A Place For Air Guns???

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by jeager, May 12, 2017.

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  1. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I have been shooting/hunting with air guns for several years.
    I'm a fairly serious air gunner but for small game only and target practice.
    There are higher powered air guns and people have taken large game with them but I
    consider such more a stunt for air gun promotion than anything else.
    For small game under 50 yards and with kill shots air guns are quite effective.
    "Kill shots" means brain or heart shots.
    These air guns are powerful but not the equal to a .22 long rifle round.
    I've never seen or even heard of a shortage of .22 air gun pellets.
    .22 pellets can be had for about 0.014 cents a round compared to and average of 0.07 cents
    for .22 l.r. ammo.
    Air guns are much more quiet also.
    An effective air gun should achieve a muzzle velocity of no less than 600 feet per second. (f.p.s.)
    Accuracy should be at least 0.05" at 20 yards. That is very easy to achieve with a quality a.g. (air gun)
    For target work + hunting small game I'd recommend a side cocking air rifle vs. a break barrel.


    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hammerli_850_AirMagnum/913

    Here ^^^ is an 850 Air Magnum I have coming. It's a co2 powered weapon excellent for target work
    and very small game that is easy to harvest, like rabbits.


    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Diana_52_Air_Rifle/4166/7959


    I have an RWS m-48 similar to this one ^^^^ that is potent enough for all small game.

    I've even taken groundhogs, (wood chucks) with head shots and even feral cats with brainers.

    Just a thought for survivalists that want to get real serious about quiet, back yard, basement,
    even apartment, target practice.
    Much less expensive shooting than even a .22 rim fire round.

    An target pellet trap is:
    not expensive
    easy to make at home
    a good idea.
    Hobby store clay, duct seal, a cardboard box filled with more cardboard, magazines, newspapers, etc,
    serves as a pellet stopper.
    These air guns aren't toys. They will seriously injure or even kill a human.
    Treat as a firearm for safety reasons.

    I believe people in the U.K., maybe in South Africa, need register an air gun.

    Another air guns emporium is:
    http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

    If new to air guns and you are considering an air gun for whatever reason then please READ UP
    on the subject.
    You won't waste time and money or items you might regret buying.
    Wait and investigate.

    As an aside I practice handgun shooting with co2 revolvers indoors.

    I also have this one for harvesting frogs. (check local regulations) ( or do it and don't get caught )

    http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/co2/crosman-2240-co2-pistol/

    Special note: Wear eye protection please. If the back stop won't absorb and catch a b-b or pellet
    it can come right back and smack ya in the face.
    Why I like duct seal or the cardboard box with loose packed newspaper for target practice.
    Let me know your thoughts on air guns please.
     
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  2. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I've been an air gunner most of my life, had several and still have a couple to day.
    we don't have the large animals they have in the States, air rifles are good for any small animal, rabbits, squirrels and any sort of bird.
    they are quiet-er than most firearms and in England they are unlicenced.
    if your going to have one for post SHTF hunting I suggest break barrel only, the ones that rely on compressed air or gas capsules may be useless when these components aren't available, with a break barrel you can cock and shoot all day without any loss in performance.
    not suitable for Deer or Wild Boar which are our largest animals.
     
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  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Excellent article jeager, well done. I totally agree, a good choice for a survival gun providing it is not CO2. I still have my BSA .22 barrel break from when I was a kid in England. I used to hunt wood pigeon for food & for protecting our garden. Unfortunately here in Australia these airguns are classed as firearms & require licence, registration & permit to purchase! I know, ridiculous, but that's what our government is like.
    Keith.
     
