Brits And Guns

I understand our Constitution and I am conversant with British law, American law being based largely on British Common Law. I am more aghast at gun laws of Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and other allies than I am about say the communist block.

There is an old saying, "When the people fear the government you have tyranny. When the government fears the people you have freedom." I do want freedom for my friends. As far as the big cities here go, they too have an abundance of liberals. They would control every aspect of your life. China, for example, scores every person. If you have a low social score you can't travel, your kids are denied education and other opportunities.

Germany took the guns away and Hitler killed 6 million plus of his own people. Hitler was a piker. Stalin killed 20-60 million of his population and Mao possibly 100 million. Pol Pot is another that disarmed his people and murdered millions. The list goes on. Where the people allow themselves to be disarmed mass murder eventually follows. Be safe my friends.

 

I want to point out something for which I consider very very important in reflecting on our Rights under the Constitution of the United States...and a concept for which I believe many Americans are unaware....and no one even seems want to have us to know the difference.

And that understanding is.................


The Constitution of the United States and in particular the 2nd Amendment...says nothing at all about Hunting....it is not in there.

While I do recognize the relationship between hunting and gun ownership or ownership of arms....the 2nd Amendment is not there for hunting and many many times the left tries to confuse hunting with ownership of arms...and declaring that certain kinds of arms are not necessary for hunting.

This is gas lighting...a phony construct as the 2nd Amendment says nothing at all about hunting.


Do not let these people gas light you....on the left and certainly not on the phony/fake right.

If the Right wing were truly conservatives ..they would be teaching and shouting this difference from the rooftops..that the 2nd Amendment says noting about hunting....but is a limit on government..."Limited Government." Yet the phony/fake Right is silent when all of this manufactured confusion and pabulum is going on.


The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is "Limited Government." It is not for hunting.

The primary purposes of the first Ten Amendments ...are all limits on government ..not limits on the people.


A government which will not trust it's people to be armed will not trust the people with their thoughts, their monies, their children, their right to assemble. speech...religion, privacy, and on and on and on....and eventually such an government will not trust the people with their vote.

And not trusting Americans with their vote is becoming very very obvious with the wholesale infiltrating of Illegals into America...and putting them on the public breast.


The 2nd Amendment says nothing at all about hunting....do not let the left or the phony right ...gas light you on this...they will always try to bring up hunting....as the default setting for the 2nd Amendment ...it is not so.

Whenever you hear a phony leftist or even a phony right winger...talk about hunting and the 2nd Amendment ...call them on it and then educate them to it's real purpose. Do not let them get away with trying to confuse the 2nd Amendment with hunting and thus use/misuse the Same 2nd Amendment to herd Americans in a way which was not intended by the founders.
The 2nd Amendment was always about "Limited Government" and not about hunting.


For this is what Ishmaelites do.....spread confusion....even out and out lies..about the nature of a thing in front of us.


My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

Carabou,

This...

This is called today..."Democide" or death by ones own government....death by democracy.

This is why I do not like the term so often used/misused by many ....democracy. Because it tends to deceive and misdirect people about the true nature of history and governments.


Democide...death by ones own government versus Genocide...death by another government.


Here from Wiki..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide


Down in the Wiki article there is a very interesting statement and one for which will seldom be told by the news media constantly spinning and deceiving their audience as well as public school systems including colleges...and that is this statement by R. J. Rummel...

A very interesting statement and one for which most governments, seeking to increase their power over people and nations ...never want anyone to know or think their way through any real history.


My non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris

 

The enfield was the hunting rifle of choice for many when I was a teen. We ordered them out of the Sears catalogue. It’s dated now but still a quality firearm.

