Do Not Get Caught In The Loop

Discussion in 'Newbie Corner' started by EarlyMarksman, Oct 3, 2019.

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  1. EarlyMarksman

    EarlyMarksman Expert Member
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    I'm a fairly new prepper myself as far as learning goes, but this is centered towards the brand new guys who are interested in beginning their long journey into the world of preparedness.
    Firstly, I became addicted to purchasing all types of firearms. I would purchase a new gun each week to the point that it became ludicrous. Nothing wrong with buying weapons to defend yourself, but I got caught in the loop of "I need this gun!" and my preps solely became centered around firearms and ammunition. Let me tell ya something, you can have all the firearms and ammunition in the world but if you die from lack of sustenance then you've wasted your time and money. Bushcrafting, foraging, trapping, fishing, hunting, are all skills that are absolutely necessary, and those are skills that I pushed off to the side and forgot about. When I returned home after a year in Washington I realized that I had only three MRE's, some cheap emergency bars and two pouches of drinking water. That's when I took to this forum and reading into Dave Canterbury's Bushcraft 101 book.
    Plus, if you purchase a lot of weapons then you have to purchase several different calibers of cartidges, and trust me, I can tell you from experience that it's not a fun game to play.

    Bottom line, firearms are really fun and purchasing a new one gives you that euphoric feeling of holding a pretty woman in your arms, however that cannot be the center of your preps. First aid supplies, food storage, water storage, water filtration and purification, learning survival skills, etc. It all plays a vital role into staying alive when the grid goes down.

    Like I said though, just make sure you don't get caught in the loop like I did.
     
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  2. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I agree 100% Guns are part of prepping, but far from the most important part.
     
  3. EarlyMarksman

    EarlyMarksman Expert Member
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    Yes, a lot of wasted money haha. It's also said that a man with one weapon is more dangerous than a man with several. The man with one trains solely with that one weapon and becomes proficient with it.
     
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  4. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Guns/weapons are simply a tool. No different than any other tool. Tools help us perform work. You can't use a wrench to weld metal. But you can use a hammer if you know how and can make a hot fire. Tools are only as good as the individual using them. Knowledge is king.

    Dale
     
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  5. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    When I first started I was excited by all the goodies. Go bag, Get home bag, inch bag, knives, hatchets, firearms, water purifiers--individual to family size. All the camping stuff and then I sat down and did an analysis of my situation. I looked at my physical condition, my medical condition and then my locations. Bottom line I did not need all those fun bags. I did not need several different sized water purifiers. I did not need MRE's. I did not even need a hatchet. My suggestion to beginning preppers, sit down and take a honest look at your self. If you are 50 pounds over weight, then you are not likely to be hiking out with your 60 pound Bug Out Bag. So get in shape or plan to play Alamo. If you have severe medical issues type 1 diabetes, you need to find a way to preserve your medication and how to get replacements. What I am trying to say, look at your self and what you can and cannot do. Learn the skills needed and not depend on gadgets.

    P.S. I do collect firearms but not from a prepping need, I simply like to shoot and work on them.
     
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  6. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I think the biggest money waster & threat to the safety of an inexperienced person, is modern gadgets that are not needed or not sustainable. Use sustainable tools only, & learn the skills you are going to need to survive. Learning as you go is not a good idea, not in a survival situation.
    Keith.
     
  7. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Guns are tools. I have a lot of guns but then again I have a lot of different hammers and saws. Each is the best for a specific job. You don't hunt quail with a 22lr rifle. You don't want to hunt rabbits or squirrels with a deer rifle. there is no perfect-it-all gun, saw, or hammer.

    The same thing is true for most things. I can't even make a guess about how many knives I own. They are sort of like shirts for me. I wear a different shirt every day and carry different knives depending on where I am going and what I am doing.

    I understand what you mean about guns and in my case as well, knife addiction. If you have the money I can't see any harm in it as long as you don't go totally crazy. I knew a guy that ended up in trouble because his guns kept getting bigger and bigger until he stepped off into an illegal M-60 and got caught with it.

    The thing about guns and ammunition in a survival situation is that they will be the true gold in an apocalyptic future. Food is good too but you need the guns to protect and keep the food. If you are bugging out a lot of guns have less use but if you are hunkering down in place I don't think that you can have too many.
     
