A Return Of Polygamy?

Discussion in 'Ladies Section' started by CivilDefense, Jun 5, 2017.

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  1. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Me, I was raised without much, however my kin had been survivors of outright grinding poverty. They didn't see it that way. Their lot was their lot. In their world, you do the best with what's available. They'd never known anything else. Rest assured that when they found anything that made their life easier, they scraped-up and bought it, if possible. And their kids, their kids were going to go as far in education as could be achieved, by God!

    Therefore, I do not see survivalism as anything out of the norm. A coal fire, a kerosene lamp, extra blankets (homemade blankets), patched jeans ... yeah, so what?! If you live something, then it is the norm. There are kids around the world who would be considered very poor by Western standards, who are in fact a whole lot happier than American children.

    Me, I look at spoiled people and to this day can't understand their tunnel vision. I'm old, have studied psych, know what I need to know to understand -- yet I still get a "What the ####?!" reaction inside my soul when I witness the blindness of the people in my world. They are to me an ocean of sleep-walkers.

    A good chunk of me has now gone cold and cynical. Jesus Christ Himself told his disciples that if they brought the Word of God to people and these people rejected such, then they should leave the town of those blind people. I've not looked this up, but I think He said to knock the dirt off their shoes when leaving. OK, so if some Heaven-sent Messenger has that sort of advice, then I get to cop a bit of that also. Life sure has presented me with lots of examples of people who could not / would not save their own selves, so I should absorb that knowledge into myself and incorporate it -- at my age it sure is about time to do so. I'll shun cynicism, however I don't know how anyone could get through this world unsullied by it.
     
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  2. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Survival is a lifestyle. It basically gets into how you look at the world and how you relate to it. I think part of the mental change that most of us have gone through has to do with our world view. We don't see the world as it is right now as being a permanent stable reality.

    Back to the social structure discussion... One of the big reasons that everything seems to be so messed up these days is that our current society is in its infancy. At 65 I am the first generation that has lived in this new world. People that lived before this time had a centuries long structure that had been moulded by the physical realities that they were raised in and lived in. Let's be real, someone that lived in the 1500s could have been jumped into the early 1900s and other than some WOW moments because of a few technological things they wouldn't have too much trouble adapting.

    For millennia most people had lived a mostly rural lifestyle. They grew or raised food or maybe worked in mines or some other sort of job based on gathering natural resources. Towns were mostly merchant and some early manufacturing jobs. Where most people lived though was related to some natural resource. People went to the resources.

    Until the mid 1800s most people were still doing most of the work with manual or animal powered tools with a few water or wind powered mills. Even into the mid 1900s when steam power was taking over most people were still dealing with animal and human powered things.

    The basic human realities were mostly unchanged for centuries. People lived, had children got sick and died. That was just the way life was and you had very little control over any of this. Other than celibacy people were going to have kids whether they wanted them or not. Anyone could be struck down at any time by any of thousands of things that were out there in the microscopic world. Most of the causes of death in 1900 are not even around now!!

    Medical and Medical Science starting around the middle of the 1900s flipped the world upside down. Child mortality rates plummeted, most of the big biological killers were suddenly wiped out and women were suddenly freed from the absolute necessity of having children willy nilly.

    Think about it, Smallpox, Yellow Fever, Polio, Syphilis, Pneumonia, Sepsis, Measles, Mumps, Whooping Cough, Malaria, Tuberculosis... the list goes on and on and these were things that killed million and they just aren't a big factor now. Some still catch these but very VERY few healthy people actually die from these anymore. It has changed the way people see the world! People now days see this as the way things just are and think that the world is a nice safe place. Nobody starves, nobody dies from the cold or the hot and most of the big killers of healthy peole in the past have been cured.

    Women freed from the bondage of childbirth suddenly could go out and do things that before just weren't possible. Having a career and popping out babies every few years just didn't work. Before the pill women either resisted the urgings of their sex drives or they would have a very sad life. A guy could have some fun and then move on while the poor woman had to deal with the reality of biology!

