10 Guns

Discussion in 'Jokes and Humor' started by LastOutlaw, Mar 1, 2020.

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  1. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Legendary Survivalist
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    For those of you who are new to the prepper realm, I would like to encourage you to buy a high power rifle in addition to the shotgun you have already purchased.

    As times go very sideways, the whole SHTF thing, you will need a high power rifle. The ammo for deer rifles and for surplus (obsolete military) rifles often is still readily available. Odd, but true; popular ammunition is disappearing off the ammo shelves of gun stores, yet less popular center-rifle chamberings have ammo still on the shelves. Important: Check ammo availability before buying a surplus rifle or a deer rifle.

    For survival purposes, you don't need an "assault rifle". A bolt action or a lever action will serve you well. Negotiate the price on surplus rifles. They are not rare. Only the museum quality firearms have collector value. Don't let a firearms dealer run some bogus game on you. Pay cash. Negotiate price.

    Shotguns for home defense are dynamite, but their useful range is limited. And, they won't shoot through heavy walls nor the engine blocks of vehicles. High power rifles will. High power rifles are accurate ... even the old surplus rifles will surprise you in the accuracy department.

    The madness that is coming requires that you have serious rifles.

    https://thegunzone.com/best-surplus-rifles/

    https://www.barrettrifles.com/lever-action-rifles/

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bolt+acti...b=v140-1&df=y&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

    As the former USA collapses, there will be on-the-road roving predator gangs. Shotguns will not suffice for these killer crews. You need to engage them at distance. You are in dire peril if you let them get close. As things get terrible after the coming collapse of Western economies, you may likely form defense groups to establish a safe perimeter where you folk live. Your team will need to be armed with center-fire rifles. The more accurate the rifles the better. If you can buy bulk military surplus ammunition, then you can practice, practice, practice.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=surplus+m...b=v140-1&df=y&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos
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  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    it seems only in America do preppers think there will be "roving predator gangs" , I personally have never subscribed to the "golden horde" theory so beloved of fiction writers and Hollywood directors, probably because I live in a country where most people live in cities (about 80% of the population) and dont have a clue about where their food comes from (apart from a supermarket or the local take-away) and any looting will be confined to the cities and areas just outside a city limit.
    fuel supplies will run out within 24 hours and wont be replaced.
    looters are not preppers and wont have extra fuel limiting how far they can travel.
    roadways will become blocked with broken down and out of fuel vehicles blocking the highway.
    after a storm the roads will be littered with debris and fallen trees.
    a majority of the population are overweight, unhealthy and unfit and wont be able to walk far, 2 out of every 3 people are obese and diabetis is rife .
    those that do leave the city will be few in number and will be subject to violence from others of their kind.
     
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  4. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    That doesn't take anything away from the very good point that availability of ammunition could be a long term issue making the .223 Wilde or .308/7.62 sound choices of calibers along with .22lr in the UK. Many of the calibers that we see talked about by American forum members are less popular over here and consequently hard to find. 12 gauge shotguns will never go out of fashion here either. From my perspective these are all useful hunting calibers.
    I'm not going to comment on whether or not the idea of a golden hoard is possible other than to say that government funded disaster resilience planners have taken the trouble to model 'zombie' scenarios here in the UK.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    My belief that there will be roving gangs is ONLY based upon what I've observed here in America. In the American South, I've witnessed the gangs and their "partying". Specifically motorcycle gangs. Indeed, I grew up with a fellow who, as an adult, took over his father's place as leader of an established motorcycle gang (decades old; no, not Hell's Angels; there's bunches of gangs; the gang I knew made their money on the cocaine trade). Funny thing, their headquarters was at the entrance to the best local shooting range. Passed by them a few times per month, but you couldn't see into their turf (one or two acres with buildings) because it had a corrugated steel fence with locked gate. In his adulthood, my childhood chum was always in and out of prison -- just like his dear old dad. But he was not so very evil. He wasn't out of control, at least not so often. (He did buy explosives ... from an undercover Fed ... oops! did federal time on that one. I only knew one of my dad's friends to do federal time and that fellow was one super-nice human being, he was a real good guy but the Feds got him.)

    The very mobile gangs who already exist here in America, I don't think will be so much of a problem. Shoot, they may even come to people's aid. The gang I knew took up toys for the poor kids during Christmas time. However, there will evolve predatory monsters during the SHTF times coming and they will travel. There exists a WIDE streak of nomadic behavioral patterns written into human DNA. I've moved my family for jobs. When things started looking bad where I was or if I found a better job somewhere else, I pulled up stakes and moved. I can be a loyal worker or I can be mean.

    Sociopaths are anything but rare. They will do whatever they have to do to get by. If they use-up one place, they'll roll to the next. If there is any fuel whatsoever to be found in a place, they kill as many people they have to to steal it and scoot on down the road. In America, there is ZERO shortage of heavy equipment to clear the county roads. While it is true that major highways will be owned by the military, the side-roads will be controlled by those who are the most ferocious. Most times it will be the local folk -- where I'm from, everyone is armed and have no qualms about killing.