  8. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Well I know my choices are not anyone elses cup of tea on this forum, but my flintlock will take buffalo & quail, & the three knives & my tomahawk will handle any situation or need. I carry the same tools all the time. Let's face it, if you had to leave home & survive in the wilderness, you can't take a selection of guns & knives with you, you have other gear & supplies priorities & have to compromise between minimum weight & maximum self reliance.
    Keith.
     
  9. EarlyMarksman

    EarlyMarksman Expert Member
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    My whole thing is that if I have that extra money to put into purchasing guns, if I already have a great supply of guns and ammo, then I see it as I need to put some of that extra into other preps as well. I have no issue with purchasing a lot of weapons, my main concern is that I don't end up getting too addicted and purchasing an excessive amount of guns when my water storage is lacking. I get what you are saying though.
     
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  10. EarlyMarksman

    EarlyMarksman Expert Member
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    My whole thing is that if I have that extra money to put into purchasing guns, if I already have a great supply of guns and ammo, then I see it as I need to put some of that extra into other preps as well. I have no issue with purchasing a lot of weapons, my main concern is that I don't end up getting too addicted and purchasing an excessive amount of guns when my water storage is lacking. I get what you are saying though.
     
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  11. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Early Marksman,

    Ref: "getting too addicted";

    Much of the above you're describing says to prep a written plan and rudimentary supporting budget. Do you have this ? If your main theme is "shelter in place" then the financial budget won't allocate a fortune for a GMC Yukon, a RV, ... If your main theme is "evacuation", same principles apply. Hold off on large inventories of supplies and get the best socks, boots, the evac stuff.

    Add to the "absolute necessary" a health program with supporting supplies in kits. Besides a year's worth of venison and Canadian bacon. do you have an immunization program ? a dental hygiene program ? The support systems for both ?

    Hanoi Jane Fonda was a movie star. Don't hold her.
     
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  12. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    That's good advice, it's easy to go overboard in one area or in preparation against one specific threat when first starting out. My loop was more the latter, chasing whatever seemed to be the most likely threat at the time. Nuclear war, peak oil, bio terror, pandemic, etc. If you have gas masks and antibiotics but find yourself out of TP or soap, then it might be time to review where you're spending your preparedness budget. :)

    At least firearms have a long shelf-life and retain their value well, besides their uses for security and hunting.
     
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  13. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    While firearms are very important I would not consider them anywhere near the top of the list. I was prepping before I started shooting, and got involved with guns. I felt the two hobbies fit together since self defense was an integral part of survival. For a while I purchased several guns, but never neglected the other areas of prepping.

    I agree with Keith. If you had to bug out you will not be able to carry an arsenal with you. I have always been a proponent of a single caliber for long guns and hand guns, so you only have to carry (and purchase) one type of ammunition. There are many choices that will fit the bill.

    Everything in moderation, as Great Grandma used to say. Look at your overall preps, and see where there are holes; then focus on filling the holes. We should be reviewing all of these things all of the time anyway.
     
  14. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    Lol getting caught in the loop or loop hole means something way different to me.
     
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  15. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    My government will keep me safe and warm and well fed. I don't need any guns.
     
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    1. CountryGuy
      LOL!!
       
      CountryGuy, Oct 6, 2019
  16. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    You are being sarcastic; I hope.
     
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  17. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Would you be interested in buying a bridge in Brooklyn? I can get it for you at a very good price.
     
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  18. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    Don't get caught in my loophole


     
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  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Bishop,

    Appreciate breaking the riddle. I guessed it didn't involve basketball.

    Just curious, what type USMC work - don't know the Corps MOS codes - kept you busy ?
     
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  20. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    0311 8541
     
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  21. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    What do the numbers stand for ?
     
  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Actually, Keith considering the laws and conditions that you live under I think that your choices in firearms are perfect.

    I do agree that a 20 gauge / 60 caliber shotgun/musket is close to a perfect does it all gun. From slugs to bird \shot it will get the job done from Deer to doves. It uses less powder and shot than the larger bores and will pretty much do the same jobs and the ammo and guns are lighter. When you say Buffalo I assume you are talking about the water buffalo. Those are some mean and tough critters. I think that I would have to be close to a tree that I could climb before I shot one of them with a musket. They sometimes take a lot of killing and you won't have time to restuff a musket.

