Best survivalist gun?

Discussion in 'Gun Comparisons' started by CarlosTL, Jul 7, 2016.

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  1. CarlosTL

    CarlosTL New Member
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    What is in your opinion the best survivalist gun? And how many rounds and AMO is enough to store?

    I am thinking Glock 9mm may be a good option, as it is easy to carry and conceal. However it may not be of much use for hunting purposes.

    Also is it possible to make one's own pistol, using some 19th-century methods it shouldn't be too difficult?
     
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  2. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the trouble with a gun is that when hunting it makes a lot of noise which gives away ones location, which in a post SHTF environment we might not want to do.
    I prefer something a bit quieter like a crossbow or a longbow- or an air rifle.
     
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  3. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Most say a 12g single shot shotgun is best i agree with this due to the wide loads of ammo you can use and now you can buy things that make it into a rifle or muzzle loader that opens even more uses a 22cal air rifle and pistol combo is great for hunting small game as they are quiet so adding these in are a good choice advoid co2 ones as the co2 will be hard to replace
     
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  4. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    The best gun for self defense against numbers is a modern breach-loading gun. But if this is all you have, & you are using it for hunting as well, then you would have to carry a lot of ammunition & the weight of this ammunition could mean that you can't carry other important equipment. A .22 would serve for self-defense & the ammo is light compared to larger calibers, but this small caliber has its limitations & can only really be relied on for killing small game. Even so, if you get into a fire fight your ammo will diminish fast.

    For long term wilderness living I recommend a flintlock muzzle-loading gun. This tool has many advantages over a modern gun if used just for hunting. It can also of course be used for self-defense if you know how to use one properly. The ammo lasts much longer if you retrieve the spent lead from shot game & re-mould it. Gunpowder is light compared to modern ammo & can be carried in large quantities in gunpowder wallets. If you set up a trap line this will further save ammo. I prefer to keep a low profile & stay out of fire fights. You can of course also carry a flintlock pistol for personal protection. Get a caliber to match your long gun if possible as this saves carrying extra tools & ammo.

    Yes you can make your own muzzle-loading guns, but you need to know what you are doing in regards to thickness of metal at the breach. Muzzle-loading guns can be purchased in kit form to keep the cost down. Second hand muzzle-loaders are worth considering, as are antiques, but of course the antiques are more expensive. Percussion muzzle-loaders are not as versatile as flintlocks, & you are relying on a supply of percussion caps.

    Best options: If you are travelling in company, have someone with a modern gun for defense, whilst you carry a muzzle-loader. If you are a part of a group, then I suggest more of the same, modern guns, muzzle-loaders & bows. Make sure that modern ammo does not take precedent over other important equipment, including food & water. Options for this are using people as carriers for just ammo. Using trekking trolleys.

    If you have to make a choice for long term wilderness survival & you are travelling alone, then I recommend a muzzle-loading gun. You can even add a bow as they weigh very little but make sure it is a primitive/traditional bow NOT a compound.

    gvS415PFRwSvpHie8EbQLs1LIwii7XDK.jpeg
    These are my tools of choice. I live in the woods & have done so for many years. I also own modern guns, but given the choice I prefer the muzzle-loaders that I carry. If you need more info there are posts in the "All Things Primitive" section of this forum, or you can contact me direct.
    Keith.




     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  5. ZipMedia

    ZipMedia New Member
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    .22s are very, VERY common and are pretty much legal in most US states. The ammo, alongside 9mm, is also very common. Provided you have proper maintenance, you will have a reliable weapon you can go back to.


    SKS and the Mosin are both very good if you're looking for more firepower. Both are simplistic and are good starting rifles, and ammo for them is plentiful.
     
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  6. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    For what roll? Defense? Hunting?

    For defensive purpose, many would suggest every responsible adult in the household should have at least one quality handgun and one quality long arm, preferably a self-loading carbine (e.g., AR-15, Mini-14, AK-47, M1 Carbine, et al.) or a pump shotgun (e.g., Mossberg 500-series, Remington 870-series, et al.). One book you might find interesting, albeit slightly dated, is Survival Guns by Mel Tappan. Life After Doomsday, Chapter 7, is also valuable.

    As or even more important than equipment is the proper training on such arms.