    Many small communities will be avoided by future evil gangs because they possess enough intelligence NOT to go where they will get their @$$es handed to them. Whereas with some motorcycle crews, I'd walk up, shake hands with them, and share a few beers and stories. In future, when it comes to the jackals, I'll kill them on sight -- me and a hundred other men.

    I don't know where other folk live and I probably totally misunderstand your cultural ways, but here in America, there will be the formation of bad-player gangs.

    Here's some minor incidents. In future, these gangs will massively increase and become swarms. T



    In the next instance, the driver of an SUV was able to drive-over some of the sub-human motorcyclists, but he didn't get enough of them and didn't have a gun with him. I'd like to see a video wherein the occupants of a vehicle under attack had firearms and took some names. Attackers writhing on the ground can be a thing of beauty.



    Post SHTF, no law enforcement agencies will be able to put down gangs. The cops can occasionally pull a show of force in these days before the disintegration of civilization, but certainly not afterwards. Here's a bust of only twenty or so gang-bangers:


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  6. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    LoneWolf, The reason Americans worry about "Predatory Gangs" is that they are already here. Every time there is a major power outage, natural disaster, riots, etc. they come out of there holes and steal EVERYTHING that's not anchored down firmly. Our court system hasn't worked in a long while and these folks learn young how to work the system. Rob someone's home and get caught...blame the home owner. and they get away with it in the liberal courts. Sad, but it's what is.

    Dale
     
  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Hurricane Irma, Miami, looters taking needed food and water supplies from a Foot Locker shoe store. Fast-forward 50 seconds into this video to see the poor hungry and thirsty looters stealing food and water for their children:



    Notice also how the looters drop their food to bring out their chain saws cutting-up fallen trees to allow emergency vehicles into these hurricane-ravaged neighborhoods. What noble people!

    Post- Hurricane Katrina, the poor were out scavenging needed food supplies (note the MSM using the words, "customers" and "shoppers"):




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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Engaging multiple targets with a shotgun

    1st vid shows engagement with handgun, then carbine, then shotgun. Pay attention to the weapon that gets the job done best at close range.



    ==================================

    Reloading a pump shotgun during an engagement. People, DO NOT reload if the situation is still hot. You gotta by-god know that you've got the seconds to reload -- to make a mistake about this is a fatal mistake. But know that running out of rounds is also a fatal mistake. Welcome to life. This is the reason high capacity magazines are necessary for defense against home invaders.



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  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    the trouble with biker gangs and I have known a few in my time is post SHTF they like everyone else will run out of petrol, they dont keep any spare fuel just whats in the petrol tank .
    some of the more adapted bikes have really small petrol tanks.
    until the more recent BLM protests we hadnt had a mob protest in the UK since about 2011.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      They'll be siphoning petrol and stabbing abandoned vehicle gas tanks to get the last few ounces. There'll be rolling theft -- food and fuel -- to get them from where they are to the next place on down the road. Europe and England doesn't have as many of these migratory monsters; however, these sorts are now flowing into Europe from their savage countries of origin. Monsters seem to always make-do ... until they run into unrelenting gunfire.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 27, 2022
  11. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    More vids concerning shotguns / firefights with shotguns





    Don't go for head-shots. Shoot for center-mass; thorax / upper abdomen.


    Fun with slugs comes up next. Note that the shotgun has rifle sights. The young man in the video brings his shotgun off his shoulder to rack the slide -- DO NOT DO THAT! Rack the slide with your weapon still on target. Note from this video that slugs have TOO MUCH penetration for home defense. Note that even if you have buckshot or birdshot, you still must aim a shotgun. B.S. in TV shows and movies has it that you don't have to aim. The people who make movies are good at blabbering, but decidedly inferior when it comes to common sense and logic in general.



    Storing your shotgun



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l7ZpR7zgQE
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  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Hornady upgrades the accuracy of a .30 cal magnum cartridge with its .300 PRC.

    Their goal was to beat the .300 Winchester magnum with an out-of-the-box super-accurate ammunition. One can, of course, reload the .300 mag and get it to be super accurate. Hornady wanted to start its engineering from the ground up and create an inherently accurate round (out-of-the-box) just as they did with their 6.5 Creedmore.

    Hornady's result is the .300 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge). Two rifle manufacturers quickly came up with rifles for this chambering; they were Ruger with its Precision Rifle and Barrett with its MRAD (Multi-Role Adaptive Design).

    For almost all hunting scenarios, the .300 Win Mag will be perfectly fine. The Hornady .300 PRC is for precision shooting. The .338 Lapua is not as flat-shooting as the 300 PRC when you get out past 1000 yards. The heavy bullets of the 300prc retain a whole lot of killing energy "way out there". Hornady has a 300 grain 30 cal. bullet for this chambering. Wind deflection is less for the smaller 30 cal vs 338 cal. The sectional density on heavy 30cal. bullets is super high, i.e. these puppies are super efficient.

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/11/19/tested-hornady-s-300-prc


    upload_2021-1-22_16-56-9.png

    upload_2021-1-22_17-41-14.png





    upload_2021-1-22_16-57-5.png

    upload_2021-1-22_17-1-35.png

    Now, the Savage Elite Precision:

    https://www.ballisticmag.com/2020/11/19/savage-elite-precision-300-prc-review/

    https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57555

    upload_2021-1-22_17-48-52.png
     
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  13. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Good info, thanks OG.
     