    I like carbon steel knives and there is a lot to say for a good butcher knife for a good carry hunting knife. I'm massively underwhelmed with a lot of the massively expensive stainless steel knives that are currently offered. Yes, they are pretty but in my experience, 300 dollar knife doesn't cut any better than a 40 or 50 dollar knife and actually, I use carbon steel Ontario knifes Old Hickory knives for butchering and they cost less than 20 dollars.
     
  23. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    0311 is a riflema 8541 is a scout sniper
     
  24. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Bishop,

    Appreciate info.

    Transmitting from vicinity of boyhood home of your Gen C. Puller (West Point, Virginia) and his final resting place 2 counties away.
     
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  25. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    I think your spot on EM with firearms becoming quicksand for many noob preppers. It's the shiny new toy and the feeling of power and protection. I think many initially come to prepping out of a place of fear. Especially a few years back when the entire Doomsday TV cult was stirring up the sheep. Some woke up permanently and others dosed back off when the TV shows faded away. Those that went back to sleep can be a good source of great deals on guns and gear... just saying LOL.

    I think it's human habit or at least modern human habit to buy things. I mean people run out and buy new kitchen or tech gadgets or whatever else and have no idea how to use them or to get the most out of the features they just needed to have. It's the same with prepping. Buying "stuff" is the easy part, be it guns, generators, freeze dried food etc... knowing when and how to use that stuff is a different story.

    Like others said most people need to first sit down and do some soul searching and thinking but they don't want to do that as they don't feel like they're doing something. Running out and spending a grand on a gun or 2 grand on a generator "feels" like they've taken a step forward. They don't even know enough to know they don't have a clue. Great, new rifle and they don't know what ammo to buy, or worse yet, they don't even know proper safe handling. Knowledge is king in this world.
     
  26. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    To me knowing where to HIDE is far more important then any weapon.
    Especially having pre-selected safe places to HIDE.
    Ever gooooder if they have lots of food and water.
     
  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If you can NOT get in a gunfight you will survive. If you have a gun some people seem to think that it makes them 7 feet tall and armor-plated and THAT will get you killed.

    This is like the concealed handgun thing. I tell people all the time that if you have a concealed weapon you need to keep it there until it comes time to shoot someone. If I pull my gun someone is getting killed. It isn't there for threatening people or showing off with. If you pull a gun and don't fire it immediately you place yourself in a bad place. If the cops find that it was unwarranted they will arrest you for brandishing and that is a felony that will make possession of a gun illegal.

    If you draw and don't shoot your opponent is in a better place than you. If he decides to shoot or harm you, you have to now decide and react while he is ACTING. If you and I are close enough to touch and you point a gun at me I WILL take it out and you can't shoot me. I've demonstrated this many times to nonbelievers. It is just a matter of human reaction time and understanding how to ACT.

    A gun can save your life but it also can get you KILLED. If you don't have a gun you will be more careful in your actions and as it says in the Bible "The meek shall inherit the earth." because they will hide and survive while the aggressive will get killed eventually. Live by the sword and you will die by the sword.
     
  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Better to be the warrior in the garden, than the gardener in the war. Know what it takes, how to do what it takes and then hope to never use it. The gunslinger in the wild west got killed. Only those that quit being gunslingers survived --- Wyatt Earp ---
     
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  29. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    Did you know lol, that John Wayne consulted with Wyatt early in his acting career.
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      I did not know that, thinks for the info. Maybe that is why he made such a good cowboy.
       
      TMT Tactical, Oct 6, 2019
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  30. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    When qualifying for handgun permit in my home state, county sheriff's department range-master told us to keep any weapon concealed until needed. Emergency use only.

    He sez: You see a person holding a weapon on another. Call cops. "You don't know the situation. What if it is a good guy holding a would-be armed robber? You don't know!" He also said that he didn't want any calls from citizens about a "person with a gun". They didn't want to put up with that crap. We were basically given orders not to be any trouble for them -- they had enough on their hands as was. The range-master was NOT smiling.
     
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  31. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Earp was a man not to be messed-with on many levels. However, people liked him. He was simply one of the good guys. Believed in God, told Tom Mix that he had many questions to ask God, the two of them made up a list of things to ask God.

