Food

Discussion in 'Finding, Identifying, and Preparing Food' started by Sourdough, Sep 3, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    b2bf19d47baca44093ab9df16e804e95.jpeg Food is a weapon. Nations weaponize food against nations, governments use it against dissenters, invaders use it against holdouts. Here are examples from the recent past.

    Sherman's 1864 March to the Sea in Georgia was a scorched earth campaign. Horses, mules, cattle and millions of pounds of fodder were confiscated. Farms were stripped and put to the torch. The novel and movie Gone With The Wind was set in this time.

    The British naval blockade of Germany from 1914 to 1919 led to widespread starvation. The most reliable account puts the death toll at 424,000. The unpayable war reparations levied on Germany after the war led to more hunger during the Weimar era.

    Stalin's confiscation of food and blockade of Ukraine in 1932-1933, for resisting collectivization of farms, resulted in death by starvation of about five million people.

    Nazi Germany's "Hunger Plan" of 1941 to divert food to Germany from Soviet countries was to allow only a small remnant of the population to survive, as slave labor. As it was, huge numbers of conquered peoples perished from hunger, including one rarely cited, the Netherlands.

    For the first three years of the war World War II, German U-boats successfully attacked shipping bound for Britain. While they didn't manage to close the shipping lanes as completely as did the Royal Navy in the previous war, the losses forced drastic cuts to already severe food rationing

    Operation Starvation, begun by the US in the waning days of World War II, used advanced sea mines to all but destroy what remained of Japan's merchant fleet. Some experts claim it could have won the war had it begun earlier.

    None of these famines were from natural causes—drought, insect infestation or plant disease and the like. But have a care, weaponized hunger isn't "instead" of natural causes, it's in addition to natural causes. Notice the accelerating ramp up of the price for pork in China due to the epidemic of "pig ebola". They're drawing down reserves at present, when those are gone there is no obvious alternative source for the quantity needed. And the knock-on effects for substitutes is under way, just as their import tariffs take full effect.

    The food supply is a target for any number of disasters. Most times it evades a hit altogether, sometimes it's merely wounded, occasionally it takes a ruinous blow. There are no guarantees. Disruptions often can't be foreseen well enough to do much good. Example: poor growing weather in the UK and the desperate demands of a hungry Europe caused food rationing from 1945 to 1948 even more severe than it was in the war years. The successful survivalist will have a secure source of food with sufficient reserves for unforeseen adversities.

    Extracted from the current issue of the wonderful, "WOOD PILE REPORT"
    http://www.woodpilereport.com/html/index-593.htm
     
  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Climate change is causing crop failures in Australia, live stock are being sold off before they starve to death. I can see some farmers going out backwards & some will be suicideing. How long before food shortages I wonder!
    Keith.
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    The three legged stool - shelter , food and water . On the food leg I will highly recommend all prepper / survivalist to have a hand operated grain grinder . This opens up a lot of food potential . Things can be ground up and boiled . Sacked corn at the feed store sells for about seven dollars for a fifty pound bag . It needs no refrigeration and will keep for months , years perhaps if properly stored for long term . When boiled it will swell up around five times its dried kernel form " estimated " . For those that have a limited food availability such as those planning to shelter in an high populated area this cheap food source could be crucial . A grinder will cost around thirty dollars on Amazon . Don't order one coming out of China because it " may never arrive " and things on the political front are crumbling very fast .
     
  5. Rebecca

    Rebecca Master Survivalist
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    This topic and the recent one on ways of storing food reminded me of something I wanted to bring notice to. This is not for all our experienced members whom I am sure have long since worked out how much food they require to survive 6 months, a year or so on. This is more for the new preppers to think on.

    How much food is really needed per person per day?

    Judging by the posts I see on Facebook survival groups it is something not thought through properly. I see people boasting about the 10 or 20 kgs they have put away in long term storage. This is to get them and their family through TEOTWAWKI.

