Defense Shotgun

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by Old Geezer, Jun 5, 2021.

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  1. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    One limiting factor of the defensive shotgun is that one usually has only 6 rounds in the tube of a pump shotgun. Even with magazine extenders, one is still limited to under 10 rounds of ammunition. If you are trapped in a riot situation, if your home is being overrun with attackers, you could be put into a situation wherein you could run out of ammunition in your defensive weapon.

    Continually loading your pump or auto shotgun is therefore very important.

    I found the following video of a competition shooter in the realm of shotguns. In the following video, he reloads using a special shotgun shell carrier used in competition. These are available on the web and I will provide links. However, these carriers are just NOT practical. The competition shooter in this video says the same, they are not practical. So, at a time-stamp of approx 5 minutes into this video, he shows a technique of loading wherein one has two shells on one's hand for each double-shell insertion pass. He also makes the point of reloading while you have a live round in the chamber in case of a needed emergency shot.




    Here are some links for competition shotgun shell holders. During any real defensive situation, these would be impractical.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=double-load+shotgun+carrier&atb=v140-1&iax=images&ia=images
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Mossberg makes a magazine-fed pump shotgun, the 590M. It comes with a 10-round magazine, however a 20-rnd magazine can be purchased. The following video shows that there are issues with this shotgun. Apparently, it can be difficult to rack the slide, especially if one is using the 20-round magazine.



    https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590m-mag-fed/

    .
     
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  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    How to Reload a Defensive Shotgun



    Practical Drills for the Home Defense Shotgun



    Short stocking

     
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  4. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  5. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I'm abidexterous in a lot of things. I shoot, play golf and pool right handed but write and throw with my left hand. I wear a bandolier across my chest and load with my left hand between shots without ever lowering the gun. A lot of things I just flip back and forth with no preferance. It drove my Dad crazy.
     
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  6. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Here are results of patterning a 12 ga. shotgun with a standard load of 00 buckshot (9 pellets). Varying distances are tested; 5 yrd, then 10, 15, ...

     
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  7. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Shotgun improves gene pool

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...glar-enters-backdoor-dies-from-shotgun-blast/

    Would-be home-invader enters via back door, exits via black door.

    "The homeowner grabbed shotgun and confronted the suspect, telling him to leave. The suspect allegedly refused to comply so the homeowner shot him.

    "The suspect was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead."

    Odds are bad for the badguys at the shotgun casino.
    .
     
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  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    No self-respecting survivalist is properly armed unless they've got a fully-automatic 12 ga. shotgun.





    Belt-fed is the way to go, but this fellow has some serious jamming issues with his riot-control machine.



    It's not got the "lead fog factor" of a full-auto scatter-gun, but hey those little mini-guns do have a lot going for them. This is especially true if you get into one of those road-rage thingies. Some idiot cuts you off in traffic, deploy your pickup's minigun.

     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Continued from above

    This is a photograph of my Scottish friend (the mustachioed guy) out on Loch Ness taking care of some drunken speed-boaters who were messing with us. This was a few years ago and I swear, we were minding our own business on his family's boat. Well I'll tell you this, Mike just doesn't put up with that crap! The mini, he kept that just in case Old Nessie rose up out of the water to capsize him and his family on the boat there don't'cha'know.

    upload_2021-11-13_16-51-12.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    OG, Full auto is fun and a great way to relieve tension, but unless your clearing rooms in urban warfare it's a waste of ammo. You learn to use full auto for fighting off an ambush of clearing rooms. I would rather have 6 real shooters than a platoon of spray and pray cherries.

    I have a couple shotguns but for tactical use I prefer my Benelli M4.

    Dale
     
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  12. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    OG, Full auto is fun and a great way to relieve tension, but unless your clearing rooms in urban warfare it's a waste of ammo. You learn to use full auto for fighting off an ambush of clearing rooms. I would rather have 6 real shooters than a platoon of spray and pray cherries.

    I have a couple shotguns but for tactical use I prefer my Benelli M4.

    Dale
     
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  13. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I agree with Dale in that full auto is mostly a waste of ammo. I do prefer a good semi auto shotgun. Faster follow up shots and very reliable with the proper ammo. I am not fond of pump action shotguns as I think too many people, myself included, would tend to short stoke them when under pressure. My choice would be a mag fed semi auto shotgun. Very fast reloads and fast follow up shots. Separate mags can be loaded with different loads, bird shot, light buck shot, regular buck shot or slugs for different shooting situations.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Full auto is fun ...

    except when facing a human wave assault.
     
  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  16. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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  17. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    shoot and kill someone with a shotgun in the UK and you'll be tried for murder and they'll lock you up and throw away the key. you will never see the outside ever again and you will die in prison, some of our laws are lax but not that one.
     
