. Personnel on bases will become trapped hostages and will need supplies that will have to pass through or over armed civilians. It does not take a rocket scientist or even a military genus to understand any U.S, base can be over run by the local population. The base personnel are confined, the civilians have all the surrounding resources to use in an attack. I am sure that a few (very few, due to logistics) bases will be held, after the military has been consolidated but even that is in doubt. I can see some military bases siding with the population and forming a new militia and eventually challenging the politicians that abandoned them. Bottom line, I think 98% of the American population will be left to fend for themselves.

Sourdough · Dec 2, 2019

What I find interesting is that the very top of the most knowledgeable preppers, choose.......of their own free will to disregard what they know in their heart and mind is a more prudent course of action. Including many on this elite prepping forum.

They all have wonderful justifications.

Pragmatist · Dec 3, 2019

Good morning TMT,

I only scribble what I participated in (eg 5-15% rate) over the years and my personal, limited involvement in certain categories of events eg riot control, oil embargoes, base (and corporate) lock-downs.

Much beyond my rambling is conjecture. Who knows what epidemic disease levels will do ? Won't even discuss a pandemic. I've been separated from my family during my career's projects and always accepted dire consequences occurring. I grew up in this environment.

Only accurate GUESSES can be presented as to what might or could happen.

What's the difference between a Federal form of government on the charts and a warlord fiefdom on the charts ?

An assembly of "a few million" is not realistic. Mobility means walking / hiking. Personal health and nourishment preclude large assemblies. Again, recall that under discussion involves water, food, medical matters. Family structures dissolved prior to this. The WWII stories were true.

Government - and Corporate - security personnel are one of the strong aspects of emergency operations.

I cannot envision any mob successfully obtaining the arsenals of law enforcement agencies.

Some military - and corporate - bases / facilities ARE self-sufficient for long terms.

I do recommend you review "...the civilians have all the surrounding resources to use in an attack."

TMT Tactical · Dec 3, 2019

Good Afternoon Pragmatist.

Good points. Now to address some of them.. Without any normal means of communications, a mob could be raised with just the use of a megaphone. Walking through neighborhoods and announcing your group was headed to get food and fuel, will attract followers. As the word is spread from person to person, that there is food and fuel to be had, the starving will follow, like the sheep they are. As for police station, who is going to stop the gangs and their followers from capturing the stations. Not likely many cops will be on duty at the station, during a national grid down. Resources to attack a corporate and government structure. Armored cars come to mind, they don't have to be driven, they can be pushed. Makes real good shooting platforms. Fire can be launched from great distances. Look at the Cartels and the weapons they have and have used. The starving masses will always find leaders. All the resources surrounding military bases can be brought to bear. Also I did not see any reply regarding military troops opening fire on women and children to prevent them from getting food.

As for the Government and Warlord fiefdoms, I see no difference once they have abandoned the people. As far as I am concerned, they lost all legal and more importantly, moral standing by leaving the country to fend for themselves. Now can the government protect all the people, absolutely not. But the prime job of the government is to do exactly that, protect all the people. Can the government greatly reduce the damage, absolutely but they have not and will not do what it takes. So when it does hit the fan, they just become local Warlords, hiding at their hardened sites. The COG is based on past events and has a limited chance of success. There is no loyalty to any corporation and when the fiat money is worthless, the only value the corporation has to the employees, is food or fuel. Those items will simply be taken by those that know of it's location. When the grid goes down for the final count, it will become "Every man, women and child" for themselves. Past employment loyalty (ended as soon as the power went off) and Oaths (ended when the government abandoned the citizens) will mean nothing. Survival and survival of the family will be all that counts.

Sourdough · Dec 3, 2019

I would like to suggest that anyone interested in this thread would profit from reading this link that "Pragmatist" posted in another thread.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2019/12/03/550039.htm

Dalewick · Dec 3, 2019

TMT Tactical said: ↑

Good Afternoon Pragmatist.

Good points. Now to address some of them.. Without any normal means of communications, a mob could be raised with just the use of a megaphone. Walking through neighborhoods and announcing your group was headed to get food and fuel, will attract followers. As the word is spread from person to person, that there is food and fuel to be had, the starving will follow, like the sheep they are. As for police station, who is going to stop the gangs and their followers from capturing the stations. Not likely many cops will be on duty at the station, during a national grid down. Resources to attack a corporate and government structure. Armored cars come to mind, they don't have to be driven, they can be pushed. Makes real good shooting platforms. Fire can be launched from great distances. Look at the Cartels and the weapons they have and have used. The starving masses will always find leaders. All the resources surrounding military bases can be brought to bear. Also I did not see any reply regarding military troops opening fire on women and children to prevent them from getting food.