  14. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    What you need for an armament has a lot to do with where you are, what your skill level is with different firearms and what you want those firearms to do for you.

    If you live in either open country or in the suburbs where there are a lot of long shots possible you want something that can reach out and touch someone before they are near enough t cause you a problem. In the tight inner city or heavily wooded places where you can't see for 50 yards in and direction, a shotgun has a lot to offer.

    You also need to make a REALISTIC assessment of your shooting ability. Just having a rifle, whether it is a scoped bolt action or an assault rifle does not make you the second coming of Rambo or the Rifleman. If you have not shot a hundred rounds in your entire life and never have had any serious training then you are probably not going to want a rifle for your main defensive weapon. The problem is that if you were to shoot and me and miss I can and will shoot at you and kill you. Tens of thousands of rounds fired make it a matter of muscle memory and I can react fast and I do mostly headshots. I TRAINED that way. I am not military and I have no interest in injuring you, capturing you, or making you surrender. I want you DEAD. If I injure you I then will have to track you down and finish it.

    Wars have rules. It is a matter of two nations wanting to force the other to capitulate and in general, this is best done by causing massive casualties not corpses. When the enemy can no longer care for their casualties and the troops have to watch their brothers at arms die a slow death on the battlefield they will lose heart and surrender.

    Surviving in a post-apocalyptic world if you want to maintain some part of your humanity will be best done by first avoiding attention. Some people are already little more than animals and without the rule of law, they will come for you. You want to KILL them all and then follow and finish off as many as you can. If you just chase them off they will come back and ambush you. Once someone has identified themselves as animals you need to treat them much as you would a rabid dog. I want it DEAD not running around trying to hurt you later or hurt others.

    If you have the money you will want to cover all possible bases. A pump shotgun is a must. Up close it can't be beaten. An AR for example can shoot you 30 times with 22 caliber bullets. a 12 ga shotgun with number 4 buckshot hits you with 30, 22 caliber pellets, EVERY time that you put the trigger. It STOPS you NOW and not in a little while. I have three Mossberg 12 ga shotguns. Two are regular and one is an 8 shot beast with a pistol grip folding stock and a stock bandoleer offering 6 more rounds on hand. I also have a blinding flashlight on the bottom of the tube and where the spot is where the shot will hit. For in the house and in my yard it is nearly perfect. The other two regular hunting style Mossbergs share 5 barrels that allow me to do all sorts of things. A 20” slug barrel with rifle sights lets me reach out to over 100 yards and take you down. The 18” with a pistol grip can be swung around in the cab of my truck. The other two barrels are one with an old poly choke and one with choke tubes. For defense, if I could only have one gun it would be one of the regular shotguns with three barrels.

    You will also want a good scoped rifle. I like bolt actions but also have them in lever action and like the single shots. This is your long-range gun. Once again if you have not spent time with one of these they are of limited use. I can and have made hits in targets the size of the palm of my hand at 300 yards many times and I will tell you that I am nothing very special with a rifle. If you get or have one you need to shoot it and know what your abilities are. The advantage of this kind of weapon is that you can take out a threat before they get close enough to be a big threat. A missed shot gives your target the advantage. They KNOW where you are and now they are on the move.

    Many people these days are big on assault rifles. If you are on the move and can only have one long gun there is a lot to be said for them. The .223/5.56 is a light round and that allows you to carry a lot of ammo that while not a great stopper it is a lot better than a 22LR. The biggest problem with the 5.56 is that if you use ball military ammo and hit someone in the body without hitting a bone it doesn’t have a lot ofstopping power while a handgun delivers all that it has. Would I rather have a handgun in a fight than an AR? Hell no BUT you need to be aware that the AR firing ball ammo was and is intentionally not very deadly. Wars are won by casualties and not deaths.

    Handguns are your closest buddy. You Can and should sleep with them, have them at your side at all times and be able to draw and hit anything within about 10 yards of you without much thought. This is primarily an emergency response weapon. You can shoot it and make an attacker duck and dodge while you get to your shotgun or rifle.

    No armory can be complete without a dependable 22lr. I love the Ruger 10-22 because it is a good small game getter and in a bind, I can slap a 30 round banana clip in it and scare an attacker half to death. I used to have a wind-up trigger puller that could make a 10-22 sound like a full-on machine gun. Fun but not very practical. Nonetheless, it would give a group of attackers pause not knowing what in the hell they were facing. It is sort of like the handgun and something to keep them ducking while I go for a real weapon. That said though a 22lr in the head will just ruin an attacker's day and with a 3X9 scope, I can snipe a squirrel out to about 125 to 150 yards.

    OK, we have a shotgun of choice, a scoped high-powered rifle, an assault rifle, handguns of choice, and a 22lr rifle for small game and emergency use. 22Ammo is so light and plentiful that you can have thousands of rounds without breaking the bank or your back if you are carrying it.

