Cigarettes For Barter?

Discussion in 'Other Useful Objects' started by CivilDefense, Jun 2, 2017.

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  1. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    So, I don't, no one in my family, and no one in our mutual assistant group (MAG) smokes cigarettes. It is, after all, an unhealthy, expensive, and disgusting habit. However, there are a lot of people in this area that suck on cancer sticks. It has crossed my mind to buy a cartoon or two of cigs for barter purposes for thoses that "got to have it".

    Anyone socking away such a thing? Do cigarettes go bad and, if so, how do you preserve them? Do you have any moral qualms about using such items for barter?

    Thanks for sharing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Best barter ... in prison.

    So what is one to do? Can't let it dry. Freezing causes crystals ("freezer burn"). A humidor keeps it best, yet moisture inevitably leads to mold. My mother's father's father simply grew his own (he was of the Cherokee and Scots). Growing one's own I guess is the trick. Burley eats the Earth, sucks the nutrients right out the very dirt. Fertilizer and fertilizer -- add the suckering = a lot'a work, to be sure. Big Burley fills my childhood memories. The aroma fills my nose even now. Tobacco sticks as fertilizer, just the best to get new grass begun; straw upon the grass seeds sewn, water and water, and tobacco sticks to hold it all down. Again the aroma. Throw a tobacco stick on established grass and it'll have the effect of a stretched green cow pie = green green green. Hawk bill knives, young men, strong backs, pockets full of money come the cutting and the hangings, three tiers in the barns, tobacco money in my dad's gambling machines. There will be beef on the table come Saturday.
     
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  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "Moral qualms": What a wide smile steals my face.

    How to get corn to market? Answer: In liquid form, in a barrel, in jugs guarded by straw, after the copper screw. It was the way of the Scots-Irish of Southern Appalachia -- my folk.

    https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-story-of-the-wildest-party-in-white-house-history/

    One hundred thirty years before my day, Andrew Jackson took offices seven miles down the road as an attorney, to become judge. He was a slaver and was hated in this Republican stronghold. Would have been best for all concerned had he drowned in his liquid corn.

    "Moral qualms", a man must do as he must do -- especially the poor man.
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I personally wouldn't store stuff for barter that I couldn't use myself, why use up storage space that could be better used for ones own needs? and I wouldn't store cigarettes, tobacco or alcohol either.
    anyone who is going to barter is assuming there will be someone to barter with, this might not be the case, as the survival rate is expected to be quite low.
     
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  5. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    I'm a former smoker. Thank God... smokes are perishable and I have no need for them. Alcohol can be stored for a long long time. Possibly good barter item that can also be used for antiseptic, anesthetic & enjoyed on special occasions. Seems more practical IMHO
     
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  6. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I don't smoke so it wouldn't interest me. I wouldn't store something for barter that another person could be even mildly addicted to because if they couldn't afford the price there is a good chance they'd try to take it by force or theft. A situation best avoided.
     
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  7. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    I agree, there is some risk either way. If someone thinks you have something they can take there is a risk.
     
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  8. Tina Thompson

    Tina Thompson New Member
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    That's a great idea and a very good bartering item. I suck on those cancer sticks myself, and if I didn't have any and had something to trade for them, you'd definitely have my business. I know they're bad, hopefully one day I'll quit. Guarantee people will be looking for those.
     
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  9. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    I think that cigarettes will be an awesome bartering item. It will definitely be something people want, stale or not. They are light so carrying a carton or two won't weigh you down. I am going to have a few cartons but up for bartering purposes.
     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Get your barter items ready. Here comes the electronic mark of the beast.

    https://leohohmann.com/2021/08/04/d...lure-many-into-the-one-world-cashless-system/

    "Digital health passports: The snare that will lure many into the one-world cashless system

    "Several new technologies that appear separate and unrelated will soon converge, creating a giant digital trap that will easily entice the uninformed masses.

    "The digital trap has already been set and globalist elites are using COVID to speed up the process of convergence. Most people will sleep-walk right into the trap, which will ultimately reduce them to a human QR code – trackable, traceable, and 100 percent dependent on Big Tech and big government for their existence.

