Fear Of Preppers

Discussion in 'Mental Preparedness' started by poltiregist, Nov 21, 2019.

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  1. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    As we have seen with the Branch Dividan assault and the assault at Ruby Ridge sometimes the law officials become suspicious of the unnormal lifestyle of some preppers . Sure it would be best to keep the fact that you are a prepper unknown but as in my case one glance toward my house and they know they are looking at the retreat of a serious prepper . Give aways - milk goats in plain sight , a log and stone 18th century style walk in smoke house , a old 18th century style wood cook stove set up and ready in my front yard , a pipe emerging through my roof for smoke to leave is a dead give away . I have an occasional vistor to my retreat and I watch them looking around trying to comprehend as to what kind of a place they have found themselves . Unfortunately this sometimes brings fear out in some people including the local law enforcement . Have you had this problem ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  2. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    We have had on multiple occasions had the law waiting on a county road on our only motorized exit for a member of our group to leave so they can try to stop them and find something illegal they may have done . Duke of Hazard type of high speed chase once took place in the dirt roads of the Ozarks . They were after a sixteen year old kid from our group . They caught him , put a pistol to his temple and threatened to kill him . His crime - riding a four wheeler down a county road . Our group has experienced many arrests for ridiculous charges . Happily it appears we will have all of our group out of jail this Christmas .
     
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  3. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    My guess is that there is a "LOT" that you are not telling us about you and your group.

    You and your group are bringing this problem to yourselves. You and your group are being arrogantly foolish. And you and your group will pay a high price for "rogue" social behavior.

    I don't think they fear you or your group. You are not a person preparing for future social problems. You and your group are currently a social problem, and deliberately antagonizing the your local law enforcement. You are being stupid. And they will crush you for violating the law.

    You need to get your head out of your ass. You are delusional. Your also bringing unwanted attention to this forum and the members of this forum, who are not rogue and not violating the law.
     
  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    You are partially correct . There is a lot I am not saying . If other members deem me being here a threat to this forum or them please speak up . I have no problem leaving this forum if it is deemed I am a liability .
     
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  5. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    The other possibility is that "you" are a Law Enforcement Mole, and are fabricating shit to bait members into discussions about illegal behavior.

    Either way this forum has lost (by my count) about ten or twelve good members in the last few months, because of subject matter being discussed.
     
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    @poltiregist . You have not stated anything that would endanger this forum. Some folks do get a bit more paranoid than me, which is sad. Yes, local law may be concerned by your group, but that is your issue, not the forums. If somebody is too scared to be here, they are free to leave. I don't chase off folks for being too prepared. I only chase trolls and wimps.
     
  7. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    However he has regularly stated and complained about the Federal Government reading his mail, listening on his phone calls, watching his house, going through his bank accounts, etc.. That they are constantly watching him. CIA-FBI-NSA.

    However he does this with such regularity that it is more likely he is attempting to bait people into conversations and disclose information they may regret.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  8. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I do NOT believe Polt is a mole or working in any capacity for the government, but...

    I (and more than a few others) have noticed that MOST of the discussions here that involve illegal behavior are started by Poltiregist, so “bait” seems to be a good word for it.

    I don't hang out much here anymore for a couple of reasons. This is one of them. It's not a matter of being paranoid as TMT alludes, but frequent discussions about illegal behavior are not what I (and many others) are about.

    Additionally, we are all dealing with new normals now: Red Flags. I'm sure that long before I joined this forum, I have been on a government watch list of some kind or another just because I am interested in self-reliance, wilderness survival, primitive living skills, and disaster & SHTF preparedness. I can't help that, but I certainly don't want to falsely jack up my name on a watch list by associating with folks who regularly discuss stupid crap that is illegal as hell. Many survival forums do not allow this for a reason.

    Also, this forum’s usage of its member’s computer processors is over the friggin top. WAY more than any other website or forum that I am familiar with, which is saying a lot. (It is obviously not just an ordinary scripting problem, lol.)

    So, stick a fork in me; I’m done with posting content here like I used to, but I do still drop in now and then to see how my friends are doing.



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  9. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I appreciate your opinion . No I am not trying to bait anyone and no I am not some kind of government agent . Being an over the top prepper I may be guilty of .
     
  10. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I am no longer a member of this forum . Good luck to you all .
     
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  11. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Polt, I don't think you are an agent of any kind. Rather, I think you might be into "advanced preps" that most people are not interested in, or would rather not talk about on an open forum.

    Either way, you will notice it is just only a very small handful of folks who will engage with you on those topics. Meanwhile, the rest of us have gone elsewhere for more meaningful and actionable content. Sorry, but not sorry.

    For the most part, I do appreciate you and the many good posts you've made, but some of it... is damaging.


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  12. arctic bill

    arctic bill Expert Member
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    I am reluctant to tell people that i am a prepper unless i trust and know them. most people think we are some sort of hillbillies mutant types
     
  13. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I have no problem blending in, and being the gray man. Nobody knows what we have, and we will keep it that way.
     
