Emps For Protection Against Drones

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by jmc, Mar 5, 2019.

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  1. jmc

    jmc Member
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    One thing that not many preppers seems to consider in their defense plans are EMP devices.

    Yet in a drone attack scenario, an EMP device could make the difference between life and death.

    And it's something the experts in the field of AI are taking increasingly seriously (In this link the video repeats twice, so only bothe watching the first 8 mins or so).



    I've written about this in greater detail here:

    https://johnmccone.com/2018/08/03/arms-races-at-the-speed-of-light/

    Guns and knives are likely to be ineffective against a swarm of killer drones. Under such circumstances, EMPs are the most effective defense. They are also fairly simple to build. All it takes is a solenoid and something that changes its inductance quickly (such as rapidly inserting an iron core).

    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-an-Electromagnetic-Pulse

    Worth further research?
     
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  2. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    killer drones? EMP devices? really?
    getting a bit sci fi, a long way from simple prepping and basic survival.
     
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  3. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Yes really. I've found in several other prepper forums there's a lot of scepticism about the automated killer robot swarms scenario, but it's actually quite plausible.

    Look at predator drones today. This is where military technology is heading.

    The prepper community seems to focus a lot on technological and infrastructure collapse scenarios. And these are certainly plausible.

    But I'm inclined to think that malevolent technology scenarios are currently a bit of a blind spot which deserves more attention.
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think there is a lot of more basic problems in the world we need to worry about before we turn our attention to "killer" drones.
    "automated killer robots"? really? LOL.
     
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  5. jmc

    jmc Member
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    More basic problems?

    It depends on the disaster scenario.

    Different disaster scenarios have different basic problems.

    But if swarms of killer robots are flying around killing people, then defending yourself from those drones *is* the most basic problem.
     
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  6. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the collapse will come long before any killer robot can be perfected.
    better to cover the basics first.
     
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  7. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Maybe. Maybe not.

    We don't know what the future will hold.

    But I guess we know for a fact that killer drones are at least 5 to 10 years away. So a killer drone apocalypse scenario is not an immediate threat. Whereas other collapses are an immediate possibility.

    But if someone already has covered the basics, it's worth looking into EMPs and testing the effectiveness of different EMP devices against sample drones.

    As I say, EMPs are pretty straightforward to build. It wouldn't take much time to look into them. Its just they're unfamiliar to many people.
     
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  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    who would have these killer drones and why?
    the only EMP's I have ever hears of are of the nuclear or solar storm kind, are you saying one can have a "domestic" unit?
     
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  9. jmc

    jmc Member
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    I don't think many people have wrapped their head around just how vulnerable weaponized software is to proliferation.

    A killer drone could be a normal drone that can be purchased cheaply from the shop with a knife stuck onto it and the appropriate weaponized software downloaded onto it.

    That is the real point. Up until now, when the military designs state-of-the-art weapons systems the hardware for these systems is so advanced that, while rival states could copy them, a small terrorist circle that stole the plans could afford the hardware to do damage.

    But weaponized software will be different.

    If the plans for weaponized software get hacked from military organization and become publicly available on the dark web, they everyone and their grandmother will be able to download them, use them to control a drone that can be purchased cheaply (perhaps equipped with something as simple as a knife) and program the drone to go out and kill people.

    Weaponized software has the potential to make very cheap hardware absolutely lethal. I discuss this possibility here.

    https://johnmccone.com/2018/08/03/arms-races-at-the-speed-of-light/




    Making EMPs is simple. All you need is some car batteries, a big coil of wire and some metal to insert into the coil rapidly (accelerated by a powerful spring, compressed gas or some form of combustible material)

    Nuclear EMPs would take out the grid for miles around. A domestic EMP would be much less intense and would fry electrical equipment over a much smaller radius (perhaps 10-100m).
     
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  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    sounds too futuristic for most preppers who are more concerned with putting food on the table post collapse.
    I don't think software will give much of a problem once the grid goes down.
     
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  11. jmc

    jmc Member
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    I suppose it is futuristic. But we're talking about 5 to 10 years in the future.

    And drone technology exists today.

    The fact of the matter is, if a swarm of killer drones attacks your family, food won't help.

    Nor will knives and guns.

    Indeed there may be scenarios were the shops are open but killer drones are still fly around attacking people, picking them off here and there.

    I think this is something to be aware of.



    I would agree that the first priority for preppers is food. But if you've graduated to thinking about defense, it's worth considering testing EMPs. It's not hard to do.
     
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  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    it is for those of us who don't have a technical mind.
    and I think your estimate of 5-10 years is way out, these things always take much longer than anyone thinks.
     
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  13. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    lonewolf...I disagree with you for one reason....


