Code Of Conduct For Disaster Zone Research ?

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Pragmatist, Nov 20, 2019.

0/5, 0 votes

  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03534-z


    Good afternoon all,

    Per title.

    Article has some good pictures.

    Many, if not most, scholars are just laity outside their field of scholarship. Researcher rights are determined by the government granting the visa.

    This just in: "There is no universal definition of ethical behaviour [sic],..".

    This just in: "funding streams do not always follow local desires".

    The Tokyo Electric Company can provide info on ethics.

    Besides volcanologists, emergency managers, politicians and financiers also argue about evacuations.

    cc: "culture brokers"
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
      480/575

    Blog Posts:
    0
    "Violates Researchers Rights" has got to be the stupidest comment I have read lately. Gathering data is a good thing but when the data collectors have this ego problem, then they need to be kept away from the disaster. SIASD
     
  3. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    I don't know where to start writing about this :(. For starter, I consider those so-called researcher are just there for grant money.

    ok let me try to start. What could those so-called researcher researching or collecting data let alone interviewing from something like these ;

    6eac85e6f975f539012c5c8cca068b7f.jpeg

    6eac85e6f975f539012c5c8cca068b7f.jpeg

    Yes those are dead peoples :(. Are they going to collect data as how those peoples dies or interviewing the local as why there are dead bodies still laying on the road side? :rolleyes: Ooops as turn out they actually has done do o_O

    I'm going to write more on this topic tomorrow, I need to get some rest now
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  4. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    AND ...

    Good morning Varuna,

    ...... and also, besides the grant money, nice places to visit.

    These researchers aren't applying to do research around the White Sea or Goma, Democratic Republic of the Congo.

    I am now in the mood for a research trip to Bali.

    Get some rest !
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  5. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    You know to think of it, why those so-called researcher doesn't go to Africa? They have a whole a lot of problem there, not to mention contagious disease & civil war.

    These are the typical reaction from those researcher and those do gooder save the earth NGO when they first hit the ground ;
    • It's so hot here. Where is the nearest air conditioned place?
    • These damn bugs & mosquitoes
    • What smell is this?
    • Where can we get potable water?
    • Where can we buy some foods?
    • When the power will be restore?
    • Where we going to sleep, where is the nearest hotel?
    Back in the aftermath of Palu earthquake & tsunami 2018, the majority of those so-called humanitarian NGO and also researcher were denied entry into the disaster zone. And some of them (EU based) went all the way to make noise about it to their political matron back home (The 4th Reich) who afterward start making inquiry trough diplomatic channel :mad:

    A personal friend of mine whose with one of those EU based (Germany) do gooder save the earth NGO inquire me about it :rolleyes: . I ask her back regarding what kind of supply, equipment, and manpower she brought. And to my complete (and shocking) surprise her team doesn't even have portable power generator, water treatment (virus grade water filter or portable reverse osmosis), let alone any local medical professional and related medical equipments / supplies or the mean of transportation to get there (heavy lift helicopter or STOL capable plane) All her team has was donated used clothings and foods :rolleyes: WTF?! I try to reason with her and show her what my former high school class mate bring with a single chartered B737F and everything that could be pack inside (granted B737F isn't STOL capable, and landing was tricky enough), and her respond was her team couldn't afford all those things :rolleyes:. Well I told her (as politely as I could) that disaster relieve operation isn't cheap and require the proper logistic & manpower with the proper skill set not to mention physical & mental fitness, simply being white (sorry for the use of racial term) and do gooder intend alone won't save others, in fact they would be struggling to survive mother nature themselves.

    FYI the LDS church has typically the first one to respond with humanitarian assistance, and they really know their stuff. Those researcher / NGO should learn from them.

    Forget Bali. It's no longer it what use to be (overcrowded with unruly tourist nowadays). There are plenty of more interesting destinations.