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    1. Ystranc
      Not necessarily correct, in the event of a home invasion a homeowner isn’t restricted to proportionate violence it is acceptable to use use disproportionate violence as long as it is not grossly disproportionate. If you are in fear for your life or the lives of others it’s possible that you can have a defence in law if you use lethal force. The key to your legal defence is that any weapon that you use in your defence must be something that you might reasonably and lawfully have in your possession and you must act without premeditation.
       
      Ystranc, Nov 19, 2021
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  18. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    I will admit LW, I don't understand that thought process. If someone has forced there way into your home, and is raping your loved ones or worse, what does your authorities expect it's citizens to do? Some people are predators on society, like wolves. They stalk and attack anyone they can overcome and the authorities are never there to prevent it. They only show up after its all over to clean up the mess. It sounds like you have lost the legal right to protect your own life and the lives of your loved ones. Is that true?

    No one should want to actually kill another human. It takes a lot of training to teach soldiers how to and that has its own consequences.

    Taking a person's right to fight to live. That's a scary thought.

    Dale
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    we can use "reasonable force" whilst the burglar is in the house but chasing him down the road after he has left would be classed as assault.
     
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    1. Ystranc
      True but that is no longer self defence. Although the definition of self defence is open to interpretation.
       
      Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
      Ystranc, Nov 19, 2021
  20. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    In 2013 the government bought in 'Householder defense' which changed things. Its now down to your personal judgement of the potential threat and how your capable of defending yourself and family. Your elderly and or frail facing a violent burglar and kill them in what you believe was your only realistic response and the courts will take that into account, its not as cut and dried as it used to be. Crown Prosecution Service guidance says they no longer expect householders to make what they call 'fine adjustments' in their response to a home invasion.

    But LW is correct in that shooting/hurting someone fleeing the scene and your in the mire.
     
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  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    #have adjusted the date, you put 2913 , slip of the finger- I assume you meant 2013.#
     
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  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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  23. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    If you shoot anyone fleeing (even in the states), it's classified murder if you kill them. There are other charges if they live. Hopefully for both sides.

    Reasonable force laws are a hornets nest. Everything is fine until you poke it. Reasonable is subjective at best. What one prosecutor considers proper use of force, another prosecutor will consider excessive and try to send you to prison.

    There are degrees of "burglars" anymore. The drug addict kid wanting something to sell for his next fix is not the same concern as the psycho group looking to steal everything of value after raping, torturing and killing everyone in your family.

    Dale
     
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  24. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    It’s a difficult subject to pass comment on especially on a public forum because any statement could be seen as premeditation at some legal proceeding at some distant point in the future.
     
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  25. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Here in the States, you are not permitted to chase a felon. Besides, that's not a good idea. How many of his buddies are in the car to which he is running?! Three of his friends therein may just be armed and turn you into hamburger.
     
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  26. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I guess everyone has read that Kyle Rittenhouse was exonerated for nuking the two rioters in Wisconsin.
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Works for me!
       
      TMT Tactical, Nov 19, 2021
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  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    anyone who riots is asking for everything they get. thats not protesting that is violence for violence sake and usually involves looting too.
     
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  28. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    I'm still amazed that a minor can have access to an assault weapon at age 17 but can't buy a pint down the pub until he's 21, the logic in that escapes me which begs the question "Why was a minor walking the streets during a period of civil unrest armed with a lethal weapon"?

    He got away with manslaughter at least, personally I think he went out to shoot some black folk that night, the 'riot' was a handy excuse for doing so plus he'll make a shed load of cash from the film and book rights plus interviews etc. It was interesting to see a nice white Christian church raised $100k towards his defence...bless them all.

    Edit: Total church based funds raised passed $270K

    A messed up situation folks that will do more harm than good in the long run I fear. As you may have guessed I'm no fan of Kyle.
     
  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    trouble is the people he shot were all WHITE, so anyone who tries to claim a racial element to the killings is an idiot, they also attacked him, video shows them chasing him not the other way around. in my book if someone goes out to riot then they can expect to get their violence returned, they may come home with a few bruises or they may never come home at all, that is their choice.
     
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  30. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    The only relevant question is, was he in fear for his life?
    As I understand it under US law he is entitled to be in possession of a long firearm (not an actual assault rifle but certainly tactical looking) whether it showed wisdom is another question but I’m not sure how much wisdom a seventeen year old could be expected to show.
    Everyone was acting angry and stupid that night and I do however agree that he would have shown better judgment if he’d stayed away…unfortunately he didn’t and this is where we’re at…arguing the rights and wrongs of a legal decision when non of us are party to all the facts.
     