    "An academic consortium consisting of six universities already has a contract with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to provide training for government, law enforcement, healthcare and private-sector stakeholders on how to quarantine “large portions” of rural communities.

    "But the drive to digitize the lives of Americans will start in the cities and move outward."
    .
     
  11. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    In my humble opinion, the best barter item during an economic collapse will be heritage / heirloom seeds. A lot of hungry people are going to need / want to grow their own food. Seeds will not take up much storage space and will last a very long time. Tobacco will go very stale and most likely, those addicted will get over the craving very quickly, unlike some alcoholics who may die during the detox period. If the collapse is a WROL event, then I would not advise doing any form of barter.
     
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  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Cigarettes and booze will always have some trade value but may also be dangerous to hold and let it be known. I have seen an alcohaulic steal from his Mom. Things are going to be stressful and if they know you have it they may just decide to take it. It is like any adictive drug and has issues. If I ever need it I will make my own but don't want a large stock of it on hand.

    Seeds, books of all kinds, ammo, drugs of all sorts, they will all have value but also will have some issues if too many people find out about what you have. I plan on looking poor and not let anyone get too close until things settle down. THEN trade may be worthwhile. A still isn't a hard or complex thing to make. Alchohol boils off at 78C/173F so all you have to do is fermint and then boil off the hooch at a little less than 93c/200F. If you get too hot and go over 100c/212F you will polute it with water that evaporates at that point. I have seeds for various popular plants stored and have plenty of land to grow what I need and wish for trade.

    We will not have much trouble here with food, especially meat. The hunting is good here but then there are LOTS of cattle, goats and pigs both wild and domestic. The river is full of fish and there are ponds evertwhere here. People in the bigger cities will have a problem. Smaller towns probably will last a lot longer. My Dad had enough property in his yard to grow a lot of food but people in appartments and side by side urban appaertments will be pressed for food almost immediatly.
     
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    barter or trade will not be possible immediately post collapse and may not even be possible for many, many decades afterwards.
    even trying to find someone else with anything to trade could be an exercise in futility and will probably not be safe to do so.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    There's the total collapse scenarios, but then there are the scenarios wherein society goes downhill bit by bit. Still another scenario is one in which cities will be total chaos, but the countryside will still possess a degree of civilization. Thing is that a monetary collapse is now a certainty. Fiat money is going to die.

    Truth be told, people already barter. People barter and do not pay taxes on their trade. In any given economy, the black market constitutes somewhere between 30% and 40% of trade. This is why the elitists wish to go to all electronic "money"; the inferiors must tax the people who actually work.
    .
     
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  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I doubt if there is much barter over here especially in cities where most dont know and dont want to know their neighbours, due to some tenancy rules neighbours can come and go in less than 6 months.
    I've traded the odd vegetable or fruit on occasion and sometimes a garden hand tool but most people hardly even use cash these days its all credit and debit cards.
     
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  16. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Got some work done, back to Mr. Personal Computer ...

    Things are polarized and beyond here in The States. The urban/suburban worlds and the rural worlds are utterly divorced. In the cities, people do not even speak to each other most of the time and people do their best to ignore each other.

    Here in rural / tiny-town America, strangers will spontaneously start-up conversations. People of multiple races get along just fine for the most part. In the past three weeks, I've had two black guys open a door for me (I'm European glow-in-the-dark white) and I've been a part of and have witnessed multiple ( how many? I d'know) conversations between people of varying races/mixed-race. If I make eye-contact with another person, we both nod or even say "howdy".

    In urban areas, there are areas where the police enter only in convoy. If the police see a white family get off an interstate highway to get gas at a station located in a minority neighborhood, these cops will stop, warn them, and sometimes escort them back to the interstate highway.

    In this small town where we live there are on-going farmers' markets. Hardware stores carry parts for farm tractors. Garden centers sell-out their stores each year. Just a few weeks back, I was handed a carton of eggs that a fellow had left over and knew were going to go to waste -- his chickens had out-egged his family (even though they have a bunch of kids). During a winter, I once split the power-feed out of my generator to help provide electricity to a neighbor's house. People run to the aid of others in trouble. We may not be any Norman Rockwell poster, yet the foundations of civilization still have uncracked foundations.

