Buckshot -- 20 Gauge #1 Buckshot

Discussion in 'Ammo - Types, Usage, Reloading, ETC.' started by Old Geezer, Jan 27, 2020.

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  1. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    First, the 12 gauge buckshot loads have more energy and killing power than 20 ga loads.

    Yet, dead is dead. A 20 gauge has more killing power than a .44 mag. handgun. Slugs out of a 20 gauge are over .60 caliber and are traveling well over 1500 ft / sec, with over 1500 ft lb.s of energy. Close-in, 20 ga buckshot is unholy lethal. Again, the 12 ga has more energy and killing power. Again, dead is dead.

    I love the 20 gauge. I am very biased. Many of you guys have 20 ga shotguns. Some prefer the lighter recoil, but know that a light 20 ga shotgun will kick the dickens out of you if you are shooting full-horse loads.

    Larger the buckshot, the deeper the penetration. Most 2 3/4" 20 ga buckshot loads are loaded with #3 buck; 3" mag. often are loaded with #2 buck. Wouldn't it be nice to have even larger diameter pellets.

    20 ga. #1 buckshot

    25 round box - 20 Gauge Number 1 Buckshot Ammo by Spartan Ammunition
    https://www.sgammo.com/product/20-g...uge-number-1-buckshot-ammo-spartan-ammunition

    Natchez 25 rnd box #1 buckshot 9 pellets; I think Natches loads another shell with 12 pellets of #1 buck, but I can't find it right now.
    https://outdoors.natchezss.com/bestsellers/20-Ga-Buckshot

    Patterns at varying distances, Spartan. Video:


    Patterns at varying distances, Rio. Video



    upload_2020-1-27_22-57-48.png
     
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    A 20 ga. is a sissy shotgun. Real men use 12 ga. shotguns!
     
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  3. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    A shotgun loaded with buckshot is my first go to for night time combat , not as much accuracy needed . We even had about ten I was in charge of in Nam . Those were Ethica 12 gauges with stainless steel liners inside the barrels . I never did figure out the reason for those stainless steel liners . At least it looked like stainless steel to me . Just the loud explosion and fire belching out the end of a shotgun barrel at night would make many soil their pants if they were the intended target . Day time a scoped bolt action rifle for cold and precise bullet placement would be my choice . I am not the spray and hope guy .------My first buck deer I killed was with a 20 gauge and a load of buckshot . Our hounds run the deer in front of me when I was 13 .
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  4. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    That depends.

    The 12 will normally have more pellets but the individual pellets won't have more energy than a 20 GA loaded to the same velocities.

    Pellet size makes more difference than the shell you use to load it.

    00 Buck rules.
     
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Urban dwellers must have the means to deal with looters and home invaders. Home invasions happen even now without any SHTF event having gone down. Korean merchants living in L.A were able to keep the savage invaders out of their areas during the 1992 riots. People who've gone crazy, mean, or crazy mean still understand physical force. Knock a few down and those still having a few brain cells active will scoot on out'a your environs.
     
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I do like the 20 ga. but will replace my "lost" 20 ga. with a new mag fed 12 ga. semi auto. I would consider another 20 ga. if it was mag fed. Any suggestions for Mr. El Cheapo.
     
  7. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I have killed large critters with both 12 gauge and 20 gauge using buckshot . The 12 gauge definitely has more killing power . The physical characteristics of the shooter and purpose of the shot and under what conditions need to be considered . Less recoil of the 20 means it could easier be shot from an off shoulder position . Unlike what they show on tv westerns , most 12's would be difficult to shoot in an off shoulder position without it kicking right out of your grasp .
     
  8. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    I like my 12 gauge pump guns. One Ithaca model 37 and a Mossberg pump..both in short police barrels.

    I do have the full length vented barrel for the Mossberg with the screw in chokes...but it is usually configured for house protection.


    I also have two 20 gauge combination guns I verily like.

