Are you preparing for a nuclear exchange?

The title kind of says it; are you preparing for a limited or full nuclear exchange between the world powers? How much so? What type of preparations have you made specific to this threat?

Thanks for sharing.

P.S. Personally, our household does, if for no other reason that it sets the bar very high in terms of preps. We do have some nuclear-specific equipment (e.g., radiation detectors, dosimeters, faraday cage, etc.) and we, deliberately, chose to make our homestead away from any primary, secondary, or tertiary target.

 

I wouldn't say I prepare for a nuclear exchange but I do think it's a risky situation, I just don't trust the big countries when it comes to the thirst of power. I'm sure countries like Russia or USA will do anything to show that they are more powerful by any means possible. A nuclear exchange isn't off the books.

 

At some indefinite time in future there'll be nuclear war. And there are places which are most likely to be targeted. Densely populated cities, places where there's lots of military installations, barracks, etc. I live as far away from these place as I can. That doesn't guarantee anything but I have a firm belief that small towns will survive the initial nuclear blasts. The radioactive fallout however could kill everyone. There's little anyone can do to protect themselves from it.

p.s By the way the Russians were calling for the nuking of Yellowstone. It would probably trigger a volcanic eruption that would wipe out America.

 

I don't think it's really worth preparing for. What can you even hope to do? Best case scenario, you have some sort of fallout shelter. If, and only if, your shelter does save you, you're still screwed. You basically have to live out the rest of your days, pretty much alone, and your cause of death will probably be painful. (Starvation, or dehydration). I guess you can take your chances, and maybe, someday, you or your future generations will be able to walk the Earth again.

 

That is who I would survive for. My children may only inherit a blasted wasteland, but they'll be alive to continue on our family. And, perhaps, in time, they can restore our Republic. Some people will survive and those that do will be faced with the daunting task of rebuilding the nation.

 

Good for you are going all in for prepping to cope with those circumstances. But remember that in an eventual nuclear fallout, there is going to be places so highly radiated that even protection is rendered useless.

 

I do not have the resources to build such a bunker that will be able to sustain us for decades while the radioactivity subsides. If it does every happen, I'm a goner and so is everyone around me. This world will be let for those that could afford to have these long term bunkers built. The rest of us will perish. That is not a world that most of us don't want to survive to anyways.

 

I am much more concerned with EMG attack that could wipe out the electrical grid in the United States without having the side effects of severe radiation that would make the land all but uninhabitable. There is really no viable way for a middle-class family to survive a nuclear attack since you are looking at decades, if not centuries where the radiation exposure would be lethal to humans. Preparing for an EMG attack is a much more pressing matter since it would be a far more likely occurrence and one that would be survivable with the proper preparation.

 

Decades? No. After two weeks, generally, radiation levels produced by fallout will drop to the point in which survivors can start to work outside.

From Nuclear War Survival Skills, by the late Dr. Cresson H. Kearny, of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory:

Within two weeks after an attack the occupants of most shelters could safely stop using them, or could work outside the shelters for an increasing number of hours each day. Exceptions would be in areas of extremely heavy fallout such as might occur downwind from important targets attacked with many weapons, especially missile sites and very large cities. To know when to come out safely, occupants either would need a reliable fallout meter to measure the changing radiation dangers, or must receive information based on measurements made nearby with a reliable instrument.
​

From the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), Nuclear Blast:

Time - fallout radiation loses its intensity fairly rapidly. In time, you will be able to leave the fallout shelter. Radioactive fallout poses the greatest threat to people during the first two weeks, by which time it has declined to about 1 percent of its initial radiation level.​

From In Time of Emergency: A Citizen's Handbook, section "Shelters," Office of Civil Defense:

To protect themselves from the radiation given off by fallout particles, people in affected areas would have to stay in fallout shelters from two or three days to as long as two weeks.​

From Fallout Protection: What to Know and Do About Atomic Attacks, Office of Civil Defense:

In the event of a nuclear attack, be prepared to live in a shelter as long as two weeks, coming out for short trips only if necessary.
​

And many other scientific sources. The how-to of handling such a departure from a shelter is technical and outside the scope of this thread though.

 

Unless you are living in a very modern part of the world or you are very rich to have underground bunkers and a lot of food supply that could last for years then yeah most-likely.

 

Survival would be very much based on the type of nuclear exchange it was. If it was fairly limited the two week rule would apply. If it was an all out TEOTWAWKI, all of ours launched at them, and all of theirs launched at us, the only people who will survive are the ones in Cheyenne Mountain and the Russian equivalent.