    Now, I am not happy until I have all bases covered within reason. You need some sort of medium weight up-close battle weapon. Up close and personal there are few things that will scare someone worse than an ax or machete. I think that people see getting shot as a quick clean sort of thing but getting chopped up just doesn’t sound good at all!!! I have gone beyond this to a double bit battle-ax and a hand and a half sword. I admit that I love a sharp weapon. Dirks, daggers, marine Kabars, I have them all and have several that I have made myself. If you want to do it silently and up close you want something sharp.

    A lot has to do with your plans. If you are in a city, are you going to try to ride it out in place, or are you going to try to get out? If you are going to run and are not the first to go you may not get very far. I have seen what the roads out of a big city look like during a major evacuation and you are going to be walking pretty quickly. At that point, you have to decide what you can carry and what it and the ammo is going to weigh.

    I have workarounds for this but each of us has to make plans based on our skills, condition, and where we want to go. The BIG thing is do NOT wait until the last minute to plan and act on those plans. Get out early and have someplace specific to go where you might be welcome. Really quick refugees are going to become VERY unpopular. A small town has only limited resources and they are NOT going to give them away to strangers. Things get ugly faster than you would ever imagine. I saw the local cops giving the bums rush to evacuees from a hurricane once. They stopped them out of town at a bridge and then they sent them through in small escorted groups THROUGH town and then OUT the other side. No stops and don’t come back. I can’t imagine that things would go even that nice after the world as we know it died and went up in flames.
     
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  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Me, where I was raised, only short-ranges were the reality. So, up close it was a shotgun or an accurate .22 rifle to take game.

    For home defense, you can't beat a shotgun.

    For survival close-in (too close) encounters its the shotgun, plus something like a lever deer rifle. Even in the mountain woods, you'll have to engage out to 200 to 300+ meters; however, the 400-500 meter shots would be rare. This is why I sight-in my center-fire rifles for 200 yards. For a .308 200 yrd spot-on, one is hitting 2.5 inches (6.3 cm) high at 100 yards, 6" to 8" low at 300 yards, and 2 ft low at 400 yards.

    In the following article, the fellow is using a .270 Winchester -- an old tried'n'true caliber. He gives suggestions on the sighting in of scopes. Reasonably good info I think (found some things I wish he had explained differently). I didn't micro-read it for errors, but all that I read was true. He calls this "long-range" shooting, but it's not. Seems a decent over-view piece, therefore I share it. His trajectory table I like. He's using a .270 Win and so the 400 yard smack point is 20 inches. A .308 will be down around 24' to 26' out there if sighted at 200 yards. When you are really reaching out there past 300 - 400 yards, windage is going to mess you up -- even a breeze will affect your strike point. Light bullets that are only .22 caliber or .243 / 6mm will get pushed to the side by a cross-wind.

    https://www.huntinggearguy.com/tips/sighting-in-a-rifle-for-long-range-hunting/

    upload_2021-1-23_0-43-33.png

    As to truly long-range shooting, prepper groups that are located in the plains states would have to prepare for such scenarios. They could have aggressors sending in harassment or intended kill shots from out past 500 yards. I am NOT the person to provide information concerning those scenarios. One would be better served reading intel provided by people who served in-country where the shots were being exchanged at distance. Iraq and Afghanistan sniper engagement information would be where I would first look.

    Knew a fellow who'd take tracers off an M60 belt to put in his M14 to get a visual on his rifle's trajectory (this fellow was in-country Vietnam). Having this data burned into the brain can save a soldier's life. He came back with all his body parts intact; which is a good thing, right!

    Tracers that begin to light-up at distance are better than those that can give the enemy an idea of your position. During practice conditions, civvie land, NEVER use tracer ammo when in dry weather. Do I even have to say that?! Don't be stupid and start a forest or prairie fire, for god's sake! Let the black clouds thoroughly soak all plant life and the earth before touching-off tracers or incendiary rounds! If the conditions are not right, then use your brain and don't even use that sort of ammo.
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  16. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    For preppers / SHTF-home-defence, a 100 yard shot is not a far shot. Buckshot out at 100 yrds is losing its effectiveness -- the pellets are truly spreading-out and losing their velocity.

    Plain old lever-action deer rifles are in their happy place at 100 to 200 yards. Bolt-action deer rifles further yet.

    If there are hordes of aggressors post-SHTF, do NOT let them get within shotgun range. Give them religion at distance. These Antifa pretend soldiers are not turned into real soldiers just because they have "assault rifles". Some idiot spraying and praying with his "assault" rifle is a dead idiot if he goes up against an experienced deer hunter carrying only his papaw's lever 30-30. Aimed fire with a reasonably accurate deer rifle is BIG TROUBLE for unprepared/non-disciplined aggressors. A disciplined shooter is a force to be reckoned with if there is a decent rifle in their hands.

    To new preppers: Everything you see on TV and the movies as regards firefights is total B.S..

    People who imagine that they are prepping using paintball guns are going to be dead meat when it hits the fan. I practice at 25 and 50 yards with my accurate handguns. Seven yards is your rapid-fire distance for a handgun. To a trained marksman, a human being is an enormous target -- especially if he's armed with a .357 mag with adjustable sights. For fun, I bust 2-liter bottles (frozen water bottles) at 50 yards with my accurate handguns. Watching them explode is a 100% grin-maker.