    Over the centuries women trained their little girls on how to avoid the pitfalls of unwanted pregnancies and men's sexual needs. For one thing in the past young women were not allowed to be alone with males. Chaperones were real and everywhere. Women were taught not to overly encourage men and to make them work hard to get the attentions of the ladies they pursued. This was to make sure that a male that was paying court to them was interested in more than just a roll in the hay.

    Suddenly all of this went out the door. Women could do anything that they wanted to do with almost no repercussions or concerns. All they had to do was have enough basic intelligence to take a pill and it was party time!! Not only that but if they wanted to pursue a career they could do it now. The problem was that these girls had been raised by people that had no idea of how to raise a kid to live in this new fast changing world and most of the old rules and attitudes didn't work any more.

    I was raised with certain rules that were basically pounded into me by the society that I was raised in. The women of my age were raised in that same world. A man's word was his bond and a man without honor wasn't worth anything. A man kept his word BUT a woman could always change her mind. A man that cried was a crybaby and subject to ridicule. A woman used tears to get their way and this was not only accepted but encouraged.

    Unfortunately when women tried to more into a male dominated business world it just didn't work out well. The same happened when the black people wanted to move into big business they couldn't understand that you can't call everyone a Mother ****** and succeed or wear gang clothes and be dressed for success. SOOOO we changed the rules so THEY could be the winners and now all the companies are moving out of the US because we can't compete. Promotions to management positions where control of the business is involved should be given to the best and most competent not the most diverse minority available. It is a sad ending to a great country.
     
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  3. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Sad TexDanm..but you got me to laughing here....over what happened this afternoon while waiting for my truck to be inspected.

    Sitting in the lobby I was reading a National Geographic and the television was on some program called...."Wendy Williams." I have no idea who this woman is as I don't watch her program or any of such genre...Oprah included.

    But the nonsense she was promoting on her program was so obviously for the overly emotional and self indulgent...so much of it about what the stars were or were not doing ..dressing....what they liked et al.

    None of it did I find appealing or interesting. It was so obviously to an idle female audience. Ishmaelite airheads..self indulgent....even Tabloid like.

    My overall reaction is that this nation is in trouble...This is the new Presidential material.


    But your point about how to dress and or present ones self verbally is correct. The woman I see, as an apartment manager, has told me this often about the women she has interviewed for jobs. They often dress as if they were going out clubbing ...and they are not motivated nor have the needed language capabilities....much less an attention span.

    She has told me that she goes through a lot of applications before she does interviews and then most of the interviews are scratched off the consideration list. She knows quickly in an interview if someone is good management material or has the ability to learn.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris.
     
  4. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    My daughter is the Superintendent of solid waste of a medium sized town that has a big University. She used to accept Interns from the University that would work for the experience and university credit. These are kids that are Juniors in school hopefully heading towards a degree in business. Just to be clear my daughter runs the garbage pick up and disposal for a town with something like 50,000 people. These kids show up dressed in every manner from several females that looked like they would look in place on a street corner with hookers to male with 6" of underwear showing above their sagging pants.

    There have been a few that seemed to be together but most were totally useless and were worth exactly what they were getting paid...nothing. Many of them weren't even THAT good and didn't last a week. It is a busy place and there just isn't a place for someone that refuses to listen or do anything. Last year she gave up and no longer accepts interns. She can't believe that these kids are just a year or two from graduation and then will be going out trying to find work. She has a 7 year old with almost as much maturity and common sense as a lot of these kids.

    In my opinion a schools primary job should be to educate and prepare the students to take the acquired knowledge out and successfully apply it in the REAL world. The fact is that these days most Universities are handicapping the kids with tons of useless things and false beliefs that when they attempt to apply makes them look like idiots.

    Liberals run the Universities but when you actually go someplace where people WORK you don't find much in the way of the touchy feely stuff. They expect these kids to shut up and go to work and aren't interested in a lot of opinions about things that these kids basically know nothing about. Trying to get an educated idiot to go to work offends their feelings of self importance and their little egos are crushed. It's really sad...for them and everyone else...
     
  5. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Excellent points TexDanm,


    I have been waiting for the Trump Administration to make real changes in the public school system but it looks like little will change.