    Allow me to repeat; There are two separate Americas.

    The differences between the two Americas is BEYOND STARK!

    There is nothing subtle about this situation whatsoever. This is THE root cause of the massive political polarization people of other countries witness when reading about or visiting the US. The U.S. Congress might as well have representatives from different countries, for such is the reality of the situation.

    Everyone should stop using the term "United States". We are no longer united in any way.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
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  17. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    You are very right Old Geezer in that there are HUGE differences between the rural and urban sociaties and the people that live in those differing places. Maybe it is that when you live out in the country you don't have people rubbing up on you from all sides you are more willing to feel a shared contact with them. Neighbors that have a little space enjoy getting together but peope in appartments seem to now know eachother much at all unless they knew eachother beforethey moved in.

    Even out in the country though it is changing as people are not as likly to gather as they used to. I think that the danm (yes I know that isn't how damn is spelled. Danm is my name and initial and if I think something is stupid and harmful it is danm stupid) TV is the worst thing that ever happened to sociaty.
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    it has become noticeable in Britain at least these days strangers do not make eye contact, most walk around with their faces facing the floor or walk past looking neither right nor left, of course most are on their mobile device or have headphones in, they certainly dont strike up conversations, I have tried and given up due to the lack of response and sometimes downright ignorance, it seems people are too afraid to interact with others for some reason, for the most part "community" dosent exist anymore apart from in small towns like this.
     
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  19. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
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    I used to smoke cigarettes, stopped 30 years ago. Of all the people that i know only one of a couple of hundred still smoke cigarettes.
    so in my my opinion your market is very small. try something else people want.
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    the British govt intends to make the UK a country of non smokers within the next decade so after that any market for cigarettes or tobacco would cease to exist, SHTF or not.
     
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  21. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    LOL, Lonewolf if they COULD do this then they would have ended heroin addiction and more of the other illegal addictive drug use a LONG time ago. Governments talk a good show but in actuality they are mostly ineffective in making people NOT do whatever they want to do.

    All that this would accomplish is to make more people into criminals and line the pockets of organized crime by offering them ANOTHER illegal substance to offer for sale. If people want to smoke let them. What they should and do regulate is where they can do it. It is nice to go to a nice restaurant now and have a good meal without having to smell someone else’s cigar or cigarettes.

    PS: I say this as someone that smoked 3 to 4 packs of nonfiltered cigarettes a day for about 30 years until I finally quit them about 20 years ago. My Dad died with emphasima and my Mom had lung cancer and I still didn't stop until 10 years later so I well understand the adiction. It is a BEAST but can be beat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I dont want any addictions and I dont want anyone with any addictions near me post SHTF, I gave up smoking in 1995-I used to smoke roll your own and a pipe, and we both stopped drinking in 2000.
    as for stopping people smoking, the UK govt could make smoking illegal in all public places both indoors and outside, they could stop cigarettes being made here and being imported all they have to do is to pass the relevant law. I'm actually surprised anyone still smokes in this country now knowing what it can do to peoples lungs and general health.
     
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  23. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    UK smokers are getting less and less year on year, same goes for booze with the younger generation turning away from both, they will be a fitter generation than people in their 40s and older (and the kids are exercising more on average).

    That said, more smokers are using vape and I'd guess the vape liquids will store longer than tobacco and take up less space so you could think about that option and a heck of a lot cheaper to buy than a pack of smokes. I just looked at UK fag (brit slang for a cigarette) prices and its about £11/$15 for a pack of 20!!!!!!!
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I dont think vaping is any better or safer, I read one time about one of these things exploding!
    smoking is getting a hobby for only the wealthy, only they can afford it.
     
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  25. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Legendary Survivalist
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    I agree, Lonewolf. Vaping is not safe. We have just traded the more known evils of smoking tobacco for the lesser known and lesser studied evils of the chemicals used in vaping. Popcorn Lung for one, has become an issue. “Popcorn lung” is another name for bronchiolitis obliterans (BO), a rare condition that results from damage of the lungs’ small airways. This is caused by diacetyl, which is the flavoring agent used in vaping.

