Combat Tactics For The Newbie

A while ago I was watching a cop show on the tv. It showed some footage of a gang member (not mafia but ghetto gangster) employing some combat tactics. It seems that there are many gang members joining the service and bringing those skills back home. The gang member I mentioned had been in the marine corps.

I got to wondering, I wonder a lot about many things, it's a habit of mine. Anyhoo in a teotwawki event, everything goes kaput, not a hurricane or heavy thunderstorm. How does a newbie learn to identify and employ combat tactics?

 

Train now. There are plenty of classes teaching a wide variety of skills. Damn sure doesn't make me a marine though. Just an old squid with enough knowledge to be dangerous.........to myself lol

 

Training & repetitive practice with desensitization drill, but that just me, your requirement might be different from me.

 

I have to agree on the train now, that goes with any skill.

 

Randy, Are you looking for training or to train yourself? How serious are you?

I will say, there is no civilian path that leads to military combat training or experience. With that said, you can be far more prepared than the majority of sheep.

Dale

 

Good morning Randy,

Ref: "learn to identify and employ";

The standard methods govern: read, attend seminars, attend classes, talk to the knowledgeable,.... Using the newly-learned material means practice both mental and physical. Try something learned while wearing a soaken wet textile rain coat, with a hooded sweatshirt or large, warm hat that limits hearing and peripheral vision.

From the US Army Field Manual titled "Combatives" (formerly "Hand To Hand Combat"):

FUNDAMENTAL - General
" Five fundamentals are used as a guide in learning hand-to-hand combat. The fundamentals are: making full use of any available weapon, attacking aggressively by using your maximum strength against your enemy's weakest point; maintaining your balance while knocking your opponent off balance; using an opponent's momentum to your advantage; ... ... ... ... ...
and attaining speed through constant practice".

From an Insurance Company manual on KHI - Kidnapping and Hostage Insurance:

Activity Risk

Committee Meeting at the office. Risk is Ambush while to or from, bomb explosion in conference room, armed assault in office, harassment during meeting. (Manual develops actual responses)

Other books discussing thread's question:

"Operating During Strikes"
"Defensive Driving"
"Violence At Sea" - Some merchant mariners receive this type of training and practice no less so than how to do the traditional job stuff.

Many courses out there. I took a course and my personal question to instructor was used for entire class. If one wears glasses, what is "best practice" if time permits, in re glasses ?

 

I was wondering in general. In the show I mentioned they pointed out tactics used. With combat training some of these gangs may not be the push over some surmise. It was mentioned in the show that some of these gang members join the service specifically for the training to bring back. That got me thinking what can a average joe do to prepare. It may be good to be able to anticipate movements. It would not be the same as a war zone, I wouldn't think.

Firearms training is available through many places. Gunsite comes to mind.

I'm not really concerned much, I live a fair distance from a city of any size but I think about the possibilities of different scenarios.

 

Wear any ballistic eye wear that is UPLC compatible (example, Revision® Sawfly, ESS Crosshair™, Wiley X® WX™ Vapor)

 

Good afternoon Varuna,

Appreciate info.

 

This is brain training so
Learn from books
Do imaginary walk throughs where ever you go and assess later!

Then hope one never needs it for real

 

Have a plan to kill everyone you see and a way to escape everywhere you go. Isn't that what they say?

 

To help me understand this is a little better. We, as non military personnel, should expect to engage in combat to keep us safe? Even if we train comprehensively, I do not see how any of us would be able to face down an experienced and "up to date" trained military combatant (and let's face it they have a better chance of survival than most if TSHTF). Is it not better to learn evasion techniques to stay alive instead?

 

Your spot on

 

Did someone mention Rambo?



I'm waiting for the BluRay release though

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/spokesperson/index.html


Good afternoon Lone Wolf,

Ref ... nothing experienced ... that includes any combat experience";

Completely agree ! Forget the main battle tanks, the flying machines, the BDUs on soldiers. The above link has pictures of the new generals for what's pending - at least what I think is pending. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Randy, Gang bangers have been slipping guys into the military services since before I served . They do it for several reasons including learning tactics (mostly for gang wars and criminal activities), stealing military weapons and goods, plus increasing they efficiency at smuggling.

A number of gang members that enlist, embrace the military lifestyle and patriotism and never return to the gang lifestyle.

If your interested in military tactics that would be useful to a prepper, study small unit tactics. Primarily as it pertains to Rangers, Long range reconnaissance units, Special Forces (Green Berets), Marine Raiders or Reconnaissance and Navy Seals. Study team tactics, movements, SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures), Action drills, etc. Weapons and gears are easy to learn. Skills allow you to use any weapons platform to complete you mission. Staying alive.

 

I agree running and hiding probably will increase your chance of surviving , That however goes against my nature . I may die but would prefer dying fighting my enemy than to live knowing I ran away and let them have my survival retreat .