    What I am suspecting is that deep down ..there are more liberals and Marxist Lefties in the school system and the vendors which serve them..write the books ...than are in Washington DC. They are so entrenched..that there needs to be a block diagram...you know..like an electrical block diagram/flow chart...to locate them or at least outline the pattern.

    I also believe that someone out here in a position of influence does not want Americans to be savvy sufficient to think for themselves and away from the "Herd" in which the body politic desire to put them. Away from a television and movie education....a herd education.

    Ishmaelites....seeking to keep people in bondage...political/social bondage and thus also herd their vote..


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
  6. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I have maybe missed the obvious but I fail to see what these posts although very interesting in themselves have anything to do with polygamy, or whatever that has to do with prepping.
     
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  7. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Changes in social and cultural structures can NOT be studied and understood by just looking at one single part. Just like you could never describe an elephant if all that you had ever seen or heard of them was their tail. All of this is part of a whole. Polygamy is coming back because monogamy is no longer working for a LOT of people and families. With both parents working NOBODY is raising the kids and that is not working out very well. Also with divorce rates going way over 50% and so many people having kids out of wedlock, there is a real need for something new that will address the problems we see. I know, most of us old farts would like things to go back to the way things were but THAY IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

    Monogamy stopped working when people stopped caring about their kids enough to stay together until they were raised. Hell nowadays a lot of them were never there except for a couple of nights. Kids need a stable nurturing environment. If it takes more than two people to get it done then we need to go there. The fact is that monogamy never really was just a man and a woman with kids. For centuries it was big multigenerational families that all worked together to raise the kids. Nowadays Grandparents are seen at holidays and Aunts and Uncles are not a big part in a kids life. That is not the way it works.

    Polygamy is just ONE of many different sorts of family structures that people have tried. It has been forced by Christian interference with political things that are not supposed to happen. We need to get religion out of the law. It was NEVER supposed to be there, to begin with. Personally, if a man can live with several women running his life more power to him!! I have one wife. 45 years and I wouldn't take a billion dollars for her and the life that we have shared BUT OMG I wouldn't want more just like her.

    To see the problem we need to look at the entire culture and REALIZE that it is GOING to change.
     
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    IMHO --- Men that want more than one wife are masochistic.
     
  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    one woman at a time is more than enough for me.
     
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  10. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Legendary Survivalist
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    My sentiments exactly. I have a hard enough time dealing with one wife. I can't fathom multiplying that.
     
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  11. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Read...

    "Why Men Are The Way They Are"

    By Warren Farrell.

    https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Are-Way-They/dp/0989293114


    Interesting things in there on polygamous cultures as well.


    Agree.....one woman is more than enough....for me.

    More than one woman under a roof is a definition of chaos.

    Women tend to be primordially competitive...versus men who tend towards working together...towards a goal.


    Peace is the valuable commodity a good woman brings to a man.....not Piece.


    Competitive Chaos is not Peace...but Ishmael


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    The problem I have with it , in some such group environments some old geezer in order to have several women to himself has to run the younger males off . After all about half the population is one sex or the other . This leads to abuse of young males and marriage to young and often underage girls . If there was a male shortage such as many being killed for any reason , then I would have no problem with someone marrying as many mature women as they thought they could handle .
     
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  13. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    LOL LOL LOL.....sorry Poltiergist..but this is just plain dumb....really dumb.


    Like some young fellow cannot possibly figure this out ..how to develop a harem.????

    I'm not sure some of you understand the concept of the "P" word....what the "P" word is....????


    "Potential"....and the confidence behind it.

    Confidence is what attracts many many women and females....in good times or bad....

    And Confidence means the "P" word...potential.

    And believe you me....a female/woman can spot this out ....in a Male....quickly.

    In a SHTF situation the males with the "P" word are going to stand out...and the females are going to notice quickly....in particular a female with children...and competition is going to be fierce....not Peaceful.

    Males without the "P" word are going to stand out as well...by their solitude...lack of females.