 

Lonewolf it isn't the cities that make people weak and antigun/antihunting. It is the people that do it. The Houston/Galveston, Dallas/Fort Worth and SanAntonio/Austin metroplexes are huge and heavily populated and just filled with gun-loving hunters, gun stores and shooting ranges. Conversely, you can look at the hell holes like Chicago, Detroit, LA, DC and New York City and see the same problem that you have in Brittian. Sheep huddle up in groups. They then run off the bossy shepherd dogs and soon start to whine as the wolves return and start to eat them. Any time a group of people informs the world that they are choosing to be victims and make no effort to defend themselves it is just a matter of time before someone comes and starts taking what they want from them.

 

I don't have a problem with people that prefer to not own guns or even if they wish to offer themselves up to criminals as defenseless snacks. What does bother me is that they want to force me to live like that huddled in fear and refusing to take any personal responsibility for my safety. To me, this is a sickness. It is like someone that doesn't want medicine to treat their physical illness AND they also want to deny me the medicine too. As far as I'm concerned we need to split the sheet. The USA is heading towards the same hell that has taken over the British people. No guns, no safety, and the thugs slowly taking over their cities.

We have already surrendered a lot of the once-great cities. Chicago, Detroit and a lot of other cities have basically given up on any real effort to control the gangs and the endless violence. Even if there was a way to make all guns magically vanish those people wouldn't suddenly become Sunday School Teachers. I don't see having some thug cutting me up as ANY great advantage over him shooting at me!!! Guns make people equal. A man that is only 5 feet tall is just as able to defend himself with a gun as a 7-foot tall hulk.

 

"Guns make people equal. A man that is only 5 feet tall is just as able to defend himself with a gun as a 7-foot tall hulk"? I find that a strange way to look at things. Whilst, in theory, that may be true, but arm both and you have an escalating situation. Expanded to a grand scale one ends up with the mutually assured destruction scenario of the Cold War. I prefer to think that the edge would always be through intelligence and an awareness of one's surroundings, rather than a firearm.

Given the horrors of the many mass shootings in the US recently, and looking in from outside, the US (apparent) obsession with forearms appears unhealthy to many. I do support freedom of choice in matters such as gun ownership, however it does seem (again from the outside) that perhaps a more stringent process to obtain firearms might benefit the US.

 

What a stupid statement. I carry every single day now. I actually find myself being more careful and less belligerent even to assholes. An armed society is a polite society for several reasons. You know that with a weapon at hand all the time, you know that death is very close for you or for someone else. Do you want to be an ass to someone knowing that they may overreact? When you know that your life could be on the line for every action, you examine your actions closely and think carefully.

Again, read what I said above.

 

Writing from a outside Canadian perspective. Yes there have been some mass shootings in the US of late but the media numbers are vastly distorted as to what constitutes a mass shooting. The US ranks somewhere around 60th in the world, sorry don’t have the data in front of me. If the cities with the tightest gun laws are factored out the US is in the bottom 1% of homicide by firearms, don’t let propaganda foo, you.

I grew up with firearms, we used to leave rifles and shotguns in our pickups at school. No one ever got shot. No one ever got all Rambo. Law biding firearm owners and guns have never been the issue. What they don’t report on is the number of crimes stopped by people with legal firearms, I read a number a couple years ago for the US and it was in excess of 100,000 a year. More lives saved than lost.

The firearms laws in Canada aren’t quite draconian yet, but the push is there from “progressive” I.e. socialist, globalist ... elements in our society and government. It has nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with control.

If you aren’t comfortable with firearms that’s a personal choice. If it’s because of the hype, do you own research and you will find it’s not the problem they make it out to be. When I see what the media in Europe portrays about theAmericans in general I can only say that their bias is incredible.

Are there some a**holes in the US? Of course but most are damn fine folks. Has the US government made some bad policy decisions at times? Yes but so has my government and yours? Who has bailed out Europe and most of world many times? That sam3 damn annoying yanks.

Hug an American and buy them a gun. They are less than perfect but the world is a better place because of them

End if rant

 

For those of you who live media lives....what I often refer to as a television and or movie life....think about this....

