Body Armor A Possible Solution ?

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Pragmatist, Jun 20, 2020.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    They are getting what they wanted. Let the Utopian community guard handle the crimes. By the rules of Utopia, all the bad guys will haply reform and crime will fade away. By the way, all you happy Utopian folks, got great beach front property here in Arizona.
     
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  3. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    Imagine that. The criminals are the ones that have guns. Who could have guessed. ROFLOL! NYC can have what it voted for.

    Dale
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Considering body armor . I am not endorsing and know nothing about its's quality . However on " The Oath keepers store " by computer they are now selling body armor . They are taking an potential Civil War very seriously .
     
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Since it was liberal policies that brought about the increased violence, don't be expecting the MSM to be reporting the toe-tag count. The MSM will go on with the big-lie dogma of "white oppression causing blacks to kill each other".

    Once upon a time, black youth at least had the influence of the men of black church leadership to help guide them away from criminal activities even if their dads were worthless or absent. However now, the anti-Christian activities of liberals has destroyed the influence of Christianity on these youth.

    Chaos rules. No one should be shocked.
     
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Just watched YT video on DIY body armor. Could be something to know about, if the Liberal get body armor banned or restricted.

     
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  7. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TMT,

    I'm not up to date on all this but remember that Los Angeles did prohibit private citizen use of body armor.

    Ref DIY; I saw in Vietnam some enemy ... not necessarily Viet Cong, might have been CIDG, ARVN or others ... take 2 partially filled sand bags, tie them together and then drape around neck as a rudimentary form of body armor.
     
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  8. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    Makes one think that maybe they knew how well 55gr 5.56mm NATO ammo could penetrate. That would have helped against the M16 but not much help against a M60 or M14.

    Pragmatist, Did those guys try to look unimportant?

    Dale
     
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  9. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Dale,

    My fading memory doesn't remember their demeanor.

    I hated the M16.

    The M14 and M60 worked.

    Under full attributes of US Army tradition, I trained with the M14 and later, arriving in-country, was issued the M16.
     
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  10. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    P. A number of my NCO's told similar stories and they still hated the M16A1. I was never a fan of 55gr ammo against a human size target. Especially in jungle environments. A soldier shouldn't have to shoot an enemy 3 to 6 times to make sure he's dead. I was one of the lucky ones. 50% of my team always carried the M21 and we could chose to a secondary weapon other than a M16A1 or CAR. I often chose a MP5SD or a CAR or M16 with a M203 grenade launcher. 40mm flechette rounds are awesome!

    Dale
     
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  11. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Dale,

    That 40mm flechette round must indeed be awesome !

    I've got a flechette dart sewn onto my boonie hat for veterans events. It was from a 105 HOW APER beehive round. They worked.
     
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  12. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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  13. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Legendary Survivalist
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    I own. It was on my list.
     
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  14. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Varuna,

    Only a couple of days ago, there is a new law in Fairfax County, Virginia (metro Washington, D.C. area) prohibiting firearms on public property. The restriction is part of a much larger plan.

    Virginians are governed from Richmond, Virginia, the state capital. Virginians are ruled from Fairfax County, Virginia.

    ......

    Although technically not part of Fairfax County, Congressman Steve Scalise, representing a section of Louisiana, was shot and wounded at a baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia. The firearms restrictive trend is visible for some to see.
     
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  15. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Last Outlaw,

    Here, too. Madam Prag and I have 3A under the shirt type body armor.

    My weakness and worry was a decent helmet. In early 2021 - only months away, a 3A firefighters helmet is scheduled to hit the market. The Responders are getting well prepared now.

    The problem for me is that armor is heavy and I'm obliged to load up on a lot of other stuff; eg RX medicines always on my belt, a couple of waters, my books and poetry to protect me. No laughter as per the song.

    If, when, the fire fighters' helmet hits the market, will try to post something here.
     
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  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I've never been a fan of body armor. It gives you a false sense of security. Unless they are shooting a 22lr or some equally anemic round getting hit in the chest by a major caliber is going to probably knock you on your butt and leave you helpless for a little while. I will prefer to be unseen and I gave up on training to do body shots years ago. If I shoot you I want you DOWN and no longer a threat. Too many cops have learned the hard way that even a kill shot in the chest can leave a person time to close with and kill you. A few years ago a cop in houston ran a full magazine out of a Browning highpower and was on the second mag before the guy dropped at his feet. He hit that crazy sucker 14 times. That is why until recently I had no desire to own a 9mm.