Mankind will be hard pressed to survive a Nuclear winter. How much damage is done to the air, soil, and water remains to be seen. In two weeks the Iodine 131 will be gone, but Strontium- 90 and Cesium- 137 both have half lives of almost 30 years. These are the three worst isotopes that come from a nuclear explosion.

Would we be able to grow anything? Would there still be potable water? Wildlife would almost certainly be gone. Would the fish be safe to eat? Lots of questions.

To reply to the original post: yes we do prepare for a nuclear exchange. Fortunately our house has a nice sized basement that is very livable. It can be used as a shelter with very minor modifications that could be done very quickly. We could survive there for two weeks if we didn't kill each other before the time was up. There would be some weeping and gnashing of teeth going on down there. OMG!!!

 

One of the criteria I used in selecting where I would purchase my live in BOL was nuclear fall out. It wasn’t a main concern, but among about 8 selection criteria I used. I plotted expected fallout using common tactical nuclear weapons hitting strategic targets in Alaska. My army training and some online resources makes this fairly easy work. I’m out of the dangerous fall out radius of most tactical nukes, and I have a nice cellar that I could hide out for a few days to provide additional protection. The bigger concern is the loss of major ports as this is the lifeblood of Alaska. But this is what being prepared is all about.

 

One problem for Alaska is we are more or less down wind of China, North Korea and Russia. When that nuclear plant melted down in USSR (which is a hell'ova long ways away) it was a fairly big deal for Alaska for about a month. I fear in a serious exchange in the northern hemisphere it could be bleak for a long time. We were advised not to eat caribou for at least a year.

I have been reading about it and it is a truly horrific, disgusting and repulsive way to die, of radiation poisoning. Strangely I was reading a novel this winter that the author must have extensively researched about radiation poison, as he was very graphic.

 

Days after the bombs going off in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there was the most beautiful bloom of flowers.

One man who was in both blasts (engineer; survived being irradiated in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki) lived to be 93.

https://www.history.com/news/the-man-who-survived-two-atomic-bombs

 

A full on nuke war is of little concern to me

Being a nothing country we are not worth nuking!
Being in the southern hemisphere we will get little fallout from the north and by the time it gets here it will be near harmless.
So not really worried.

 

It just occurred to me that a nuclear attack on the joint base Elmendorf-Richardson would also take out the Chugach Electric power plant, and the Port of Anchorage, the City of Anchorage, Alaska and the massive fuel terminal at the port and maybe the Alaska Railroad terminal and shops. Even roads north and south with massive rock and landslides.

I wonder how accurate the delivery system is for those rockets. And if they are dependent on the GPS system. Which China can disable......I think.

 

Nothing worth an expensive nuke here . What would be of concern is where does that radioactive nuke cloud settle back to ground level ? That would depend on wind direction and atmosphere . I remember my brother "a meteorologist " pointing out a cloud and telling me , that cloud originated in Africa from a drought and was actually a dust cloud and now was over us in the United States .

 

For whatever it is worth' in an "OLD" U.S. civil defense hand book it advised people after a nuclear event to stay indoors , put blankets or whatever under doors to try to hold radioactive dust from entering the home . That will not stop radioactive waves from penetrating walls but will minimize direct contact with radioactive dust .

 

So I wonder about this mutually assured destruction theory ...."NOW".

If the targeting uses GPS.........then why can't Russia and China launch a massive attack, maybe with non-nuclear rocket delivered weapons, and four seconds after impact, simply shut-down the world GPS system...???

 

Could Russia and China launch a massive non-nuclear attack of 8,000 weapons, or some unbelievable number, and near totally destroy a country like USA for example, without contaminating it.....???

 

I think MAD makes global thermal nuclear war less likely than other scenarios. More likely are rogue nations or terrorist groups that could do limited nuclear exchanges. The Anchorage/JBER area and Valdez hit with a nuke would not only bring Alaska too it’s knees, it would take offline the largest known petroleum oil reserve in world. It would take away virtually the entire strategy defense of attack of CONUS from the northern approach, which is significantly shorter than any other route. This is the bigger strategic issue. Two nukes would do this. My location is out of the fallout range of this scenario.

Not sure I’ve got the preps to survive long under MAD, but I have a chance under the above.