    In a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI....competition for the males with the "P" Word is going to be fierce.
    I suspect that a number of women who have males without the "P" word...will leave for males with the "P" word.


    Remember this if an Olde Man has most of the women.....

    Sorry but it is funny....to me......and textbook of male thinking...
    You are trying to limit yourself by describing male competition....you might want to think it through from the female competitive side as well..particularly women with children...and their quest to survive.

    The male out here is not necessarily the hunter gatherer....for which he thinks he is.


    You might want to do some research in history of males in the Death Occupations..verses women or females in the death occupations....good times or bad times.

    I will remind you of another thing as well....

    In SHTF or TEOTWAWKI....females and women with the real "P" word are going to be a very rare and valuable commodity as well....versus maintenance costs....of themselves and children.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  14. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Survey says: The number one item women look for in a man----- Wait for it------ Security!!!
     
  15. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    I believe TexDanm presents the most accurate assessment of the US polygamy matter.

    Two matters should be added to the overall thread:

    1. Consenting adults are usually allowed to cohabitate.

    2. The current US situation still has the legal requirement not to be a bigamist. Thus, we see a man with one wife and all the rest are single women with no income and no assets. They max out the welfare programs. When all of the checks are pooled and economies of scale kick in: it's a return to the extended family.

    The threads' other posts are some of the milestones of the evolution of "marriage".
     
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  16. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    If available on the web, w/o costs, see if NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC Magazine's February, 2010 issue is around.

    They have a lead article titled "Polygamy in America - One Man, Five Wives, 46 Children".

    Foot Note: All this stuff started well prior to inventory control software.
     
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  17. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Basically, marriage is a religious rite and the government was never supposed to rule or make laws concerning religious matters. What we need now is for people to enter into domestic contracts that will give them both the rights to live as they please while also making sure that the responsibilities of that contract are enforceable. All that making polygamy illegal does is it allows a man to still have as many women as he can talk into having a relationship with and let everyone else pay for his play. a polygamist has several wives that he enters into an agreement with for their mutual support and the support of their dependent children. Instead of that we have Baby Daddies and Baby Mamas and end up with all of the children living in poverty.

    People make a big deal out of polygamy but that is just ONE of many alternative ways that families can be organized. I actually know a couple of polyandrous groups. that is where a woman has more than one husband. In one the men are best friends that both work offshore tow weeks out and two in. they have one house and share a wife. She is never alone and the men have all the comforts of a stable home life when they are in.

    I have witnesses serial or group marriages. The Vietnamese will buy a house and there may be several brothers with wives and kids all living in it together. they are not doing it because they can't afford better they are getting rich by pooling their resources and minimizing expenses. It isn't unusual for some Middle Eastern people to have generational families with several generations living together. The point is that in all of those case the children have a stable home and real parents that raise them.

    Lot's of women want careers. Lots of women want security and to be able to stay home and raise the kids. A group marriage of any sort can allow everyone to have what they want and have the children well taken care of. As long as all involved are of legal age and consenting it shouldn't be anyone business but theirs. Draw up a domestic contract so everyone's rights are laid out and protected and move on. If you think this is a sin then you don't have to do it BUT you have no right to force your religious belief on others.
     
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  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Women do not share.

    Next issue, please ...
     
  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Old Geezer,

    Saw above post this AM.

    Ref "Women do not share.", what is statement in response to ?

    Admittedly, got lost in following entire thread.

    The women "share" in the overall benefit of the arrangement is my inference but do ask for your clarification.
     
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  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Women share better than most men. Males are territorial by nature.
     
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  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Folk were talking polygamy. Talking about having multiple wives.

    May be some fellow's fantasy, however this is most assuredly NOT in keeping with human nature.

    In Islam, a man should provide a roof for each wife. Two women will fight if expected to share a roof or a hearth. There will be no peace. No unity will come of it.

    “… marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if you fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one…” Surat al-Nisaa’ in ayah 3

    The first wife is always heartbroken when a second wife enters the family. This even though the Koran demands of a man to fully meet all of the needs of his first wife and cling to her with ongoing love. So many men in that era were killed in battle that there was a surplus of women, a dearth of men. Muhammad did not marry again until his first wife had passed from this world into the hands of God. Those women he married were war widows and those arranged due to political alliances. He wanted it to be known that war widows were people who had great honor -- they were not to be treated as some used chattel. Remember that he was dealing with unbelievably savage men and trying to make them into civilized men.

