Favorite .30 Carbine Loads?

Discussion in 'Guns' started by CivilDefense, Jul 12, 2017.

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  1. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    Hey all. My better half's primary SHTF carbine is an M1 Carbine in, naturally, .30 Carbine. We practice with cheapo stuff, but load it with tested good Hornady defensive loads.

    That said, what are some of your favorite .30 Carbine loads? Thanks for sharing. :)
     
  2. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    I have questions. I've read that .308 & 7.62x51 are identical. In that the 308 was released & commercially availible before it was adopted by NATO when it was tagged in metric.
    Bulk NATO rounds are reasonably priced & by NATO standards, good reliable rounds. Alternately the 308 has options of very high ballistic quality with prices that naturally dramatically increase proportionately.
    I am building an autoloader & barrels come stamped both ways, 308 & 7.62...
    I'd like to know what if any real differences are & should I choose 1 over the other & why? I do like buying bulk ammo so 7.62 seems preferable. Being an autoloader puts limits on the rounds to begin with, so should I be overly concerned that I'm missing out on full capabilities of hyper match grade 308???
     
  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    http://rangehot.com/30-carbine-ballistic-test/#lightbox/1/

    Buffalo Bore
    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=426
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...grain-hard-cast-gas-check-flat-nose-box-of-20
    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=420
    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=418

    vid 110 gr Prvi Partizan JSP


    .30 carbine FMJ vs. Soft Point in ballistic gel (about half-way into video)


    Wish I could have found a video of the Buffalo Bore ammo vs. a huge block of gel, because I feel that the flat point on that ammo would cause lots of damage. However, one wonders how well the Buffalo Bore ammo would feed and fire in specific rifles. The B.Bore flat nose, would it go up the feed ramp? As for the higher velocity, b.bore is staying within SAAMI spec.s.

    During WWII my dad loved his .30 carbine. He and his mates used to shoot rats with these for practice/fun. He hated the Thompson he'd originally been issued. He drove ordinance / tanks -- thus, the short weapons being issued to him and his mates. Thompsons are heavy, especially w/full mag. and they fire open bolt.


    Great for spewing lead, poor for any sort of accuracy, and good'ol'boys want accuracy not matter the weapon.

    .458 SOCOM


    10 ga shotgun (including cut-shell destruction)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFX6addVKIQ
     
  4. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/7-...ster-ammo-whats-the-difference/#axzz4yrchxBKq



    .308 vs 7.62x51 NATO vs. 7.62 CETME

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×51mm_CETME
     
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  5. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    308 is american cal nato in europe used metric but are the same no difference in them great cal for deer many military cal became hunting rifles the 1903 springfeild in 3006. The 3040kraig 308 british 303 all have great history in the deer woods YES THE 308 AND 7.62X51ARE THE SAME ROUND
     
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  6. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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  7. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Nato surplus is weaker than 308 cal ammo made in usa poor powder and quality control its dirty burning and weaker power. 223And nato 556 are not the same round the military 556 is smaller and weaker than the 223 do not mix these rounds they are not the same
     
  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    The 308 came first then the 7.62 X 51. They are not exactly the same in all rifles. As far as it goes as I understand it, the 7.62 X51 is made to fit into all 308 Winchester barrels. The headspace is the same. The first problem comes in that there are certain military speck rifles that have a slightly longer chamber. The military ammo has slightly heavier brass and so this little bit of extra length is not a problem. In SOME cases there HAS been a problem when you fire commercial 308 winchester rounds in these certain military rifles. If you are building the rifle then it will be a 308 standard chamber length and head headspace and so be safe with either loading. The issue isn't in the ammo it is in the variation in certain different military rifles. If the head space is under 1.636" then it is 308 safe while if it is over 1.638" it is 7.62 X 51 military ammo only. For an example the military barrel headspace max allowed in an M14 and an M60 is 1.6455". This is well beyond what would be good with 308 lighter brass commercial ammo! I SUSPECT that when the brass stretches that far you would have one of them eventually pull in two and leave the end of the case in the chamber while ejecting the case head. Then when it tried to cram another round in the chamber you would have a lock up that couldn't be cleared in the field. If you have a military rifle that is in the &.62 X 51 you would need to have the headspace dimensions and chamber length checked by a gunsmith. If it is under 1.636 you can use 308 provided the gun is in excellent condition. The second problem is that the pressure specks for the 308 are a little higher than the 7.62 X 51. I wouldn't want to push this very far if the gun was older but IN GENERAL the overage in most guns would make this difference in pressures not a problem BUT it is a chance that it could do something unfortunate. THERE, clear as mud??
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  9. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I have never read. Or saw that info on the headspace different countries made the rifles so it more than possible i own 7 m14s all made by same company never had a issue with them i do own a few import rifles but i try my best to buy american made firearms in cals that are common so ammo is easy to find and cost is fair
     
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  10. TexDanm

    TexDanm Master Survivalist
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    The difference is in the ALLOWED variation in military barrels and civilian barrels SAAMI and NATO standards are not 100% the same. The chamber in your M14 SHOULD be at or very near to 1.636" that is the SAAMI chamber headspace. The military tolerances though allow it to go out to 1.6455" and this is not a problem because 7.62 NATO ammo cases are not as thin walled as the 308 SAAMI sporting cases. If your gun was made new in the last 20 years it is most likely made to SAAMI specs rather than Nato since the M14 is no longer an American military issued weapon as such.

    The M14 is in my opinion the best battle rifle ever made and is so far above the M16 that they are not even in the same area of discussion. The M16 is an assault rifle and is now being pushed into being the poorest battle rifle ANY army has ever marched into the field with. It was fine in the jungle where you often never actually saw your target and volume of fire was more important than power or accuracy. In the current theaters it is grossly overmatched and insufficient.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  11. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I let a tank run over my m16 carried a ak instead
     
  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    M14 is the best. Issued one in high school.

    I think the Springfield SOCOM 16 would be a great survival rifle. Since the case capacity to barrel volume ratio is what it is with the 7.62 x 51, one doesn't need a long barrel; the powder gets burned. I've held one of these shorties, but not fired one. Sure have lusted after one. An 18" barrel would be better velocity-wise, however these short rifles would be super handy if having to maneuver inside a building. Plus, you could shoot through the walls, floors, and ceilings of the building.
     
  13. GS AutoTech

    GS AutoTech Expert Member
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    I super appreciate all the input. I feel alot of these discussions boil down to using the right tools for the right job. There is no doubt that ".30 caliber" class of rifles are excellent in many ways.
    Knowing when .223 is fine for one job & when 30 cal is needed comes with experience. Utilizing & balancing your resources, rounds & rifles best suited to the task at hand will be an important element of survival.
     
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