 

I was scanning thru this thread and have some thoughts and suggestions. I do have copies of the various Civil Defense pamphlets from the 50's up thru the 80's that show methods to build expedient shelters in your home to help up the protection levels and you can find out the protective levels of different materials like soil vs concrete vs steel etc... But I would also remind that the discussion about the shelter in place times is very dated and come from a time when the bombs themselves were of lower yields.

Another thing to point out is that many of the the ICBM's are MIRV's, not a single bomb. Each missile has a multitude of warheads, each aimed at different targets. As for accuracy, remember this is old school Russian and Chinese built systems so I'm thinking accuracy isn't high on the list. So don't think your safe because your "X" miles from a probable target. These warheads may end up like a shotgun blast and just send out a pattern. Though they also have precision guided cruise missiles to deliver to specific targets. Don't forget the Russians have been touting their Hypermissle technology that would cut the potential impact times in half or less.

There are things that can be done to help safeguard your family and animals in the window of time before fallout would hit that is assuming you aren't near ground 0 and turned into a shadow on the wall. If you have equipment, pilling dirt up around the exposed areas of your basement walls, taping up over windows and doors from the outside with duct tape and then over top with plastic wrap could help increase shielding level and reduce the amount of fallout that filters in. Moving as low and as close to the center of your home to increase distance from radiation. For farms it means shutting in your animals in the barn and trying to seal up areas that would allow fallout particles in. You might not be able to save them all so pick the healthiest and move on.

On the Yellowstone culldara thing, Russia might have a bullseye on it but it would be suicide for them to knowingly hit it as it would likely be a dinosaur extinction level event for the world.

I see the biggest potential for use of nuke's being a small terrorist dirty bomb or one of 2 other actors, India & Pakistan or Israel & Iran. The problem will be anyone after the fact striking back. Lets say terrorists set off a devise in the US and we "knew" as much as politicians think they do, that Iran or North Korea was behind it. If we were to strike either of them do you think Russia or China would sit back and let us annihilate one of their allies? So if we retaliate they likely would and even if only a limited strike it would quickly become tit for tat, let'm all fly.

 

As you know........I have always considered Alaska as little more then a disposable early warning tool for lower 48. It would be a piece of cake to over run Alaska by a foreign force.

Alaska is protected by Fighter Jets..........there is relatively zero infantry here, considering its size. I have stated many times that the North Slope oil fields could be captured in a few hours, and impossible to re-secure without near total destruction of that strategic industrial oil field complex.

 

I figure if there's a nuclear attack on the US, I am too close to too many targets to survive the initial strike.

My state has more military bases than any other and several of them are less than 50 miles from me.

That said, it's not something I think is likely to happen in my lifetime anyway.

 

Don't know where you are, but again plenty of chance for a miss or errant warhead to end up anywhere, unintentionally...

 

If the US hasn't completely modernized it's nuclear arsenal, what do you think the chances are that Russia or China has? I'd wager a big chunk of their arsenals are on 30 or 40 year old delivery vehicles. Again not saying it's a definite but I'm betting more than one or 2 would end up where they weren't intended to land. another possibility could be that an anti-missle system wouldn't fully take out it's target and instead it'd just end up knocking it off course to who knows where.

 

I lived through the cold war and grew up with the threat of nuclear holocaust. We came close several times but the absolute certainty that nobody would win that sort of war always made the idiots in charge get realistic and back off. To some extent threatening a nuclear launch is like holding a gun to your own head and glaring at another person that is doing the same. People are crazy...but not crazy enough to pull the trigger on that.

A nuclear attack will probably happen eventually but it most likely will be a terrorist act and we won't have a target to launch our missiles at so it will not be a global nuclear disaster. If you are near where it goes off you are screwed. If you are a long way off you will be safe and I don't think that any preparation will help. With a terrorist attack, there will be no warning so you won't even have time to hop into your shelters even if you are at home.

 

This is interesting albeit a little long. It is a nuclear event that is more likely to happen than all out nuclear war, and at least in this opinion it is survivable.

 

Nuclear war is not my main focus but I am confident in my ability to survive a all out world war three nuclear war . A global winter would be my main concern and perhaps my acilless heel .

 

In reply to "... are you preparing ... ?":

For a private citizen, are not the preparations about the same as the other hazards ? Sealing doors and windows from penetrating radioactive dust mimics the efforts to keep the bugs and other vermin arriving from hurricane displacement. Safe water and food, ... emergency repair supplies, ........

For an emergency responder, not that much different than responding to a major weather emergency. Flooded roads, with the water laden with pathogens, will infect the responder prior to arriving on scene.