 

Actual "Combat Experience" covers a lot more than fire fights (what most consider combat) as that usually only covers about 2 - 5% of combat experience. A lot of time in "combat" is all of the mind numbing BS (patrols, reconnaissance, OP/LP, briefings, de-briefings, maintenance, etc. etc.) that goes along with performing you job, especially if that job is infantry. Often for infantry the 95 to 98% of the time includes learning to live more like animals than men. Much has changed since I walked in the mud, so I won't get into that.

I consider movies and TV entertainment. Nothing more. Definitely nothing to learn from.

Much of a individuals perception on the 2 - 5% of actual fire fights, depends heavily on Murphy's Law's, and Murphy was an A__hole!

Just my opinion.

Dale

 

That would depend on the situation at the time. I favour a more mobile solution. A specific retreat per se, if you are implying a fixed (fortified?) base, may not go well. Historically most siege situations do not end well for the defenders. Whilst attrition rates are very high for siege attackers (or urban clearance) the attackers always have time on their side and almost invariably triumph.

I feel it is better to have a plan B, which would include leaving. There is no shame in sensible evasion to survive.

 

Absolutely - there are very few examples of siege defenders winning the day (the main example is Stalingrad, which wasn't actually a siege per se as the defenders were able to pour men and provisions in every night).

 

about the only thing someone under siege has going for them during teotwawki is that the attackers probably won't have much for supplies. They may not be able to last long.

 

that is for sure but supplies are probably going to be in short supply just about every where.

 

I'm sure if it comes down to it there will be all kinds of attempts and different levels of success and failure. The attacker would have the advantage. Nothing is a sure thing

 

of course however it wasn't teotwawki. I think that changes things a bit. If the defender is not well stocked and prepared they will be screwed. Can they outlast the attacker.

I have to wonder was there more resources available out and about the countryside during a historical siege and will there be the same level of resources available after a teotwawki event.

 

Sieges? Castles? Even in modern warfare, egress points are established around every fortified position. Defendable positions today are far different than those of history. For starters, todays attackers can be easily shot at 1000 yards by a decent marksman that is properly equipped. Makes a crossbow look pretty ineffective. For anyone interested, I would suggest reading about combat engineering and defensible positions.

Attacking or defending in a modern environment comes with many advantages and disadvantages. Figuring out the balance for your group is the key to surviving and thriving. There is lots of reference material available for those that are interested.

Dale

 

Rambo is fiction. The concept is real life.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...st-hair-raising-general-mattis-quotes/340553/

 

Good morning all,

If the siege involved catapult launching of dead cats and dead humans, will the commissary stores be protected against the projectiles ?

 

Good morning Snyper,

Ref the posted quote from Gen Mattis;

Would you act on the quote in ALL situations ?

Would you adhere to the quote if you're sheltering in place ? Could not the recently deceased been infected with contageous diseases ? All those flies around that corpse ...

Do you have a mortuary trailer with body bags and HAZMAT suits for you to wear when digging graves ?

Will you evac ? Same questions.

 

It says "have a plan", so why not "act" and create a plan?

You seem to be rambling now.

None of which have any relation to the quote I posted about making a plan.

 

I have a rather different view on this sort of thing. I actually don't think that military training is all that useful if all you want to do is survive. A military is armed and trained for aggressive, mobile, goal-oriented, tactics. If you plan on being a thug and taking what you want after things fall this might be worthwhile. If on the other hand, you want to just survive until things settle back down a militaristic sort of plan is likely to get you killed.

This has been demonstrated over and over. Armies do great when they are fighting against other militaristic armies. They don't do nearly as well against guerrilla tactics of hit and run and never staying around for a set battle. With all of our massive military might the US never subdued the Viet Cong nor have they managed to "end" the mess in Iraq though we won the war. Russia did no better in Afganastan and the French gave up on Vietnam before we stupidly got into it.

I think that the best plan for just surviving is to avoid any aggressive fighting like the plague. I'm not saying that you don't want to defend your place but if you are on the move you need to do so in a way that doesn't require you to be in constant combat. I honestly don't see the Gangs as being a big threat after an initial period of urban chaos. They are going to fight and kill each other pretty fast. If they try to attack a prepared prepper they are going to get shot up bad and since they are NOT a trained military that is willing to follow even suicidal orders they are going to pull out pretty fast. There will be plenty of easy unprepared targets for them to take. When I cut loose on them they are going to freak. lots of lead in the air and then big explosions every time they try to hide.

If you want to learn combat then try to focus on defensive rather than military offensive tactics. If you have a set place then build in killing fields. Provide what looks like good places for attackers to take cover when you start shooting and then make those hides bad places to be with explosives or punji sticks. Have well made sandbagged shooting emplacements for the defenders and then offer the attackers bushes that you can shoot right through and other visually solid but useless places for idiots to hide. I love watching people on TV hide behind garbage cans and empty barrels. In real life they are useless. Even my pistol will shoot right through either.