    The long term global NWO plan is for general population reduction. In particular on the list are preppers and others who have enough information to be a challenge to the system. We saw this take place in the 1970s and 80s in Cambodia...after Vietnam fell.

    The government went into "Democide " mode...killing off whole areas of their population including teachers who knew enough to teach outside the authorized curriculum.

    Governments like this ....socialist governments need just enough people to keep the groceries , shipping routes and utilities working....for the insiders...not the regular people.


    Democide....death by government on it's own people...versus genocide.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP2.HTM


    In this country,America,the political apparatus/deep state is modeling itself after the UK and the Continent...a non representative government.....and clearly practicing division and not unity.

    Political/social division....not unity...and certainly not representing the will of the people...here in America.

    There are many here in America who think the eventual goal of the deep state apparatus is division and on to Civil War in this country. The blatant attempts at division and fractionating of the people is a clear tell tale of this taking place.

    There are also many who believe that the Deep State is clearly aligned with the leftist progressives internationally and thus willing to destroy the nation if they cannot have their way. They believe that this nation belongs to them and their masters by default.



    Brexit and the Brexit vote is a clear example that your government is a non representative government.

    It is so too here with our border situation. Our government is listening to someone ...just not the American People.


    The chaos which is happening in London will be spreading to other cities and eventually the countryside...over time...if it is not already happening....as the two legged wildlife is carefully cultivated and nurtured for their predictable, controllable, malleable, guaranteed votes.

    And so too it will be here....to the detriment of Americans and America.

    Eventually this will mean Martial Law and then by and by ...Democide.

    Put another way ...absolute power...or divine right of kings.

    Drones are only a way of keeping, maintaining, and intelligence gathering for control...and limiting competition.


    Seems to me that the cell phone IED is a type of crude drone...Is it not???



    By the way JMC.....inductive type coil....you are talking about a close range transmitter....to override signals and controls close up.

    Is that similar to the olde Spark Gap transmitters for the olde time ham radios on Morse Code...in the early days????

    Very dirty type of transmitter..

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  14. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    How would you power it if it destroys electrical equipment?
     
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  15. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Any one EMP you could easily built would probably destroy itself after one shot, but you could shield an armory of EMPs and any other personal electronics you wish to preserve inside a faraday cage (which is simply an enclosed conducting surface).
     
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that may be if the status quo continues, but as a prepper I am preparing for the system to collapse not go on indefinitely.
     
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  17. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    A deterrent that destroys itself in the first few seconds isn't much of a deterrent.

    If someone wants to take you out with a drone you won't have any warning.
    (assuming they know what they are doing)
     
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  18. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    What....????


    Is that not how a bomb works....destroys itself in less than a second and whatever else is in the blast radius ??


    Just my thoughts.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  19. jmc

    jmc Member
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    It is if it destroys itself after frying all the electronics circuits of the drones who are attacking you.

    There is no way to protect yourself from an organization with a lot of resources that wants to kill you and know what they are doing.

    Yet it's surprising how few organizations do really know what they are doing. I was amazed at the case where the Russian government botched an assassination of someone in the U.K.

    If the Russian government can mess up an assassination, anyone can.


    And what about terrorists that get hold of lethal battleware and just send run-of-the-mill drones with knives whizzing around the town killing people at random? In such a scenario, it's entirely plausible that you might have time to set up an EMP and take them out.
     
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  20. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Drone capable of flying while carrying a lethal length knife blade and is sophisticated enough be programmed to perform swarm style attacks, would cost minimum of a $1,000 (very conservative minimum). Shotgun shell cost what $0.50. Drones are not quite and a swarm would make a huge amount of noise. Commercial drone have to fly too low to identify a target so they are just very noisy and expensive clay pigeons. Drones are not even very good as scouts either, because of their limitations and those are the $3,000 and up drones.
     
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  21. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    The "future" is now:

    It will be on you before you know it's coming.
     
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  22. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    AND who would spend that kind of money to come after me / you? Assassins are dime a dozen compared to the cost of that drone. If the government knows where you are and wants you, they don't have to waste an expensive drone to Kamikaze you. $2.50 = 50 cal cartridge and you are toast. Nobody spend the cash (DRONE) resources for low level targets and high value targets they just use a missile.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    drones would only be used to find you/me, once they know where you are they'd send in a squad to arrest or kill you.
     
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  24. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    As I understand it military drones are hardened against EMP and their control systems are encrypted. However the drone available to the public operate on the same bands as wifi. Wifi signal jammers are already commercially available for this purpose, they're intended for use around prisons etc.
     
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  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    post SHTF wont wifi will go down when the power grid does??
     
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    1. Ystranc
      I can see the misunderstanding, I don't mean to say that drones depend on wifi or the Internet, they just use the same wavelengths/frequencies which is why some indoor drones can be controlled from an iPad.
       