    Those things are HOT and where I live between 100 degree heat and 100% humidity they are horrible. That is why most of the guys in Vietnam left them off. The cops that I know here just despise them. It is like spending the day working in a sauna. My plan is to shoot FIRST and not need any body armor. After things go down I will put up a sign telling people to stay out. i will hang a bell for them to ring if they know me. Otherwise anyone that jumps my fence is dead meat. The dogs will raise hell and I will come to the door armed and ready. Even now I never lock my doors. I am a light sleeper and actually don't sleep much. If you come in I will quietly allow you to come in than then kill you. A dead man has no story to tell.

    To each their own. I'm sneaky by nature and am more of a sniper type than an in your face type.
     
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Do-it-yourself armor plates made of ceramic and fiberglass:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=do-it-you...le+fiberglass&atb=v140-1&iax=videos&ia=videos

    Let your imagination go wild. These plates can be used to protect areas of your home during a home invasion. These are not just to use as personal body armor. One could create several safe shooting positions (a fall-back to safe-area) within one's dwelling or business so that you could return fire with some added safety.

    Remember to also buy several large fire extinguishers. This is especially true if you live in an urban area where peaceful protesters are burning down buildings (and the occasional condo).
    .
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Doing the math and research, you could create a 4 foot x 8 foot armored space for less than $60. For less than $240, you can have a 4' x 8' firing square with good ballistic protection. I was interested in protecting my balcony and using it for a potential firing position. Just one possibility. How about a swing out barrier to block a hallway and provide fire cover? Lots of ways to use these panels.
       
      TMT Tactical, Sep 17, 2020
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  18. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    That because they were not properly adapted both physically & mentally to hot & humid climate. I typically only use front plate, while I kept the back panel inside my ruck adjusting the position in the ruck to corespondent to its position if it were worn in the plate carrier. Its not a perfect solution but at least here is "something" there between my back and the incoming bullet. While for VBSS tasking we typically only wear soft armour.
     
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  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    You're describing rifle shots.

    My main need is scrapnel protection. For example, I once had the aluminum housing of an outdoor industrial electrical transformer explode on me. It's far from being anything like scrapnel from military stuff but it still produces casualties.

    Here, it's adverse weather with the human element demanding the need for armor. There's always someone in a car trying to cross the flooding country road. The hot engine block and gasoline leaking around it and, like Grizzley Adams says: "kaboom" and there's some metal and cloth flying around.

    Balistic plates do protect against knife thrusts - but this is theory. Someone approaching that close doesn't happen due the gas vapors changing his,her, its plans.
     
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  20. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Old Geezer,

    I once had - still do but don't remember where they are - some special ballestic plates. One was to place in attache case. This make the executive lunch box into a shield sans the Lord's coat of arms. Also had/have an umbrella, Although useless, .. too heavy ... made of kevlar.

    Was sent an email advert now selling plates for school kids' book bags. The advertising was really great news for charter schools and home schooling.
     
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  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I can see body armour having a place if someone is in a big city, but out here in the countryside it would just get in the way of us doing other things.
     
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  22. Rebecca

    Rebecca Master Survivalist
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    It is currently illegal for me to own body armor, home made or otherwise, in Nova Scotia. My focus has therefore been more on fortifying my home to provide a safe space. Good info to have though, in case I do need to make some one day
     
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  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I know a lot of people that wear full front and back body armor every day and in the summer months, they really suffer. The things are soaked in sweat and while they do offer protection against most of the things that threaten them they make you so miserable and worn out that they tend to rush things that should not be rushed.

    Where I live there are 8 or 9 BIG state prisons that house thousands of prisoners. The worst of them are in High-security places and when dealing with them you are required to wear body armor. Most of them are isolated and are serving life sentences for violent crimes and have nothing to lose. They look at trying to harm a guard as a sort of sport. They can't be punished very much. They are already in the most restrictive imprisonment that is allowed by federal law and when someone is serving life with almost no possibility of parol they don't even try them for any crimes.

    Regardless of the threat most of the officers would probably not wear them if not required to. You are going into a hot unairconditioned humid hell. Most of the cells are enclosed so the only time you actually have to be in contact with them is for their federally mandated hour in an outdoor cage alone. The worst part of this is that the inmates KNOW where the weak spots are in the body armor and that is where they will aim their assaults. When given unlimited time to plan and plot it is amazing the things these human monsters come up with to harm other people.

    The only place worse is Deathrow where they really don't have anything to lose and many want to add another notch on their kill record before they die. I have known too many people that despite the body armor have been hurt. Especially someone that is new on the High-Security wings, the body armor gives them a very false sense of protection. I guess the many stories of people passing out from heatstroke have given me a very poor view of the idea of wrapping up in body armor in hundred-plus temperatures.
     