    To get back to the original thread, I personally do not keep cigarettes for barter. From my experience as a smoker they will go bad, maybe not to the point of being unusable, but the tobacco will dry out, and they will not taste the same. That might not bother a truly addicted smoker who has to have cigarettes. That said, from what I have read about the Bosnian war, cigarettes and alcohol were two of the prized possessions for bartering. We have a significant supply of alcohol, but that can also be used for other purposes, and if things are bad enough, personal consumption.
     
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  26. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    As bad as Bic lighters mate ;)

    Smoking and vaping are both filthy habits IMO and I feel genuinely sorry for nicotine addicts who can't stop, its a nasty highly addictive drug.
     
  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    yes, more addicts to add to the list of those who wont get their fix post collapse.
     
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  28. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In the South, people distill their own whiskey and grow their own tobacco.

    For the past few decades, people here have been growing their own weed ... the smokable variety. Narc on someone and you get to be next year's fertilizer.



    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I've known someone that happened to, not the fertiliser part but they disappeared off the face of the planet very quickly, that can happen when someone speaks to the wrong person or people. especially in some circles.
     
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  30. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Making tobacco illegal will only make more people involved with the drugs. I am not sure that it wouldn't be more profitable for the dealers than heroin. It is hard to keep people from doing things that can be made or home grown. They tried it with alcohol and that was a disaster.

    I like that they restrict it in public places now to a certain extent but it is STUPID to make it into another cash cow for the drug dealers. Besides that I’m not sure that the government can afford to ban tobacco. They make a fortune taxing it. They tried making alcohol illegal and that didn’t work at ALL.

    Personally, I think making drugs that are not addictive illegal is just a sign of ignorance. Tobacco is an addictive beast while Marijuana is non-addictive. You can’t OD on pot like you can on alcohol or narcotics so exactly what are they protecting people from? Old potheads are a hell of a lot healthier than old alcoholics. They SAY that it is a gateway drug but if that is true then tobacco and alcohol are equally if not more of a threat. They ARE addictive!! I liked pot but it NEVER led me to have any desire to poke a needle in my vein!!!

    I would rather my kid smoke a little pot than drink or smoke tabaco. Cancer sticks hit both of my parents. Emphysema for my Dad and lung Cancer for my Mom. I smoked a bail of pot and gave up cigarettes and am kissing 70 in the butt with no lung issues at all. There were too many bad examples of what booze will do for you in my family so I never was big on drinking much.

    I guess a little weed is my only vice. DANM I’m getting boring in my old age!!!
     
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  31. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    The old dopeheads may be in physically better shape than a pisshead but mentally they could have a lot of problems. Some of the Kush people are smoking is really messing with their heads and bodies.

    I suppose the bottom line is moderation in things you know will hurt you if you abuse them. I will admit I love a good (quality) wine/spirit/beer especially with good food but its rare I get shitefaced on booze, very rare.
     
  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    it depends what one is smoking, the old fashioned cannabis was relaxing and made me want to lay back and go to sleep back in the day, not that I did much in the way of drugs, just a couple of "spliffs" at parties, but the modern Skunk variety is by all accounts something else and should be avoided.
    mind you I've known of quite a few people that drank themselves to death.
    I've always said I wont smoke anything or drink anything alcoholic post collapse as I want to keep my mind clear for anything that occurs, so there wont be any of either in our house.
     
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  33. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    With alcohol, fool your enemies into imagining that you are their buddy.

    Get them good and drunk.

    Pop them in the head.

    Take their sh##.
     
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  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "Palantir Buys Over $50 Million Of Gold Bars: 'Preparing For A Future With More Black Swans'"

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/palantir-buys-gold-bars-preparing-future-more-black-swans

    "Anyone watching Tuesday's US market cash session sees red across the board. One of the strongest sell programs in months dumped stocks at the start of trading on Tuesday, and equity volatility spiked to the upside. As Nomura warned looking the arcane gamma topology underpinning the market, this could be the beginning of a market storm. And ahead of what could be further market turmoil, Palantir Technologies warned about an upcoming 'black swan event,' according to Bloomberg.