  14. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    people are sure getting thin-skinned on this board!!! Some of the people here are a bit autistic in their social skills but it is in the disagreements that I learn the most. I think that the comment inferring that Poltergeist might be a government mole was out of line and assinine but HEY suck it up. The world is full of assholes and you can't run away every time one of them makes an ass out of themselves. It has been rumored that even I, on ocassion can be an ass. Keith evidently couldn't stand that some of us didn't agree that the USA is the sole cause of global warming. I have to tell you though, thin skin is NOT a survival trait but then again acting an ass isn't either.

    The Ruby ridge fiasco and the Waco massacre had nothing to do with them being preppers. Those and hundreds of other assaults that didn't get national attention were a part of the Clinton Reno Gestapo that was trying to put legal firearms dealers out of business. They played this game where Pig one would go in the other room and make an "anonomus" phone call to Pig 2 and tell them that such and such FFL dealer was doing all sorts of criminal things. then based on the "anonomus" tip they would go and kick the door. I am intimately aware of this because I WAS an FFL dealer at the time and we got hit too. They got an "anonomus" tip that we were selling coke and dealing firearms under the table without having paper on them.

    They kicked my partner's door at three in the morning, beat him to a pulp, killed his little girl's kitten, stomped its head, and stole three guns and 400 dollars. They beat him because he was on his knees with his hands cuffed behind his back and one of the Pigs walked out carrying his 4-year old daughter by her hair like a Raggedy Ann doll. He came up off the floor and it took 54 stitches to put his face and scalp back together. They found NOTHING because there was nothing to find. They filled charges against my partner for assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest but agreed to drop the charges if they could keep the guns and the money and he would sign off and not sue them. And that was the end of our FFL business. They even acknowledged that the guns had disappeared while in their hands. We had the paper on them and they checked off each gun as they took them.

    I was lucky. If they had hit my house I would have been like the people in Waco. Had they kicked my door there would have been dead Pigs. I know to only do headshots because they were body armor. I SLEEP with a Mossberg Defender 8 shot 12 ga tricked out shotgun above my head at night. I used to shoot skeet with it so moving targets were not a problem. After that, I sold every gun that I owned that had paper on it and for decades would only by guns person to person for cash.
     
  15. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    If you post anywhere on line, then the government has your information. I will not let the fear of government curb my free speech or freedom of association. Afraid to be associated here, see you, have a good life. Too thin skinned to deal with negative comments, see you, have a nice life. I do respect folks the can't stand the heat and get out of the kitchen. Makes room for more chefs. If you feel like disclosing your defensive preps, then have at it, it is your preps, not mine. I am sure that my negative comments about government, past, present and future, has me on many lists. Firearm ownership will have me on lists but I am not going to lose any sleep over it. Nobody is obligated to stay or leave this forum, do as you please.
     
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  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I will tell you this. If Clinton had been elected I would have probably gone dark...

    I think that it is just how rural Texas is but there is no real problem here with people knowing that you have preparations made for a possible long term problem. When Rita hit us a few years ago we all shined. We had food, water, generators, and all sorts of ways to cook. We actually had a big party. No power...no problems... There are a lot of us around here. I am actually one of the more subtle ones. We even have a few that have built underground in the woods near to me. Those big bunkers are seriously cool!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  17. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    IMO.

    If you think a post is discussing illegal activities and that bothers you, report the post. Problem solved.
    If you think there's some nefarious script running on the forum, disable scripts in your browser. Problem solved.
    If you think you're on a watchlist for being a survivalist, and want off that list, then get off the internet or change your online behavior completely and let your 'suspicious' status expire. Problem solved.
    If you don't like what someone says, or think they're full of BS, ignore them. Problem solved.

    I just took my own advice on that last one, because after repeated requests for some proof of one member's claims and even chasing their username around the internet on multiple survival forums to find it myself, gave up this morning and put them on ignore. Problem solved.

    Personally, if I quit posting it'll be because most of the bandwidth here seems devoted to talking about problems, or talking about other people's problems, and not much on actually what you did to solve a problem. I know how to do an internet search so I don't need the results someone found on google, I want to know your own experience with the solution and why it works or doesn't. And I'm from Missouri when it comes to those solutions, see my sig for details.
     
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  18. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Preparedness is encouraged and supported by our society as expressed via the national political orgs such as CDC, USCGA, and FEMA.

    "Prepper" still has a negative reputation much like "motorcyclist" used to have. Think of Marlin Brando and then Fonda of "Easy Rider". The bike crowd changed. The prepper community still has some of the Y2K idiots storing gasoline in dangerous ways and the other dangers that get blamed on real preppers.

    I believe it best to share knowledge with those trying to get into prepping. The Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, the High School Jr. ROTC, many other orgs, welcome speakers on a variety of subjects to include preparedness.

    For the senior, advanced-level prepper, there are adult orgs welcoming speakers.

    The collective knowledge-level is much lower than you'd think.
     
  19. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Back to the topic,,, I think that the "fear" of preppers and all sorts of other groups and ideas is a direct result of the Liberal controlled media. there is no mention of the quiet good people that are just trying to protect their families by being prepared. They instead bring forth every extremist that has gone over the top.

    To some extent they have made a lot of it into a fact by influencing both sides. The idea that an assault rifle is THE most necessary part of any survival plan comes from movies and TV shows. They have taken the least deadly weapon of any modern military force and made it seem like a magic wand of death. The same can be said for the hi-capacity semiauto pistols. Every TV show and movie at some point these days shows the good guy blazing away and killing all the bad guys while mostly never bothering to aim.