As for the Government and Warlord fiefdoms, I see no difference once they have abandoned the people. As far as I am concerned, they lost all legal and more importantly, moral standing by leaving the country to fend for themselves. Now can the government protect all the people, absolutely not. But the prime job of the government is to do exactly that, protect all the people. Can the government greatly reduce the damage, absolutely but they have not and will not do what it takes. So when it does hit the fan, they just become local Warlords, hiding at their hardened sites. The COG is based on past events and has a limited chance of success. There is no loyalty to any corporation and when the fiat money is worthless, the only value the corporation has to the employees, is food or fuel. Those items will simply be taken by those that know of it's location. When the grid goes down for the final count, it will become "Every man, women and child" for themselves. Past employment loyalty (ended as soon as the power went off) and Oaths (ended when the government abandoned the citizens) will mean nothing. Survival and survival of the family will be all that counts.
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TMT, Fortunately I don't see many scenarios that could effect the nation as a whole. A big one that has been mentioned "Grid down" on a national level could have one of two effects. If it's a natural EMP that hits the planet I see things progressing as described in the above post. If though, the cause is a thermonuclear war, and America is attacked. Things may well go very different. American's are the most hard headed, determined and vengeful people when attacked that the world has ever seen. Life here at home would be bad. Very bad. But American's are willing to sacrifice if it helps kill our enemies. Were just that way.

The scenarios I actually dread are a pandemic, Yellowstone super eruption or a major meteorite strike. To me, everything else is survivable if your prepared and have your mind right.

Dale

TMT Tactical · Dec 3, 2019

@Dalewick

Anything short of a National Grid down and the government can and will survive. Pandemic will be bad but Americans can and will pull together. Even with a meteorite or Yellowstone event and many if not most of America will survive and again pull together. Americans are the most fearsome people on earth but also the most determined. The national grid down event is where the government loses all control and the people are left to fend or themselves. I think the rural communities will survive and eventually recover. The cities and big population centers will collapse and become salvage sites. Federal and state governments will be past memories. Local military that did not turn on the citizens will help form the new local governments. National governments will be centuries away from forming again. A new and better constitution will be written and life will go on. JM2C

Sourdough · Dec 3, 2019

TMT Tactical said: ↑

where the government loses all control and the people are left to fend or themselves.
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America would be captured.......and likely welcome it.

TMT Tactical · Dec 4, 2019

Sourdough said: ↑

America would be captured.......and likely welcome it.
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I don't think so, the invaders would be seen as a new food source (the supplies they would bring -- not cannibalism). They would make very easy targets. We as the most powerful military in the world could not beat the North Vietnamese. Russia could not beat the Afghans and America is much better armed as a nation than either of those countries. American just set a new record for gun purchase background checks. Thanks to the Democrats and their anti-gun laws,we are better armed then ever before. There is little advantage to invading a country if you also have to feed the current inhabitants.

Pragmatist · Dec 4, 2019

Good morning TMT,

We are using 2 different "visuals" of the socio-economic-political landscape during and after an EMP.

Immediately pre and during and immediately after an EMP, national authorities staff the critical infrastructure and certain other infrastructure not national-critical. This staff is partly drained away from non-critical functional/geographic areas. Most already in place. These people are prepared to include psychologically prepared. Other areas of the nation could experience being "written off". There will be public service announcements (PSA) for mandatory evacuations.

Only certain roads receive maintenance and support (removing wrecked vehicles, removing the dead, stopping truck HAZMAT fires. In practical terms, the road(s) is no longer a conduit for transport even for walking. Dead bodies and disease must be avoided. What dogs and bats would not be rabid ?

Post EMP, urban and suburban fires in designated areas will not be responded to. Airports, with no flight operations, become Responder staging areas. Dialysis clinics,dental offices, optical shops, local pharmacy stores are closed down and their skilled staffers - most on the Fed/state registries (forgot name of document) will be re-assigned if not holding other emergency medical support services.

Key police stations, to include the Federal ones - many here - are already fortified and prepared. On notice, the auxiliaries get activated. There are many, relative to the need.

