Beginner's Guide To Tactical Rifle Cartridges

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by Sourdough, Jun 15, 2020.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    https://www.primaryarms.com/blog/be...BUTTON_1&utm_campaign=20_06_AD12_RifleCaliber

    EXCERPT:

    When shopping for a tactical rifle or carbine, you have a wide variety of calibers to choose from. Each caliber has its own benefits, which are optimized for a specific purpose. Some calibers are tailored towards close-quarters combat, while others sacrifice mobility for precision at distance.


    In this blog, we’re taking a closer look at the most common ‘tactical’ rifle cartridges in America. This includes both intermediate and full-power rifle cartridges, along with a handful of magnum and super-magnum cartridges for long-range or anti-material roles. In each section, we’ll describe the cartridge’s major benefits and key considerations for achieving peak performance.
     
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Bump'it
     
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  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    If someone is new to this site, new to shooting center-rifle cartridges, do please ask questions. There's a good chance that someone on this site can answer your question. If an answer does not spring to mind for any of us, or if there is a online site that is very informative and articulate, maybe one of us can include the link in our response to your question.
     
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  4. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    This topic is so enormously wide! If I allow my brain free berth in coming up with something to say, then here come oceans of ideas that overwhelm. Unless I feel like I've got something in a way of an answer to a question, gonna keep me trap shut.
     
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  5. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    I'm trying to finish an AR-10 DPMS/SR25 style. Waiting on the Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) and the pivot and take down pins (Proprietary with Palmetto arms AR-10). The weapon is in 308 Winchester/7.62x51 NATO and the barrel is 18 inches with a 1 to 10 twist. I'll be shooting heavier ammo. The rifle will be match grade and should be capable of 1000 yard shots. Trying to decide on a optic and have it down to the Vortex Diamondback 4-16x44 or the Bushnell AR 4.5 - 18x40. I'll post pics when completed.
     
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Per OP. The 223 /556 is a good (not great) mid range light recoiling, man injuring combat round. It can kill but is better at causing injury and allowing shooters to pour an significant amount of lead down range. Next common battle caliber is the 7.62 x 39. Very plentiful, cheap ammo and has a good bullet weight. Intended to be more of a man stopper than the 556 but less than the 308. Mid-level recoil and limited accurate range. The 308 / 7.62 x 51 NATO is intended to be a man stopper with good ballistics. Heavy recoil but not massive. Good penetration and very lethal out to 600 yard and longer with a real good marksman (yes, old school term). These three calibers are the most common and reasonable priced cartridges. There a many, many more calibers to choose from. I have the 223 Wylde, the 7.62 x 39 but skipped the 308 and chose the lighter recoiling 6.5 Creedmoor.
     
  7. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Considering the kick from a Mosin Nagant shooting a 7.62x54 round I would think the 7.62x51 coming from an 18 inch barrel would also have a pretty solid kick.
     
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  8. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Actually with a flatwire spring and the right weight buffer an AR10 has a kick similar to a bolt action 243 Win. Using my 30 caliber suppressor will reduce the recoil some more and it gives a false location with supersonic ammo and is very quiet with subsonic ammo. My AR10 is in a rifle configuration which drops the recoil slightly over the carbine configuration. When completed my rifle should have a recoil similar to either 7.62x39 or a 300 BLK.

    Dale
     
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  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I've owned these and they kick like a mule. I've sporterized a couple (incl. Polish M44, my fav.) and when these things get lighter, man do they ever kick harder. I like being able to use stripper clips and the rifles swing into action so quickly. Get a good grip and put the rifle butt hard against your shoulder when you fire one of these ... or else ...

    I prefer the M44 carbines. Many made in Poland have made it to America and I like them. Used to could buy them for a song, but now prices have gotten irrationally high.

    http://www.mosinnagant.net/global mosin nagants/Polish-M44.asp

    https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/russian-m1938-mosin-nagant-carbine-562199/

    Don't by the Chinese M53. I've never trusted Chinese metallurgy and they can't make decent springs over there.
    https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=8190


    Here's the accurate rifle, full length, not carbine:
    http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/default.asp

    I had a Finnish Nagant (Civil Guard, m24). These are bigger/heavier, but do they ever shoot sweet. This thing would consistently shoot 2" groups at 100 yards with standard military ammo. You get that barrel a'cookin', but still it would hold great groups. The wood forend protects your hand from being fried should you accidentallytouch the forend. You can feel the heat coming through the wood. This with the heavy barrel they have. Gave that one to one of my sons. What did he do? Sold it. Crap! Went to a good family, however; really smart responsible crew so it's not a total loss -- went to our allies.
     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The 6.5 Creedmore ballistics mirror the 6.5 Swedish Mausers. The Swedish Mausers had the '96 actions, not the '98 actions. Nevertheless, the 6.5 Swedish doesn't generate high chamber pressures, so the '96 is perfectly adequate. I had a work-mate (genius+ IQ, I'd just stand and listen to him) who absolutely adored the 6.5Swd; he'd let me fire his rifles in this caliber. Ooooh, so sweet! And accurate beyond all git-out. This fellow brought some Swedish receivers to work to get a Rockwell hardness scale on them (a lot of firearms manufacturers use another hardness scale, but I do not know the name of that scale). The results did not impress him so he sent the receivers off to be re-heat-treated. Safety first.

    Mutual friend of ours, math professor (God rest his soul), really knew his game in rifle engineering matters. Still, he had a military surplus rifle blow off the top of its receiver and about a half foot of barrel in front of the receiver. Got an old military rifle that you are not sure about, take it to a competent gunsmith!