    The prepper community has bought into this just as much as the liberal programmed sheeple have. The idea that they are pushing towards both sides is that it is all about the killer guns. You take some poor idiot that is totally dependent on others to keep him or her safe and then program them to think that guns are the cause of violence and semiauto weapons are deadly monsters that are the main cause of all violence and are you surprised that they are afraid.

    Creating fear is POWER! The media promotes fear among black people by putting every case where a black person got shot and making it a “racial” incident. In most cases, if you can wipe the crap off and get to the facts the race had nothing to do with it. Criminals that attack or fight with cops get shot. It happens all the time but is only really national news when the criminal is black. The Ferguson Missouri fiasco was TOTALLY a media created thing.

    The most current thing is the push that they are making to create a fear of all Islamic people. Islamophobia is an irrational fear that is being promoted. I understand and share the fear of Islamic terrorists and extremist but I have just as much concern about Christian extremists and terrorists. The thing to fear is the people that are TERRORISTS and not their other affiliations. I was raised deep in Klan country and let me tell you for a FACT, a lot of those guys are nuts and scary as hell. Christianity and the cross as an emblem are deeply entrenched in the Klan. That does NOT make Christians in general frightening.

    I believe that we as people that want to be prepared to some extent owe it to ourselves to try and offer people a different view of what we stand for. I make and give away little survival kits to non-prepper friends. I make little ferro rod fire starters and give them away and often demonstrate how to effectively use them. I openly acknowledge that I have made preparations to handle all sorts of different disasters. I clearly explain that it is just like any other form of insurance. I hope that I never need it but sleep better knowing that I am prepared to take care of my loved ones.

    The mindless timid are beyond hope. They have been brainwashed in a certain line of belief and are not able to learn but there are many out there that have just never been exposed to the reality of preparing for disasters and only have the lies and misrepresentations of the media. If you watch TV and let it define what a prepper is you will believe that most preppers are crazy poorly educated Hillbillies with bad teeth that drink a lot OR they are crazy paranoid militaristic Rambo wannabes. If that were true I would be afraid too!!!

    Sheeple can’t deal with harsh realities. The biggest difference between Sheeple and Preppers is that Preppers take PERSONEL responsibility for things. We are prepared to protect ourselves and feed ourselves. When something happens we are NOT going to sit with our hands out begging for a handout. When we hear someone kick the front door to our homes we don’t hide in the closet and call 911 and hope that the cops get there before the intruder finds us. Even in places where guns are not easily available, we WILL and DO arm ourselves and are mentally prepared to defend our families.

    The Sheeple find anyone willing to defend themselves nearly as frightening as the criminals.
     
  20. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Wow.....Texdanm got it in the X ring here.



    I have wondered myself about a rat in the nest here due to the nature of some of the very personal questions being asked.

    I am also aware of something about poltiregist's op for which many do not seem want to bring up.

    And that is what law is he breaking by what he is doing????

    I don't think that prepping is illegal in most states. Also...one has to be an highly educated liberal/leftist to so imply.

    THE left today is so often want to imply that some higher morality has been violated or trespassed...but so seldom will cite the law being broken...the statute number/citation.

    This is the way many often look at preppers...off their rockers,,,until something goes down and they find themselves unprepared.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  21. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Gate Crasher, I appreciate the tips, but I would have not needed to post what I did if any of them worked.

    (I took the liberty of numbering some points in your post that I'd like to respond to.)

    1) There have been more than a few over-the-top threads that devolved to the point that the owner of the site wrote this to me when we discussed them months ago:

    But apparently he is extremely busy and has not gotten around to this issue yet. I'm not holding my breath, because that convos took place months ago...

    2) Scripts ARE disabled in my browser, and still the CPU usage is over 60, whereas any other site/forum uses far, FAR less. Please see this thread for more info about this problem: https://mysurvivalforum.com/threads/why-is-this-forum-processor-intensive.7070/

    3) As I mentioned in my post yesterday, "I'm sure that long before I joined this forum, I have been on a government watch list of some kind or another just because I am interested in self-reliance, wilderness survival, primitive living skills, and disaster & SHTF preparedness. I can't help that, but I certainly don't want to falsely jack up my name on a watch list.." because of some over-the-top discussions that would not be allowed on most open-forum boards.

    For what it's worth, I wanted this board to be a top-drawer forum for learning and teaching, and invited a lot of quality posters from other forums to here (a few stayed!). I had hoped that this board would someday become a thriving one, not just a handful of folks sitting around the woodstove...

    4) I would never want to put Polt or anyone else on ignore. He, along with many members of this board, has contributed a LOT of valuable content. But eventually, serious things that are pushed under the rug will cause problems for everyone. The owner has seen the potential for trouble as well. Maybe someday he will get around to addressing it, but it sure would be nice if that wasn't even necessary.

    It is not a "Poltiregist" problem; it goes beyond that. It's true that more than a few of his threads end up as serious Red Flag material, but this problem does not pop up only in his threads. Some of us act like we are in a private room or something. We are NOT grey men in here, this is an open board!