Had already mentioned I don't reply to some subject-matter material.

TMT, ... You personally cannot make determinations on "abandonment", "legal standing", "moral standing", "the success rate of COG", "loyalty". So far...past and current tense...the situations were/are accepted in the basics.

My biggest fear is epidemics / pandemic. I view our nation's biggest weakness as mass medical care. The sick infect those nearby. They won't be walking around looking for food and water. Very few private citizens have PPE, ,,, not even work gloves. Missed dialysis, dental pain, changed optic pressure, fell off roof still holding tarp, severe burns - saw all this.

The nation can handle an EMP but not support to a population with more wide screen televisions than food supplies, nice late model cars but no warm socks and sturdy boots, no concern outside of themselves like those living on Ocracoke Island, next to Cape Hatteras, North Carolina.

When personal health care consists of a pack of spicy V-8 juices in the morning after a drunken stupor sleep, the public sector cannot redeem this segment of the population nor are the funds available to do so.

The party's over.

lonewolf · Dec 4, 2019

I think that's the whole point(pragmatist's remark about EMP and people having more wide screen tv's than food), when I grew up there was a certain amount of being responsible for one's own needs, nowadays it seems to be (at least for many) that this is no longer the case and its someone's else's job, they can always go to the food bank never mind putting food back in the good times.
as for government help, in the UK even a minor event relegated to just one small location in one part of our nation always seems to be an afterthought, a touch of "too little too late", the problem at least in the UK is that most resources are underfunded and put out to tender which means the lowest price usually wins and therefore the quality of the service is also low, as for medical help it is well known that we do not have enough nurses in our hospitals, there are a lot of unfilled vacancies but an increasing workload, I don't think may girls(and boys) want to be nurses any more, it dosent have the glamour or the fame they require.

TMT Tactical · Dec 4, 2019

Afternoon Pragmatist
My responses will be in dark blue and bold, for ease of reading. Click on quoted post to see full response.

Pragmatist said: ↑

Good morning TMT,

We are using 2 different "visuals" of the socio-economic-political landscape during and after an EMP.

Immediately pre and during and immediately after an EMP, national authorities staff the critical infrastructure and certain other infrastructure not national-critical. This staff is partly drained away from non-critical functional/geographic areas. Most already in place. These people are prepared to include psychologically prepared. Other areas of the nation could experience being "written off". There will be public service announcements (PSA) for mandatory evacuations.

How will the staff be contacted (no cell or phone service)? How will the staff be transported (vehicles may not operate and the roads will most likely be too dangerous and / or blocked)?

Only certain roads receive maintenance and support (removing wrecked vehicles, removing the dead, stopping truck HAZMAT fires. In practical terms, the road(s) is no longer a conduit for transport even for walking. Dead bodies and disease must be avoided. What dogs and bats would not be rabid ?

How and whom will clear the roads? What equipment will be operational? There is no verified proof that any of the vehicles will be operational after an EMP? Remember Mr. Murphy loves to toss monkey wrenches into unproven theories. Even our Abram's tanks are chock full electronics and my not be operational. Then lets look at our air fleet, again full of electronics. Assuming that any group will be mobile is what Mr. Murhpy loves. Yes disease will be a huge problem and I seriously doubt the government will be able or willing to address it on a national level,

Post EMP, urban and suburban fires in designated areas will not be responded to. Airports, with no flight operations, become Responder staging areas. Dialysis clinics,dental offices, optical shops, local pharmacy stores are closed down and their skilled staffers - most on the Fed/state registries (forgot name of document) will be re-assigned if not holding other emergency medical support services.

We do agree on this point. Post EMP fires will burn uncontrolled. All air ports will be next to useless as none of the communications will be operable. No radar, flight control, and probably no personnel to man them. Who will report to these "Responder" staging area's? Who will contact these skilled personnel to reassign them and how will they contact these skilled staffers, and last but certainly not least, how will these skilled personnel be transported? Just because there is a list does not provide the means to contact, assign and transport the needed personnel.

Key police stations, to include the Federal ones - many here - are already fortified and prepared. On notice, the auxiliaries get activated. There are many, relative to the need.

Again there is the assumption these stations will be manned and that the personnel do not abandon their posts to go and protect their families. How are the auxiliaries going to get "Activated" and how are they going to be transported to these stations?

Had already mentioned I don't reply to some subject-matter material.