    Please don't think I am belittling anyone's efforts. Any amount of food is better than none. I just want the newbies to stop and think about the amount really needed.

    The average person in north America eats on average 4 pounds of food per day

    https://www.stack.com/a/forget-calories-the-weight-of-your-food-is-what-really-matters

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/article/38623-pounds-of-food-united-states-calories/amp

    https://www.precisionnutrition.com/what-are-your-4-lbs

    I'm not getting in calorie content etc. But to feel "full" and not hungry you will need 3 to 5 pounds of food per day. We all know survival on much less is possible. You just won't be happy.

    So working on 4 pounds per day that 20kgs boasted about is 11 days food for 1 person. Just over 5 days for a couple. And barely worth mentioning for a family.

    To quote one of my favorite YouTube prepper channels - "store food to the rafters"
     
  6. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I am going to have an input here, but only a very minor one. I have not given study to this topic. Have I read about caloric intake as it relates to "just getting by" / not dying? Yes, but I committed none of it to memory.

    First, I would have y'all remember the accounts of prisoner of war camps where the prisoners were provided insufficient food. A friend of mine's dad survived over two (maybe 3yr?) years in the Moosburg (Stalag Luft 7a) POW camp. Messed him up in the head. Every time he ate, he would scarf-down the food as if it were his last meal. Couldn't stop himself, burned-in-the-brain.

    I myself split "what I need" into two categories; 1) essential nutrition, 2) carbs/bulk (energy)

    Canned meats have protein and no shortage of fat. Meat is nutritious. Therefore one's mind is taken to cans of Spam, potted meat, sardines/kippered-herring. This stuff lasts for years. And I like kippers. They now have bacon-flavored Spam -- there is a God.

    As to bulk, you've got your classic dried foods, rice, beans, & noodles = sealable glass Mason or Ball jars and O2 absorbers to toss in.

    Throw-ins: sugar, lard for frying, spices, salt, powdered drink for the kids (they'll not hydrate sufficiently if you do not add some flavor to their drinks), powdered milk for the kids.

    Long shelf-life vitamins wouldn't hurt. The B-group of vitamins you need for the body's use of starches, plus your nervous system needs them. Beans and meat provide B-vits, but storage depletes the B group. Dried fruit depletes vit.C, but still any fruit intake will help. Remember, the British Navy; even hundreds of years ago, they kept limes onboard their ships to prevent scurvy -- this is why British sailors came to be labeled limeys by their "betters".

    Water is a different topic, but we all know that without hydration you are a gonner. Must have water filters and boiling mechanisms.

    In a SHTF situation, we need FAR less than that which we normally take in calorie-wise. However there will be plenty of work that needs to be done post-SHTF, so one should always store what they can store. We preppers have gardens for continual input of fresh veggies. We study which plants we can eat (God only knows how much poke weed I've ingested and apparently I'm still alive). And we keep firearms to protect our gardens from thieves and keep them to forage. Historically, armies on the march always had shotguns, not for combat, but to forage game. We don't call'em "fowling pieces" for nuthin'.


    "Four and twenty blackbirds, blackbird pie."

    Groundhog is greasy. Possum is said to be "very greasy"; never et it, but will if I have to. Shot a nasty possum in my basement -- didn't eat it.
    .
     
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  7. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    As I was trying to read Rebeca's post on this thread earlier today , my ten year old granddaughter came running into my house . My daughter , her mom she says has passed out . Some of you guys might remember when last winter I had to grab my bloodhound and go searching for my daughter as I knew she had passed out somewhere in the woods blood trailing a deer by herself on a cold night .. - This time I found her passed out where she was repairing a fishing boat seat . Barely could she whisper a word move a arm or leg . Like the first time I thought to grab a coconut drink . I had to manually open her mouth and pour a little at a time down her throat . In a few minutes she had gained adequate strength to hold the can herself . She has multiple nursing license that covers every state in the United States . She took her own pulse when partially recovered and said her pulse was slow but steady . She has recovered . She jokingly said " if heaven is not a lot like dixie I had just as soon not go " . I don't know what is in the coconut drink that brings her back from the brink of death . I do know it has a lot of potassium and sugar . Doctors have run test and claim she has a iron problem but I am skeptical of their diagnoses . The coconut drink has zero iron .
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Sorry for your daughters situation. pass on the doctors and continue with your diagnosis. Get her on some high potassium vitamins. Get a glucose meter and monitor her blood. The two main ingredients, potassium and sugar in the coconut mix are our pointers.
     