Democide...death by ones own government ......versus Genocide...death by another government.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide


Now down in the article you will find this statement....

The primary purpose of our 2nd Amendment is to protect us from the historical excesses of government....Not for hunting...or individual protection...which is understood by any Freedom understanding American and implicit in ownership of arms.....but to protect us from the natural whoredoms and excesses of government.

The tendency of governments to do evil...to become non representative governments.....governments not representing their people....but some other hidden and concealed....interests.


Also something of which I am well aware .....concerning government and in particular this government here in America......their hypocritical stance on gun ownership.


This government is known to arm many nations who then turn those arms on their own people.....democide.....

Yet we cannot be trusted with arms????

A government which will not trust their people to be armed...will not trust them with a vote....will not trust them with their own children..with their own monies, with their own opinions...views....with their own religion.



And Brexit clearly demonstrates this dictum to me....among other things going on out there.


We are not Englishmen here....nor Continentals.....and have no desirer to become subjects.....nor Internationalist subjects.


Some of us are very well aware of the history which was never allowed to be taught in public schools.....and even worse today....not dared to be taught..

But I am teaching it privately to people who can see , hear , and understand.....beyond the Kardashians, and other such sports distractions...to people who can and will still think for themselves.


Much to do with the founding of the United States and why it was so ...took place right here in Virginia. Many of the Founders where from Here in Virginia....in particular our local firebrand...Patrick Henry.

Some of us have not forgotten ....what our current government does not want us to know....

We are not Englishmen nor Continentals ..and have no desire to so become....nor Internationalists.

And we are proud of any leader who will still so declare...for us. And it is about time....long overdue for us.


Such leaders who have not been seduced into the internationalist nonsense ...is very very difficult to find today.


All of the first ten Amendments in our Constitution were designed as limits on government...not on the people...also something not taught to our young people today....and for good reason....

To facilitate the movement into Internationalist/English systems of governments....subjects..not citizens.



It was Oliver Cromwell...an Englishman..who was to set the precedent for us here in America.... that when a King had broken the law....committed Treason...the people could turn on their King...

And so did the Roundheads....under Cromwell...turn on their King .....their Government.


Our Amendments are to protect us from the Excesses or natural whoredoms of government...all of them including the 2nd Amendment.

Not for hunting or individual protection but from the whoredoms and treasons of government.....Ishmaelites run wild.


My Non Ishmaelite .02,
Watcherchris.

 

Be very very careful what one thinks is nutters....

Under a whorish government ..anyone with a different view/opinion will be labeled a nutter....for the purposes of "Herding."
Also for silencing dissent....to whorish policies. And a whorish media...shilling for just such an government will cheer it on while it is happening.

Labeled Mental..and a danger to society....

You folks have that going on aplenty in your country while doing nothing about crime or injury to people doing about t heir daily business.

And so too will it become here....under the whoredom of "Enlightened " thinking. Ishmaelites run wild. Subjects and not Citizens.


It is Americans with their firearms production and capabilities who where to bail out Europe..twice in the last century..while they seem never to learn but constantly let the wolf in the door.
We need to stop bailing out others and take care of our own nation and people.



My Non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

The problem with the idea of tightened security checks or getting is that the nut jobs don’t typically use legally obtained firearms. Instead of making more laws enforce the existing ones and put those whose use firearms behind bars. In the few gun free zones like Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit etc. Kick out the existing government, enforce tha law and allow the average citizen to protect themselves. People are going to kill each other and having done so ever since Cain and Abel has their little spat.

Now if one doesn’t believe the biblical account and looks to survival of the fittest, arm everyone and let them kill each other off that way the strongest will survive and the human race will be better for it (said totally tongue in cheek).