    There are a lot of schools of thought on this, but generally speaking, more the merrier. Up to a point, of course. Contrary to what some will tell you, it is possible to have too much ammo; not the least of which when it begins to impact your budget and storage capacity for other items.

    The Glock line is a fine defensive pistol. You are correct in that it would not make a good hunting choice, particularly in 9x19mm Parabellum.

    Possible, yes. Advisable, no. Remember bad guys (e.g., looters, etc.) don't always come one at a time. The vast majority of such antiques are limited to a single shot.

    And if you are making your own, or from a kit, you should know what you are doing or this is going to be more of a danger to you than anyone else.

    Not if you're running a can on it. Suppressors are legal to own and hunt with in the vast majority of states:

    0Hwfib_hI20S-_l9Ex1Oy_1Y9MNCb8eV.jpeg

    Why not invest in one? Silence is golden. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  7. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    The best survivalist gun?
    A lot depends on where you are and what you may face!
    As a survivalist you should be avoiding firefights, you are not a soldier!
    If you are a switched on survivalist a single shot rifle will do fine.
    If you engage in firefights on a regular basis your not doing things right and a selective fire weapon would be handy!
    Your brains and your tactics will determine what you need in your hands!
    A rifle that works and is reasonably accurate will do just fine!
     
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  8. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    It's been said by many in the know that a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to your rifle.
    In a a survival mode, I think that more than one weapon should be had.
    A 22 LR semi auto such as a Ruger 10-22, an Ar-15, Ruger Mini 14 or Ak-47 for defensive use, a muzzle loader, an air rifle, 12 ga. Shotgun, Scoped hunting rifle in a .308 or bigger caliber for hunting and sniping and a 9mm or 45 ACP pistol would be the minimum I would want at my disposal. If you can afford and live in a state where you can get a silencer, one made for 22 CF can be used on a rifle that fires 5.56 as well as a 22LR. a silencer for a 30 caliber rifle can also be used on a 22 caliber rifle, but will not be as quiet as one designed for 22 caliber.

    You're not going to carry all at once, but this gives you many options. No one gun would be ideal. The handgun is what you carry when you need to appear unarmed and as a secondary weapon when using a long gun.

    As much as I like the Mini 14, parts such as firing pins and bolts can only be installed by the factory, they will not sell you these parts. Every weapon you own should also have a spare parts kit. Extractors, firing pins, ejectors break. Springs and plungers get lost. Gas rings on the AR wear or break. When all goes south, parts will be hard to come by, so spares will be the only way to keep your weapons running. Spare magazine springs are a must also. Don't forget to stock deep on cleaning supplies and gun oil either.

    If money is an issue, a semi auto 10-22, a Mosin Negant C.F. is a cheap Mil Surp rifle with the power of a 30-06 and ammo is very inexpensive, though slightly corrosive, a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun, SKS rifles can still be found at decent prices and a good 9mm or .45 ACP, all can be found used. Police return Glocks are priced well and few need much work.

    Lastly, if stealth and noise control are important, a Ruger 22LR semi auto pistol with a barrel threaded for a silencer.

    With the above weapons, you will be able to cover most of what you may encounter and also have weapons for others with you to use. Better chance of finding or trading for ammo that will fit at least a couple of the weapons once the stores are empty also.

    In a survival situation, most defensive shooting will occur at distances that are too far for a handgun. Even a handgun and a 30-30 lever action would be better than just an handgun.

    As to ammo, as much as you can get. Once things go south, resupply will be hard to do.

    As the above post said, trying to avoid a firefight is the best thing to do, but I feel that it may be tough to do all of the time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  9. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Way too many guns there!
    What is it with spare parts?
    No gun I have ever owned has broken!
    I have had to repair second-hand buys but once repaired have never needed repairing again!

    If treated well and kept clean guns don't break, none of mine ever have anyway, I have worn out a few guns but have never needed spares.

    Once in survival mode you should live within arms reach of your rifle and ammo!
     
  10. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    I guess it's up to each person to decide what guns they may want or need, this was my minimum list for survival purposes. As to spare parts, as a retired LEO and Gunsmith, I can tell you that parts do break and do get lost when a weapon is stripped for cleaning.
    Yes, most quality weapons are pretty reliable, but parts do wear and break sometimes. Like you, I've had pretty good luck with my firearms, very few broken parts, but even as an experienced Gunsmith, I've still had springs or plungers fly, never to be seen again. When gun stores and part suppliers are no longer there, having spare parts might just make the difference between it being a functioning weapon and a club.
    Hope we never need to find out.
     