TMT, ... You personally cannot make determinations on "abandonment", "legal standing", "moral standing", "the success rate of COG", "loyalty". So far...past and current tense...the situations were/are accepted in the basics.

During a national grid down event, Each individual person will be the only one that can determine the legal status of a government. Government is a fictional critter and only exists at the pleasure of the people. When the government has failed to fulfill their main object for existence (protecting the people) then every citizen has the right and moral duty to decide of they should continue to support the government. Without any rule of law, the government has no legal standing, only by force of arms can it even exist. Example: If any government agents show up at my door demanding I surrender all my supplies, then I will make the determination if they are going to be allowed to confiscate my supplies, not some past legal standing.

My biggest fear is epidemics / pandemic. I view our nation's biggest weakness as mass medical care. The sick infect those nearby. They won't be walking around looking for food and water. Very few private citizens have PPE, ,,, not even work gloves. Missed dialysis, dental pain, changed optic pressure, fell off roof still holding tarp, severe burns - saw all this.

Again I agree, medical services will crumble. Disease will run rampant, as you pointed out, very few have PPE. How the citizens respond (not the government) to perceived illness will have a lot to do with how the epidemic / pandemics are handled. Watch movie "The Colony" and how this group handled sick members.

The nation can handle an EMP but not support to a population with more wide screen televisions than food supplies, nice late model cars but no warm socks and sturdy boots, no concern outside of themselves like those living on Ocracoke Island, next to Cape Hatteras, North Carolina.

Completely agree. Rural folks and preppers stand the best chance of survival. Self sufficient and no need for government at all.

When personal health care consists of a pack of spicy V-8 juices in the morning after a drunken stupor sleep, the public sector cannot redeem this segment of the population nor are the funds available to do so.

Agree 100 percent.

The party's over.
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The party started to end when we elected President Trump. Pragmatist, I hope you don't feel I am attacking you personally. You make many outstanding and valid points. As with every pancake, there are always two sides and I hope the members are willing to look at both sides. During a normal disaster, all the plans you describe would be very valid. It is only the sudden loss of all communication and power in a national grid down that changes the equations. I do appreciate your posts. I also admit I sometimes have trouble deciphering some of your comments, but then again I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Pragmatist · Dec 4, 2019

Good afternoon TMT,

Concur; Trump is ending the socialists' party.

No, of course not. I understand this is only a discussion involving sensitive dread subjects: death, disease, permanent injuries, lost family members. We're not discussing plans for the fish fry.

Actually, we've got more than 2 sides to all this. What if the nation experiences a natural disaster such as a pandemic and a hostile or group of hostile nations wages forms of warfare against us ?! The aspirin won't eliminate the headaches nor will the sour mash bourbon.

We've never had a nuclear war nor a recent major war on US landmass so we're all just guessing the best we can. Frequently I do not write clearly. You are as sharp as the folks at the national meetings.

I've day-dreamed of MSF having "chapters" where regional meetings can be in person for real discussion and we can distribute our extra subject-matter pamphlets and related. Then discuss.

Is blue on black screen better for eyes than white letters on black ?

Are the "computer screen" non RX glasses sold at Walmart concession optical company of any value for long times at screen ?

......

A foot note; Some material I just can't discuss on the web for various reasons.

TMT Tactical · Dec 4, 2019

Afternoon Pragmatist.

I am glad you do not take it personal, as it is not intended to be. As for the font color and bold, that was to make it easier for folks to understand what you were saying verses my replies. I do understand that with your relationship to the disaster community, there are somethings better not said. Fortunately being a loose cannon I am free to post anything that pops into my ancient mind, scary huh.

watcherchris · Dec 17, 2019

Agree with Olde Geezer on this. For many many years now and since the 1880s, at least, but some aspects going back to before the American Civil War..there have been attempts to quietly usurp our intended and designed form of "Limited Government" and replace it with "unlimited government."

If you don't want people to know your business.....don't hang it out like a woman and pimp working a street corner....it is that simple.

In case some of you do not comprehend what I am describing... this impeachment business going on right now is a good illustration of my point. We have going on a power struggle between a Rogue Deep State which secretly represents private and powerful world moneyed interests who have secretly run our government through carefully selected, carefully elected proxy leadership...a show rigged for years against the American People....and an elected President who seems to believe in "Limited Government " and free market capitalism. The very antithesis of that believed and practiced by the Deep State.
Someone is deliberately dropping the veil on this power struggle and on the way to exposing the real controllers in this scam going on for so long. Exposing the women and pimp on the street corners wanting not to be seen or known.