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  9. Rebecca

    Rebecca Master Survivalist
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    Poltiregist, sorry to read its happened to her again but glad to hear you have something that helps your daughter. I hope the doctors can find out what's really wrong soon. Interesting to read about the the coconut drink helping so much.
     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    She needs second and third opinions. The first conditions that pop into my mind are diabetes and epilepsy.

    Does she take any form of diabetic medication? Does she take insulin? Could it be that she hasn't told you about her diabetes? If she is having episodes of low blood sugar levels, then she needs to have a glucagon kit and tell others where she keeps her glucagon kit.

    Some folk have epilepsy, but at a very, very low level. The episodes may only happen a couple of times a year. She MUST NOT have such an episode while driving a vehicle!

    She could be having episodes of cardiac arrhythmia. I can't even begin to name all of the potential heart-rhythm screw-ups that can cause cardiac syncope. Has she been sent to see a cardiologist?

    She must learn the source of these episodes of unconsciousness. Many physicians are simply NOT up to the task. Find a physicians group that are competent. This must not be allowed to go on.
    .
     
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  11. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    Poltiregist, Sorry to hear your daughter is sick again. I know that's hard to deal with. Do you know what her A1C is? My aunt also had diabetes and would have her sugar drop rapidly and pass out and only a sugar would bring her back. I also have diabetes but control it mostly with diet and some oral meds. What she is doing doesn't sound like potassium deficiency. It does actually sound like hyponatremia (low sodium) which can cause blackouts, especially when exerting yourself, sweating and losing sodium. Coconut water and drinks are actually high in sodium (usually 10% of USDA daily recommended) so maybe a suggestion to look at. Does she eat salt on much? My wife was anemic and had very low iron and always craved salt. Just a suggestion.

    Dale
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Yep, could be Addison's disease. Aldosterone levels could be all messed-up. Great that you bring up this condition. Her current physicians are just not putting sufficient effort into diagnosing her condition. It is very frustrating reading about her not getting the medical attention she requires. Time to dump these doc.s and find some medical competency.
       
      Old Geezer, Jun 25, 2020
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I wrote down some of you guys guesses at the problem and will give my notes to my daughter .
     
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  13. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    I just finished reading an article in " The Organic Prepper " on todays plight in Venezuela narrating the life of a supposedly prepper . The interest I have in such articles is due to my belief this may be the future of other countries including my on country the U.S. . It depicts what it is like to grow a garden . Thieves come at night to steal their labors of growing a garden , chickens and whatever else they can carry off , leaving their victim to starve . A thought for those that plan to grow a garden or raise survival critters near other people . As things collapse around the globe , there may be only one chance to get a survival plan right . Guarding your resources around the clock will be required if the global collapse continues . Just something some might want to ponder .
     
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  14. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Legendary Survivalist
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    Sorry to hear about your daughter, Poltiregist. That is a scary situation. I hope she finds the correct diagnosis. One other condition you might have her check is Crohn's Disease. My niece went through years of ill health and chronically low iron before she was diagnosed. Just a thought. We will keep her in our prayers. I hope she finds an answer.
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    dont worry overduly about scavengers, unless your in a big city.
     
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  16. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist,

    Well wishes re daughter.

    The "global collapse" will not be global. Here, less the arrangements to close down some areas, are still better than decent.