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    guns are like everything else post SHTF, great if you have a warehouse full of spare parts(and the knowledge to fit them) and a load of ammunition, a short term use if you haven't.
     
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  12. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    Agreed. Many with a basement full of food, a good water source, heat and a good supply of firearms and ammo will still be lucky to be alive or unhurt a year after a total melt down. You really don't need a warehouse full of parts for every weapon. Having the necessary spare parts is not a huge expense though. Getting the info to repair your own weapons is readily available and most weapons don't require specialized tools for a basic dissemble or re assemble. If you're building AR's, rebarreling a gun or other major work, that's one thing. But disassembly to clean, replace an extractor or other part in most cases requires few tools.
    I kind of go with the two is one, one is none rule.
    Just having that extra spring, plunger or other common, but easily lost or broken part available right now is great. Having your firearm not out of commission waiting for parts to come, especially if backordered, is a real bonus.
    Realize also that as weapons get older, many times parts get harder to get. This may not be the case with military style weapons or the most common weapons, but for many other weapons, parts are already drying up or unavailable.
    I also have parts from 30 years ago that are worth 100 times more than they were then. Guns and parts can be a great investment.

    Spare parts and tools are an individual choice. I think it's a good thing to at least make people aware.
     
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    its not just weapons, everything else will wear out in time and without a manufacturing base spare parts wont be available, anything from generators to solar panels to whatever you drive, without a shed load of spare parts and the knowledge to fit them we will all be learning to live without them at some point.
    my main motto is "keep it simple", if you cant make new ones, if you cant repair them, learn to live without them. because eventually post SHTF we will all have to.
     
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  14. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    The one thing I have that will be of great help is a smaller Lathe, Mill and tooling. I know several people who also have larger machines, but most take 240 V three phase electric. The one's I have run off of 120v. A decent supply of different types of metals also. I also have different diameters of spring steel for making springs.
    I have ways to properly heat treat metal as well as case harden it. I'm working on learning to sand cast also. My other want is to get some Blacksmithing tools and a forge.
    Lots of hand tools also. I never throw away bolts, nuts, nails, screws or any other type of fastener and pick up all I can wherever I find them.
    Rope, cordage, tarps, hose, clamps and many other items will be of great use

    People with specialized skills of all types will be very much in demand.
     
  15. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    You need a good generator to run your shop ran only when needed to keep fuel supply the cost off it will be worth it as it keeps your shop up and ready when needed watch surplus sales to get one or two
     
  16. Doubletap45

    Doubletap45 New Member
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    I have solar panels, charge controllers, inverters and deep cycle batteries for long term use. I store gas with stabilizer, close to 100 gallons and rotate it through my vehicles every six months. Have several different generators, regular and inverter style. This way I don't have to run a bigger gen set than needed.
    Also have a duel fuel gen, gas and propane.
    I try to add to the total solar capacity whenever I see a good deal on panels or batteries.
     
  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    i'm going for the simple life:D
     
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  18. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Probably what you might want to consider doing is layering your weapons. Handguns are good for close range, personal defense. They were originally designed to be used as a sort of last line of personal defense. When you think of a handgun in that capacity, then that means your shoulder-mounted weapon (rifle or shotgun) should probably be your primary firearm. Because of the training I've had, I like medium bore diameter firearms and medium weight cartridges for my primary (rifle) firearms. I also like to have a scope mounted on my rifle to enhance the rifle's overall accuracy, not turn it into a sniper rifle. A simple 4X or 4 power scope works wonders for most rifles and fills the bill like our ACOG or British SUSAT scopes do on military rifles.

    Also keep in mind that both the rifle and my pistol get backed up by a good sheath knife as well. So if things get real personal, I pull out the sheath knife and go to town with it. So, here's the way I see things going down:

    Pistol: either a Glock 17 or Glock 19
    Rifle: scoped AK-47 (7.62 X 39 caliber)
    Knife: Kabar of some kind. Possibly a Becker blade.
     
  19. Boomhower

    Boomhower Member
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    10/22 take down and a 22lr 2016-10-04 19.30.29.jpg revolver
     
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  20. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Straying from the topic a bit here, but bare in mind that the sound of a generator may attract unwanted attention!
    Keith.
     