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  24. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Governments are rife with evolutionary throw-backs. If the law is keeping you from protecting yourself or your family, then disobey the law. It worked for my family -- but keep in mind that they were paying off cops and state congress members.

    California banned "assault rifles". This resulted in a compliance rate of 13%, which is to say that 87% became instant felons. Would you be willing to go confiscate their firearms?!

    A deed to a house is a piece of ink-stained paper. A deed plus some extended magazine shotguns = ownership.

    In the former USA, a person is running for office who is unable to complete his sentences -- whose vice president doesn't speak for herself but for the international socialists. Such an administration would not be able to get adult Americans to respect them / to obey their dictates. Even the military and police will not enforce their dictates. Cops are walking off their jobs as it is. I hope Canadians start refusing to follow socialist dictates. Had Hitler tried getting Irish people onto his death trains, the Irish would have given that dictator yet another battle front. "A dead NAZI is a good NAZI" (National Socialist Workers' Party) -- many old sayings are still true.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  25. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Until you are prepared to die for it, your freedom is only theoretical. The people in these cities have refused to fight for their freedom and so will be free until the mobs get around to them and their homes. People that willingly elect and allow Dictators to rule over them while ignoring the laws under which they were elected end up like the people of Germany. Some went off to the "showers" some went to die for their Dictator and in the end, they all lost their freedom for DECADES. the people of these places that are rioting and burning asked for this and until they decide to nut up and demand change it will get worse and worse. ANYTIME that the police are instructed to not enforce the law and don't the people of that state have the RIGHT to ask for help from the federal government to force their laws to be enforced. They do NOT have to wait for their crooked political leaders to do it.

    PS: It is always a LOT easier to GIVE away your freedom than to get it back...
     
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  26. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Rebecca,

    Yor current Canadian body armor situation is far from being bleak. The trend is for no private citizen to wear/possess this stuff.

    I am "duel-hatted"; both a Prepper and Emergency Responder so I do wear body armor more frequently than most, less LEOs.

    Still, like Dan explained, a planned effort to lethally target someone ... you're back in RSA ... body armor doesn't work.

    My 2 Rands of comments worth;

    As much as a fortified house, basic, private citizen PPE provides much protection. A decent hard hat (avoid aluminum) like that used in the construction trades - or the somewhat better (and costs some more) is the ANSI 2 level helmet such as for white water rafting. ANSI I is rated for vertical injury protection. ANSI II is for eg falling on ground and still protecting head.

    Neck protection is an unknown, even in the military. The VA injuries establish this.

    Decent goggles for the eyes ... just the basic big box store items ... protects against much. No need for laser protection, viewing nuclear blasts, ... just to provide basic eye protection. There are oversized models allowing for wearing RX glasses under the googles.

    A basic firefighter's shirt and pants along with the boots you already use provides substantial protection to the bod.

    The BEST gloves for your environment and anticipated situations exceeds what many LEO arriving at a dangerous scene have.

    I didn't say they were GOLD Rands !
     
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  27. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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  28. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    You can make bullet-proof plates using fiberglass and tile. Instead of body-armor, you can make shields. Tile and fiberglass sure aren't as heavy as steel.

    Fortifying your home, you can use sandbags. You can also build walls with wheels. What?!o_O:confused:;)

    Yea, build a big sandwich -- plywood, aluminum plate, pea gravel, blanket, thin plywood, blanket, aluminum plate, plywood. Put this wall on a mobile dolly with wheels so that it can be moved about. Or, build a bullet-proof wall for your safe room. If you have paving bricks that you use in your yard or garden, you can sandwich these between plywood sheets to stop bullets that have passed through windows or walls and into your home / safe-room.

    Multi-layer wall causes bullet to yaw. Once the bullet yaws, it dumps its energy and is prevented from continuing its path.

    Remember, if attackers are outside your home and your home is only a wooden frame home, you can shoot through your walls at them -- it works both ways, so beware. If all they have are shotguns with shot (slugs are bad news) and handguns, but you have deer rifles, they are out of luck. Old bolt-action war "relics" shooting FMJs become non-relics -- they become bad news for attackers. With the right ammo, relics will shoot through tree trunks.

    Never let the bad guys burn you out so, have fire-extinguishers and a water hose for the INSIDE of your home. You'll need an adapter for your inside spigots to accommodate a garden hose.