    03bea34571fe4ca772dac7cd59c42684.jpeg

    "At Wyatt Earp’s funeral, held the Tuesday after he died on January 13, 1929, his pallbearers were: (pictured above from left) attorney W.J. Hunsaker, Arizona Territory diarist George Parsons, former Tombstone mayor and newspaper editor John Clum, actor William S. Hart, playwright Wilson Mizner and actor Tom Mix. "

    The funeral had a huge attendance. Many hard men wept.

    https://truewestmagazine.com/tom-mix-wyatt-earp-casket/

    https://www.facebook.com/CowboysAreCrazy/posts/660117170695728
     
    1. TMT Tactical
      Thanks for the links OG. Good info.
       
      TMT Tactical, Oct 6, 2019
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  32. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Tom Mix was from the area I grew up in. It's funny, they have a festival for him and all that, but story goes back in the day the "city" threw him out of town for being a hellion. Sent him back to the little village he was born in, aptly named Driftwood. 'Course that was all before he headed west to for what would be fame and fortune. Then all of a sudden he was a beloved son... LMAO
     
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  33. Richard Earley

    Richard Earley Well-Known Member
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    I also fell for the gun bug...One mossy 12 gauge,one stevens .17 hmr two 22's one sig sauer 556 swat one ruger sr762 and a glock 41..Ammo 14500 for the 22's 4500 for the sig sauer 3000 for the ruger 762 400 for the mossy 12 gauge 5000 for the 17 hmr and 500 for the glock 41...
     
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  34. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Money spent on firearms is seldom wasted if you buy quality products and take reasonable care of them.
    They maintain their values well, and often it will appreciate.
     
  35. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    When it really hits the fan, those without firearms will serve those with firearms. Down through the ages, survival of the fittest often equated to the best armed and trained.
     
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  36. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    That's prime signature material there.
    I might steal it. ;)
     
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  37. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Go for it, I stole it too. It fit my way of thinking.
     
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  38. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    You didn't fall for the gun bug. You just have the start of a nice collection. Welcome aboard!!
     
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  39. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The thing about weapons is if you don't have them you will be at a grave disadvantage to those that do. They can be a two-edged problem though. If you have guns and think that they make you safe and invincible they will kill you. If you have a gun and get in a fight that you could have avoided by hiding then the gun harmed your chances of survival.

    I have sat and listened to a bunch of nimrods talking about how bad they would be with all of their assault rifles and other militaristic weapons and gear. What they just don't get is that some good old boy with a 22 squirrel gun will sit off a hundred yards away and gut shoot them if they march around and piss people off. The military concept depends on regular supply lines, the availability of medical evacuation and let's be honest they are out hunting for someone to have a battle with. It has proven to be less than successful when dealing with an enemy that refuses to have pitched battles.

    If you want to survive in a world gone to hell the last thing that you want to do is hunt for trouble. If you think that a gun is going to be your primary protection you are in trouble. you are not in the military. you are not an adventurer. Those people get killed most of the time. You want to go unnoticed. If you find yourself in a situation where someone is a serious threat to you then you KILL them. You do NOT fight with them. Fighting infers that they will have a fair chance to win. THAT is NOT survival. Survival is what the insurgents in Iraq do to our troops. They shoot and then disappear unless they have you outnumbered by a significant margin. They set booby traps for you and snipe at you. they don't get in many military-style battles. Survival is guerrilla warfare.

    Pick your weapon wisely. Decide early on whether you are going to be the aggressor or a defender because the best weapon for each is not always the same. For defensive use, I prefer shotguns and scoped rifles. For aggressive use, I like the 30 caliber rifles but in jungle type areas the 5.56 is good. In Vietnam, you sprayed a lot because you didn't always have an eye on your target. the problem with this in a survival situation is that you can go through 500 rounds in a hurry with spry and pray.

    You need to decide if you are bugging out or bugging in and if you are bugging out CAN you get to your bugout location in a vehicle or will you end up on foot? Big heavy weapons are fine if you don't have to carry them constantly. If you are walking you have to think about the weight of the ammo and whether bigger is better than more.

    I have a lot of guns. There is no way that I could carry them anywhere else except in a big truck. That is no problem for me. When I was young my plan was a much more active plan. I lived in a city and urban area and knew that I would need to get out of there. Now I am out and sp will stay right where I am. My needs now are totally different from what they were when I was young and bugging out was the plan. I sold my ARs and made a monster profit on them and redirected my plans to defensive needs.