  21. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Lonewolf is correct, the sound of a gun travels & can attract unwanted attention. Modern rifles being used over greater distances can pose a problem. It will take longer to access your shot game, & this gives an enemy more time to track you. Even when hunting close in as I do, I practice fast field dressing after reloading & I get out of there as fast as possible. Small game I dress later on when in a safe environment.
    Keith.
     
  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    shotguns are the favourite weapon in my location, which is a rural one, even on a normal days these can be heard from several miles away, post SHTF when normal back ground noise will be absent, any firearm will be heard for an even longer distance.
    any noise is liable to give away ones location to undesireables, if there are any in the area.
     
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  23. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Well trying to track someone from a single gunshot is damn near impossible!

    Trying to determine the direction or the range of a single gunshot is only easy for those who only imagine it in there head!
    Where as in REALITY.
    One really needs multiple shots to determine direction and even more to have some idea of distance!
    and echos can really confuse the situation!
     
  24. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    For survival to hunt and live a quiet weapon is best a bow crossbow air rifle are perfect for this a high powered firearm is for defense only. Knowing where you are and knowledge of area one shot from a high power weapon your location is easy to find that includes a 22 lr
     
  25. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Not so! I spent the best part of two decades chasing poachers and tracking via the sound of gunshots is not a very productive endeavour!
    Sounds easy in theory but anyone who has done it in real life knows it is not easy or quick at all!

    From my experience there are just far too many variables to track! the best you get is that there is someone in the area! might be close might not!
    I have heard .22LR shots from a kilometre away sound like they are much closer like maybe 200m! and .308W from just 300m away sound like it was several kilometres away!
    Way too many variables to track just on sound!

    ps on a still night campfire chatter can be heard 5 plus kilometres away!
    one time I tracked these poachers at night by there camp chatter, turned out there was a fencing crew on the neighbours property camped nearly 8km away!
    it was a dead still clear night and a waste of six sleeping hours!
     
  26. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    For new shooters:
    > .22 repeating rifle; lever, pump, or bolt w/ magazine
    plus a 20 ga. pump shotgun with multiple barrels; short smooth-bore barrel, ribbed multi-choke barrel, and a rifled slug barrel for sabot rounds.
    > first handgun, .22 revolver
    > after learning to shoot, centerfire revolver or center-fire auto -- these may very well take time and lots of ammo to master
    > after getting good with a rimfire rifle, move up to a repeating center-fire rifle in short carbine config (might get one in same caliber as the centerfire handgun) or a deer rifle. Surplus military rifles make a great starter centerfire rifle (.303 Brit., 7.62 Nagant, 8mm Mauser, 6.5 Swede).
    > If one wants a military style rifle, well that's a personal call, but don't buy one until you have gotten accurate with other types of rifles. The military almost encourages "spray and pray" -- the taxpayer covers the cost, after all. But "spray and pray" puts civilians at risk and will get you killed if you can't drop the enemy forthwith. The 5.56 M4/M16/AR-15 cartridge won't shoot through cinderblock/masonry walls consistently at distance. A true battle rifle or a 150 yard-plus deer rifle must have a 120 grain bullet or above and possess over 2000 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. Personally, I like the .308 / 7.62 NATO, the .303, the 7.62 Nagant, the 8mm Mauser (loaded up to its potential), the 7mm Mauser, and the 6.5 Swede. You'll not be finding good sources of cheap Mauser or Swede ammo any more.
     
  27. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    The best gun is the one that suits you and the task best.
     
  28. NomadWill

    NomadWill Expert Member
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    In a SHTF situation, Post Apocalypse I would prefer to have at least 3 firearms at my disposal. 2 Main weapons and a Sidearm.

    1. A glock 17 Gen 4

    It holds 9mm which is a widely available ammunition type here in the U.S, and small enough to conceal if needed. I wouldn't use this for hunting, only for self defense if the situation arose, plus it can have numerous attachments if you're into that sort of thing.

    2. AR-15

    The Second weapon I ever fired, It was a Sweet AR-15 using 5.56 Ammo with a foregrip and a red dot sight. I Prefer the un-fancy version though. I would use this weapon for only self defense (if i had a choice) It could be used for hunting, but i'd prefer not to.