    I assumed you are a 60+ yo? Try consider Lombok, particularly Gili Meno island. The entire Lombok had been hit hard by Earthquake last year (2018) and business there still doing their best to recover. This is Gili Trawangan island (an island in the group) before the 2018 earthquake



    Other destinations (less physically strenuous) ;







    And my own locality :cool:

     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  6. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Good afternoon Varuna,

    Ref "The 4th Reich": LOL !

    Is there any volcanic activity on Lumbok ? That picture does wonders !

    I actually know about Bali. It got ruined like Noumea and Papatee. Too many tourists just fatigues the place. Had heard the Indonesia wants to build about 10 to 12 additional "Bali type" places for the tourism industry. Sharia law can't be in use if FOREX earnings are expected.

    I am more than a decade older than 60...and can feel it. I've been throughout Indonesia from Palembang to Fak Fak and the place with the Komono Dragons. Also throughout Borneo Island.

    If I had the energy, I'd love to visit that place in Sumatra where the pig farm people have wild parties in the shadow of the Sharia laws. Believe there's a volcano nearby.

    Those "researchers" are really a modern version of pirates. They disguise themselves to get the pre-paid trips for their vacations. Your example is perfect: Fraulein friend arrives with no equipment and asks about hotel accommodations.

    Instead of saving the planet, these people need to save themselves. Soon they will learn what even the slow thinking Americans are learning: The party's over.

    ......

    Varuna, on another current post, you wrote that you're still learning all this stuff. After reading "4th Reich", You've arrived ! You know what's going on. The rest is just keeping in the game and working in tandem with the club members.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  7. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Nothing serious, only the 13th century VEI 7 eruption that also trigger Little Ice Age worldwide. Currently the mountain became like this (pre 2018 earthquake) But it takes physical fitness to hike that mountain. Personally I haven;t been to the summit (13000 feet is too high for my lung). I prefer positive pressure (as in underwater)



    I see you've been reading CNN, BBC, NYT, etc or worse US gov't report heh..? Remember what I've said about shithole places?

    I pick those videos from destinations that are physically less strenuous.

    Might wanna stay clear from the like of Palembang

    Prime destination in Sumatra is Lake Toba, you know the volcano that geologist believe to nearly wipe out humanity and also trigger ice age (or something like that)

    Those pig farm made good money from both domestic demand, and exporting to Singapore & Malaysia and no problem whatsoever (unless your are reading those fake news) not to mention they could outcompete imported pig due to their stock having unique taste (free roaming and eating naturally grow jungle plants) However they recently hit hard due to the African swine and they dump the dead pigs downriver into those shithole places region :D:p pretty hilarious really. At least the reptiles inhabitant of the river (salty, water monitor, python) are getting their free meat.

    I kept telling them to learn from the LDS church folks, they really know their stuff. And they typically went deep into the remote region where no reporter / journalist dare to venture. But then again I'm just a poor brown skin (again sorry for the use of racial term) third worlder, what do I know about scientific or engineering compare to those highly educated researcher or do gooder save the earth NGO folks right? :rolleyes:

    Apparently The 4th Reicht love when we bought their stuff rather than buying American stuff. Apparently she stop nagging when we sign the MoU to procure some A-400 Atlas and IRIS-T missile or buying Airbus rather than Boeing
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  8. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Good afternoon Varuna,

    Admittedly, I'm not knowledgeable on the ice ages.

    I glance at BBC and get the pulp NY Times, ... usually no governmental reports unless they're funny or I know who wrote them. Sharia determines investment decisions and group trips. Even if not exercised (Think of the Middle East), the competitor places will get the business. A cruise ship won't dock in some places.

    Pig farms are in the commercial news because of Chinese demand. You mentioned something that's now important for a growing segment of the "upscale" (meaning more expensive products) shopper: "free roaming". I'm sure these creatures are healthier than the "pump 'em up with bio-chemicals" pigs - but what is printed on a label is sometimes not truthful. A related term is "wild caught". Farm fishing in fish pens about 20 km long can be called "wild caught".