    Become one with your firearm! Make your firearm(s) a part of your brain's body-image. That takes range-time. Practice or you'll be sorry when it hits the fan. This is just the nasty truth of it all. In chaotic situations, humans can become saints or demons straight out of hell -- there is no way to know which way they'll go. Some will freeze or panic; those behaviors spell death.
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  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    If you want buckshot to spread rapidly, use a rifled barrel on your shotgun. Rifled barrels are for shooting slugs out of a shotgun -- usually this is for deer. However, if you fire buckshot through a rifled barrel the shot will spread much more than if you use a smooth-bore barrel.

     
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  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Head shots on pigs using .22 lr





     
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  20. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Lever action rifle is more than adequate for home defense.



    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=multiple+...i=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsCO0XV5rwA

    "Old timey cartridges out of lever actions are obsolete." = Total B.S.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=32-20+lev...i=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32twkXwRrDY

    "Lever action rifles are slow." Enormous LIE!



    Rapid fire pump. These pumps come in .22 lr for small game and .22 magnum for lager game -- a .22 magnum has 9mm handgun energy levels and does a tremendous amount of tissue damage.



    As anarchists take to the streets and demand that honest homeowners abandon their homes, you do NOT need an "assault rifle" to protect your family. Pump shotguns and lever action rifles are totally adequate.

    A rifle will allow you to "reach out there" beyond 1oo yards (even 200+ yards). The 12 ga pump will allow you to defend your family when the looters and arsonists have gotten in-close.
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    44 mag lever action and revolver are next in line. I do love Henry, side loading lever action. Raging Hunter for the revolver, with a pic rail on top. Reach out and touch somebody --- LONG DISTANCE. LOL
     
  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    After many years of feeding and repairing a mini 14 I sold it for a great profit and went old school for my primary survival pair. I really feel comfortable with a 357 mag revolver and a winchester 357 mag carbine. The thing is that lead in the air is meaningless. all that counts is the bullets that make a hit and at the ranges that I will be dealing with in a heavy forested area I would much prefer that one hit be a 158 grain hollow point than a 55 grain 22 caliber bullet.

    As far as speed I can nail 6 small targets in about the same amout of time with the lever action as with a simiauto. I have more faith in the stopping power of the 357 mag. It was designed to be a stopper and is a killer where the 5.56 is designed to cause casualties...that is what wins wars.
     
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  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I was just looking at a video about a penny shooter and who had the best?!

    Ja!, meinen Mann, Joerg Sprave!

    Thus sprach Jörg:

    Monster 1000 Joule Airgun! 550 fps. arrow shooter



    Slingshot

     
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  24. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  25. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  26. wally

    wally Master Survivalist
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    jorge sprave is one of the most fun channels to watch...
     
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  27. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Note to urban survivalists: When dealing with the horde marching / looting down your streets, it may very well be that you will have to use what firearms you own. Doing so will require that you transition from one action-type to another. Also, one may have to move from rifle to handgun to shotgun -- or, who knows what firearms you must bring to bear against the enemies of civilization. OK, short story, it can be done!!! You don't gotta go out and buy some "assault rifle"! Listen folks. Older technologies worked back then and they work today. The enemies of civilization, the enemies of God, are on the loose and after Western economies tank, it is only going to get more insane.

    If you are thinking that your firearms are obsolete, drop that idea. Ammunition for 9mm handguns and 5.56 NATO may be getting scarce; plus, the prices are heading through the roof. However, "obsolete" calibers may yet be on the shelves of your gun shop. Do NOT discount the effectiveness of these older calibers. They were proven in decades past and that reality holds true even unto today. Learn to use the firearms that were in storage. You may very well be surprised to learn that your "obsolete" caliber is the caliber still available to purchase when "modern" calibers are sold out. Sacred Liberty cares not how it is defended.



    The following video it totally non-realistic. Don't try this at home! I've been a shooter for a half century and SURE CAN'T PULL THIS OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But trust me on this one, I'm a big believer in speed loaders for revolvers. Got a revolver, gotta have speed loaders.



    Wasn't that strange!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 9mm is used in automatic handguns, sure; however, using "moon clips" the 9 can be adapted to revolvers chambered in this auto cartridge. The most efficient snub-nose revolver round is the 9mm auto. So it goes. Don't blame the universe being strange on me! The U.S. Army had revolvers built for the .45 Automatic (this happened at the beginning decades of the 20th century). Half-moon clips were required so that the spent shells could be extracted. Thing is that half-moon clips, full moon clips, and nowadays speed loaders make reloading revolvers much more simple, make the process quick.



    "The old 32-20 is obsolete!" B.S.! No it is not.