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  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    might have been better if he had stayed away, which is what I'd have done.
    self defence is legal and the jury obviously accepted this.
     
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  32. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    If one goes looking for trouble, they'll find it. Rittenhouse came within a hair of ending up like Reginald Denny or dead.

    The riots in Wisconsin were the business of Wisconsin. It's up to them to defend their own lives and assets.

    And who called Rittenhouse to help?! As far as I know, no distress signal was sent out from store owners, home owners, or anybody else. If some political group or religious group were under fire and looking at getting badly injured or slaughtered, then that is one whole other story. NOT the case here.

    Whoever transferred the rifle to this 17 yr old (at the time) committed a federal felony. In the federal paperwork an American fills out, one of the questions asks if the firearm is for oneself or if it is to be xferred to someone else. If a xfer is to occur, then the person receiving the firearm (let's say it's a Christmas gift) also has to fill-out a "yellow sheet". Another item is that an adult xferred a firearm to a minor. You cannot do this. After having purchased a firearm for yourself, in future, you can give/sell the firearm to the minor's parent or guardian. It is the responsibility of the parent or guardian to regulate the minor in its use.

    Once when I was a skinny little kid, I had a .22 mag revolver on me (it had adjustable sights, Colt, Buntline). I'd gone to a place where local idiots were illegally dumping trash -- old refrigerators, mattresses, scrap left over from building demolition, and sometimes a bit of kitchen scraps. I was there shooting rats (refrigerators, washers, ...). Walking back home, a highway patrolman was cruising through and I stopped him. I asked what we locals could do about stray dogs gathering around that dump. He said to me through his driver window, "Boy, I cain't tell you what to do, but I know what I would do." Basically, he was telling me to take-out those dogs also. My dad had shot one near there once himself. Somebody's got to do something. We'd have rabies run through the area around every seven years. I never learned why this happened in that 7yr cycle.

    I was given a .22 semi-auto rifle at age 12. A 20 ga shotgun at 13 (squirrel hunting with Pap). Bought myself a cheap Spanish double-barrel 12 ga at 16. Got a deer rifle at 16. Dad bought me that revolver for my 17th birthday. Even back those centuries ago, one had to register handguns at the county seat. My dad was talking to a deputy there (BIG guy >6'3") and the deputy looked at us and said, "He's gettin' up there. High time he learnt how to use a revolver." When I was on my high school rifle team, we were allowed to check-out our target rifles to go to the police range or the Army Reserve range to shoot. We'd call ahead to see if there was an opening in their range calendar. Sgt. Major did not accompany us there. Cops and Army welcomed us. In the day, discipline was STRICT. They knew we had a battalion Sgt. Major on our ass, thus we would NEVER screw-up.

    Back then in the South, you were expected to begin acting like a man as soon as any whiskers showed up on your chin. And you did. Your voice changed, then you did -- zero extended-childhood. Both my Jr. High and High School principals were Marines. Zero tolerance for acting out. There had been some armed robberies (knives) at our Jr. High, so talking about "sending in the troops", the city council / school board sure did. Then, there were a series of bomb threats, so they had to hammer that crap down. This Jr. High had students from some "bad neighborhoods" ... needless to say.
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
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  33. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Kyle was guilty of being young and dumb but that was it. He had a legal right to be there. He had a legal right to be armed with a long gun. His long gun was also legal. He was too young to get a pistol or a concealed carry permit. The most important point was /is, he had a legal right to defend himself from multiple attackers. All the violence was caught on several video cameras and cell phones and at no time did it show that Kyle was the instigator of the violence. The prosecutor's own witness's testified that Kyle was attacked. The people that attacked Kyle were stupid and aggressive and they paid the price for their actions. Fortunately, the American citizen does have the right to defend themselves. And in most states, it is not only our right but we are expected to exercise that right. As for conjecture that he went there to shoot Black people, none of the assailants (not victims) were white. Liberal Bullsh!t media, at is worst, printed lies and left out facts. Last but not least, this became a riot not a peaceful protest. Martin Luther King held peaceful protests. Ghandi held peaceful protests. BLM hold riots! Rioters should be open season to all law abiding citizens. NOTE: During the LA riots in years past (many years ago) the rioters attempted to invade Korean town. The local store owner armed themselves and not one store was looted or burned. It is time to take back our streets.
     
  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I never have and never will get involved in rioting, its not my thing, and it usually happens in the UK in cities only and I stay out of cities, dont need to go near those ant hills.
    and rioting over here is the likes of BLM, Woke and the Anarchy crowd, I have no respect for such people.
     
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