Have a fall back plan with secondary emplacements and have caches with more ammo and running gear. Sometimes survival means knowing when to call it quits and bailout. Remember the Alamo!! If they had followed orders they would have left before Santa Anna got there and lived to fight another day. Had Fannin survived Sam Houston would have killed him for fighting a losing battle and getting a lot of very brave men killed against his orders.

 

Good morning Snyper,

I do understand the perspective you're using.

 

Special forces units need resupply . I am special forces trained and spent a short time in Nam . Despite the hype they may have been given about living off the land , they do need resupply . A prepper is a different kind of survivor . A well planed and serious prepper in the right location " can live off the land " . I can say this however my Green Beret training is a plus in my survival skills . Skills alone will not cut it though if you don't already have your preparation items on hand before S.H.T.F. . But now I am talking about independence from humanity other than your own group for at least a year , not someone on a extended camping trip .

 

Sort of a follow up of the above post . I know it is a brag but will say even at the age of seventy I could out survive under identical conditions , ninety percent of todays Green Berets simply because of my survivalist background before I joined the Green Berets . Yesterday I finally returned home after one and a half days with no food or anything to drink living under extreme conditions . A young buck in his twenties was with me . When we started to walk out to a food and water source he quickly asked me to stop . I could have easily walked for miles but he couldn't . Got to sleep in a bed last night , was back up and going again before daybreak .

 

Right on point there

 

Poltiregist, Agree completely on SF teams needing resupply regularly. All military units require resupply regularly to complete their missions. I worked in a special reconnaissance team (LRRP) for a group and even a small (6 man) team requires resupply of some kind. We collected edibles as we moved through an area to stretch our food supplies and occasionally even stole food when resupply had been longer than normal. There is a huge risk every time you do this though, that you will be discovered, and being discovered can get you dead. Prepping and surviving as a prepper are way different than being a soldier. A soldiers responsibility is to complete the mission. Sometimes, regardless of what completing the mission may cost. A prepper has no such responsibility, except to himself and those depending on him. I completed 6 SERE schools while serving and the bushcraft skills I learned growing up helped more than anything about surviving I learned in any of the schools.

Dale

 

Justo no offense taken . I think everyone hear enjoys a good debate . As for me wandering around stealing other peoples stuff is not my plan . If I don't own it or can't grow it , then I don't even put it on my radar as a resource . Back to the military aspect of food for survival . They don't have time to stop the mission and grow a garden . Shoot a critter to eat and the enemy knows right where you are . So they either have to steal or be resupplied . Stealing in a lawless S.H.T.F. situation , you will soon run into someone like Old Geezer who will shoot you through the lungs .

 

Justo, Just asking since I don't know your background/experience. Not trying to be insulting, OK. Do you know that SF (at least in the US Military branches) stands for "Special Forces", also known as "Green Berets" with a official designation of MOS 18 ( ) and does not include all Special Operations forces, which includes Rangers, Air Force PJ's, Marine Recon, SEALS, DELTA and a few other lesser known units.

Nothing you have said offended me, My skin is not that thin. I was not Special Forces, but I was Special Operations and worked for a SF Group as a LRRP (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols) in what is now known as Special Reconnaissance.

My take on what you have said is that you are mixing or confusing SERE with other military (specifically infantry and recon) skills.

I understand all of those skills all to well as they helped keep me alive. I have had to E&E and have had to watch brothers die. I have been shot and know for a fact that even when you do everything right and how your trained, you can still die. Because professionals are predictable and amateur's get lucky. Just my .02.

Dale

 

Good morning Justo,

No offense at all; appreciate various views. Am guessing you're an Anglo in UK or Australia.

Basically, in re "What kind of tactics?";

Justo, conversely, please accept this morning rambling as not being a hostile/caustic reply.

Much has changed and you've got to modernize to keep up with the changes. "Tactics" are also in flux.

Much - force projection - has been contracted out. New (but still changing) organizations making the news are/were Frontier Services, the former Blackwater / Xi, Vinnell Corp., SAT, MPRI. The "Dominions" have them also and so too the Russians, Chinese, and those other nation-states in the news.

Resupply also has changed....because the organizations have changed.

Ref "eventually have to survive off the land is a major given"; I'm a minority voice on the forum re quote. Without offending anyone, if/when all hades breaks loose - as realistic a possibility/probability as there is - too many here have not worked the COG operations - Continuity of Government and the Presidential Decision Directives .... US military reservists have whether they know it or not. Skilled labor can be "impressed" in case of national emergency. If the situation is even worse and the national government is in dire shape, ... if the dead are not buried / disposed of for disease protection, large areas will become epidemic zones. No one will be gardening without mosquitoes.

Ref "Evading ... not wanting to be seen.."; This, too, has undergone modernization as far as force projection goes. Azimuths are shot and zones "could be" sprayed with poison gas + nerve agents under the 1% rule. Former US VP Dick Cheney invoked the Chinese doctrine that if there's even a 1% chance something's a threat, it must be destroyed.

Besides resupply, rehab must be addressed. One rehab is medical care.

I envision a return to Janissaries as the new "military" establishments.