    You mentioned the value of seeking solutions; I agree! A while back on another thread, I suggested that a private subforum be created so that folks would have more freedom to discuss certain topics. Oh well... that has not happened yet, but until then....some of us might want to put a lid on certain things?


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    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  22. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Fear curtails freedom, no matter how you justify it. I am not going to restrict my freedoms (speech, 2nd, association, etc.) for fear of some red flag list. To do that, is to give into the liberal socialist that want to control all aspects of our lives. I found poltergeist's plans for self defense interesting but never felt he was advocating we commit any crimes. It was just one more bit of knowledge to add to my data bank. Just like what to plant, and when to plant, it is just data. WROL is simply just that and during that time, nothing is "Red Flag", it is survival. Do I plan to plant mine fields during normal times, Heck No. Do I plan to set up set up trip wires and booby traps during normal times, Heck No. But during WROL any and all things may become a viable option. In my eyes, there is nothing wrong about posting what may need to be done, during WROL, anymore than posting about the possible need to scavenge after the S has hit the fan. I take the sites as I find them, I do not try to remake them. If I don't like the way a site is headed, I leave and find a different site. I don't put people on ignore but I will and have debated a few. If I want a forum to operate in a certain fashion, then I can always invest the time and money to start my own forum.
     
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  23. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Slow learners?
     
  24. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Keep in mind.
    What you do today may not be illegal but tomorrow could become so.
    With some 3 letter agencies recording and saving everything to ginormous hard drives what you say and do today could be used against you tomorrow after it becomes illegal whether it is today or not.

    0fe1e797d386d5a6fda6d1517433ee5e.jpeg
     
  25. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Yes, I saw a news article about this picture the other day. Those buildings hold some of the data that LastOutlaw is speaking of.

    Smart people know that what they say now can impact their freedom now and in years to come.

    Most of the data in those buildings is collected from social media because they are so rich and ripe with so many loose lips, lol.

    TMT, this has nothing to do with liberals or socialists, but everything to do with common sense in the times we are living in. Governments are cracking down on terrorism, etc. etc. and I'd hate for anyone I care for to be innocently caught up in the dragnet because of misconceptions about so-called "freedom of speech." (Yes, you and other members of this board.)


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    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  26. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    For fear of a future crack down, re you afraid to speak your mind? If that is the case, then you have already lost freedom, through fear. As for the liberal socialist comment, what group is pushing for restricting speech, gun ownership, mandating acceptance of perversions, restrictions on religious freedom, and pushing abortion on demand. Yes, in the future it may become illegal to speak out against these things, but you can bet your bottom dollar I will continue to speak out. Surrender of a little bit of your freedoms, will lead to loss of all your freedom.
     
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  27. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    TMT, in this case, you are confusing common sense with fear. There are many things that MOST people don't discuss online, or while waiting in line at Walmart, or any other public place, but only among their like-minded friends and family.

    Do you discuss your whole entire life with strangers? How about your bank account? Credit card numbers? I didn't think so. These things can be used against you if they fall into the wrong hands.

    Are you reading me now? ;)



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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Since I am on a prepper forum and defense for possible futures are relative, yes I would discuss possible future scenarios. If I was on a christian forum, then I would discuss abortion or homosexual issues. But we are talking about being afraid due to "Red Flag" issues. Not if it is appropriate to discuss topic with strangers. I think you are confusing appropriate social setting topics with the fear of coming to the attention of government agencies. This is a prepper forum and future defense method are just as important as knowing which plants to eat and which plants to avoid. Caching items could raise "Red Flags" in the future and could be considered hoarding. That topic could bring down the wrath of a socialist government. I don't remember any outrage when those topic were raised. The point I am making is that a prepper forum should not be challenging it's member because some members "FEAR" discussing these topics. Prepping covers a wide range of topics, including the ugly side of future defense. If this is a problem and you fear to be associated and get on a "Red Flag" list, then you are also free to take what ever action you are comfortable with. I will not give into fear or surrender my free speech, so anther member can have their "Safe Space".
     
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  29. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Bless your heart, TMT. There is a reason that certain topics are taboo on most prepper /survival forums these days. (Hint: It's not about "Safe Spaces.") But no matter how it is explained, you just don't understand why...

    Alrighty then.

    You go right ahead keep talking about stuff that is guaranteed to snag the wrong kind of attention to yourself and those around you....things like killing politicians if they come to your door after the SHTF, etc. etc. ...(remember that thread?)

    It ain't 2007 or even 2015 anymore. If folks who talk like that circle down the drain, others can get caught in the centrifugal action if they swim too close to the turds in the toilet bowl. (No, I don't think you are a turd, TMT. It's just a figure of speech.)

    Even if the owner of this site ever got around to protecting his investment (from the consequences of allowing the kinds of topics that most boards don't allow for obvious reasons), I still would not hang around much because our computer's CPUs are being smoked to death by whatever the hell is going on under the hood of this forum.

    But, as I said, I do have friends here that I care about and will be dropping in now and then. (I have been posting more PMs than on the board lately.)

    For what it's worth, take care, TMT.



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  30. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    When will people learn not to commit anything to writing that the don't want to be read by others (through ill will, accidentally or otherwise), this now goes for all kinds of electronic communications as well.
    If you're uncomfortable about associating with certain people, don't.
    It really is that simple.
     
