Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Panel Discussion

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by CivilDefense, Jul 6, 2016.

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  1. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    The following video is an interesting panel discussion concerning EMP and the impact said would have upon this country. Some of the speakers include James Woolsey (former director of the CIA), Dr. Peter Vincent (Director of the Task Force for National and Homeland Security), and Henry Cooper (ambassador). There is also a Q&A session.

     
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  2. Joe Stonecipher

    Joe Stonecipher Well-Known Member
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    Hi! I'm new to the forum, but before I retired I was the NERC Compliance officer for a small municipal electric utility in northeast Florida. There is a NERC Standard for a solar coronal mass ejection (CME) we had to prepare for - and there really wasn't much you could do for it. In one of the State of Florida meetings I tried to bring up discussions about an EMP, but since (at the time) it wasn't a NERC Standard nobody wanted to discuss it.

    Anyway, in 2012 there was a monstrous CME from the sun that would have shut down everything on earth if it hit us. Fortunately, it was aimed at a point in space about a quarter of the way around the sun from us. If we're ever hit by such a large CME, it would be just like - or worse than - an EMP. And it could last for a few days!

    Even though we could easily be hit by a single EMP from North Korea, Iran or South Possumtrotistan, I personally believe we have a greater chance of a large CME wrecking our electric grid. And not only that, but everything with a transistor in it - modern cars and trucks, aircraft, TVs, PCs, telephones, cell phones, watches, heart pacemakers and anything else.

    And if you have to an older car or truck you think won't get affected by a CME or EMP, if you try to drive it on the road someone will want to take it from you - a thieving scumbag or even the police will confiscate it.
     
  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    don't worry about old cars Joe, the EMP will affect the filling stations pumps so once you've used up all the fuel in the tank you'll be out of gas and going nowhere.
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    your right on target with this , people for the most part are unprepared for this possibility .
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    most people are unprepared for anything, even the minor events.
     
  6. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    everyone should take time to watch this video but if you are not interested enough in this to watch it all watch the first quarter and the last quarter of this video . One take away from it "the US has zero defense against a satellite delivered EMP " .
     
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  7. Alaskajohn

    Alaskajohn Expert Member
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    Be it a CME, an EMP, or just societal breakdown the brings down the grid, my aim is to be able to operate in life without electricity. Access to water, heat, the ability to store meat and other produce, transportation, ability to construct or maintain existing systems and structures, etc all better be set before it happens. I’ve been working to be able to do all this absent any reliance on electricity.

    I know many are working to develop alternative sources of energy as part of their preps, and this may all be well and good. Some of my preps are consistent with this thought, but nothing critical for thriving in my preps are reliant on anything electronic or driven by a combustion engine.
     
  8. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    same here
     
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  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I believe that this statement about most folk not being prepared for anything going sideways cuts to the chase.

    As to the topic of EMP in this thread and several other threads:

    I think that a lot of equipment will survive EMP much better than most folk would imagine, but that's that. It is a picky observation. Most electrical grids are rather vulnerable to a host of geophysical events. Find other critical systems other than power, study them and you will find their vulnerabilities.

    Why sites like this exist is that we who would prepare for hard times predictable and unpredictable know in our heart of hearts that here we stand in amongst herds of lemmings. Given this reality, we share means of getting out and means of being as independent of the fragile techno-world upon which these lemmings depend.

    Postulating that electrical grids WILL go down is not only no stretch of the imagination, we have ourselves watched this happen dozens of times. Plus, we've watched others get frayed nerves after just three days of no electrical feed.

    Let us focus on sharing things we have done to be independent and asking questions of other members who may have solutions that have puzzled ourselves. I find all manner of information on this site, much of it concerning matters to which I'd given little or no thought.

    Thanx much!
     
  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I guess I'm different even in this group. I have no preparations to try and maintain the modern powered lifestyle after any sort of apocalyptic fall. I have moved my lifestyle into the past before and would do so again if I needed to. When my daughter was born my wife stopped working outside of the home. We did this by a conscious choice. We just felt that it was important for a baby to be raised rather than stored in a daycare.

    People were shocked by this decision and most flat told us that people can't make it on one income anymore. My Mom and my wifesMom didn't work so I couldn't see the problem. they did fine so we would do fine. It was simple, we lived pretty much just like they did and it was no problem. We didn't eat out a lot my wife cooked. We didn't have a color TV until 1983 and didn't suffer from the lack. Our social life revolved mostly around family and church. You know when you lived in the 80s with a 60s lifestyle money was no problem. We bought a small home, that was all we wanted. The loan people couldn't believe that I was buying a house that was less than my annual income when I was easily qualified for a loan three time that.