    3. Some sort of Long range sniper rifle with Scope.

    Never used one before, but I would use this as a Hunting weapon, unless I needed it for an alternative reason. I could replace this weapon with a bow, or Crossbow If i learned how to use one.
     
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  29. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I can see that if you were bugging in to a retreat out bush, these firearms would be a good choice. But if you had to travel with these arms, I can think of more important items to carry than a sniper rifle.
    Keith.
     
  30. NomadWill

    NomadWill Expert Member
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    Very true, It would be bulky to travel with.
     
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  31. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    A survival firearm????
    The operative word being survival.
    Survival from what is the important consideration.
    If taking critters to eat then that is much different from surviving a mob intent on pilfering your
    stash of food, etc.
    I'll address survival by taking edible game.
    By far the single shot .22 rim fire rifle with good iron sights. Iron sights simply means no scope sight.
    Subsistence hunting small game is usually a short range proposition.
    25 yards or less with 50 yards being extreme.
    .22 r.f. ammo is still cheap. A bit of shopping can still get you ammo at a nickel a pop.

    https://www.targetsportsusa.com/22-long-rifle-ammo-c-202.aspx

    I have 15 thousand rounds stored and 3 thousand available at all times.
    I have many .22 rifles.

    Next up would be the 12 gauge single shot shotgun.
    There are adapters for a single shot 12 gauge in many calibers but I wouldn't bother.
    A single shot .22 rifle and single shot 12 bore would fill the bill quite nicely for food harvesting
    machines.
    I have both though I have many other repeating firearms.

    Defensive firearms?
    Well I could write a book but I will spare you.
    I have a Ruger SR 5.56, with 6 magazines of 30 rounds and a thousand rounds of mil spec ammo.
    A 6.8 spc that I have taken deer with and 200 rounds of ammo.
    Ammo for the 6.8 s.p.c. is stupid expensive. A good hunting/defensive round but expensive.
    The 5.56 is my "go to" get 'er done defensive rifle and in a pinch it will take game as large
    as deer with a well placed shot.
    One can find ammo in 5.56 (.223 Remington) for around 40 cents a pop.
    I have lots of ammo, at least 600 rounds and likely a thousand or more. Gotta do an inventory.
    100 rounds of 12 gauge lead shot in #4 and $6 shot will do fine for small game.
    At close range it'll make a 2 legged gobblin yelp.
    Lots of my ammo is in storage and I need get it out pretty quickly.
    As an aside.
    I live in the country where I hear people back yard shooting all the time so it does not concern
    me that others hear me shooting all the time.
    NO ONE knows how many guns I have or how much ammo.
    NO ONE.
    I live off a little traveled or known road and 300 feet from that road.
    I'm bordered on one side by a 6' fence & 4 land highway, all woods on another side for over a mile, nothing
    on the other side for half a mile, and one neighbor across the road.
    It's pro'ly as secluded as one can be in crowded N.E. Ohio.
    I have no idea how much reloading equipment, powder, primers, bullets, cases, shot, I have, both
    metallic and shotgun shells.
    Enough.
    What is the BEST defensive firearm?
    The one in your hand.
     
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  32. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    By the way I'm bugging in, not out.
    I have no place to bug out too and where I am is about as safe as I can make it.
    I doubt any of this prepper stuff is necessary.
    But..........................................................................
     
  33. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    If you do ever have to leave, you will have to choose which firearm to take & what to leave behind, unless of course you are travelling with others. Can you give us some idea of the area you are living in without telling us where you are jeager?
     
  34. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Crowded N.E. Ohio but I live away from most large cities.
    Nearest is a village of under 1500, nearest city is 7 miles and it's a small city and all ......................
    hummmmmmmmmmmmm, non ethnic, not multi racial but lately I've seen more and more
    Hispanics who don't/won't speak English at the local Walmart.
    I doubt any have what we call JOBS. They pay for purchases with a State credit card that we call
    The Bank of Welfare.
    They buy steaks and I buy burger. They VOTE and vote liberal. Why? That's where the money is.
    Where the benefits come from. Free medical care, free food, free housing, free everything.
    I worked all my life am a disabled cop, started college at age 48, graduated with 2 degrees, retired
    from G.M. and "they" live much better than I do.
    I have and pay my bills, they have no bills.
    Pisses me off!
     