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  4. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I agree with the break barrel but add side cocker to that list.
    Same operation but one breaks the barrel to cock, side cocker has lever to cock the spring.
    I like the side lever only because the barrel and receiver are not disconnected during cocking.
    A mute point really as these are short range weapons best used on small game up to 25 yards.
    50 yards is doable with a powerful air gun and scope sight and head shots.
    Really most of the small game I harvest is under 25 yards.
    Air guns make little noise and less like to scare off other small game.
    Just my not very humble opinion.
    As always "you get what you pay for" rings true.
    http://www.pyramydair.com/
    http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

    Just two of many air gun sites.
    google for many more.
    As always read before you buy and get all the info you need prior to spending hard earned butts.................
    er, ah, I mean bucks!:eek:

    If one has a .22 rim fire rifle and does not want to invest in a quality air gun
    consider sub sonic hollow point ammo for quiet shooting and acceptable
    25 to 30 yard accuracy.
    Some land owners won't allow hunting with a firearm but when I mention I use
    a "pellet rifle" they often let me hunt.
     
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  5. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    If I had a choice of air rifle, & would have one of the WW2 period .22 BSA under-cocking lever. I used one when I was a kid, & with open sights & dropped a wood pigeon from the top of a huge cypress tree. They have a short stock & are quite heavy, but I loved that rifle.
    Keith.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
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  6. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    NICE!
     
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  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    One man's opinion: Big thumb's up for air rifles. The .17 cal., medium power, with high accuracy for perched birds and squirrels no longer afraid of humans. The .22 cal. air, heavier pellets for rabbits and other little critters a bit further out there. Air rifles will provide you stew meat. And squirrel gravy sure can taste great.

    Aguila super colibri is a .22 lr with a tiny amount of powder (700 ft/sec w/20gr bullet). Aguila colibri has no powder, just primer (circa 450 ft/sec w/20gr bullet). These compete with air rifles in the silent realm (no suppressor needed; no earplugs needed, you can hear the firing pin hit the case rim). Note that these have poor accuracy at distance, however at 20 ft (and not much more) the super calibri will group around 1" -- this with a Remington bolt, 22" barrel, aperture sights. Danger, the primer ammo with no powder can stick in the barrel of a .22 should that barrel be too long! This is "here to there" ammo. Note also that the Aguila 60 gr "sniper" ammo will keyhole in some rifles -- if the twist rate of its rifling isn't right, then no stabilization. Try a box of the latter in a few of your .22 rifles and see if any of the rifles do well with such -- if so, only then go out and by a brick(s).




     
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  8. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Good post ol' geezer.
    The long bullet of the 60 grainer always key holed and wasn't accurate in any of my .22 rifles.
    Some might find it works well enough I guess.

    My survival, prepping goal of 50,000 rounds of .22 r.f. ammo is a ways off yet.

    https://www.ammograb.com/

    ^^ a good place to find least expensive ammo at real time prices.

    Many at 5 cent per round. I can't beat that at Walmart.

    I just ordered a case of 5,000 rounds from https://www.targetsportsusa.com/agu...ain-standard-velocity-sp-1b222332-p-3435.aspx

    I have at least 15,000 rounds of various .22 r.f. ammo now but another
    5,000 has a certain "feel good" quality.


    My goal is 50,000 rounds of .22 r.f. ammo. The most useful ammo a survivalist
    prepper can have.
    I'm in good shape on .22 r.f. rifles...........and handguns, and rifles of more substantial
    calibers.

    I have soooo many documents attesting to firearms training schools that I've thought
    about teaching basic defensive handgun shooting for those that have enough sense
    to buy a firearm for self defense.
    BUT! The liability insurance is outrageous.

    Snowflakes don't own firearms and are better off without them.
    They don't prep either.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    I know where you are coming from. However, 50K ?! Wow. I was on my high school rifle team and have loved going plinking all of my life (decades and decades, well scores and ...). I've had certifications in handgun and rifle instruction. Therefore, I passed the 50K mark back when. But it took a lifetime, buddy! Let me tell you, 10K of .22 ammo is HEAVY. Right? You know this.

    Lead oxide can gather on old lead bullets. Use denim to rub this off (gonna take time!). Some folk use case lube to re-lube the bullets. Unlubed bullets can lead your barrel bore like nobody's business.

    That said, me, I think you're smart for a reason past just thinking about usage. In the not-too-distant future, .22 ammo will be money, currency, one of THE bartering items to have. All ammo calibers will have bartering value; however, pray tell, what other caliber is more universal than .22 rimfire?! None. Rounds of .22 lr will become the "dollar bills". Maybe .357 rounds will be your five dollar bills; 30-30 ammo ...