    The US adjustments will be nasty but not much is new under the sun.
     
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  17. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    There is a guy.........(I'll not mention any names BUT)......he has for many decades been telling people, "Get far-far-far-far-far from other humans to enhance one's survival probability".
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    sounds like my sort of person!!
     
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Hope it's true where you live.

    Here in the USA, even in rural areas, we have some really mean people.

    The folk I've had to back off, me holding the firearm, were lily-white rednecks. I have stacks of stories concerning rural trash people, mean ones; not just thieves, killers.
     
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  20. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    The " Organic Prepper "Article that got this started would be worthy of posting a link to Titled "Venezuela 7 years after the collapse ". " I don't know how " . I can say the thieves raiding gardens in Venezuela were raiding in a rural area and was reportedly traveling many miles to do so . Perhaps some of our members live amongst a better class of people than the preppers in Venezuela .
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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  22. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    food as a weapon, huh go figure, I wonder if that's why the UN turned their backs on Rhodesia, the bread basket of Africa.
     
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  23. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    NOPE! I believe they are world wide these days. When Sourdough, in the middle of no where Alaska has to worry, EVERYONE better worry and have a plan. Then have a backup.

    Dale
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    raiders are only a problem when there is still fuel available, in a post SHTF world this is unlikely to be the case.
    I dont know about anywhere else but in Britain most people dont walk 100 yards from their cars and we have an obesity crisis, most cant even WADDLE that far!
    and as for stealing FOOD most of the population live on take-aways and ready meals, do you think they will be able to recognise a plant as food?? (and more than likely have nothing to cook it on either).
     
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  25. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Here in the U.S. we have overweight people but the mass majority are quite capable of walking for miles . There may be some people here so ignorant that they wouldn't realize a garden equals food and would not search for that food . As for as fuel in some crises that could occur, fuel indeed would be taken off the table . All my preparations are done based on the theory of there being no fuel available forever . However the crises that is already HERE will leave fuel available to marauders to travel great distances . Speculating what the crises may be , has become not speculation anymore .How bad the crises will get and how long the crises will last is the bigger question at this point .
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    once the refineries shut down the only fuel will be whats in the system and that will be limited to say the least.
    people in the UK drive on EMPTY only filling up when the fuel warning light comes on-I know that for a fact. as a prepper I always top up my tank when the fuel needle gets to half, sometimes before.
    I am not a believer in the "golden horde" theory so beloved of American fiction writers, not in Britain anyway.
     
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  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Obesity is now seen as some sort of personality flaw but in many cases, it is a valuable survival gift that is now a problem. People like me that had ancestors that lived in places where famine and starvation were common developed metabolisms that were MASSIVELY efficient. When there was food, they ate and put on fat in a hurry. They were big people and carried a lot of weight when food was available.

    When food was short they could go weeks on end without eating hardly anything with little loss of strength and then survived on as little as 500 calories a day until the next time food was abundant. I have gone without food twice for 14 days, once for 45 days and in the last month, I didn't eat for about 21 days. For two years I ate one meal every OTHER day. That was the only way that I could lose weight. I lived on 1000 calories for 6 months and gained 2 pounds.

    I have done a lot of research on what people NEED to survive and it isn't nearly what you think. Understand, primitive people lived hand to mouth. When fruits and grains were ripe or when they made a good kill they ate as much as they could and fattened up but in the winters there was very little to eat and they did fine. For one thing, your body had two modes of operation. One is carb-based and the other is more fat/protean-based.

    In the spring when the fruits are available we ate those in mass and your body worked hard making fat and storing it. If you don't eat meat you have a hard time accessing that fat so it is stored until you need it when no carbs are available. In the winters there are no ripe fruits or grains. We were evolved to deal with this and our metabolism changed from a fat-storing to a fat-burning. One of the triggers for this was as we became almost pure meat-eaters in the winter month a substance in meat called El Carnitine allows us to pull the fat through cell walls and allows us to use it as fuel.