Unfortunately, short of divine intervention, I think the world has drifted to the point where it’s going to take a devastating reset to get things back in order. The empire (and by that I meanWestern civilization) is on the verge of collapse from the inside and the outside. Capitalism and democracy are flawed institutions but they beat an6 of the others hands down. I’m old enough that I won’t have to endure most of it, but I do worry about my grandchildren’s future. As a Christian, I know that God has a plan, but I also know He chastens His people and has allowed them to go into Babylon before. In terms of prosperity, education and security, I am afraid we have peaked, or are on the crest of the peak and the down slide will be rough.

Sorry to the OP, I have digressed quite a bit from the original, but the topic has many rabbit trails.

What can we do? Kick out the corrupt politicians. Send the immigrants who don’t want to conform to our societal norms back where they came from. Lifetime incarceration for repeat violent offenders. Work for welfare. Stop spending billions of dollars in foreign aid to sh*ithole corrupt countries. Take back our manufacturing. Buy local. Grow our own. Teach people it’s okay to work with their hands. For those who hate and seek to undermine our countries, deport them, revoke their citizenship. Send them to Venezuela or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Mandatory military service or some equivalent. Put the crooked bankers in jail. Demand an accounting for every dollar the government spends. Term limits for politicians. Streamline the courts, reduce the number of laws and regulations into a simpler more common sense approach. Cut the number of civil service jobs (outside of law enforcement and military) by at least half. Get rid of fractional banking and fiat currency and replace it with a currency backed by tangible assets. Is it likely to happen? No, not without a system reset.

In the interim we prep to the best of our abilities. Speak the truth to those who will listen. Vote. Pray.

I am a law biding, tax paying, gun owning, straight, married, conservative leaning libertarian, capitalistic, Caucasian, Christin white male in his sixties. I am everything the left hates they don’t want my input on what needs to change. They would sooner that I just go away.

 

By The InnKeeper,

Amen on that The InnKeeper....Amen on that!!!

Watcherchris

Not An Ishmaelite.


In Isaac shall thy seed be called!!! Not in Ishmael.


Someone is trying to switch the entire world to the line of Ishmael and away from Isaac....and his seed....singular.

Ishmael=bondage...with her children.

 

Ah well, that is a different argument altogether. You are probably more likely to be killed with a hammer in the UK due to the easier accessibility to hammers. The difference is that people don't wander into schools and kill people with hammers - at least not in the UK.

 

Hammers aside ... the UK isn’t all that different from the US despite what the distorted media tells you.
Despite very tight gun control shootings are on the increase at least in London

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5971706/london-shootings-2018-kinsbury-forest-gate/

Here’s some real data about mass shooting. The US actually isn’t all that different from the EU

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/c...m-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

I’ll let you do your own research but countries with high levels of firearm ownership have lower homicide rates. The statistical anomaly with the US relates almost exclusively to areas of the US where firearms are heavily restricted or unavailable to the average citizen.

 

0.015 compared to 0.089 - not much difference? Really?? Multiply that up to a higher common denominator and you will see.

Please do not confuse the rise in gun crime in London with incidents of mass shooting. The London business is an active drug war, most weapons used in those shootings are not legally obtained (illegal imports, many from Russia, and converted replicas) and the general populace are relatively unaffected, with the victims mainly being participants in the war itself.

Oh and by the way, the last mass shooting in the UK (that was not wholly terror related was Dunblane - look it up - and guns in the UK are not really the business of US citizens.

 

Actually they are both in the range of error for the survey. While no mass deaths from mass shootings would be ideal less that 1 per million people is actually pretty small compared to say drunk drivers, medical errors etc. While it makes for sensational news it isn’t the epidemic that the politicians and media portray it. It is being pushed as part of a political agenda. It’s the same for the number of “school shootings”, the numbers are inflated because reporting now includes any shooting in, on or near a school regardless of the nature. It blows a small but real problem out of proportion.

True most of the London shootings were not mass attacks.

Since 1970 there have been more than 3000 terrorist deaths in the UK, now in probability most of those were related to the Ireland issue, but don’t think you are immune.