    Western fiat currencies will all fall. Who knows how quickly, but paper money is doomed -- especially when it is backed by thin air. Debt-based "money" = fool's gold.

    Silver conducts electrical current like mad at room temperature (all integrated circuits utilize silver wiring internally). Silver also is good at preventing the growth of bacteria colonies and algae, thus is used in a lot of medical equipment and water filtration systems have silver internal linings. Gold does not tarnish and is thus used in all electronics contact points. And, AMMUNITION IS AMMUNITION!!! Like food and water, some things are what they are, they possess intrinsic value.

    So, God's speed in your attaining the Holy Grail of ammo acquisition.
     
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  10. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    50,000 rounds is a goal but I don't have to get there.
    I have 15,000 now.
    I have a long way to go.
    As far as keeping ammo safe from the elements I have vacuum packed ammo.
    Like one vacuum packs dry food for safe and long storage.
    Samo with strike anywhere matches.
    Vacuum pack the entire box.
    The box will crush of course so be careful not to ignite the box of matches.
    I doubt it would happen but it could I suppose.

    It's hard to manage all I want on a disability income.
    Still $5 grand a month net is o.k. if one is frugal.
    I might have to get a part time job.
    JOB!?
    O.M.G. the horrors........................................:eek::eek::eek:
     
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  11. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Stopped my Wally world to get some night crawlers for bait and bought MORE .22 r.f. ammo.

    Standard velocity and sub sonic CCI Quiet ammo.
    Almost never see standard velocity and CCI Quiet ammo in Wally.

    I use the Quiet CCI for indoor plinking and shooting frogs at night in my fiance's 3 acre "pond".
    Don't tell her but that pond is why I'm with her.:p:p:p

    (not really but it helps)

    The pond teems with large mouth bass, bluegills that are often 12" long or more and catfish.

    Sadly they don't always bite. They are feeding on 2" bluegill right now and feasting.

    Yes I'm using the bluegill for bait.

    I have only to put up with her daughter, 42, who is crazy as an outhouse mouse.
    Schizophrenic ya know.:confused::confused:

    Neither are in my prepping plans.

    We have snapping turtle lines set also.
     
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  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    "We have snapping turtle lines set also."

    Watch out! Them thar critters git BIG and kin twist they head 'round an' grab a'holt uv yore fingers!

    I don't know anything about catching snapping turtles, nor anything about how to get the meat out one. I just avoid them, royal.
     
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  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Just remembered, knew a guy with a huge fish pond. He used to feed them with coffee-can-fuls of cheap dog food. Throw a fistful in and it was like watching piranha feeding in some horror flick.

    Bingo! Just found a video of such:


    Now, them's some big ol' catfish!
     
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  14. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Avoiding snapping turtles isn't a bad idea.
    Them suckers BITE and won't let go!

    Cleaning one is a stinkin' messy job and not something I even want to do.
    But! In a shtf situation it's better than going hungry.
     
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  15. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    Snapping turtle are good to eat cut the head off turn on his back use a jig saw cut the shell on the side where the top and bottom meet then use your pocket knife to cut the skin and take the top off pull the legs out cut off
     
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  16. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Indeed they are good to eat.
    I detest cleaning them however.
    When I do I hang upside down, (the turtle) very careful to avoid those jaws, decapitate
    and leave hung to bleed out as must as possible.
    Turtle soup is a delight.
     
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  17. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Expert Member
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    IMHO everyone is well advised to have an air gun or two in their home arsenal. They are inexpensive. Require no license or permit. Ammo is dirt cheap, and plentiful. They are a good way to teach young or inexperienced shooters how to shoot safely, and properly. Very little if any recoil. Start with an air gun, and work your way, or qualify your way up, to larger calibers. Very effective on small game or birds. Why would you not have one?
     