    "The software company, co-founded by the technology billionaire Peter Thiel and CEO Alex Karp, wrote in a filing last week that it stockpiled $50.7 million in gold bars earlier this month. The filing also said it acquired technology startups, blank-check companies, and even cryptocurrencies.

    "Palantir had previously said it would accept Bitcoin as a form of payment for its services, along with payment in precious metals (however Bloomberg quoted a spokeswoman from Palantir who said no clients have paid in Bitcoin or gold yet).

    "Shyam Sankar, the COO of Palantir, said accepting nontraditional forms of payment 'reflects more of a worldview,' adding: 'you have to be prepared for a future with more black swan events.'

    "Palantir's 100-ounce gold bars are expected to be stored in an undisclosed vault in the US Northeast.

    "Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale was quoted not too long ago, saying, "idiots are running the Fed." Lonsdale was referencing the unconventional monetary policy that has helped balloon the national debt by over $5 trillion since early March 2020, to $28.4 trillion and set the US dollar on collision course with loss of reserve status.

    "Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg tweeted about Palantir's gold buying and warning of another 'black swan event' by saying: 'When the spooks tell you a false flag is coming, a false flag is coming."'
    .
     
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  35. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I think that the idea that pot in any way reduces your mental abilities is just part of the stupid crap that they tried to sell us in the 60s and 70s about the horrors of the devil weed. Hell, I used to be a professional college entrance exam taker and my best scores were when I was shall we say very relaxed.

    There are a lot of people that I took their entrance exams for. Back then you filled out the papers and took the test. You were pretty much whoever you said you were. My best score, not in my name, was an almost perfect 1765. They wanted a 800 to 900 to just get in and then 1200 to 1500 got you into a lot of the scholarship funds. The old entrance exams were a game more than a test and like any game there were tricks and ways to get what you wanted. I was always good at testing. I like to read and will read anything including text book and such.

    I really HATED school with a pink and purple passion. I dropped out for a year then tried to go back and just couldn’t tolerate the stupidity and arrogance of the teachers. They didn’t like me much either. I worked a full time job on the night shift and then went to school. I would read the book and then sleep in class and still make straight A’s on their tests.

    If all they were going to do is repeat what the book said why have a person do it. I wasn’t rude. I sat in the back and didn’t snore. At night at work I read and did any home work on break. I think that I pissed a couple of them off when they bitched at me for sleeping or not paying attention in class I showed them my pay check stub. Hell, I was working nearly 75 hours. 40 hours straight pay then 22 hours of time and a half over time and 12 hours of double time over time each week adds up FAST.

    I finally just took the SAT and moved on. Not everyone is able to go off to college and not everyone wants to. The skilled trades back then were begging for people. The kids all wanted to go to college and be middle management and that is part of why so much of our manufacturing went overseas. I sort of absorbed skills like a sponge.



    .
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      I've smoked a lot of weed (during high school) and it didn't knock my brain down. Did super well in academics at university -- at least the math/science side. Known a lot of people smarter than me who smoked more dope than me and they retained their smarts. Now I will say this, if one doesn't control it or doesn't know when enough is enough, sure, they can zap brain cells / IQ points. As to alcohol, I've never known an alcoholic who got past age 50 without personality and intellectual impairment. Alcohol is FAR more dangerous than ganja.
       
      Old Geezer, Aug 18, 2021
  36. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Just a note on cigarette prices in the UK. The massive taxation that has caused the extortionate prices of a pack of 20 cigarettes has also caused a huge industry in smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes. HM customs and local Trading Standards are fighting a losing battle to prevent them being shipped into the country and sold from under the counter.
    There are still plenty of smokers out there and already criminal gangs willing to profit from them.
    Smoking weed can have very serious effects on young people's ability to produce dopamine, the lack of which can lead to depression and long term mental illness. I don't know if/doubt it actually effects a persons IQ or "smarts" but it certainly effects a person's ability to concentrate, their reaction speed and ability to think things through rationally.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
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