    Understand the AirBus procurement. Wasn't there a recent tragedy with an Indonesian Boeing aircraft?
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  9. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Only BBC have offices around South East Asia, but even they keep cranking out of context narrative which is very sad they used to be good even back in the 1990's
    The main reason why western medias (all of them without exception) and gov't report shouldn't be taken as face value is language barrier. Just how is it a media could even understand what happen if they have no local office / corespondent nor does they speak / read the local language? And suddenly those medias could interpret our law of which they do no even understand the language let alone complete lack of legal education background (it took me 6 years to earn my civil law degree). I can even deduce with high confidence that a certain neighbouring country intelligence apparatus doesn't even have anyone (with sufficient security clearance) who speak or could interpret my native language which reflected in their policy making and other aspects.

    Again remember what I've said about shithole places.

    Pig farmer here doesn't exporting to China mostly due to the domestic demand. Beside those Sumatra pigs taste better than those China stock.

    Let face it, something is horribly wrong with B-737 Max. I'm not boarding any plane with suicidal flight computer flying the plane instead of the human pilot. No computer should have more authority than any human.

    BTW this is my logistic planner for mountainous jungle of Sumatra and also the mountainous region of East Java. But also generally applicable for venturing elsewhere within tropical rainforest.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15_gS3qk9w-rmQIkXuoMg0OC3xiO3_YQ-9niQh8OgbNA/edit?usp=sharing
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  10. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Good afternoon Varuna,

    I understand your point.

    Recall mine. I read media NOT for the news but for what is being presented to the public. I do not even read foreign local media for the news; just for what is being presented to their market audience. I do not even read local area material here for the news. A colleague, when an elected official, had his policy positions published....but they were not his policy positions.

    Understand the B737MAX computer problem. However, also recall AirBus had some tragedies. One of their aircraft crashed near St Peter and St Paul Rocks, Atlantic Ocean a few years ago. Believe it was a Rio, Brazil to Paris flight. Tragedies occur. The redeeming good news is that the US and French (and rest of Toulouse joint venture) aircraft and air carrier industry have well-established safety review departments to correct problems. Otherwise, we'd be boarding Illusion aircraft.

    Could not open the Google log plan spread sheets. Could you post in plain text here?

    A footnote: The month after the World Trade Center 9-11 tragedy in 2001, there were nationwide in the US about 1,000 automobile crash deaths. Many people decided to drive cars instead of flying aircraft. Even with the high-visibility crashes, civil aircraft passenger travel is still considered safer than cars.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    The thing about a lot of those "researchers" is that they have the manners and social skills similar to reporters. They are narcissistic as hell and think that their wants are far more important than the needs of the victims.

    On the other side after the Indonesian Tsunami, there were a lot of places that seemed to resent and not want our help. Maybe next time instead of sending our big ships there to offer power and drinking water along with medical care and search and rescue services we should just send them a get well soon card.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  12. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Only until a group of smart-ass engineers think it it a good idea to fix something that ain't broken. Case example is the B737 Max. The original B-737 and later variant is good plane, in fact I feel much safer flying in the older variant of B737 rather than in ScaryBus A-320. The only good thing in ScaryBus design aspect is their use of sidestick rather than yoke. This way there is enough room for a 100 - 130 lbs flight attendant there (can't do that if you got the yoke in the way) :D

    Unfortunately the spreadsheet is just too big for plain text (AE column wide, 215 row long, with pie-chart, etc)

    What the statistic doesn't say is the survivibility during accident / crash. I still prefer taking train to any destination in Java island, and by ship / boat whenever I need to go to nearby islands (example, Bali or Lombok) but stuck with flying to any other destination which become quite expensive with all the equipment & supply, more so if helicopter is also needed (I really hate low pressure)

    TBH I think they doing it for bragging right in Facebook & Instagram story.

    Since when does US gov't ever sending big ship with power, water treatment, medical supplies, etc? :confused: Never seen any of that around here even back in 2004 (aftermath of the Indian Ocean tsunami)

    The way disaster relieve is typically handle is the benefactor state ask the beneficiary what they need, and only after receiving official confirmation along trough proper diplomatic channel the aid were sent using appropriate transport (typically using C-17 or Herc)
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Good morning Varuna,

    Engineers do not decide plans of action and work efforts. Executive managers do.