Preppers tend to understand and know more history than the average American raised on a steady diet of television and movies...fears!!!

Preppers tend also to not wanting to be so "herded" by anyone or anything...which explains much of the fear of preppers.

The Deep State are the ones desiring to further "herd" America and Americans to their ever changing brand of conformity.

This impeachment struggle is much more ominous and deeper in its scope than most of leadership and also our pimping MSM working a street corner will dare tell us.

The coming gun confiscation in Virginia is a textbook Deep State pilot program for all 50 States and contrary to Amendment 2 but also contrary to Amendment 1....the right to peaceably assemble.

It's nature particularly targets preppers...but also all Americans with this Pilot Program.

Remember...the British did not trust the Colonialists with a state of the art weapon way back then....pre America.

And now we see British style Elitists today also not trusting Americans to be armed with a state of the art weapon.

Did the British ever leave,,,or did they sneak back into the Deep State when no one was looking...or were we distracted by the Russians????

Remember..If you cannot be trusted with a state of the art weapon you will not be trusted with your vote...think of the British and Brexit.

If you cannot be trusted with your high capacity magazines ...you will not be trusted with a high capacity fountain soft drink.
Spoken somewhat tongue in cheek but also with a note of seriousness and with historic elitism and "herding" in mind.

Ishmaelites at work....bondage.

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

poltiregist · Dec 17, 2019

I find it interesting that when this thread was started it was instantly meet with outrage , and fear the feds would come swooping down upon the members here . I respectively bowed out of the forum when such reaction was displayed . But now have seen this thread has escalated to its third page of contributors . Apparently we have quite a few members willing to stand up and fight for their liberties whether big brother likes it or not . That is precisely why I started this thread . I refuse to be intimidated by the government , to not stand up for my liberties . I will rethink my participation of this forum .

watcherchris · Dec 17, 2019

I will rethink my participation of this forum .

Amen poltiregist….Amen

And well said...well said!

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

watcherchris · Dec 17, 2019

TMT Tactical

I do not condone or am I willing to participate in any form of censorship. There is a reason Free Speech is the first Amendment and the "Right to Bear Arms is the second.
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I too do not care for censorship. If I don't care for something going on I leave. I motivate my feet and I am gone. I don't try to shut down or shout down others in a public setting.

Freedom of speech, religion, peaceful assembly, redress of grievances.

Armed people have been known to peacefully assemble...from the earliest days of this nation....even to redress grievances.....peacefully.

I would like to augment something about the first ten Amendments. If you read them carefully it becomes clear that they are all intended as limits on government...not the people. And it also becomes clear that governments have been scheming how to work their way around these very Amendments from the founding of this nation.

These Ten Amendments are something quite rare among the history of nations and people.

This knowledge about limits on government explains why our Constitution is not much covered or taught in public schools today. We and our posterity are never to know this about our Constitution.
I was taught by Elders knowledgeable in The Word as well as history....American as well as world history.

Our gun club occasionally has copies of The Declaration Of Independence and The Constitution of the United States for our membership.

Lest we forget.

My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

Pragmatist · Dec 18, 2019

Good morning all,

https://www.ready.gov/resolve-be-ready-social-media-toolkit

Above is a reminder that Preppers are on the leading edge of national policy.

A main weakness of the Prepper "community" is not attending local and area government meetings pertinent to the Prepper philosophy. You just don't know the real situation.

lonewolf · Dec 18, 2019

there are no local and area government meetings where I live, government only goes into action AFTER an event happens, they are reactive not proactive.
even if there were I doubt civilians would be allowed to attend.

watcherchris · Dec 18, 2019

lonewolf said: ↑

there are no local and area government meetings where I live, government only goes into action AFTER an event happens, they are reactive not proactive.
even if there were I doubt civilians would be allowed to attend.
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Wow!!!!

Tells one where the voters stand in the pecking order...when they are Subjects.

Suspect this is also being planned for here...in the states....a British template......while blaming the Russians.

Ishmaelites at work.

Pragmatist,

A main weakness of the Prepper "community" is not attending local and area government meetings pertinent to the Prepper philosophy. You just don't know the real situation.
Click to expand...