I love your last comment, it’s quite ironic. Firstly I’m not an American, secondly you have no problem participating in a discussion which includes the US gun problem (even if that wasn’t the intent of the OP) but get your knickers in a knot when some counters with something UK related so pick which way you want it.

 

Wow!!!!

I was waiting for something like this ....while holding my tongue....well said...well said..

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

A few points.

Most of the shootings in the US are gang bangers. ( criminal elements shooting other criminal elements and almost all of them are in gun controlled cities)

More deaths occur by other means than guns. (Gun deaths in the US are a very small proportion to other means of death.)

The Amendments to the US Constitution are limits on governments and not rights given to the people. ( The people are given these rights by God.)

The US has these items in their constitution due to tyranny by the British on the early settlers in the US.

If you take away people's firearms and they want to kill they will simply use another weapon. (Obvious by the rise in knifing in countries that do not allow weapons.)

Brits are notorious for voicing their opinions all over the Internet about American's gun rights or even commenting on photos posted showing US citizens with firearms. This is pretty ironic when in fact they are the cause of US Citizens having and keeping the right to bear arms.
(IE my original image post in this thread.)

I feel at some point citizens who have given up their weapons always wish they hadn't.

 

To protect society from someone who should not own firearms is the short answer to that question.

 

I'd be interested in reading your data.

Here http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/

The USA comes tenth out of they top twenty countries...the other nineteen countries are pretty much all third world nations, the USA is the only major country to hit the list.

 

It doesn't work. Criminals who want guns will not obey laws meant to stop them from getting guns. If they did obey laws, maybe we could just outlaw murder and assault.

 

If you remove the socialist paradises of chicago, detroit, and 3 or 4 other dhimmirat shit holes we drop down to among the lowest murder rates in the world. Gun control is all about control. It has nothing to do with saving lives.

 

So am I allowed to discuss firearms in the UK now as well?

From the article you linked ...

“In 2015, the United States was actually number sixty-six on the list of countries in terms of mass shooting rates according to a study done by the Crime Prevention Research Center. In this study, looking at the United States alongside all the countries in Europe alone, the United States has the 12th highest mass shooting rate. A few of the European countries with a higher mass shooting rate than the United States include Russia, Norway, France, Switzerland and Finland. More recent studies about mass shootings by country are still being conducted.”

The truth is no one really knows the exact numbers for any of the countries because there is no consistent standard. Even the way the US and the UK report homicide numbers differs...

https://rboatright.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html

Even if we accept the higher numbers from the US as being accurate there is still less than 1 mass shooting death per million. Having none would be great, but one per million is hardly epidemic or crisis.

 

@duke in wales got confused there for a moment, I thought I was talking to @Brownbear hence the comment about talking about UK guns. Sorry for any confusion

 

America has numerous mass casualty events because the mainstream media promotes copy-cat killings -- especially if firearms are used. Copycat killers are following copycat killers they read about in the media's reports on "gun violence". The media forbids the publishing of the word "copycat killer". The media always includes the phrase "gun violence" six or more times in such articles. This is all part of their war on Christianity and the U.S. Constitution.

A Muslim terrorist in France stole a large truck, drove it into a crowd, and killed 86, over 300 were injured. Communist press played that one down because the politically correct mantras are 1) Muslims do not commit terrorist attacks (if they do, then it is the fault of Israel); 2) Only those appointed by a central government run by only the elite of society are allowed the use of firearms; the inferior serfs are to remain unarmed. These mantras are readily accepted by peoples who are OK with being spiritually raped (and now days, physically raped also) -- so long as they get their gruel and grog.

Armed-to-the-teeth European-Americans have the same crime rates as their European cousins of European origin. Crime is going up in Great Britain and continental Europe due to the importation of people given to violence due to their lack emotional control (insufficient frontal lobe activity).