    One a .22 long rifle over a 20 gauge shotgun.

    The other a .357 Magnum over a 20 gauge shotgun.

    I purchased these in particular for their simplicity and practicality.


    The 20 gauge up close is lethal....big time.


    House to house the shotgun in Iraq has proven itself again...over and over...even against the vaunted AK 47.

    When I was a youngster in this shipyard many years ago...;.the olde Timers who had been in WW2.... told me that in France....in these villages...house to house....the M1 Garand was the wrong tool. They wanted shotguns...many of them were raised on shotguns.....they knew what a shotgun could do but had to settle for the Thompson Machine gun ..or failing that ..the Grease gun....for close in work. Shotguns were difficult to come by.

    Interesting to me that these lessons are being relearned in Iraq by a new generation of soldiers.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
    1. Old Geezer
      Wise information. Appreciated.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 30, 2020
  9. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    My Ithaca model 37 ...12 gauge police special will slam fire....just hold down the trigger and pump. I do not recommend this as the pump will jump right out of your hand the recoil is so stout.

    The newer Ithaca model 37s currently being made will not slam fire.

    My Rossi .22 pump guns will also slam fire...again I do not recommend this...as I prefer accuracy to just making a lot of noise.

    I like accurate guns...short or long guns.

    Ammo can also get expensive if all you do is make noise.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
  10. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Your choices are limited if you want a shotgun with a detachable magazine.
     
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  11. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    "Killing power" isn't a function of bore diameter.
    It's dependent on pellet size and velocity.

    The main advantage to the 12 gauge is it holds more pellets, and it's easier to find loads with the larger pellets.

    If you load your own you can use any size pellets you want in either gauge.
    You will simply have fewer in the smaller shells.
     
  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have always liked the 20 gauge for most of my hunting. About the only two thongs that a 12 ga is a lot better for is geese and deer. The new rifles barrels though make a 20 ga slug a killer at amazing distances.For survival, I like a 20 ga because the ammo is lighter so I can carry more. If I am on the run weight matters. At home, I have three Mossberg 500s and all are 12 ga. Two are regular and I have several different barrels for them and then one is the longer defender with an 8 shot tube. i am thinking about getting a 20 ga if I can find one that isn't a vent rib. I hate those things. I use my shotguns and hunt with them. Cleaning a vent rib after sitting out in the rain is a pain. I really like my 20 ga double. it is light and fast. With 3" shells it has about as much lead in the air as a standard 12 ga shell. I used 20 ga for ducks when I was young with no problems. For small game, it is hard to beat a 410.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Wise observations.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 30, 2020
  13. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Actually killing is more about hitting what you aim at in a lethal place. I used #6 shot for ducks instead of larger shot because one pellet in the head drops them more surely than several larger pellets in the body. Using the smaller more dense pattern lighter shot made for cleaner kills and fewer lost wounded birds.

    I also like the 12 ga1 3/4" shorts and in a post-apocalyptic situation might actually make my own for shooting small game with minimal use of shot and powder. their recoil is minimal but the bunny, bird or squirrel doesn't care.

    https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ammunition/shotgun-ammo/12-gauge/mini-and-short-shells/
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Again, wise observations.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 30, 2020
  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Post SHTF, simply wounding looters has value. Such folk, however compromised intellectually, are not utterly divested of wisdom however carnal it my be. Now if they keep on coming, something is wrong and it's not yours to fathom, so drop them. Good decisions, bad decisions, our souls lie in the Palm of God's Hands. Bad decisions lead to unhappy consequences. No excuses. It's a hard world. Nobody ever promised anyone a rose garden.

    upload_2020-1-30_22-33-36.png
     
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  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Subject: 12 ga buckshot

    I'm a fan of the 20 ga. when it comes to shotguns (I'm a rifle-guy; I like 20ga slugs out of rifled shotgun barrels). But let's talk some 12 ga buckshot loads. Seems appropriate now that violence in the streets is increasing and stores are being routinely looted and burned by the peaceful protesters. Attacks of suburbs is also occurring and will definitely increase as America spirals down the toilet.