    The 32-20 is but one example of "extinct" calibers that are still useful. As the elitists of government seek to annihilate Liberty, know that if you are in the possession of such "old-timey" firearms, you are still well served. Shoot, if worst comes to worst you can reload the brass for these noble cartridges.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reloading+the+32-20

    The 30-40 Krag was/is one very efficient loading.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnBhSm3DXVg

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reloading+the+30-40+krag

    Think that these older cartridges are sissies? Think again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LyJRfVcvn0

    What I am saying here is that in these days of cartridge scarcity and what with god government attempting to crush the souls of citizens to turn them into serfs, if you can still find firearms, both handguns and rifles, that will serve you well here in the 21st century. When the forces of darkness threaten to raid your home, divest you of your personal property to redistribute it to the people who have put forth near-zero effort to better themselves and their families, you will be yet served with firearms, though old, that are still ready to do service.

    Take that "attic rifle" to a gunsmith and see if it can be put to rights! Forget collector value; that puppy can still put meat on the supper table, it can be used to defend your home, it can be used to defend Liberty. I myself am old, but will never give up and simply lie down to die.

    Never give up the fight!
    .
     
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  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    in that case I am very happy I live where I do.
     
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Yep, I'm answering my own self. Why? I found a neat video appertaining.

    Gosh, I just REALLY like this fellow's point of view. "It isn't the rifle. It is the man."

    This guy is a true rifleman at heart.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaQoeEtJtsU

    ==========================

    Keeping firearms from getting dinged, getting rusted:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMNLERkbZ34

    As an oil and rust preventative, I like Birchwood Casey "Barricade".

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=birchwood+casey+barricade&atb=v140-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
    .
     
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  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  31. paul m

    paul m Expert Member
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    Here in the UK I have 12 bore ( gauge) . I also have .22 and .177 air rifle ammo for stealth hunting. That’ll do me.
     
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  32. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I like firearm and air rifles. In the firearm category, I recommend a 22lr, a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun, A semiauto centerfire rifle with a large capacity mag, a centerfire pistol with a decent capacity mag, and a medium to large caliber bolt action rifle. In the air gun world, I prefer a 22 or larger caliber rifle. For shtf, a springer type will work best but I prefer a PCP for energy transfer. My pcp air rifle shoots a 17.5 grain slug and will deliver (if I do my part) 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards.

    As add on to the firearm list would be lever action rifles, shooting pistol caliber rounds, with matching caliber revolver.
     
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  33. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The price of most lever actions have gone up into the stratosphere. Brazil's Rossi Arms produces Model 92 levers in handgun calibers. Some gun dealer just might cut you a deal if you pay in cash or precious metals. I'm gonna buy me one -- know an FFL who'll knock a good percentage off the price. I'm distributing-out some of my firearms and I want to get a new lever in a handgun caliber to replace the collector I'm handing-off. I want a repeating rifle with a bunch of nostalgia going on. It's my responsibility to arm younger men who I know and make sure they have enough ammunition. I've not many years (if that) left to live. These young & healthy pro-Constitution lads can't afford the crazy prices out there. Can't let them be run-over by the trash people.

    Handguns don't mean sh## unless they are accurate and very powerful.

    Too, we all got to get ready for the dollar crash. Gotta turn toilet-paper dollars into something real.

    Henry Arms makes great lever actions, but their prices sure have shot up there.

    https://rossiusa.com/firearms/lever-action-rifles

    I sure you can find some FFL who can beat these full-retail prices.

    upload_2022-1-31_19-22-14.png
     
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  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I am VERY prejudiced in this realm. I'm a total bigot. I'm set in my ways.

    To me, the best survival rifle is the rifle with which you are most competent. I believe that the rifle with which you are most accomplished, with which you have trust, is your BEST choice. Ripping out a whole bunch of lead doesn't mean sh## to me. "One shot, one kill," is THE best way to go.

    Savage arms and Tikka may not be the most expensive rifles, however they do get the job done. Do you need the most expensive scope? What you need is a scope that is so robust that you can drive nails with it AND one with which you perpetually hit your target. Rifles should be tough / robust machines. And YOU must be the source of constant kills.

    https://www.fieldandstream.com/10-most-accurate-factory-hunting-rifles-weve-ever-tested/


    https://thegunzone.com/best-rifles-under-500/

    .
     
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  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    the best rifle, pistol, knife or whatever, is the one you have in your hands at the time you need it, its as simple as that.
    you may have 10 guns but you can only fire one at a time.
     
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  36. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I've been known to hold two semi-auto handguns at the same time and send a lot of lead downrange in a mad minute. That was when I was buying loads of surplus ammo on-the-cheap. Not gonna be doing that again anytime soon.

    Different weapons and different calibers are needed when selecting what is needed for the situation. When it is self-defense, one goes for lethality and high magazine capacities. For the semis, have your spare magazines topped-off and readily accessible. Bad guys travel in packs just like wolves.

    When it comes to hunting for food, there are all manner of greatly varying parameters. When I think of firearms, I think of putting food on the table first. I've only had to lock and load twice when I thought my home was in a break-in situation and only one of those two was a real attempt to get into my home while my family was there. Having a shotgun in one's hands often ways the outcome of a conversation in your favor when discussing deeply important subjects with a would-be aggressor.