    The 6.5 Creedmore is in the power range (less powerful than the .308 energy-wise, so what), the ballistic-coefficient range, the accuracy range of rifles that really fill the bill.

    Having to defend yourself against Cape Buffalo or Grizzly Bears? Go with bigger bores and much heavier bullets.

    One could speak for hours on the topic of the 6.5 bore diameter. Guess I should finish.

    I do not know what caliber our military is going to settle on, however their zeroing-in on the 6.5mm bore diameter is a fabulous thing to be doing. I'm tickled pink that the 6.5 is being resurrected. For well over 100 years, we have known that the 6.5 niche was the sweet spot for smokeless powders. Again, I cannot express my joy that this bore diameter is being recognized as the gem that it is.
    .
     
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  11. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Side note: The .308 does not need a long barrel to get up to velocity. The case capacity vs. bore volume allows the powder to be burned up with this cartridge. Therefore, barrel lengths shorter than 20" are NOT going to be much of a sacrifice in velocity. This is one of the attributes of the .308 that makes it a winner. It looks like its case is too small. No, it isn't.

    The 30-06 has a too large of a case, and if you wish to accuratise the 30-06, when reloading, you must put filler atop the powder before seating the bullet. The .308 case is always completely full of powder (indeed, many loadings are compressed), thus shot to shot, the powder burns in the same fashion. In larger cases the powder could shift forward in the case, or the powder could shift backwards. This causes different burn properties, round to round. There's been a tremendous amount of research done on the topic of burn dynamics. Ironically, if one reduces the load in a large case and does not use filler, far HIGHER pressures can be generated and rifles have been blown apart with LIGHT loads -- it all has to do with burn dynamics. (Right now, I can't find an article demonstrating this effect, else I would provide a link. Sorry.)

    The .243 uses the same case as the .308 (necked-down). However, the .243 (6mm) hasn't the bore volume to burn all of the powder in the cartridge case -- put at least a 22"-plus barrel on the .243.

    The .308 with a short barrel = just fine. Smaller bullet diameters with big cases = keep the barrel long.
    .
     
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  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Very impressive tool. Almost no collateral damage and pin point accuracy. Love it, DR, Strangelove!!
       
      TMT Tactical, Jun 17, 2020
    2. Dalewick
      So,...A missile weighting almost 100 pounds and flying at almost 1000 MPH needs blades to kill. ROFLOL! Even duds kill with kinetic energy and shrapnel.
       
      Dalewick, Jun 17, 2020
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  13. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    A dud Hellfire begins to pancake on impact which breaks up the missile as it continues forward. Please note how it's 4 stabilizers are placed on the body.

    main-qimg-8b7c7de4efee2da6703e5a2f626dd1b4.jpg

    As the fins break away from the body at 1000 MPH they begin to arc from the tube creating a X design.

    Ninja weapon or dud. You decide.

    agm-114r9x-image06.jpg

    Dale
     
    1. Old Geezer
      Holy sh##, what great information. Thanx so much for this info. I'm out of touch w/new military technology, so this I need.
       
      Old Geezer, Jun 17, 2020
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Had coworkers who were working at the Ratheon plant where the TOW missiles were made 1970s into 1980s), they just had come from there to the industry where I was working. Learning about the TOW was most fascinating. The problem was that the missile was guided via a spider-web-thin wire deploying out the rear end of the missile. As the targeted tank changed position, the TOW operator could move the path of the missile. What's wrong with this? The TOW operator had to be in line of sight of the tank. Deploy a missile, now do you think maybe, just maybe, you are now the target of every bad guy in the region? Yes, oh yes, and this is something generally referred to as "a bad thing".

    Now we have missiles that intelligently lock-on to target. With drones, the pilot is remote, can be VERY remote, what with satellites and all. There are towns in countries hither thither who do not know that their bucolic little town is ground zero for a terrorist attack due to the presence of a drone control center. "Honey, what's that building over there?" "Hmmm, I don't know, honey." Terrorist target the whole town because they have to kill the support people and off-duty drone controllers = nerve gas or biological weapons (ones that do the deed faster than this Covid puppy, Covid is an economic bomb).
     
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  15. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    LOL! I'm VERY familiar with how the TOW and Dragon rockets worked. Qualified EXPERT with both. Don't know how to build them but I was real good at using them well. Also used LAW rockets as well as the M202 66mm rocket launcher, and the Carl Gustav M3 Recoilless rifle.

    The TOW and Dragon rockets both have a huge back blast signature and made you a sitting duck for and OPFOR that saw it. Not much fun trying to focus of keeping that rocket on target when people are shooting at you. I was an expert with all NATO light weapons from the 1980's and had used or had trained with many of the WARSAW pac light weapons of the day.

    I had a lot of experience with weapons. As a young man I could field strip, reassemble and perform a functions check on a M16A1 in the complete dark, in under 2 minutes. I liked weapons and explosives. Still do.

    Todays soldiers have toys I would have loved to tried out. A 40mm grenade launching machinegun was some kind of a dream back then. We thought the M249 SAW was awesome when it came out. As LRRP's the cameras we carried weighted almost as much as a SAW. Like the man said, "travel light, freeze at night" and some places could be very cold at night. We were still using generation 1 night vision. LOL!

    Dale

    91b95eb786f67ed85e470fa304322f17.jpg
     
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