  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    no bills? even people here on welfare we call benefits have to pay bills, electric-gas- water.
     
  36. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Not in Ohio, U.S.A.
    A politically liberal State.
    "Gimme" people vote.
    I call 'em gimmie people. I want mo', gimme mo'.
     
  37. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I like guns and have worked in various ways in the gun business several times. I personally don't know off the top of my head how many guns I own. Let's just say lots and leave it at that. I've been involved in survival all my life and even for a while was off the deep end a bit and was part of an underground militia sort of group. I'm a gunsmith and a reloader and have pretty much shot about every thing that is legally allowed in Texas and more than a few things that weren't.

    Over the years my answer to this question has gone through a lot of changes as my definition of survival changed. Back in the 70s I wasn't sure that the US wasn't going to have another civil war. I armed myself in a massively military fashion because I was part of a military type group. I grew up a little more, becoming a Father changes the way you look at a lot of things, and began to move in a more defensive direction. About 15 or 20 years ago I sold off the military stuff. Made a killing on that stuff. Bought cheap sold sky high. I didn't do it for money though. I did it for safety and because I started seeing a different sort of issue developing. Waco an Ruby Ridge were wake up calls for me.

    The best gun for survival is the one that will do the most for you in your situation without endangering you. I'm sorry but I think that the assault weapon craze is going to get a lot of people killed if we ever have an apocalypse and it isn't going to be the people with the assault weapons doing the killing! Real Assault weapons are designed for a specific type of warfare. Vietnam was eyeopening and the previous battle rifles were just not working. Fighting in a jungle is nothing like the big set battles of WW1 and WW2. The M-16 was an answer to that new situation.

    Unless you are going to be practicing jungle warfare as a part of a well organized military group that is not the weapon you need. People think that it is a big bad killer and the fact is it is an anemic weapon that will take several rounds to stop someone if you are shooting FMJ ball ammo. That isn't the real problem though. First off people have watched too many movies where the good guy just mows down the enemy while escaping totally unharmed. That isn't the real world folks. While you are mowing someone is going to aim and kill you!!

    Another problem is that assault weapons attract too much attention and make people nervous or even scare them half to death. In a war this might be nice but in a survival situation it does nothing for you. Here is the problem. Along with that assault weapon there seems to come an attitude. "I'm big, I'm BAD and I have this here assault gun to prove it." If I sit off a hundred yards and gut shoot you with a 22lr you are DEAD and it isn't going to be a nice quick death either. Unless you are a part of a large well trained group your best route to survival is to not attract attention to yourself. Avoid all violence and injury. REMEMBER there is no ambulances or quick medical attention and even a small cut can go septic and kill you.

    If your choice of weapon makes you feel safe and tough and able to handle any situation then it is probably not a good thing. If you live in a place where most of the game is small and will be shot fairly near you don't need a high powered rifle with a big scope on it. Hunting big animals is inefficient and there are easy ways to do it without a big gun.

    To tell you the truth I'm actually leaning more towards a 20 ga shot gun these days over a 12 ga because the ammo is lighter and it takes less to reload it. Up close if you are shooting buck shot a 20ga will do the job quite well. 20ga slug works well for deer in relativity close ranges. The biggest advantage to a 12ga is that it is the most commonly used and ammo is more available. That isn't really much of a consideration though because a week after things go to hell ALL ammo is going to be hard to find.

    I personally have taken a big step into the past. My survival weapons of choice are a 357 mag revolver, a 22lr revolver, a 357 mag Winchester Carbine. Mossberg 500 pump shotgun and Ruger 10-22. I also have several rifles but if I had to run I would leave them. I am comfortable with all of these weapons and while the revolver doesn't have a big magazine full of ammo, I don't plan on getting involved in a gun fight and if I do that revolver means 6 dead people. I use playing cards for targets and have probably fired 25,000 rounds with revolvers such that my eyes see and my hands make it happen. I seldom am aware of aiming. I plan on inheriting the earth...that means that I am going to be meek and nonthreatening with a big smile right up to the second before I kill you or invite you in for tea or coffee.

    A gun is a tool and like all tools you need to know how to use it and use it properly or it will hurt you. You don't want it to be something that makes you act foolish. A little fear is healthy in a bad situation. The only fight that you KNOW that you will win is the one that you didn't fight.
     