    I'm currently living in an area where people are all the time out in their yards screaming and shouting at each other ... during the day, after midnight, whenever; it's aggression aggression aggression. There was a home invasion where the aggressors actually got into the house a quarter mile from our home. Me, I've always got a gun on me at home and NEVER go to the door unarmed. Usually however, minorities vent their aggression on each other. Cross-race aggression is rare and when it does occur, it is usually a robbery -- NOT anger. White folk have a tendency to fight indoors -- at least they keep it to themselves. Blacks go off on each other at grocery stores, malls, their yards, through open car windows, out in the street, ...
    .
     
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  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I lived in a city, man and boy, for 40 years and I know what you mean, city people seem to not be able to live without making noise, maybe they are scared of silence?
    I live in a quiet rural location, its like a ghost town most of the time and quiet? you could hear a pin drop.
    I know which I prefer and its not the noisy place.
     
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  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Yes.

    We here in this area of America's Heartland would be like where you live if everyone were of European origin.

    Where I'm originally from in the South was a Republican stronghold before the Civil War, therefore the owning of slaves was deeply frowned upon. The Underground Railroad got lots of support. During the Civil War, my Southern region was pro-Union and had to be occupied by Confederate forces. There are few black people where I come from, but those who are there are almost all working-class and are solid citizens.

    Where we are living now prior to the Civil war was slavery-central. We hate this place. Will be moving back to my region. Soon.
    .
     
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  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    good for you, my location is 99.9% white Anglo-Saxon and very rural, very quiet and very peaceful, very little crime and what there is is "domestic" in nature (family disagreements mostly), everyone gets on with everyone else and its all very sociable and conservative.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Sounds like the England my dad described to me. During the war, prior to the invasion of continental Europe, England housed masses of foreign troops. Dad said that the people were super nice to American and Canadian troops. Hope you all can keep your lands civilized. Losing what you have would be beyond horrific for everyone, even outside of England.
       
      Old Geezer, Feb 28, 2022
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  40. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I think that you have a misconception about people in the white US versus people in Great Brittian. The thing is that this country is made up of people that were either transported here unwillingly (My familly entered as convict labor into the Georga coloney), they got up and left hoping for a better life elsewhere, or came later for the great economic advantages that the US had for a lot of years. The black people come in two variaties. Most came as slaves and were eventually freed but there were also free blacks even in the south that were slave holders. Understand, slaves were gathered and then sold to slave traders by black people.

    People from this background and heritage are VERY different from the people that stayed home and accepted rule from royalty. Then even inside the US places like Texas were a sort of second filtering and are very much more pugnatious than most of our northern cousins. During the last ressession lots of people came here because our oil industry kept us rolling. Most did NOT stay.

    Lonewolf, even the people in the big cities where I live do a lot of hunting and shooting. When things in those cities go to crap when the power goes off those people are going to come out. Not all of them are nice and to me a lot of them, even if they are nice are stupid. When things get ugly here a lot of us are going to become like junk-yard-dogs. Lonewolf most Americans are by British standards not truely very civilized. I'm going to be 70 next year and I have offered to kick someones stupid ass in the last two years. I would have tried to carry out that threat too if they had not backed off. LOL, I said try because when I am not mad I remember that I'm not nearly as young or strong as I used to be. But I still don't have any backup in me... Americans are unlikly to just sit in the big cities and die peacefully.
     
  41. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    Whilst there "may" be people in the UK who go shooting its mostly of the clay/skeet variety, my BIL got a gun a couple of years ago but he goes to a gun club to shoot as most do, most of the city masses are anti gun and anti hunting, vegetarianism is rising in popularity.
    hunting is strictly licenced , bow hunting is illegal. start waving a gun about and you'll have the Armed Response Unit banging on your door before you know it.
    what I said in my piece is relevant to Britain and only Britain, I have no knowledge or experience of American populations.
     
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  42. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Where I live I have actually seen people in grocery stores with a handgun in a holster on their hip. It is sort of strange that with the massive politheration of guns here that our murder rate by guns is lower than in states with stricter gun control laws.

    I have always carried a gun when I am going someplac that has issues...like most of Houston. As far as the laws, I have always subscribed to the old saying here that it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. When I am carrying a gun nobody ever knows it. The only way someone will see it is when they have threatened me to the point that I am about to defend my life.

    When I was young I would fight with you but I'm too old for that crap now. If you attack me I'm going to back up but if you press the issue I'm going to shoot you...DEAD. That way there is only going to be ONE side to that story.
     
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  43. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    where I live I dont need to wear a gun in a grocery shop, we have just done our monthly big shop (big for us not for other people maybe) and nothing happens or will happen, rural people are very laid back, cant say the same for city stores though, I saw reports of fights over toilet paper and milk during the panic buying pre covid.
     
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  44. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Tex's point is somewhat difficult for people living in other countries to understand.

    I mean, white folk who live hither thither and yon vary in behavior-sets. And, the variance can be WIDE.

    The civilized whites in the USA, especially where the Scots-Irish settled, will take no guff. Push them and you could get busted wide open.

    Of concern to me observing as an American is the goodness of the good people of England living in goodly agricultural regions. Good for them! May God's Grace keep them isolated from the culturally violent people being allowed to invade and usurp the urban regions of England. For now, seems they are staying put. Hurrah.