    I hate videos that involve talking and talking and ... talking ... . In the following video, 12 ga buckshot loads, 00 and #1 buck, are being tested using ballistic gel at varying distances. There is discussion of loads, however they keep to the subject and give specific data. They do their penetration recording keeping and show the data, therefore it kept my attention.



    In the following video, the best ammo is being used, Fed FliteControl w/copper plated buckshot. This may not be available -- the good stuff runs out.



    Fed FliteControl w/special shot-cup vs. regular standard wad-cup. This fellow will bore you to tears for half the video. Seven minutes in, he finally begins showing you the buckshot patters. Therefore, watch his intro, then skip to 7 minutes. I watched the thing throughout -- God's blessed him with some property the equivalence of which I'd like to possess.


    Next 12 ga buck 00 & #4 at 50yrds experimental question, "Will buckshot retain sufficient velocity to be lethal at 50 yards?"


    .
     
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  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I generally like a shotgun for up close and consider 40 to 50 yards about the max and beginning to get a little less trustworthy for a fast one-shot stop with anything less than a slug of the biggest buckshot available. I really like shotguns for close work. That is the lest than 30 yards... closer is even better. Most of my buckshot loads with that in mind are #4 buck. that is 24 caliber pellets. There are a bunch of them in a 12 ga shell or even in a 20 ga shell. In that 30 yards or less distance they are goingto hit as a fairly small group and it doesn't matter too much what size shot it is, they are going to go down if you hit the body solidly. If you get inside 10 yards even Heavy 6 shot duck loads are leathal.

    I like the 20 ga. for two big reasons. The ammo is lighter and the guns are lighter. A loaded 20 ga shotgun is noticable lighter to carry than a 12 ga loaded shotgun. The recoil is less but I have never been very recoil sensitive. Maybe if I was firing as a group of targets the 20 ga might be a little easier and faster to move from target to target but not very much. For a lot of hunting things, the extra weight is actually an advantage. It makes my swing for ducks and geese a little smoother but on the sort of duckhunting that I did I honestly never felt hindered by shooting just a 20ga. Ducks in swamps is a fast shoot even out in the open they will come in low and fast and I always liked the pump 20 with 3" mag loads better than my 12 ga. At that time I was shooting a 1400 winchester auto with a 30-inch barrel for geese and high flying ducks. It was a heavy beast but would reach out there.

    I alway tried to start kids or women with a 20 ga. Onc they learned how to hold and address the shotgun recoil became less of a problem but starting them out with all the bad habbits and a 12 ga was just wrong. A 20 ga with light low brass target loads would in the long run pay in better accuracy and fewer bruises. I have watched grown men that couldn't hit a duck or dove to save their life and have seen that they were closing their eyes just as or before they pulled the trigger. If you asked themabout it they would swear that they weren't doing it. To them, it was just that they blinked when the gun went off but I watch and they close their eyes before and best of all if I slip them a blank shell loaded with no powder and a spent primer they still close their eyes. That is just how they learned.

    They would be better off with 10 that they shot with open eyes. Between closed eyes and HUGE flinching, a lot of men lose all of the advantages that a shotgun has to offer. If you shoot a lot and work on your technique you can overcome some of this but to me, it was always better to start someone off right and never let them develope the problems. I speak from experiance. I started hunting with a 12 ga double barrel when I was 8. the stock was too long for me and it kicked the crap out of me. I was a grown man when I got really interested in gunsand a lot of serious shooting. When i started trying to shoot one hole rifle and handgun groups it basically had to relearn my entire skill set.