    This is how we evolved to live. Once you understand it and allow your body to shift you become hard to starve to death. People can live for about 6 months on 400 calories a day. This was necessary in many places that had long hungry winters with very little to eat.

    That fat boy that you are laughing at...if he doesn't eat for 2 weeks he will still be going strong while the slim and fit guy will be down and out. The one survival tool you will want is some reasonable amount of body fat. That is why women have better survival odds in times of starvation than men. Of those that starved to death in the Donner party, 25 were men but only 9 were women. Look up the story of the Donner party and Donner Pass. Fat is the ultimate survival tool in hard times. You can have some fat and still be in great physical condition.
     
    1. TMT Tactical
      Well, I think I am pretty well set for the lean times. LOL
       
      TMT Tactical, Jun 28, 2020
  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    having some fat on us is one thing but obese people have too much of it, I dont think we can compare obese people with the way our ancient ancestors lived, obese people cannot walk very far and are that way because they live on a rubbish diet of take-aways and ready meals, they get very little exercise apart from waddling down to the nearest MacDonalds or KFC. a lot of take-aways now home deliver so they dont even have to do that anymore.
    being obese will lead to strain on the internal organs including the heart, this will lead to diabetes, breathing problems, heart attacks and strokes, gall bladder problems, depression and some cancers.
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    Rhodesia-Now Zimbabwe, is no longer the bread basket of Africa, it is now a BASKET CASE.
     
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  30. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    Very good !

    Some of the best writing is here at MSF.COM

    Don't forget that Ukraine was once known as the "Breadbasket of Europe". A few political changes and the place got identified with starvation.
     
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  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    I didnt know that about Ukraine.
     
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  32. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Legendary Survivalist
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    Venezuela should be the poster child for what will happen to you when you let Socialists take over. It is a tragic story. One of the wealthiest countries in South America that is still swimming in oil has been relegated to a starving third world country. The elite are lining their pockets, and the poor are starving eating pigeons.

    Why the sheeple in this country do not recognize this is a mystery. Of course, the sheeple in this country couldn't even find Venezuela on a map much less know what is happening there.
     
  33. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Another avenue to this food topic . I read where Native Americans before the White Man screwed everything up , would send out runners to cover great distances . The food source for these runners was dried corn . They would swallow a little corn and drink some water and the corn would swell up in their stomachs and they would continue their run for days . Now I may be old but I am not so old that I can swear there is any truth in this . If that is so a box of grits " ground and dried corn " in a get home bag would be a great item to have in it . I am already bugged in so that would have no effect on me but perhaps would someone in our group caught hundreds of miles away working on powerlines trying to reach our survival retreat . Any input on this ?
     
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  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    For whatever reason, I got to reading about scurvy today. Something at work triggered me to read about diseases related to poor nutrition. Have totally forgotten why. I sent this link from work to my home; now I'm going to put it on this post. I knew that scurvy was the bane of seafarers, but I did not even begin to understand the mind-numbing gravity of it. Scurvy was total HELL back in the days of the tall masts and distant journeys. It wasn't just bad, it was protracted torture, then horrid death.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that ALL preppers MUST study the disease of scurvy. Without proper nutrition, we not only lose our energies, we develop hideous diseases. In our survival plans, we must never forget what has befallen people who went without proper nutrition for too long of a period of time.

    Here's some scary stuff, boys and girls:

    "The Age of Scurvy"

    https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/the-age-of-scurvy

    "Scurvy killed more than two million sailors between the time of Columbus’s transatlantic voyage and the rise of steam engines in the mid-19th century. The problem was so common that shipowners and governments assumed a 50% death rate from scurvy for their sailors on any major voyage. According to historian Stephen Bown scurvy was responsible for more deaths at sea than storms, shipwrecks, combat, and all other diseases combined. In fact, scurvy was so devastating that the search for a cure became what Bown describes as 'a vital factor determining the destiny of nations.'”