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  31. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Due to the self-sufficiency thingy going on amongst the middle and lower middle-class of Appalachia, I wonder if the federal boys are planning on raiding the entire region between north Georgia and Central Pennsylvania.

    In this region, there exist more firearms than people. Gardens and even food-canning is pandemic -- GASP! Folk have land and even raise critters. Folk go camping and hunting. When the electricity goes out, people say things like, "Well shucks, ain't that just sweet", then light up the kerosene lamps and toss more wood on the fire.

    We've even been called "deplorable".

    Ground-Zero for a federal raid:

    TIl0izHsSaNK9gE_eG3tBv8MVABh73SB.png
     
  32. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I personally have very little fear of the Feds. They have a lot of bigger more realistic problems to worry about than people that are just discussing survival topics. The things that I avoid are simple. I try not to promote sedition though I make no pretense that I will sit back and allow our government to throw out the constitution and become a dictatorship.

    I make no effort to hide the fact that I know how to make a bomb. I don't do it and would not get specific on how to do it but if you are interested the explicit details are openly available on the internet. Will going to these places and downloading things get you looked at? Hell yes, and I would hope that it did. Will it get you raided. not in my lifetime and I have been on a watch list for many decades.

    Even when I was involved in things best left unmentioned I never doubted that there were watchers. To some extent that is just a necessary part of freedom. Along with freedom, there has to be some responsibility and it is best that there is some effort to call in that responsibility before the body count starts rolling in. I am willing to accept being watched in the hope that in the future they may be able to step in before things like 911 happen. Do certain parts of the government at time misuse this. YES, the Clinton and Obama administrations will go down in history as the most corrupt administrations of the 20th and 21st centuries.

    In my experience, at this time most of the government watchers are not looking for people that are just talking. They are very busy tracking people with the intent of ACTING on various nefarious plans. We need to be careful and not letting reasonable caution become paranoia. Concern is a thoughtful process but if you let that concern become fear you lose most of that thought and then are apt to make bad decisions.
     
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  33. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Fear drive too many folks. Yes there are legal issues that do prevent certain topics for being discussed and that is unfortunate. Having a private section would not have changed ANY legal requirements --- failed logic. What make us any different from the socialist, if we attack another member because we don't like what they post? The Antifasta folks do that, the Nazi's did that, China does that to most of the religions, BUT I did not think the members on this forum stooped to that level. I do like reading what others have in mind or plan for WROL, that does not mean I will follow their lead. Censorship, is a control method, not an exchange of ideas. After SHTF, anybody coming to my door could become a target. I left the last forum because the Admin and the Mods were deciding what and who should be censored, even when it did not violate forum rules. I am not leaving this forum because a few members are not comfy with some of the posts. One more point, you can't be too worried about being associate with this forum, if you plan to continue to drop in. Again failed logic, either the forum is dangerous or it is not. If you feel it is dangerous, then you not should visit it. If it is not dangerous then we should not be attacking fellow members. Freedom is the ability to express ideas, weather we approve of them or not.

    Now just to be clear, If and when the WROL and TEOTWAWKI happens, nobody uninvited better set foot on my property. That includes any stupid politicians from any political group, local, county, state, or federal, if such still exists, which I seriously doubt. Note: the qualifying phrases, which turn the statement from possible legal action into fiction writing. What may or may not happen in a mythical future is just that, fiction. I don't remember any member posting they were or planned to take any illegal actions, during normal times.
     
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  34. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Old Geezer,

    I'm "getting the feel" it's the exact opposite. Appalachia is the valuable area that's ideal for rehab and the coastal areas are the national infections that never heal.

    My vantage point in Appalachia Virginia looking west and southwest - not north. Interstate Highway 81 is getting much needed $$$ for rehab and some lane expansion. Appalachia Virginia - to include the Shenandoah Valley a bit north, but connected, are getting the new businesses induced by the Federal government's encouragement. I believe this is happening because the current population of Appalachia are self-sufficient and an ice storm does - not - mean "Call 911". Self-sufficiency is in. Welfare is phasing out.

    It's in the Virginia coastal areas that residential housing rates will skyrocket because of increased electric costs and insurance costs - less, perhaps, certain hazards like flooding where there will be NO insurance and thus no mortgage financing. Some resiliency efforts are occurring on the coast but they are directly related to USN support.

    It's the SOUTH of Alabama and Mississippi that's "Holy Land". They are part of the US energy corridor connecting to Louisiana and Texas. Mississippi participates in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. SIDEBAR: A favorite bumper sticker of mine from years ago: "Let Them Freeze In The Dark.".

    A closing comment: West Virginia is the relocated Washington, D.C. seat of government. The actual geographic Washington, D.C. is a ... well, both literally and figuratively: A SWAMP !

    Feet Notes:

    LBJ knew the connection of New York's Appalachia to Wall Street. His Great Society's Appalachian Regional Development Act (1965) gave NY's 4 Appalachian counties some funds for perhaps kerosene or February trips to the Caribbean.

    Bush 41 had a Middle East "peace conference" between Syria and Israel in Shepardstown, West Virginia. The place is nice.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Good info, thnx
       
      Old Geezer, Nov 24, 2019
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  35. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TMT Tactical,

    What is missing is that private citizens do not determine the gravity of the situation.