  38. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I have 3 A.R. type rifles, Ruger SR 5.56, Remington R- 15 and R-25. + Remington
    870 shotguns and extra barrels with choke tubes.
    The 870 is a rugged, robust, shotgun.
    Most police departments issue the Remington 870 for patrol duty.
    They don't cause concern to anyone because I don't bring them to
    show and tell.:D
    I have my own 125 yard range behind my home on 15 acres in the country surrounded
    by farms and most all farmers own guns and shoot "out back".
    It's either too cold, too stormy, or I'd hear someone shooting someplace.
    Even at night. People call fox and coyotes at night fairly often.
    Midnight on Dec. 31, Jan. 1, New Years, it sounds like a war zone.
    Wonder why burglaries are rare where I live?:p
     
  39. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Having the people that live around you think that you are maybe more than a little bit crazy does have its good points at times.
     
    jeager likes this.
  40. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Indeed it does.
    Served me well in police work. :>)
    We had a riot in the "ethnic park".
    Young ethnics breaking bottles, throwing bricks, the usual.
    I sent all my patrol officer away.
    Why?
    It took the "targets" away. I waded into the crown of punks and
    asked how their mommas were.
    I knew 'em all having been raised in "da hood".
    Took the fun out of the "demonstrations".
    Brave? Nope.
    Stupid? Most likely.
     
  41. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    One needs multiple firearms and an air rifle.
    For small game at short distance, spend the money and get a .22 caliber air rifle. Do your reading before doing your buying. I myself have a high quality air rifle from Germany in caliber .177. I'd rather have a .22 air rifle. I've fired that puppy thousands of times without it having failed yet.

    One could also use a .22 LR rimfire that is very accurate. I actually recommend a target rifle of not so great weight, a cheap target rifle with aperture sights. The chamber on a target rifle differs from a regular barrel. Shoot subsonic, target grade ammunition through these. High velocity hollow points ruin meat. Get good enough for head/neck shots.

    For power, purchase a high quality pump shotgun (12 or 20 gauge) with interchangeable barrels. One barrel will be a ribbed barrel with screw-in chokes so that varying distances can be covered with the correct choke. This barrel is for general hunting. The second barrel should be a slug barrel with rifling and adjustable sights -- this is for deer-sized game. Sabot slugs can be as accurate as a woods rifle and used at woods rifle distances (under 200 yrds; people have used them at further distances, however we're talking loping trajectory out there). One could also purchase a third barrel, that being a plain old short smoothbore for buckshot / Brenneke slugs -- this would be for home defense. Buckshot is OK, but slugs kill / tear-off arms/legs. Might want to get a magazine tube extension for more shots.

    The above represent your core firearms.

    I don't feel like I have the time in this thread for the discussion of deer rifles, surplus military bolt actions, handguns, and semi-auto rifles. I'll let other people talk about those weapons.
     
  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    A 20 ga 3" mag covers the territory once covered by the grand old 16 ga. and the lighter 20 ga. loads kill without shredding small critters into the inedible. Slugs out of a 20ga kill. Using sabot slug loads in 20 gauges with rifled barrels has an almost religious-cult following among deer hunters restricted to shotguns for deer hunting in their state. Dead is dead. Why ruin more meat?

    As to the effectiveness of a 20 ga. against human felons intent on killing you, understand that a 20 ga slug (and a shot cup load of pellets at short distance acts like a slug) of any sort has higher energy levels than the .44 magnum handgun. Need more than a forty-four? I don't think so.
     
  43. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    These are the spare parts & tools that I carry for my fusil & pistol.
    Keith.
    935b453beeffa4ca0797ec900a56cc2d.jpeg
    935b453beeffa4ca0797ec900a56cc2d.jpeg
    935b453beeffa4ca0797ec900a56cc2d.jpeg 935b453beeffa4ca0797ec900a56cc2d.jpeg 935b453beeffa4ca0797ec900a56cc2d.jpeg 935b453beeffa4ca0797ec900a56cc2d.jpeg
     
  44. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    From your post I will assume that you are not a hunter, or at least not an experienced hunter. I am, & I do not agree with your opinion.
    Keith.
     