    The highlights are mine. I found these facts near unbelievable, staggering. Holy God have mercy on the souls of those who succumbed to this horror! Recompense them for having served in hell while on Earth.

    ---------------------
    What to do? I am profoundly interested in the inputs of others as to how to preserve fruits.

    Me, I love canned pineapple. There are all manner of canned fruits out there with lengthy shelf-lives.

    My grandmother canned peaches. I love peaches also, but peaches do not have as much nutrition as other fruits. Jams and jellies may be low in vitamins, however they are full of flavonoids which are dynamite anti-oxidants.

    https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/nutrition/canned-pineapple,140910/

    https://stilltasty.com/Fooditems/index/17920

    Peaches impart mighty flavor and can knock the edge off moonshine. I once drank some pear moonshine. The pear had turned into some hideous brownish blob at the bottom of that Mason jar. I looked askance at my supposed friend and he said, "It's great, try it!" Reluctantly, I did. Holy Father on high was that ever smooooooooth. Here's the deal, there ain't no such thing as smooth moonshine ... yet this was. There are secrets in the realm of moonshining that, on the rare occasion of its maker's genius, can turn that liver-killing liquid into that which can be described as "sublime".

    I put back some high-proof whiskey into which I did my best to infuse blueberries, fresh blueberries. I failed. The flavor just was not up to what it should have been. I still have some on the shelf. A righteous man would deem it only as "emergency whiskey". Too much of that and a man will go to speaking in tongues. And it shall not be the Spirit of the Lord causing this effusion, oh no! It will be the result of neuronal death en masse.
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    Preppers need/must control their food supply post SHTF or someone else will control it instead!! thats a simple sheeple mistake.
     
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  36. Rebecca

    Rebecca Master Survivalist
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    If we are looking at preserving in general then canning, alcohol and dehydration come to mind for fruit.

    If we are talking about preservation with the goal of using the fruit to help with nutritional deficiencies leading to things like scurvy then I believe dehydration is the way to go. Canning, which obviously involves a lot of heat, can remove up to half of the vitamin C a fruit originally contained. However dehydration removes only the moisture without removing the vitamins.

    For myself personally in terms of vitamin C in particular, the plan is pine needles and spruce tips. Fruit will be canned or dehydrated depending on space, desired product like jams or jellies or wine. Some berries can be grown just to provide that early summer boost after a long winter during which the variety of available foods may have become restricted.

    You bring up a very good point in that the serious prepper should know which foods will provide which essential nutrients in order to avoid some nasty diseases.
     
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  37. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    A challenge for our members that plan to live off the wild stuff they find within walking distance of their Alamo . If you don't have a solid plan in place but plan to live off roots , bugs or your neighbors livestock , try it for a week and let us know how you fared . It is now spring or summer so it should be optimal time to put your plan to the test . Personally I raise livestock for eggs , milk and have a ready supply of meat right outside my door . Some of our members seem to have a solid plan while others seem to have no plan at all but to live off someone else's resources or to grub around in the dirt like a armadillo . --- Thinking a neighborhood will somehow pull together and food will appear is simply in my opinion a survival plan that would hold only a matter of weeks but not for years . --- We can already see where the planet is heading since the November 2020 U.S. Political Coup . A Venezuela type existence is becoming our expected future . This isn't something that will last a few weeks and get better . This is the existence our kids , grandkids and great grandkids can expect . I wouldn't want to die knowing I didn't properly prepare for my descendance to live like humans but instead spent my money living the good life . Again without going into your stored food , try living off the land for a week . If one of our members suddenly disappears , I will assume they got shot trying to steal food . --- For those that are betting their lives that they can grow a garden to survive on . Try doing it this year without going to a store to subsidize your food with purchased goods , including fertilizer for that garden . It will be much easier now to grow that garden without starving people trying to raid it . The challenge , " if you survive " will save you a lot of money from not going to any stores . A real garden test would have to include also keeping and storing that food for 12 months using only what you have on hand for storing food . So a garden test would need to be a 12 month test . Even cheating and using electricity or propane for processing the food for storage , I would still find interesting . ----- Honestly I don't really expect anyone to take up the challenge as they would likely have a mad spouse and angry kids to deal with but presented this to provoke a response .
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  38. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    While I am WAY behind the prepper curve, I do have plans to hopefully do a little catching up. Next year I will have raised bed gardens. Rain water harvesting system and I am already scouting out animal trails and fishing locations, within walking distance. I plan to trap fish, no pole fishing. I have a PCP pellet rifle, good out to 50 yards for quiet small game hunting. A suppressed 22lr bolt action rifle for small game hunting at longer distances. Not being an idiot, I don't plan to raid my neighbors or rustle farm animals. I do stock food and know I will / must supplement that supply by other means. Growing produce, canning and hunting / fishing is all included in my survival plan. Raising small meat animals is also a possibility, if it starts to hit the fan. Is that enough, no but it is a start.
     