    ... and with the newer flight decks fully loaded 100% with audio-visual - even more than coffee cups - perhaps best to wait until RON - Remain Over Night - hotel room.

    Experiencing a crash when in an aircraft or train has consequences. The consequences might not show up until years later but they are indeed still present. "Called aggravating matters", US military veterans are familiar with this and the later denial of care.

    Some train routes are AOK. Some are outright dangerous. Some of the dangerous ones are in the USA. It is less about the track and its maintenance but rather involving the labor force.

    ......

    Although in conversation with TexDan, ...

    Wasn't the USN big boat with STOL and helios offshore Acre, Sumatra circa 2004-05 ? I'd say a C-17 / C-130 Herc does not address the actual delivery of critical supplies to the disaster zone.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  14. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    It was the Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group, and they were dropping foods for the jihadist folks (I don't blame them, it was a real chaotic back then), and USAID came afterward for the rebuilding effort. However since that was our first catastrophic disaster we got all those dubious NGO's from all over the world who were conducting anything from human trafficking, drugs smuggling, etc.

    TBH at the time I don't even know what I was supposed to do there (regardless what was written on my order). I kept meeting people that ought to be shot on sight, and yet I'm not allow to do so :mad: freaking politic

    There is a limit in how much weight helicopter could carry or slingloaded. not to mention larger helicopter need more clearance space and solid ground to land. Smaller helicopter such as Bell 214 (Huey) has proven to be more versatile.
    Curiously I've notice a trend in US military helicopter that they leaning toward more payload in expense of combat range.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  15. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Good morning Varuna,

    LOL ! "the jihadist folks" !

    Well, there is a weight limit on C-17 cargo loads and C-130 Herc and Super Herc loads just like maximums for a helo.

    Er, ... It might not be ICAO-compliant ... but I've BEEN IN large helos - CH-53 Jolly Green Giant - Chinook models A to D - and landed in small spaces ... and the ground was not solid - soaked with monsoon rains. I am here because of only what the novelists can attempt to explain.

    When project managers / incident commanders review risks of loss coupled to costs in a difficult weather environment for flight operations, the Huey might not be worth the minimal trade-off because of its much small cargo load.

    The new US military helo is the hybred "Tilt-Rotor". Much non-publicized discussion and disputes with it. It's a great aircraft for industry such as petroleum companies. The USMC "Osprey" tilt-rotor flies over here frequently enough. My view is that the doctrine "Air Land Battle" is finished. Troops on the ground are needed and in the air are not troops but pending corpses.

    An Osprey still needs a protected landing zone and protection can only come from the traditional "boots on the ground".
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

    Blog Posts:
    1
    After the tsunami, the USS Abraham Lincoln a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier was sent to Jakarta where it provided power and freshwater along with flying thousands of support and evacuation missions. It was later replaced by the USS Mercy a big hospital ship tha carried on with the aid both in supplies and medical care of an extremely high level. We also provided troops on the ground to protect and supply the various refugee camps.

    Varuna I suggest that you make an EFFORT to deal with facts rather than just spout political propaganda slogans. I had people over there during this. While the people were very appreciative, the Government seemed to be more interested in political gains by picking and choosing exactly which groups got aid. We were eventually asked to leave because our help was for those in need and NOT just the select few as chosen by the government.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/05/...-that-helped-tsunami-victims-leaves-aceh.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  17. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Abe was never went to Jakarta or anywhere near. And why should a CSG went doing disaster relieve in a place where there isn't any disaster to start with?!
    BTW do even know where Jakarta is? Mercy did came to the South East Asia region afterward, but not sure to which part of the region (Thailand probably)

    NYT heh....?

    Might wanna re read again my previous post regarding my presence there at the time.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
Loading...
Similar Threads Forum Date
Code.........dull Red......and Fire Could Spread. Financial Planning Jul 6, 2019
Big discounts and promo codes for special savings on food storage! Finding, Identifying, and Preparing Food Mar 11, 2016

Share This Page