    WROL cannot be determined by a private citizen.

    I've posted here - several times - the abbreviation / acronym : "COG". It's "Continuity of Government".

    In practical terms, even if communications fail, there's still someone in charge and the national population is obliged to continue their lives as best they can. Also, in practical terms, some of those in the "cut off" population segments, have people with Continuity of Government jobs.

    The headache is minimizing the dangers and that means rapid deployment of public health care arrangements and transportation rehab to focus on roads.
     
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  36. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    once the power goes off that will be WROL, all hell will break lose once the store shelves are empty-whether WROL is declared or not, probably not, it will be a fact not a declaration.
    best place to be in those circumstances is not in a big city.
    there may be some sort of government left but whether they can function without electricity or fuel is a moot point, and it will probably be relegated to a very small area.
    in Britain we don't have enough troops or Police to control the whole country and any government left will only control a small part of London, the outer provinces will be abandoned.
     
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  37. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    Basically, we're in agreement. It's the specifics that really will govern the situation.

    Of course, the metro cities are finished. Even before lack of food there will be disease. We've got the sick and dying living alone and the results are guaranteed.

    The BIG difference in our views - and admitting to not knowing the UK - ... ... am guessing parts of London are as prepared as the best US places eg London's Mayfair, Marylebone, Belgravia, Westminster, and the North Sea oil fields' shore support (Prestwick Airport might be a better prepared place than the Royal family's retreat around Vancouver, BC, Canada. Here, the public sector - real public sector: public safety and security, fire and rescue, public health, utilities (Glen Cambell "I am a lineman for the county) are given preference for funding, facility locations and etc.are already off-grid and "hardened" We might not have a Federal Dept of Education.

    Here in the upstart colony of Virginia, those working in the COG - Continuity of Government fields, eg civilians employed at the military, civil facilities, support programs, have priorities built into their neighborhoods. Coastal Virginia is one big naval base with the Palace Guard at Quantico.

    Now distilling all this down to form an equation, ...... ditching the decay might just be an improvement and enhance whatever recovery occurs.

    LW, You know darn well why I write sketchy.
     
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  38. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    it has always been said in the UK prepping circles that troops and Police post SHTF will go AWOL and look after their own families first, especially if the shops are empty and power is off.
    my location is so far removed from the UK governments power base(Westminster/London) that most people-not even preppers but "ordinary" folk- think we will be abandoned in a major catastrophe and left to get on with it as best we can, that's a well known belief in this area.
    the South West of England is a "poor cousin" when it comes to funding and there is only one rail line into the area which is regularly shut down by floods and high tides-it runs along the coast right next to the sea which was a stupid place to put it in the first place, good old Brunel, and there is only one main highway into the area, I say "main" road but many outsiders wouldn't call it that and it gets regular traffic hold ups and tail backs due to road traffic accidents .
     
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  39. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I do not know a lot about the UK but considering the size and the population I would think once the food runs out in the cities there would be a major exodus into the outlying areas. I wouldn't think anywhere in the UK would be safe from the exodus of the masses.
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I have had people on forums tell me " nowhere in the UK is safe" but what do they know? they usually live in London and surrounding commuting areas so on that context they are probably correct.
    those of us who live in the provinces know differently!.
    British people do not have a history of evacuating (even in WW2 is was mainly children and even they didn't stay away for long) and where would they go? I have already done this subject many times before and as far as British people are concerned its a non starter( maybe the nearest "rescue centre" but no further.)
    different in the US with your forest fires and hurricanes, neither of which happen here.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Seems like during emergencies, people split into the "look to others for help" and the "look within myself for answers" groups. I've seen people go blank in an emergency, they almost literally freeze, they can't seem to move. The weak know only what they know -- they lack essential adaptation skills. I've personally heard a couple of urbanites say, "There aren't any people there, how frightening is that!" They were talking about rural areas. I heard a Scottish university professor put down, royally look down upon, his own kinsmen who lived in the rural area of the Highlands.
       
      Old Geezer, Nov 24, 2019
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  41. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    I do understand the views coming from the UK prepper groups. We have them also. We also have - and I am just about positive HM Government does also - USG "think tank" views coming from every forum: web, conferences, retreats, "suggestion boxes", all else, ...

    Here, we push "COG" and am guessing it's the same in the UK. The BIG difference is that areas removed from the D.C. environs are valuable and desirable. The problems are the crime-ridden sections of the large metro-cities with many being close to D.C.

    It's been a discussion topic on whether US military and LEOs would continue with assignments if/when SHTF. I've heard about "Janissaries" in discussions. The term's historical meaning came from the Ottoman Turks' capture of boys and young teen age boys and making them into slaves in support of the Sultan, evolving into an army. They had no family, no "back-home" community; just who they worked with was "family". Their loyalty was their co-workers. ...... ...... ......

    Today, we have less worry about desertions because low-quality living ...... and it is not bad-quality living; just not the extras of the welfare state ...... allows for continuing the assignments. Much of Middle America is NOT radical and the radical elements will be leaving the scene by various means.

    If I ever got stuck in London eg at Gatwick, Heathrow, Brize-Norton, and SHTF, I'd try to get to the road to Cardiff and inquire about next boat out - to where I don't know. I do know London and environs will be a test tube of disease, unknown germs and mass crime.