    I also have a liking for a 410. The ammo is super light and if I was just wanting a gun for feeding me alone it would be a 410. It isn't a slouch for defence either. A 410 slug or 4 OO buck pellets or as is my preferred load, a slug with two OO buck shot under it, will stop a big man at 20 yards or less. I have a tiny little sawed off 410 snake gun sitting beside me right now. In the house it is LETHAL but I don't have to worry about harming my neighbors (Kids and grandkiddo). At in-house distances I am not going to miss so I don't think that I will need more than one shot. If there are more than one my wife will take out number two while I grab my pistol. If I'm in my bed then the gun of choice will eith be the 9mm on the headboard of the 12 ga mossberg 8 shot defender that is beside the bed.

    In the shower is about the only time tht I am out of reaching distance to a gun. I'm not paranoid I just can't see the point of having 30 or 40 guns in the house and not having one near me at all times. We live with the kids on three fenced acres. At night once everyone is in we close the gates and turn out the dogs. LOL, Nobody is going to sneak up on us at night and the three big bordercollies are probably going to be more than most people want to mess with. The means and agressive monster though is my Yorkie. She is 6 pounds of pure agression and the leader of the pack when she is out...or at least that is what she believes.
     
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Having a weapon next to you while in the shower

    The toilet tank is immediately adjacent to the shower in the bathroom we use exclusively. I always place some sort of pistol or revolver atop that tank while in the shower. It is an arm-length away should the dog go bat-sh## crazy -- that thing is the heavy & fanged biologic half of my perimeter defenses.

    In South Africa NOT keeping a weapon close enough to his bathtub got another white farmer tortured to death. The savages there are thorough in that they make sure to rape the women before stabbing them to death and torture the men to death (often castrating him before killing him). Efficient farmers are being lost/killed in S.Africa which is further exacerbating the starvation there while they are in the middle of having droughts. Thousands have been killed since the peaceful ANC came to power. You will NOT find this sort of thing in the communist media.
    .
     
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  18. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    My pistol is always within arms reach, shower, bath, toilet or on the laptop. I don't worry about rust or scratches on my firearms. Those conditions can be fixed.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      "... rust or scratches ..." No sh##!!! I routinely see urban pickup trucks. How do I know they are urbanite owned? There's no scratches and dents. It's like a man who says he is a worker, yet has no calluses on his hands. Why does Snap-on Tool replace broken tools? Real workers buy them and break them with use -- Snap-on relies on return customers. Firearms take hell! I like military surplus rifles due to their sights having steel around them to keep them from being destroyed -- witness the Lee-Enfields. Thanx for your comment TMT. If a hunting or military weapon is not sturdy, then it SHOULD be melted-down.
       
      Old Geezer, Nov 6, 2020
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  19. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    speaking of lee enfields, I have to wonder the longevity of a modern rifle. Take the TC compass or a savage. I've seen them go for not much more than couple hundred bucks after a rebate. They shoot good, bare bones, no sights, composite stock etc. but I wonder how well they hold up long term.
     
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  20. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Were I a young man, I'd trust savage to build me a sturdy accurate rifle that would last me a lifetime, so long as I did my part to maintain the rifle.



    https://www.savagearms.com/content?...ary=off&fsingle=off&ftop=off&ftube=off&fsamt=
     
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I have the T/C compass and it shoots sub-MOA. A little work on the stock (bedding) and the trigger (lighter springs) and it is a winner in my book. I don't think you have to spend a thousand dollars to have a solid shooter. Composite stocks don't crack or break but they can flex in the forearm, that is where the bedding is needed. These are hunting / sniper rifles, not battle rifles.
     
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  22. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The range of rifle configurations that Savage turns out is mind-boggling. Me, I think they are ugly; but then, so am I. Back a hundred years or so ago, my body actually worked (I'm off a stint now due to body break-down, serious sh##; seems I'm on a recovery streak; fingers crossed; everyone has their time to punch-out; an old friend came to me in a dream two weeks ago, so I checked the obituaries for his city, he'd died, he'd simply come to pay a visit in that dream).