    PLAN and think. Don't base your choices on what you think is cool or on what you have seen in movies or TV or even based on the military model. The military shoots FMJ to create injuries instead of as many kills. In survival, I want you DEAD. I don't want to have to shoot you a half dozen times to stop you from trying to hurt me. I don't want to have to waste my ammo on suppressive fire.

    Survival is an art and not a science. Each of us will paint a different picture and very few are WRONG. Decide what your plan is and then arm to best help you do THAT.
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    different situations and different locations call for different tactics.
    in the UK we don't have the gun culture that you seem to have in the US, for instance in Devon and Cornwall (the area where I live) there are only 10,000 guns out of a population of 1.6 million, and most of them are shotguns and many of them are only used in gun clubs, hunting is not widely practiced and is heavily regulated. get it wrong and you will have the armed response team hammering on your front door.
     
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  41. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Lonewolf you have no idea how horrifying it is to me when you post things like that!! I very honestly would rather be dead than have so little right to defend myself and those that I love. If they ever come hammering on my door for my guns they had better be wearing bulletproof masks because I know that they are wearing body armor so ALL of my shots will be headshots. I WILL die for my freedom.

    The number of guns that you said were in your area...those are the ones in the hands of the nice law-abiding people that have received the limited permission of the government to have a little gun. This does not reflect the ones in the hands of less savory folks like I would be. For many many years, I refused to own a gun that had government paper on it that could be traced to me. In my old age I have lightened up on that but still have a couple dozen guns that have no records.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  42. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    Words Duncan tries to live by:
    • My two favorite rifles are both Ruger 10-22's.
    • A handgun's purpose is to allow you to fight your way to your rifle.
    • My motto is "Speak softly and carry a big stick, then sneak up on the guy and bust him up side the head with the stick when he's not looking."
    • No armed confrontation cannot be successfully run away from.
     
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  43. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I will not start a firefight but I damn sure plan to be able to finish one. I will not be bugging out. Too old and too limited health wise. I will be defensive but that does not mean I will only be defending from the house. I plan to be able to detect trespassers at a long range. All my rifles are equipped with scopes. My shotgun will be mag fed and equipped with a red dot and a light. I do plan to have a 308 equipped with Night Vision and I also plan to have a Thermal monocular. Like TexDamn, I do not plan to wound or take prisoners. Like TD, I do not plan to be a Rambo, running around looking for a firefight. I plan to hunker down, stay out of sight and use gorilla tactic if needed. I plan to have a Ruger Precision Rimfire for my small game hunting -- varmint control. Suppressor works wonders, in a bolt action 22LR. I am equipped to defend from just about any range out to 1,000 yards.

    I will be the nice quite neighbor, who volunteers to help out all my neighbors. I will be Mr. Rodgers until I need to be Attila the Hun. Stock food and water supplies. Stock heating supplies and equipment. Stock minimal lighting equipment, emergency use only. Stay out of sight, once the S hits the fan. Activate the defensive perimeter and wait it out. If I never have to chamber a round, I will be a happy camper.
     
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  44. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Sh##, I just like rifles.

    If a handgun can shoot like a rifle, I like it.

    Irony 101, it's my shotguns that have put most meat and gravy on the table. If someone is breaking into my house, first thing I've grabbed is Mr. Shotgun. Don't know what it is, but that racking of a shotgun's slide just seems to give bad guys religion, the sense of the spiritual and all that. Amazing. Grace.

    Did I tell you about me liking rifles? That. And a pleasing rifle has pleasing furniture. That minute-of-angle thingy, well, we have our standards.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rifle's+engraved+furniture+bolt+action&atb=v140-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iaf=size:Large

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rifle's+carved+furniture+lever+action+stock&atb=v140-1&iar=images&iaf=size:Large&iax=images&ia=images

    If one is sending another to his eternal repose, should he not do so with something pretty? I think so. Standards.

    I want this rifle. Click on the pretty picture below to expand the image:
    9c29e183a2b5e6c209d4399a6efb5179.jpeg
     
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  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  46. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I can certainly appreciate and enjoy a beautiful rifle. Engraving and precision checkering just add to a beautiful stock. My 243 caliber Sako is gorgeous but due to its age, built in 1957, it is now a Safe Queen item. Getting parts is a nightmare. Shoots sub- MOA but is now retired. I will just have to settle with sending the varmint to their just reward with a plain Jane firearm.
     
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Fish caught Hunting / Fishing / Trapping Jun 10, 2016

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