    Therefore, even in the most extreme circumstances, having multiple wives and keeping the peace within such circumstances is near impossible. In this day and age, so long as there is no horrific shortage of men, we should practice monogamy.

    You are a cad if you do not consider the happiness of women. God will most assuredly be unhappy with you.
     
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  22. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good evening Old Geezer,

    Appreciate your perspective.

    My contrary view is that - human nature - ie pre-civilization, did not have the concept of "marriage".

    In olden times, circa the referenced Suret al-Nisas, the wives were frequently dying from complications of pregnancy, childbirth and all the related situations. Thus, the allowance for 12 wives...later reduced to 4.

    The Islamic doctrine derived from the earlier established Christian and Jewish practices. From my guess, much throughout the region was not standardized and the transitions to different arrangements were over many generations.

    Currently, it's less about partners becoming husbands and more so about revenue-producing jobs.

    ...

    Just saw some of my related notes; In olden Judaism, incest was allowed until the exile, war brides were allowed. Imagine today, adding war brides to the revival of booty and prize. The US would be one big catering house for weddings - to include the spiral stairway for the pictures.

    ...

    My basic book for above subject is "A History of the Jews" by Paul Johnson, 1987

    Foot Note: The wife's well-being is relatively new in the scheme. Prior to our current "romantic marriage" (actually "psychological marriage"), there was the "arranged marriage". The modifications continue.
     
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  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Familly and its structures change to reflect the necessities of the life the people in a culture are living. In cultures that spend a lot of time at war or where the lives of the males are often cut short need the productivity of the women of childbearing age. Tribes or clans that lost too many men had to replace them. Polygamy was survival for them.

    While men had shorter lives in cultures with lots of fighting and hunting and dealing with big mean animals as soon as the hunter gatherers moved into farming and herding this trend reversed. In the middle peaceful times when things were good and food was plentiful this changed. Men started having longer average lives than the women. Plenty of food and peace was great for the men but the women were having children at a hell of a pace. this sort of thing takes a toll on women and lots died in childbirth and from infections caused by unsanitary practices in the birthing process. During this time men married later in life and women married younger. some men lost several wives to birth-related problems.

    There are the cultural rules and then there is the REALITY and that isn't always the same thing. Men that could afford it might now have but one wife but that didn't mean that they only had one woman. It was an accepted practice, though not talked about, for a man to have a woman on the side. his wife knew about it too. I had an Uncle that actually had two families. After his wife who he adored nearly died in childbirth of their third child, he took a mistress and built her a house on the other side of his 500-acre farm. They had two children and basically, it was all one big family. In the times before WW2, this was not really uncommon.

    Reliable birth control is changing everything. My generation is the first that hasn't had to deal with the endless reproductive necessities. I honestly don't know what things will be like in another generation or two. monogamous marriage isn't working very well now. Divorces are more common than marriages and single parent families are growing more an more common.

    On a humorous side note, women actually do share pretty well. When you work in retirement communities as much as I used to you learn a LOT. Let me tell you a 60-year-old widow man in good shape in a retirement community can have all the female attention that he can stand!! It is WILD! I had an 80year old customer that had a freaking HAREM. A different lady cooked for him every day and he was living HIGH! I had another customer that was basically blind that lived in a retirement area and he was the same way he was only about 50 and had ladies two or three at a time partying with him. He bought a sports car so his ladies could drive him around.

    Appliance repairmen are a lot like bartenders. they hear a lot and know a lot that is normally not for public distribution. We may want to act like monogomyis the way things are done but it is getting rae as hell. I know a lot of people even my age that have been shacked up for decades without getting married. Then you have all the variious gay couples and the ones that are just people that live together for mutual support. Old farts like me that married once are rare as hell these days so you have all the his, hers and their families. things are changing like it or not.
     
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