    ......

    I vaguely remember Christine Keeler's associate, Mandy Rice Davies, was from somewhere around Cardiff / at least some area of Wales. Heard she became a millionaire and moved to Tel Aviv.
     
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  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I'm OCD, therefore I first make this statement that everybody is all too aware of. A truly apocalyptic event wiping-out the vast majority of the human population on earth will result in circumstances wherein "survivors" will have to be utterly and totally self-sufficient, be brilliant in IQ, have robust health, and possess a lot of luck. OK, I got that statement out of the way.

    I believe that we preppers have a pretty good grasp of what will happen during a gut-wrenching SHTF scenario wherein a goodly majority of the population is left alive ... at least at first; time will tell how many survive long-term. Here are some points we generally agree upon concerning Western and developed nations:

    > Attempting to make it in a large urban area will be one herculean task. How does one deal with pandemonium? In my life I've noted that when people go irrational, they really get the job done. The majority of the herd people are experts at losing their sh##.

    > When it hits the fan, governments will focus on attempting to restore order to the areas of greatest population density, i.e. the cities and suburban areas housing the people supporting the functions of urban activities. The likelihood of governments writing-off cities is low. After all, the gov. folk making the decisions live in the cities as do their friends and family. Even the places to which the gov. types would escape are still rather heavily populated or are large military facilities. Could governments suddenly abandon the heartlanders? Yes. Good. The cities will only be concerned about heartland regions as far as obtaining food and fuel. Good luck with that. People feed their own families first.

    > There will be people attempting to abandon the cities and head for more rural areas, true. However, they will have grand difficulties doing so. They haven't the skills nor the supplies to get out of the cities. Transportation lines will be a disaster or completely useless. Should they succeed, they will not be accepted. If their journey is enabled by military, upon arrival, they'll find themselves in camps. Trying to get locals to quarter them will be met with failure -- to include violence. Pillaging gangs will, quite frankly, have short existences. The only time that you will see some motorcycle gang take over a small town is when you are watching a movie -- it is the stuff of fiction. Big gang in my small home town had a walled-off compound and it existed only on the skirts of the town's city limits. The gangs gathered toys for Christmas. Story here: get along with the locals or get going or get dead.

    > If there is a pandemic, it will hit the cities where unhealthy concentrations of people exist. There will be quarantines and these will be enforced with military. Heartlanders will be 10x more vigilant about "taking care" of outsiders (the lead solution).

    > Communities supporting military bases and facilities will be protected -- at least the attempt will be made. Military families live in these communities as do the people, who with their skills, keep the bases operational. Military protects their own first and why shouldn't they.

    > My last point (hope others add) concerns culture. Urban vs. Rural = two separate views of life, ways of life. During a SHTF situation, should the mixing of these two cultures be attempted in any way, it will be doomed to catastrophic failure.
     
  43. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Old Geezer,

    Above does contain some Donald Rumsfeld "known unknowns" and some "It depends" on what resources - personnel and critical infrastructure are around for use.

    I do not believe - or perhaps do not know - if order restoration to areas of greatest population density will get a priority focus. LA, San Francisco, Chicago, Philadelphia have much less critical aspects to a national recovery than eg the Port Fourchon, Louisiana - Houston corridor, a population center in its own right. This area houses the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and the places to make the products along with the skilled labor. Hampton Roads, Virginia is "Pri 1" because of the USN presence. D.C. will already have its key people evacuated to northern Virginia and West Virginia. Places like the Utah population corridor hosting Defense Depot Ogden are priority.

    Many mid-sized urban areas eg the Ithaca, New York area, the West Point, New York area are, may I say "useless" ? The small and medium urban cities on the critical waterways get priority. Those along the Mississippi and Tenn-Tom alternate waterway: Priority. Note that Miami isn't really needed nowadays. Miami presents more problems than solutions. The new Orlando area covers the area.

    It's interesting to ponder; I am: "The likelihood of governments writing off cities is low". Philadelphia, Baltimore, San Juan, San Francisco, Portland, Buffalo ?

    The heartlanders are those working the Defense Depots throughout the fruited plain - or what's left of it. They work the aviation supply facilities and the truck stops. Already mentioned the emergency petroleum stuff on the Gulf Coast.

    Now, ... one item needs much refinement. City populations have both the knowledgeable and prepared and the mental drifters and dependent. I once attended a conference on evacuation New York City. I loved the gallows humor. They have problems landing aircraft at JFK without incident. A quarter of their population won't be going anywhere. This is the dependent. I am using the smaller 25% number but other say it is higher.

    The nation's big cities are not only the Rockefeller Centers, the once equivalent in San Francisco, etc. Jamaica Bay area residents are like the SFO Mare Island / Alameda types. They're "street-wise" and mobile. Ditto: LA, San Diego, Phoenix, St Louis, and other places I'm omitting for reasons of brevity although will squeeze in Milwaukee and Minneapolis/St Paul.

    True, transport lines of communication will be disrupted and what exists reserved for the military and responders.

    Areas of the US can be declared disaster areas with mandatory evacuation requirements.