To study this, recommend glance at the 11 March 11 Fukushima disaster and response. How do you say "a total mess" auf whatever language they speak in Japan ?

Pertinent: Read some of the pubs by "Rebuild Japan Initiative Foundation". Much is/was on the web.

 

by Pragmatist,

Not quite. What is being shielded from in your description above is contamination particles. There is also the matter of penetrating nuclear energy...Alpha , Beta, and Gamma and even Neutron energy levels.

Alpha wave energy does not penetrate much and can be easily stopped..but such particles taken internally can be very destructive.

Beta level energy penetrates more than Alpha....

Gamma is the big penetrator and so too Neutron.

True enough you do not want to take in any radioactive loose particles of any kind...internally ...if you do you can only wait until your body flushes them out naturally and hope these particles have not done too much damage.
People who have had this happen to them have been monitored for effects for years and years after these happenings.
There is a data base for this kind of information but not something anyone wants the public to know too much about for panic reasons.

Wow!!! The Emergency responders at Chernobyl had no clue as to what they were walking into...and so too would many here in the States.....though this training is now, since Chernobyl and Fukashima, becoming more common place at a basic level among such responders.


My .02

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

A simple shelter with a 4 foot thick covering of earth with a right angle at the enterence sufficient space to hold each occupant layed down, sufficient water, the minimum of food necessary for around 6 weeks and a good chemical toilet with a vent.
A gravity filter and fan driven HEPA filter can be cannibalised from a car aircon unit or the cooling fan from a PC and a couple of lengths of pipe to push clean air through the living quarters and out through the chemical toilet vent.
Get away from the idea that this is some kind of fortress that you will spend years in....it is merely to protect you from the most intense radiation from the tiny dust like particles of radioactive fallout. It is about managing risks, there is always some background radiation but avoiding the intense (but of short duration) Gamma and Beta radiation from fallout will improve your long term chances. Particles emitting Alpha radiation are going to be an issue for much longer as it is much less intense but more persistent, the particles are like dust, likely to enter your lungs as you breathe, the food chain and water supply.

 

Good morning Watcher Chris,

I did not write clearly combined with omitting too much.

My nuc prep is specifically tailored to my situation and environment. I do have the fluorescent sealing tapes here but cannot use them. My greatest danger is to evacuate this shack because of trees falling on houses. In darkness with smoke, I must be able to immediately kick away a rug and vacate. Tape, the better sealant, requires too many seconds to remove. Plus, you probably noticed my arthritic condition.

Sidebar; Most probably are unaware we have more nuclear reactors in our area than the protesters at Diablo Canyon and Mohawk Valley can count to. Enemy use of non conventional ordnance.......per our conversation yesterday...if not a staffer eligible to enter the Culpepper emergency bunker for the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, the next alternative is VA Cemetery, Quantico.

If on the periphery of any blast, only hours later the animals - all rabid - will be seeking shelter also and houses with broken roofs are premier living arrangements.

Thus, rudimentary protection against the basic dust until I can evaluate situation for next step to elevate to.

I will have espresso and Aldi chocolate Biscotti cookies ready while updating plans.

Foot Note: If there is lead time, Tacoma Park, Maryland, next to Wash D.C. is a self-declared nuc free zone. Getting up there eliminates the need for fallout shelter arrangements.

 

Pragmatist,

I did and It wont be long and I will be right there with you. Though I keep close a mag lite, knife, tape measurer,and also a set of those fold up pliers so commonly seen today, there are days wherein my hands hurt terribly ..slowing me down...particularly in the usage of certain tools. And as time transpires...my other joints are catching up with the aches I experience in my hands and with the changing weather.

When I was much younger I used to think the olde folks were a bit touched when they would say , on a clear day, it was going to rain.
Turns out they were not far off the mark.



And you are correct about people not being aware of just how many operating reactors are to be found in this area. I was just like them until I entered this particular field of work. That awakened me and my view of this area significantly.


I have often thought that if an exchange took place...for me the safest place would be at work..wherein there is some shielding in the building out of which I work or on the ship in those shielded confines. Ironic is it not!!??

Within this building is a sealed up steel room for "Specialty Work" with HEPA Filtered ventilation. Again how Ironic.
There are also respirators available should the ventilation or power go down. Anti contamination clothing as well.

Wow...that would be a big "if."

So too would my being able to take advantage of the place wherein I work.




I Too am relaxing with what is left of the weekend before back to the hustle.


Hope to get in some more reading as well as adjustments to my olde design long wire antenna.