Preppers have valid reasons for not trusting government as evidenced clearly by the events coming out of the latest Virginia election. And as I have stated...I believe this to be a pilot program for the entire United States. To turn us slowly and incrementally into British Subjects...not American Citizens.

I became very alarmed back with Obama Care...and Flood Insurance is following the same pattern as Obama Care. No competition....escalating/skyrocketing costs. Nothing lowers costs in a free market like competition.

You are correct about not knowing the real situation.

My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

lonewolf · Dec 18, 2019

there is a set of rules that local councils are expected to follow but only AFTER an event has happened, who is responsible for what sort of thing.
it is available online, I have a copy in my paper files.

Pragmatist · Dec 18, 2019

http://www.preparingforemergencies.co.uk/

Good morning Lonewolf,

I do understand that the UK is in decay.

I'm not an optimist but do believe a recovery will start after the UK leaves the Confederation of the Rhine.

I've got to admit my political ignorance of the devolved sections of the UK. It sound like the worst of a national system coupled to the worst of a federal system.

Don't know if the above link is in British English but still might be of help.

lonewolf · Dec 18, 2019

yes, recovery will start after we leave the EU on 31st January 2020.
I was always a believer in the "common market" which we joined in the 1970s, having a trading agreement just made common sense, but all this political crap started creeping in during the 1990s and that's what most Leavers are against, we never voted to join the "united states of Europe", our country and yours fought 2 world wars so we wouldn't be pushed around by certain countries in Europe but they did it this time without firing a shot by political means instead.
well, enough is enough and time to leave.

watcherchris · Dec 18, 2019

lonewolf said: ↑

there is a set of rules that local councils are expected to follow but only AFTER an event has happened, who is responsible for what sort of thing.
it is available online, I have a copy in my paper files.
Click to expand...

LOL LOL LOL.....These rules are to keep the councils and therefore the people properly herded. One size fits all.

Sir Geoffery De Havilland would never have been able to invent his fabulous Mosquito fighter bomber under such council rules.

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

Pragmatist · Dec 18, 2019

Good morning Watcherchris,

Of course the Virginia election results allows for the pilot programs for national implementation.

I see much less difference between a British subject and a US citizen. Those Brits of Mayfair, Belgravia and Glasgow (oil fields) are in real good shape. The Prepper homesteading course will be held at Roadtown, British Virgin Islands, this February-all month long.

Only because I'm a generation older, I had no concern about ObamaCare. As soon as I heard "You get to keep you doctor", I was thinking of LBJ's "I seek no wider war".

The redeeming value to all this is that POTUS Trump will have 4 more years working in D.C. The numerous rural post offices around here will evaporate, inter alia - amongst other things.

...

Glad to read your posts. Was guessing that the entire shipyard was either processing paperwork for the contract administrators for the 9 new sub contracts or banging rivets or gluing composites together - what ever they do at the yard.

Am guessing the huge business to Electric Boat Groton allows some sort of mothballing of Pratt and Whitney and Connecticut stays semi-loyal.

...

Meanwhile, at least Governor Kiwi is proposing to eliminate auto inspection stickers like 35 other state have already done. There's no correlation to safety.

Pragmatist · Dec 18, 2019

Good afternoon Lonewolf,

I remember DeGaulle didn't want the UK in the Common Market and believe he initially vetoed Brit membership.

Then, DeGaulle withdraws from NATO never to fully return.

The EURO currency was manipulated and this affected non-user EU member UK

Germany starts to build an underwater LPG line with Russia (Nord Stream 2).

The UK was indirectly subsidizing the EU. The weave of the EU basket went well beyond trade.

31 January 2020 is time to return to "clubbing", at least for a day !

watcherchris · Dec 18, 2019

Lonewolf,

Before I forget...about 35 miles south of me is a small aerodrome and museum housing vintage aircraft from WW1 and WW2.

The very unique character of this museum is that most of the aircraft are maintained in flyable condition...not static display.

One of their flyable aircraft is a De Havilland Mosquito built to specifications in New Zealand. It is a genuine thrill to hear not just one but two Merlin engines turning up. They also have a flying Spitfire and Hurricane...but I verily like their Mosquito.

https://militaryaviationmuseum.org/aircraft/wwii-aircraft/

They also have a second De Havilland flying aircraft from between the wars a De Havilland Rapide airliner. Interesting in that it is a biplane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Dragon_Rapide

Thanks,

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

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