    The predisposition of people of English heritage is to stay put. By definition, the people invading England and Europe do NOT stay put -- if things go sideways, they move-on to greener pastures. They will do whatever it takes. They have moved from and through war zones in which fuel and transportation were next to impossible to come by. Would they ever do that again? Hmmmm ... my money would be on them doing so.

    Americans of Scots-Irish descent -- with some Native-American and German genetics thrown in -- will react to invaders in a most decidedly different fashion than would many rural British and Continental Europeans. First-off, we are armed. Secondly, we have zero aversion to using our firearms. This is a VERY different situation than our cousins across the Atlantic.

    Thus, when we Americans view what we see to be the potential of rural British or Europeans being visited by unfriendlies in a profoundly unfriendly way, we are moved to recommend to our genetic cousins to make ready for such an event ... no matter how unlikely it is that they perceive such unholy events to occur.

    Do forgive.

    Understand that we have experienced that which people do not expect ... and in a violent fashion experienced such. Why do we prep for the attack of aggressors? We've seen it happen to friends and many of us have had it happen to us. It is impossible for us to understand why it is impossible for violent misfortune to happen to others. Thus we beg, get ready to fight with lethal weaponry; gather your ammunition. The impossible is possible. History is a deeply saddening read.
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  45. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Old Geezer's above post makes me remember something U.S. prisoners have been known to do . That is the disarmed making a weapon with nothing but a bullet . I believe the weapon that comes to mind is a zip gun . This is something along the lines of a stretched rubber band on something similar to a crossbow that strikes a firing pin that is positioned behind a bullet sending the projectile on its way to the target . However a draw back to this device is the blow back from the ignited gunpowder . Unless the blowback is diverted it might do more damage to the shooter than the intended target .--- Another fun thing that can be done with a bullet is placing it in a hollow object slightly shorter than the bullet , and with the hollow object buried in a vertical position and resting on something solid such as a board .You want the bullet resting on a firing pin and with a little of the bullet above ground . The object is to have a looter or invader step on the bullet point , driving it down on the firing pin . When the bullet fires it will likely go through and up the leg and parts above . -- If controllers of this forum think this is too much information , or simply too barbaric let me know and I will delete it or they can .
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  46. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  47. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The point is NOT that he NEEDED a gun, rather it is that he had the RIGHT to carry one if he wanted to. The second amendment offers the RIGHT to have guns . In Texas that right carries on to your ACTUAL RIGHT to bear arms if you so wish. There are places where you don't like schools, places that serve alcohol, and in courthouses but in most public places its your RIGHT.

    All BS aside a gun in your gun cabinit at home is useless if you are not at home and know in advance that you are going to need it. If I am carrying I carry it almost everywhere I go. I prefer an in pants holster that is unseen though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  48. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    ...... continued from above post:

    In this video we're exploring how to grow crystals of potassium nitrate, right in the comfort of your kitchen. This is an ammonium nitrate secret many people DON'T want you to know about. Jk. But it's a totally awesome homemade gunpowder project and you should try it.

    Uses stump remover. A lot of products have enough potassium in them with which to make gunpowder.



    -----------------------------------------

    Here's another video:



    -----------------------------------

    Here's some videos on how to make ammunition primers, how to manufacture the priming compounds, and how to reload spent primers. Uses things like ground glass and match heads. I've been seeing strike-anywhere matches coming back on store shelves.

    ---------------------------------------

    Videos on making bullets and shot out of wheel weights.

    ---------------------------------

    I had a friend from the Punjab. When he was a boy, he and his friends would watch an old man use a homemade shotgun and homemade shotgun ammo. The lead came from wheel weights. He'd roll small pieces of lead using his hand, rolling them on flat rocks. Sometimes he would get his game and sometimes the old contraption would just go BLOOOOOP!!!!

    ----------------------------

    Potassium / potash

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash

    -------------------------------------------

    extracting sulfur out of pyrite

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=extracting+sulfur+out+of+pyrite

    Ordering sulfur powder online

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sulfur+powder+for+sale&t=newext&atb=v1-1&iax=shopping&ia=shopping

    Hardware store / gardening stores
    upload_2022-3-2_16-32-0.png upload_2022-3-2_16-34-2.png
    =================================

    Really good charcoal at hobby shops

    https://www.hobbylobby.com/Art-Supp...arcoals/Compressed-Charcoal-Powder/p/80746481

    For your chickens:

    https://www.hobbyfarms.com/charcoal-for-chickens/

    Make your own charcoal

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=make+your+own+quality+charcoal


    .
     
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  49. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    We made our own gun powder for making MAGNUM firecrackers when I was a kid about 12 years old.

    You know how you probably launched small tin cans with firecrackers...We launched metal garbage cans.
     
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  50. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Also, whatever one's country, those in power must never deny you your intrinsic rights as a human being. Government in bully mode is invalid and the dictates of such a government are invalid. England comes to mind, as does Australia, Canada, most European countries, ...

    If one is barred from having human Liberty, then cheat.

    Do what you need to do. It's not just you being castrated, it is the entire community.

    If you can't fight back, the "right" to vote means absolutely nothing. The USSR dictated that their people vote. The candidates were all communists, of course. "Might makes right."
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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