  45. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    It only takes one bullet to kill a man. Bullets in the air mean nothing. Only the ones that hit count. I am not sure that a bunch of gizmos will make a great difference in your chances of survival. Night vision and silencers will not make you safer since they are mostly of use when you are attacking rather than defending. If you go out hunting for trouble you aren't likely to last long before someone puts a bullet in you. During that first 6 months those that want to live will need to lay low and let all the Rambo's kill each other. Understand, if you get shot there won't be any doctors to fix you up. Instead you will probably get the pleasure of a long, slow and very painful death. Anything much worse than a shallow flesh wound will be tough to recover from. If any major bones are broken or organs hit you are screwed.

    The guy with the single shot is going to be careful and avoid getting in confrontations with armed people. He is going to be bunkered up at night and not wandering around. If he shoots you it is most assuredly will not be with a subsonic round. The chances of you seeing him will be slim to none because if he sees you all of your stuff is either going to intimidate him OR he is going to stalk you for your goodies.

    To each their own though. Don't mistake fancy weapons with being well armed or dangerous. It is the PERSON and not the thing that make people deadly. AND as always the best way to survive a gun fight is DON'T GET IN ONE! After the balloon goes up walking around with all of your goodies showing will be like taking a walk in Da Hood with hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pocket.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  46. TENNGRIZZ

    TENNGRIZZ Expert Member
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    True fear the man who has only one weapon , rest assured he knows how to use it!
     
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  47. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Dude, you ARE aware aren't you that a subsonic 5.56 60 grain bullet out of an AR is only a tiny bit more powerful than a 22 LR aren't you??? If you are going to shoot a 22 why don't you lighten your load and just move to a 22LR rifle and base? LOTS more ammo per pound.

    I'm sorry but I just don't plan on running around getting in gun fights and shooting thousands of rounds. I doubt that I will need to kill 10 men so actually the 10 12 ga buckshot instill a lot more confidence in me that subsonic 22 rounds. ONE 12 ga buck shot round will do the job. How many rounds that are about like a high powered 22 pellet gun do you think it will take if you can't shoot them in an eye. Personally I wouldn't go even for head shots. The skull is amazingly hard and if you don't hit it straight on it will skip off. This is true of even a full power 5.56 much less one with less than a third of the power.

    I can't imagine where you are getting your info but you are WAY off center of reality. If you plan on shooting a lot of folks and want to live for very long you do NOT want to bring a pop gun to the fight. All of your toys are going to get you killed. If you walk down the street with an "I'm BAD, I'm loaded for bear, I'm invincible cause I have 10,000.00 dollars worth of cool stuff...Somebody with a hundred dollar Nagant and dirt cheap surplus ball ammo or a break action 12 ga shotgun is going to just drop you.

    When the going gets tough the bad guys get killed quick by the meek that are scared of them. They don't do it in stand up gun fights. They shoot you from hiding in the back of the head and there won't be a damn thing that you can do about it. The ONLY thing that keeps the gang bangers and creaps alive is that good people don't break the law and do what they KNOW should be done. Take away the laws and If there are thieving crack heads in a crack house in the neighborhood good people aren't going to live in fear. They will set the house on fire and kill EVERYONE that comes out.

    After the laws stop having meaning you do NOT want to be a scary or threatening person. Speed and accuracy only counts in a fair fight and if you are fighting fair you ain't very smart or trying very hard. I could have beat Mike Tyson to a pulp in his hay day. Come from behind with crowbar in hand and he would never know what hit him.
     
    Ystranc likes this.
  48. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Not sure who you are replying too here, obviously someone who is using a 12 gauge shotgun, that is not me, however I certainly agree with what you say about the ammo being heavy. The 12 gauge is good for defence, & solid slugs give this gun much more range, but of course slugs are not much good for small game.

    The gun I purchased was not cheap, & it was & is my gun of choice at any price. The lead costs me nothing, the gunpowder is light in comparison to lead & I have plenty. I don't need to carry a lot of lead. What I carry will last me a lifetime.

    Like I said, you know very little of what you are talking about, you lack experience. I read your comment on foraging, again, you lack experience & even imagination. Anyway, I for one would not try & change your mind on these matters, the less people out there post shtf the better.
    Keith.
     
  49. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    You are right Keith and I'm done with this silly crud.
     
  50. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Sorry Billa, are you saying that you're paying for a .22LR by selling your blood and commiting fraud.
    Seriously?

    They're cheap enough and common enough to be able find them really cheap second hand without you having to part with your body fluids.
     
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