    Urban versus rural way of life now has a hybred. It's because the jobs are in the big cities, the rural and suburban get attracted to the locations with the jobs. The blend is apparent if looking for it.
     
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  44. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    A lot of really great posts and some interesting comments. Here are a few items that come to my mind. Cities, population is at a minimum 10X larger (very low estimate) than any law enforcement agencies located within the city. Police stations are not designed to house LEO dependents (family members). So during a national grid down, mass ciaos event, the local police officers will either have to abandon their posts or move all their families to some central location. If there is a military base close, then maybe the LEO's families can be relocated there but that is really in doubt, as the military families will also need to be housed there. The majority of military dependents live off base and there will extremely limited resources to feed and house all the dependents. Family safety will be the weak link in the continuation of government. Most LEO's, First Responders, Military personnel, civilian support personnel, are not going to abandon their families to the tender mercies of their neighbors. God, Country and family is not real. Reality is FAMILY, country and then god.
     
  45. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon TMT Tactical,

    That's why I referenced the term "Janissaries".

    The weak link is solvable - at least to some degree.

    Many members of the military are really just disguised unemployment. The core members can meet deployment requirements. Add the contractors. By definition, they can also. They are all over here.
     
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  46. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Good evening Pragmatist.

    Please describe the "Core Members" that are needed. It has been my experience the boots on the ground folks are the one's that get it done. Those will require a lot of resources to care for their families.
     
  47. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    OG. I live in the heart of West Virginia and was surprised by the content of this thread. Citizens that fear their government are not citizens. Fear is the tools of socialist and their communist masters. I may be an old mean ass hillbilly, but I refuse to fear my government. The past president called me and my brothers "probable terrorist" and I could care less, as my oath was to my country, not his sorry a$$.I

    It's sad people fear discussing anything prepped related on this site.

    Dale
     
  48. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I was making the point that the feds would have a difficult time attempting to control such a large, self-sufficient, area.

    When the government goes rogue, then it becomes the enemy. The Jews of Germany had every reason to fear their government. As anti-Constitutionalists make inroads into securing permanent power behind the scenes, such activities should be feared and attacked. Their activities constitute treason.

    The feds will destroy you, they will kill you. My dad was in the middle of illegal gambling operations. As a boy, I saw my dad's friends disappear because they were headed for federal penitentiaries. Dad and his buddies paid-off the local cops and state representatives, but they couldn't pay-off the federal boys.

    The feds murdered in Waco. They murdered at Ruby Ridge.

    And it may not be you the feds come for. They may target your family.

    Moonshiners in S.Appalachia shot and killed two revenue agents back during prohibition. The feds came down busting stills, arrested dozens of men, and killed anyone who got in their way. Thus in Tennessee and N.Carolina, word was to never kill a fed, else you'll get everybody else killed.

    Gotta always fly well beneath the radar.

    Dalewick, rather fascinating that you imagine you can fight off a federal raid.

    "If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows no fear, I have never seen a brave man. All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened."
    George S. Patton

    I guess General Patton was just another sissy.

    One experiences fear. That emotion drives preparedness. Pride not only gets the warrior killed, but also his fellows. I most fear what the government can do to my family. Me, I died a good while back.
     
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  49. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TMT Tactical,

    "Core members" are those in the military services that are skilled, in physical shape, trained and deployable for work assignments. Many on the payroll in today's military are not. Some are in the military on waivers for legal infractions. Some are unwed mothers with day care provided by government. Many other examples of this "disguised unemployment" exist.

    A typical "core member" would be a recent high school graduate who joins the military, completes the training and acclimates to a military style of life such as frequent deployments for unknown lengths of time.

    Another typical core member could be a contractor employee. The same type of attributes are present.

    All these folks are not "loners" but rather those in a sort of fraternity where their social living arrangements are acceptable to them and they function well.

    I mentioned the term "Janissary" to flavor my rambling about this subject. We have a small de facto military - although larger than the Brits' and French. Here in the Navy Norfolk corridor, base housing for dependents might be seen as slowly phasing out. I can guess this is mirrored in San Diego also.

    The US does have some viable reserve forces, both as units and individuals in a labor pool of special skilled available labor such as COIN (counterinsurgency), medical, intel, diesel-electric maintenance,.. A weakness is the foreign language arena and civil affairs.

    Hopefully my above provides a rudimentary reply to "core members".
     
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  50. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Afternoon Pragmatist

    My father and one son are retired Navy. I am a military brat, so I am very familiar with military life. My navy retired son lives in San Diego and I can assure you there is not enough base housing to accommodate all the family dependents in your core group. The majority of the "Core Group" all live off base. Even the majority of the single guys choose to live off base, for very obvious reason --- freedom of actions. So moving back to "Continuance Of Government" the weak spot is still families and now add into it, ability to report back for duty. In a true national emergency (grid down) the service men and women, are not going to be able to report back for duty in any meaningful number. All roads, street and freeways will be blocked with wrecked and abandoned vehicles. Now add in the problem for LEO's and other first responders to protect their families and the COG is going to go out the window. Family first, then the Tribe (fellow work mates). Continuation of the armed forces will not be top priority for the service personnel, their families will be top priority. If I can't bring my family to safety, then I am going to stay and protect them, as best I can. That is just my 2 cents and is worth what anybody paid for it.
     
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