      Ystranc, Mar 7, 2019
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  26. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Ystranc, you make a good point.

    My suggestion of an EMP device might be overkill.

    Still, I think Ystranc's idea of stocking up a Wifi jammer to defend against weaponized run-of-the-mill drones would be an affordable, advisable preparation measure to take in a scenario where terrorists use drones to randomly slaughter civilians - and one that not many preppers have currently taken.

    As for commercial drones being clay pigeons. I'm not so sure. I think the hardware of commercial drones has the potential to move and swerve in very erratic ways and with the right software downloaded into them to execute a a variety of evasive maneuvers, I think you might find them very hard to pick off indeed. Especially a swarm coming in from all directions at the same time.

    There's no one, unique SHTF scenario.

    It's entirely possible that terrorist-launched drones could wreak havoc and kill many people under circumstances where WiFi and 4G was still up and running.

    There may even still be food in the shops, it's just that every time you go out to buy some there's a 1% chance that a weaponized commercial drone might stab you in the jugular.
     
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  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    pre SHTF this scenario might have some validity, POST SHTF i'm not so sure.
     
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  28. jmc

    jmc Member
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    If you die before the SHTF, there's not much value in preparing to survive afterwards.
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    your more likely to die AFTER SHTF than before, whats the chances of a drone strike in the here and now? slim to non existent, I certainly haven't heard of any, not civilian anyway.
     
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  30. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    I've seen videos of much cheaper commercial drones rigged with parts from RC cars that allow them to fire guns or drop explosives.

    They don't have to be too high tech to be used as a weapon.
    They just need to be capable of handling the needed weight.

    I see little need for "swarms" of them against individuals though, when one or two should be sufficient.
     
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    1. Ystranc
      We used to call this toffee bombing when we played with RC aircraft as kids
       
      Ystranc, Mar 7, 2019
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  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    cant see the reasoning behind why this should happen.
     
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  32. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Was thinking about this TMT Tactical....Thinking this is called a goose gun.


    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  33. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I would think the main use for domestic drones would be as surveillance tools. They're also useful for carrying heaving lines when you want to get a rope or wire to a remote spot.
    Our police force tested one that is night vision/thermal vision capable, they use it for surveillance as well as search and rescue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  34. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Drones are capable of performing many tasks but not the cheap homemade one. Want to bet the drone the police used cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000 plus. I wanted to use drones for scouting purposes (my SHTF plan), the bare minimum was $40,000 and that was not a real good one either. You need to have extremely good cameras to stay above shotgun distance and identify a specific target. You also need very quiet motors (propellers) and very sophisticated programing. Even with all that, they can be electronically tracked back to the operator. In an urban (big city Hi-rise buildings) setting commercial drones may have some value. Not too many shot gunners and the noise would be echoed off many structures. In a rural setting, I don't see them as very valuable. Too easy to track a drone back to it's controller / operator. Don't get me wrong, I liked the idea of drones but they have too many weaknesses to be a cost effective weapon and are very limited for recon. They could spot ambush area's but not pick out individuals at the ambush site. Drones would be good for night recon, as they would make a very difficult target at night (remove their flight lights). As a weapon, would not be my first choice.
     
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  35. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Small multiple freq radio jammers maybe to isolate them from base

    Laser scanners to blind them
    Sight screens to baffle them
    12g to bugger them
    Dummy targets to deplete them
    Smoke to blind them

    Do I need to go on?
     
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  36. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Yeah,.,...thinking a 10 gauge goose gun at minimum.

    Looked at one tonight when I went to pick up the Savage model 24 V combination gun in .357 Magnum over a 20 gauge.

    Guy wanted 250 dollars for a 10 gauge single shot with a 36 inch barrel full choke.

    I'm just not that big a glutton for punishment that I want a 10 gauge.



    Yup....10 gauge minimum for drones.

    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite


    Post Script...

    Will go through this Savage Model 24 V this weekend and also get a Case for it wherein I can keep it in the back of one of my vehicles disassembled with ammo....similar to the condition of my Model 24 C Savage.

    Might even post photos of both and put them on here as I did with my two "Assault Lever Guns."


    Yup...My "Assault Combination Guns."
     
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  37. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I like pictures, easy on for my limited mental capacity.
     
  38. jmc

    jmc Member
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  39. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    That would be overkill.

    Larger gauges just put more shot in the air at once, but a decent shot with any shotgun can take down a drone since all you need to do is break a single propeller blade or damage any part of the flight control mechanism.
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    don't worry about drones after SHTF, worry about putting food on the table, that's your main daily problem.
     
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  41. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Not to me.
    By the time you realize you need it, the "drone swarm" is there.
     
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  42. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the small ones that normal people get in the shops are fairly flimsy and low key, easily destroyed.
     
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