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  18. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I would add the pump up air rifles like the old Sheridan or Benjamins to the list as well as the break barrel and under lever models. The pump up rifles may take a little longer to prime but they don't have that little jump from the spring uncoiling so they're a little more accurate...I love them.
     
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  19. anon.amus

    anon.amus Well-Known Member
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    plus they have .50 cal! 09-09-14-01-pellets-and-bullets.jpg
     
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  20. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I still have my old BSA .22 from when I was a kid.
    Keith.
     
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  21. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have a half dozen or so air guns. In a bind I am sure that I could feed me and mine with my Crossman 1377 pump up pellet pistol. It is wicked accurate and will also shoot BBs. That is all that I need for rats and small birds.
     
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  22. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    You guys in the US are really lucky, our air rifles are restricted to 12foot/lbs muzzle energy. for some reason you seem to get all the best toys.
     
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  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    they will still take small game, for a small group that is perfectly adequate.
     
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  24. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Yes indeed, and they will do it quietly aswell...
     
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  25. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I bought another BB/pellet gun the other day. I decided that wanted one that while it would shoot BBs was capable of 1000fps with alloy pellets.

    https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-CLGY...549316584&sr=8-7&keywords=crossman+pellet+gun

    I like the pump type for BB guns. They offer you a choice for velocity. I had one that was similar to this many years ago and it was a killer out to about 20 meters and accurate enough that I used it to hunt mice. While it isn't as accurate as my spring piston pellet gun it is plenty accurate for birds and small critters. The thing is that with a few spare parts, some pellet gun oil and thousands of BBs it offers a lot of practice and the handling of this is about like a 22 rifle.

    It was on sale and I got it for under 40 bucks. The one that I had before lasted for about 10 years. I like the fact that I can shoot it any where and not have to worry about over penetration. My pellet rifle give somewhere around 1200 FPS with lead pellets and that is a bit much for shooting indoors or in a small yard. I remember with the other one that I had that my snap shooting with my little Winchester 22lr went way up when I was shooting this all the time in my back yard. I don't like scopes all that much and for survival they can too easily be damaged leaving you with nothing. I refuse to buy a gun that doesn't have iron sights.
     
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  26. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    They have a strong gun lobby & we do not!
    Keith.
     
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  27. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Strangely it was the British manufacturers like Webley and BSA who caused the restriction to 12f/lbs (originally it was meant to be 10.5 with an additional 1.5 added for a margin of error)
    It was done in an effort to prevent foreign manufacturers importing far better air guns from Germany and the US. Many BSA or Webley rifles of that period barely managed 10f/lbs and while very accurate could not compete when it came to power.
    The British companies has done little or no research and development since the 1930's and had stagnated while companies like Diana had raced ahead so rather than be put out of business the British companies lobbied the government to bring in anti competative legislation.
     
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  28. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    A strange negative attitude for British manufacturing! On the other hand, the UK being what it is in regards to firearms, with high power air rifles they may have been re-classified or banned eventually. There is a power restriction over here too!!!
    Keith.
     
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Whilst on the topic of small game:

    One of the major concerns of survivalists is post-SHTF elephant infestation. What to do?!

    "Here it is, the ONLY 3 1/2″ sabot shotgun slug on the market! The Lighfield Commander IDS Plus was designed as the largest high velocity, extremely stable, extended range Sabot Slug for use in modern rifled or smooth bore barrel shotguns for very large game. The IDS 3 1/2″ Commander incorporates a 1 3/8 oz (600 grain) 73 caliber slug producing a whopping 4759 ft/lbs at the barrel ... ."

    https://www.tarhunt.com/product/lightfield-commander-ids-plus-3-12″-12-ga/

    Is there any noticeable recoil with this round? Well yes. Yes there is.





    Does this ammo kill animals quickly, devastatingly so . Yes.

    https://www.bing.com/video/search?q...B0405B61E611F902F4EAB0405B61E611&&FORM=VRDGAR

    https://www.bing.com/video/search?q...9079F016545F097DA8D99079F016545F&&FORM=VDRVRV

    And then there's the tried and true 10 ga slugs

     
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