    I'd trust a Savage rifle to work even after decades of use.

    https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=23200

    53425642ee84d80a76100c3f1ba5fef5.png

    110 RIDGE WARRIOR
    Not many rifles can prove themselves at the range and in the field. The 110 Ridge Warrior is adaptable enough to take on targets one day and trophies the next. Features like the low-friction PVD coating and threaded heavy barrel create an all-around utility rifle up for any challenge. The AccuFit system lets hunters customize length-of-pull and comb height of the Mossy Oak Overwatch synthetic stock, the official camouflage of the National Rifle Association. Plus, the user-adjustable AccuTrigger offers a crisp, clean pull critical for making precise shots at extreme distances. The rifle is built to maximize accuracy with a beavertail forend, as well as the Model 110 action secured three-dimensionally along its entire length within the AccuStock internal chassis. With all these features, accuracy is in its DNA.
    Features
    • AccuFit system lets hunters and shooters adjustcomb height and length of pull
    • AccuStock®
    • NRA Exclusive Mossy Oak Overwatch CamoStock with beavertail forend
    • Model 110 stainless steel barreled actionAccuFit system lets hunters and shooters adjust comb height and length of pull
    • User-adjustable AccuTrigger
    • Fluted heavy barrel with 5/8-24threaded muzzle
    • Detachable box magazine
    • Gunsmoke gray PVD-coated knurled bolt handle, receiver, barrel, trigger guard, and mag well
    • Drilled & tapped receiver
    • EGW 20 MOA picatinny rail
    • 3-position safety
     
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  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Question for our Alaska and far-north members:

    This thread has taken a bit of a tangent, but a good tangent. The issue of firearm durability has come up, therefore one's mind takes a journey to near-arctic conditions. We all know that oil turns to syrup in the cold, but there must be a ton of issues (icing conditions, grit, getting gloved fingers through the trigger guard, stock warpage, cold shots vs. warmed-up barrel, clean barrel vs dirty barrel, ... on and on.

    Never having lived under terrible weather conditions, I can only surmise this or that.

    Y'all who've lived where the elements take their toll on equipment, please do inform us about your choices in rifles that will not fail you when the weather has failed you.
    .
     
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  24. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I read aa article, maybe it was outdoor life magazine. A guy had flown into a remote lodge and they had a bunch of rifles there and some of them didn't work. The main problem was a complicated trigger. That was the jist of the article, pick a rifle with a simple trigger.
     
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  25. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have a savage 99F in 300 Savage that I am the third or fourth generation to own. It is still tight and I have no trouble with small groups out to 300 yards. In the old days, Savage, Stevens Winchester and Colt all made guns that lasted several lifetimes. I had a friend with a Winchester 94 in 38-40 and he is the fifth generation to take deer with it and he was well over 70 so the sixth generation may already have it. My Model 90 Winchester is on its 5th generation in my family. I also have a Stevens 12ga double that was used in WW2 to teach gunners in the Navy how to lead a moving target. My Dad got it when he was going home after the war for 5 dollars. You handed them a 5 dollar bill and they gave you a shotgun. There were several different kinds. Well made guns will last almost forever if they are cared for and treated right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  26. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    I hunt with a 20 Ga. side by side Uplander for grouse, rabbit, etc and like it for Turkeys with #4 shot. I have even hunted coyotes and foxes with it at night using #5 buckshot. But if I'm defending the house, it's either the 9mm MP5 or the 12Ga. that I go for after picking up the pistol.
     
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  27. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I've heard a lot of positives about tungsten shot. Maybe good for home defense at times. Heard of folks hunting turkey with a .410 using tungsten shot and having great success with it.
     
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  28. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Enough time spent on this sissy stuff! Lets go large!

    Can you say, "Ten gauge 0000 buckshot?!" You're not reading this wrong -- we're talking QUAD aught buck, Buster!



    Ithaca New York? No man, Ithaca 10 ga semi-auto.



    Ain't no sin t'go ten!
    ;);););););););););)
     
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