Oh...and Biscotti Cookies are very good. From time to time my German mother would serve them with hot coffee or tea. Been a long time since I've had any.

Thanks,
Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Real good info.

I am absolutely certain the shipyard is a cat 1 critical infrastructure. Forget Bath, Maine and Groton, Conn.....sacrifices will be made. I can guess places like the Mariners' Museum will be converted to long term housing arrangements for the Newton bus crowd from here who cannot cross a non-functioning bridge.

A major them is to prepare for realistic, worst case scenarios. At prep classes, whether at that annual North Carolina campground 3 day seminar(s) or citizens' corps classes, who, among all the "experienced experts" can operate a hand crank radio with injured hands ?! How many of the 20 year old immortals can open a multi-tool while wearing thick gloves used for working the graphite lubricated wire rope ?!

80%+ is mental prep/philosophy; 20% - for the products.

 

I don't know if I told you pragmatist...and coffee...but I have three radiation counters. One of them an olde Civil Defense counter and the other two of a more modern configuration.

One of the more modern counters is kept at work in a special locker with the batteries removed and stored with it. Same with it's twin here close to this computer desk...both kept in water proof Plano fishing lure containers...with batteries.

These Plano containers are found at Wal Mart in the sporting goods section and I chose them because they have an O-ring seal around the container....and come in various sizes.





This is a photo of the more modern radiation counter in it's small Plano container with the red O-ring....the larger container is for a Amazon Kindle with the blue O-ring.

Here...again



These smaller pencil type detectors I gave away as I did not like them and stuck with the RADEX type from Amazon.




This should be good information to know...about these Plano containers.

Thanks,
Watcherchris,
Not an Ishmaelite

 

Watcherchris,

So what will the survival nuclear shelter look like, and can you get the stuff out of the water and soil. Is cancer sooner or later going to get us all ?????

 

I cannot discuss certain details of what it looks like down at work ......except to say that this is a more shielded and contained area than what most people have.

A dedicated shelter for stopping or slowing radiation and or contamination is expensive and beyond the reach of most people in thickness and or price. Also in this area ...depth is shallow due to the water table not being that far down verses places out west.

It would take time to get contamination out of soil and water...by weather action...or even leeching.

There are decontamination procedures for immediate individual use....and learning how to take off/remove gloves and put on new ones is among the basics of what we are taught.

I don't know if you are aware of it but America had its own Chernobyl disaster way back in the early 1960s up in Idaho. A massive loss of containment in an experimental reactor some of the details of which are still classified to this day.
What saved America here is that this was a small experimental reactor and it was located far from a city or town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1


This incident is almost unknown by most Americans ....while they could not hide Three Mile Island and Chernobyl...this one was kept quiet from most Americans to this day.


No..cancer is not going to get us all Coffee...

Don't let them scare you to being unthinking or fearful...or like that deer in the headlights.

Someone is definitely trying to frighten Americans on many many things while getting us to believe the government is the best solution to everything...more government....less freedom and liberty.
This is often what Ishmaelites do....herd people through careful cultivation/grooming of their fears and insecurities.
And today many of these Ishmaelites herd by shaming people and trying to make them feel guilty.
We often call these Ishmaelites ....politicians.


My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

Don't recall your mention of these counters yesterday.

In my specific case, I'm dealing with low common denominators to address these situations. I must shelter in place in most cases. Vehicles might not work and I'm 1 km to the nearest state road. It would not be advantageous to me to check any readings. With the aging process is the weakened immune system. This determines much of my actions / reactions.

Had been in charge of Curie unit HAZMAT cargoes in certain circumstances. Can't do this stuff any more.

I must shelter in place and stay inside while listening to radio reports.

Had seen some of those Civil Defense models 1-2 years ago at the Hampton Colosseum emergency prep fair.

 

Weren't those experimental reactors in Idaho at the USN propulsion lab ?

 

There are things that I can do things about and things that I can't. Atomic bombs falling I can't stop and if they do I'm not really sure that there will be anywhere on this planet that will be untouched by that. The same is about the same for a pandemic. In the past, they swept through and killed the weak and left the ones that survived or had some sort of natural immunity alive. If you hid from it when you came out you would encounter it and then either die or survive.

I just don't work very hard on these worries. My focus is on if I survive the immediate problem. To me, that is the way it is for any sort of apocalypse.

 

Two places on the planet that will not experience atomic bombs falling:

- Tacoma Park, Maryland - metro-Washington, D.C.
and
- New Zealand

Both of above are self-declared nuclear-free zones.