    Years later when the oil industry tanked I was glad that I had my little house as I watched people lose their homes. I was unemployed for almost a year. We got by simply. We backed up and lived as people did in the 50s. Turned off the AC. turned off the water heater and walked a lot rather than drive to the store that was just a couple of blocks away. We did fine. We would stay outside playing cards or watching the kids in the evenings while the house cooled off. I fished a lot and we ate a lot of fish.

    My plan if things collapse is to live like people did before there was power. People lived and did fine in 1900. I may miss the TVs, Phones, and computers and such but the only thing that I will really miss is the refrigerator and freezer. But people live for centuries without so I am not worried. People ate long before there were convenience stores on every street corner. Will have water, three acres of land for gardens and small domestic animals, Wood fire-based cooking and heating. I can pressure can my foods and meat with my pressure cooker and have a smoker that can do 100 lbs of meat or sausages.

    I am well armed and have all the tools needed to live without power. My places are set up to be livable without power. I have food, water, security, fuel, and clothing covered. I even have a treddle foot powered old singer sewing machine.

    I'm afraid that is your focus on maintaining a powered lifestyle you may be setting yourself up to fail. No system will last for the long term and the attention you may attract, if you live much above the others in your area, may be deadly.
     
  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    trying to maintain a 21st century lifestyle after the SHTF is a mugs game, nothing electrical or electronic will last long term.
    eventually and fairly quickly one will realise that we will have to fall back on the old ways and lots of physical labour.
     
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  13. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Two nuke capable nations entering a war with each other would most likely E.M.P. attack each other immediately into interring the conflict . Subsequent strikes with direct military targets .Those that survive the direct military ground strikes will be left to survive radioactive dust clouds . The subsequential effects of the E.M.P. for people to cope with will decimate ninty percent of the remaining population . About the only way this scenario will not happen in the future is if two major powers never go to war with each other . Looking at history of man . I expect it to happen . The only question I have , When will it happen ?
     
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  14. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Think about this..........If a country has the ability to turn-off or destroy, or screw-up the info from all of the GPS satellites. It could launch a massive attack, and one or two seconds after impact, screw up the GPS satellites. Or worse instantly reroute the retaliatory strike back to their original launch site, by altering the data feed.

    China claims to have this ability now.
     
  15. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I have not made any separate or unusual preparations for EMP or CME. For me the main reason is nobody seems to really know what will happen. Everything I have read says it will depend on the type of EMP it is; E1, E2, E3. E1 and E3 are most likely. E1, which would be the man-made nuclear type, will affect small electronics but not the grid. E3 will affect the grid but not small electronics. Tests, albeit limited, are not conclusive. If your car is not running when the EMP hits will it still work? Some did. Some didn't. If your car is running when EMP hits will it still work? Some did. Some didn't. Some tests fried everything no matter how much they were shielded.

    I have always questioned the value of a Farraday cage. First, will it really work? Will it protect anything? Second, what are you going to do with the things you save.? What are your electronic devices going to connect to if everything else is down?

    I will plan to go a different direction for a world without electricity.
     
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    a world without electricity will see most of the first world in tatters, most people indeed most governments will be unable to function without electricity as about 99.9% of all communications, banking and power relies on electricity either directly or indirectly.
    although in the UK electricity in houses was unheard of before the 1930s so less than 100 years ago yet without it the country would grind to a halt.
     
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  17. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Fortunately an E.M.P. is something we can prepare for with a reasonable expectation of surviving . Some things are much harder to impossible to prepare for such as a large meteorite striking earth or a plague . I agree putting stuff in a faraday cage and faraday bags is almost a futile effort , however building a faraday cage by using an old discarded microwave oven or metal can ranges from free to cheap and is worth at least trying .
     
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  18. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Lot of people make lots of claims.
    Many of them prove to be false.
    Other countries rely on our GPS satellites too.
    I don't think they will be a target.
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if you do not have personal control over something that you rely on for survival in a post SHTF world , how are you going to survive without it?
     
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  20. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    EMP is not magic, it still obeys the laws of physics, know those laws and apply them!
    For most there experience of an EMP will be from the grid so instead of 110-240vac there maybe several dc pulses up to a million volts seeking an earth, nothing in anyones meter boxes will stop that! there will be shorts everywhere and most anywhere and DC current is a nasty beast.
    Lots a stuff will not get fried due to there location on the grid but don't rely on that.
    Anything with an long antenna will most likely get fried if not protected
    Most older vehicles pre 90s will run minus there radios some of the more modern will run if protected but most will not.
    Older diesels will rule PA

    Not hard to convert an older motorbike to ethanol

    Remember An emp pulse needs a large collector to build a large charge, things like the power grid and fences are ideal even rail tracks!
     