 

[QUOTE="
I love your last comment, it’s quite ironic. Firstly I’m not an American, secondly you have no problem participating in a discussion which includes the US gun problem (even if that wasn’t the intent of the OP) but get your knickers in a knot when some counters with something UK related so pick which way you want it.[/QUOTE]

Firstly, let me be very clear about this - I am not "getting my knickers in a knot" about anything - I think you are being plain rude and offensive in saying that. You will also recall that the thread started as some people taking the piss out of brits where gun ownership is concerned. Other people on this thread have repeatedly mentioned the difference in the population demographic as a key part of the difference, but no, people keep on moaning and trying to enforce a (misinformed) view on us.

I'm leaving this thread now as, quite frankly, I am fed up with it.

 

Lets put the British gun ownership on the table. In very basic terms:

Shotgun certificate is pretty easy to get, you need landowners permission to shoot and a secure storage case, pump action is allowed but the amount of rounds is limited to three including the one in the chamber.

FAC, Fire Arms Certificate. Again quite straightforward to get, join a rifle club, train and shoot there for some months, be of good character, , don't mind a background check, sane, have a secure way of storing your rifles at home that match the legal requirements, don't object to a Police inspection prior to getting your ticket and other periodic inspections after you get your ticket.

When you get your FAC you can't just jump in the car and buy a .50 sniper rifle, you need to work your way up the chain (if the UK don't ban .50's). Also some issues with some centre fire rifles.

Pistols are pretty much banned, you can own black powder hand guns and you can own a LBR, Long Barreled Revolvers if the length of the barrel is 12" or more as they are looked at as rifles, so you can buy your very own Dirty Harry gun. I don't know much about this area to be honest. When I'm in Spain

Shooting is a hobby that is gaining popularity in the UK and we have a fine heritage as gunmakers.

So no more talk of us poor brits who can't own a firearm, thats bollocks we are just a lot more thorough in who we allow to own them which makes absolute sense to me.

 

No problems LW, I'm interested in he or she's views on UK gun legislation.

 

He'll need to be a financial advisor if he takes up shooting

 

The prone position is one of the best ways to fire any rifle and is encouraged with beginners and old timers alike.

 

He should be OK, as a first weapon he's not going to be buying an elephant gun, he might be building it up to more than it is.

Hampshire is a nice part of the country, I own a property down there that we rent out, just about inside the Winchester boundaries. Its a very historic part of the world, you can't dig in your garden without finding a Roman pot

 

Get a shotgun chitty, great fun.

 

I own and very much like my Enfield rifle...

However..mine is calibrated in .308 Winchester or what is sometimes called the NATO 7.62 x 51mm Cartridge.

I chose this calibration simply because of Logistics...the .308 Winchester is available in this country coast to coast. I can reload .308 Winchester as well as 30.06 calibration. I have also taught myself to make .308 brass from 30.06 brass if need be.
Same thing with .243 brass from .308 brass.


As to the Enfield rifle ..it is a rock solid rifle..and mine is a Ishapore Enflield model...and shoots well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishapore_2A1_rifle


However the Enfield is a heavy rifle....though rock solid.


Today many companies have capitalized on the Enfield magazine fed design with todays lighter materials.

I have also purchased one of these.....on the Enfield Magazine fed design..much much lighter than a full battle ready Enfield rifle.


https://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-patrol-rifle-27738/


Nonetheless...the Enfield is a rock solid design and has stood the harsh test of time.


My recently acquired Fairbairn Sykes knife also resides in the zip up case with my Ishapore Enfield rifle as well as the p1944 model bayonet for it.

Last item to complete this rifle will be the issue cartridge belt for it.


Thanks,
Watcherchris

 

Quick check on English colloquialisms ... what is “chitty”

 

Why should I be documented by the government to own a firearm or use a firearm. That only leads to list of people who own weapons and can be used against them at any time the government decides to come get guns. I don't want to be registered, certified or licensed in any way concerning any firearms. It is no one's business but mine.