    Videos showing how to build tile & fiberglass bullet-proof plates:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bulletpro...ss&atb=v140-1&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

    Here's a fun video about bulletproof shields:



    In the above video, they use the 5.7 round. This is what they are talking about:

    https://www.guns.com/news/2019/10/11/the-story-of-5-7x28mm

    The 5.7 x 28 is bad news for bone and tissue. The cartridge looks tiny, but it makes for horrible injuries. Had contact w/soldier hit in arm by this round. Ulnar bone pulverized. Surgeons had a hell of a time trying to repair damage. I do not know the medical outcome; matters certainly not resolved at time of contact; multiple surgeries were going to be required. The whole situation made me very very very angry (terrorist; long story). But, short story, the 5.7 does damage all out of proportion to its cartridge size.
    .
     
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  29. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The 5 to 6 MM rifles are great in and for jungle warfare. They allow you to carry a lot of ammo so that you can spray an area when you don't have a clear sight on where your target is. If the brush is thick so that your sight range is under 50 yards, I prefer a 12 ga shotgun. If the area is open with shots out past 150 yards, I like the 7.62 rounds. A heavier bullet carries its energy better that the lighter 22 caliber bullets.

    I have never been a big fan of the 5.56/.223 round. It lacks several important things. The 22 bullet doesn't have great stopping power at point blank distances and it has sever wind drift problems. On a hot day with heat rising, you are lucky to keep a round on the black part of the target at 100 to 150 yards. It was good in Vietnam. Half the time you didn't have a clue exactly where your target was and needed lots of bullets more than you needed great knock down power. In the middle east it SUCKED.

    There are a lot of 30 caliber rounds and they all have pretty good power. I think that in most situations I would rather have a 30-cal shooting 150 grain bullets than a 22 shooting 55 grain rounds. Unlike the military I want to kill you DEAD, not create maximum casualties. Wars are won when you overcome your enemies ability to care for the wounded. That make the troops lose heart and surrender.

    When the world goes crazy you don't want to wound people you want them either dead or not know that you were even there. Given the time people will settle back down but the cost for that will be the death of over 50% of the population. Those that survive will be a lot meaner on average than people are now. The meek and the kind will NOT inherit the Earth. On the flip side of that though, the crazy, mean and just plain assholes won't last long either. If you kill a criminal, you don't have to worry about them bothering you ever again.

    When people only have barely enough to survive a thief might as well kill you if he takes what you need to survive. Now days thieves are given a slap on the wrist and sent back out to rob ou again. THAT will end when you will die without the things that they steal from you.

    In the past criminals were treated as the vermine that they are. Now they are treated like misbehaving children and allowed to do it over and over and over. My brother in law has toured the best prisons in 5 states and is and always will be a trashy thief. He has not got caught killing anyone but he is a terrible thief and gets caught on a regular basis. I don't have anything to do with him anymore and will tell you, the world would be a better place if someone put a bullet in him.

    He is living proof that you can't rehabilitate someone. He is a crack shot and one of the best hunters that I have ever known. He will be dead in a short period of time if the world goes down. Someone will kill him for trying the steal something. I am amazed that it hasn't happened already really.
    t
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
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    1. Old Geezer
      People who have not met true sociopaths cannot understand the phenomenon.
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 11, 2021
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  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In agreement with TxDan. Seems that to totally disable a human -- especially a large, drug-numbed, psycho -- it takes a bullet 120 grains or more in weight traveling Mach 2, or one fat heavy bullet that breaks bones and severs blood vessels. Humans are NOT delicate creatures. Add alcohol or whatever brain-numbing/brain-perverting chemicals and you have a beast out of the bowels of Hell. I'm sorry about the base nature of our species, yet such is the case. We must constantly struggle to remain above our animal nature. To truly refine a human is no small task. When there is zero refinement, you have a dangerous creature. Add alcohol and you get a monster.
     
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  31. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    We can go back and forth on bullet weight (grains), speed of the bullet (FPS -- Feet Per Second) barrel design and length but the bottom line is bullet placement. My 223 Wylde (AR15 platform) has a 24 inch heavy barrel and is very accurate out to 300 yards. It is much more accurate than my 7,62 x 39 at that distance. Neither of these calibers or platforms will stand a chance against my 6.5 Creedmoor at 500 yards. None of my rifles would be a useful at 25 feet as my shotgun. Again it come down the right tool for the right job. AND the shooter has to do their part or no firearm is worth a darn.
     
  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    body armour is only any good if your going into a known active fire situation, other than that it will just get in the way of doing other things.
     
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