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  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I know that our military is preparing for an EMP attack and I'm so glad about that. I hope that more can be done to protect our fuel and water delivery systems.

    For individuals, families and such, do not EVEN believe that government or anybody else is gonna bail your out this one! Ain't gonna happen.

    This is why we are called "preppers". We ourselves prepare. Those who look to government are the folk who are delusional. Sure isn't us.
     
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  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The thing about EMP type disasters, whether they are man-made or some sort of natural phenomenon, is that it will have its greatest effect on the most advanced countries. some African living on the savanna will hardly notice the difference in his day to day lifestyle. Places that still do physical labor type farming will do fine.

    For one thing, the people that live in third world countries mostly understand and can duplicate the technology that they use. A farmer that is plowing his fields probably knows how to make harnesses and probably knows someone that can hammer out a plow blade. They already cook and heat with fire so will be fine without power.

    We in the more powerful first world countries mostly don't even know how to feed ourselves. I know a lot of young people that would starve right now if their microwave died and couldn't be replaced. We have lost the ability to do much of anything personally. How many people know how to process and store their food even if they do know how to sort of raise a garden or kill a critter?

    We have grown so far from our roots that survival just won't be possible for most people. Honestly, I think that most people now days are so soft that they will not WANT to live in a tough world with no conveniences. Suicides will kill as many as will die of starvation. Hells silver bells, most people think that missing a meal IS life-threatening starvation. Peoples ignorance is going to literally scare them to death. Many adults these days are scared of the dark!!!

    as far as I can figure out even a low-level EMP could crash out power grids. The coarse part, wires and poles and transformers might be OK but the control systems will go down. Fuses will pop. MILLIONS of them will pop. There is at least one fuse on every transformer. How long would it take to replace that many fuses? With communications out people won't know what is going on out of their sight. Panic and riots will burn a lot of cities down. I honestly don't know it the US could survive even a temporary power outage that was nationwide and systemic.
     
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  23. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    U.S.government official over the E.M.P. agency stated if a foreign country made a E.M.P. strike it would take AT LEAST one year to get the power grid back up . It would take only one E.M.P exploded above the state of Kansas to knock out the power grid for the entire continental United States. By following up with another E.M.P on the weakened country about every ten months an adversary could keep its victim with no electricity indefinitely .
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    more than a year I think, I read a report it would take at least 2 years to get the UK grid up and running again, even if they had the engineers to do it, i'm guessing the US grid is bigger so would take longer.
     
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  25. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    The firestorm after a EMP or CME will make Dresden in WWII look like a backyard BBQ!

    Probably wont need a grid afterwards
    What happens when most every house in every town catch's fire? Whole towns and cities will burn and the bush around them will burn and burn and burn. Hiding in a bush retreat wont help much but being in the desert might!

    What about oxygen to breathe?
     
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  26. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Even the primitive country of North Korea is suspected of having an E.M.P capable bomb . This is based on what we know about their nuclear bomb tests . Last account I had they had four satellites of unknown purpose in the correct orbit height for conducting a E.M.P. circling the globe . I think it would be relatively safe to conclude those satellites are not so they can watch tv. There is a lot of hate filled crazy leaders with the ability to conduct an E.M.P. strike that may very well let their hatred override their own survival . For example the crazy guys that flew the planes into the twin towers . I occasionally find myself staring into the sky at night watching a satellite and wondering what its pay load and purpose is .
     
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  27. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Ground targets would most likely be conducted by missiles . A E.M.P. could be delivered by missile or satellite . My hunch is they would probably use a satellite built for a E.M.P. attack . Some of our engineers might know more about this than me , but I expect only a few taps on a key board by someone ordered to set off an E.M.P. by satellite from a pi---- off leader is all it would take .
     
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  28. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    The nuke needs to be detonated at the right height and location to be effective
    Mjssile probably the best due to speed of delivery limiting response time.
     
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  29. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    And THAT is why we have submarines, hardened missile sites, bases all over the world and keep some of the big birds up all the time. If someone nukes us they won't be able to do it again in 10 months. We would slag them. That is the idea behind mutually assured destruction. If we get nuked it is more than likely to be a terrorist attack or the actions of a nut like the little fat Man in North Korea and not a major power. The civilians would be the big losers in that kind of war.
     
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