  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Societal Collapse Survivalist. Staff Member
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    post SHTF we all have to be self sufficient and self reliant, there will be no 7th Cavalry come charging over the hill bugles blaring to our rescue, people will have to succeed or fail on their own efforts, something that the masses fail to understand, its all very well relying on the supply chain for ones every need but post SHTF that supply chain will not exist.
     
  40. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Forget the garden, I swear we have so many weeds growing in our yard now that if it hits the fan all I'll have to do is stop mowing and we might just be able to stay stocked with greens just from the dock weeds, wild onions, and dandelions. Poke weed, its everydangwhere. Dried rice and beans, we've put back cases of that, easy to do. Prepping just isn't god-awful complex. Me, I'm a guy, I like canned food just fine. Have a pantry and rotate your stock -- NOT rocket-science, kids. Water filters, there's every variety and they are not hard to find -- buy a few now if you've not done so already. Where I live, there's all manner of outdoors/camping/hunting shops, but if you don't have access, order online.

    https://www.thespruceeats.com/everything-to-know-dock-rumex-species-3984477

    https://www.healthygreensavvy.com/can-you-eat-dandelions-health-benefits-dandelion/

    https://honest-food.net/how-to-harvest-wild-onions/

    Dandelion nutrition

    https://www.nutrition-and-you.com/dandelion-herb.html

    100g = 3.5 oz

    100 g of dandelion greens contain these daily nutritional percentages:

    upload_2021-6-14_12-29-2.png These greens will keep you healthy.
     
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  41. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  42. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  43. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I just went online to look for illustrated books on foraging for edible wild plants and I found bunches of books. I ordered a couple because I don't have a reference for my wife and something to show/teach the grandkids. Too, I'm sure I'll find some things that I don't know about. One must continually learn.

    Me, I've been out foraging with my maternal grandmother a many a'time. I know a bunch of stuff that I don't really know that I know. Driving along a gravel road, I look at weeds and see their usages -- I don't see them as just weeds. And, I think wild flowers are prettier than cultivated flowers, I just do. Nature is life to me, because in my youth I went hunting and foraging with the old-timers (people born before 1910, my dad's parents were born before 1900 and I loved them so much; they oozed wisdom).

    So, if you want an education on wild edibles, there are books and videos galore. Avail yourself thereof. Have these books in your survival library. Buy the books with illustrations. One book I bought said that the author took photographs of the plants in the various stages of growth -- this is very important. Plants like pokeweed can ONLY be eaten when harvested very young. Many plants are like this. Or in the case of fruits, you wish only to harvest when mature.
    .
     
  44. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    In the event of a total colapse there will be more to eat around here than there will be people. This is cattle country, we have wild hogs that are all over the place, Lots of people around me have goats, A river full of fish is a 14 mile away and there are probably 20 stocked ponds within a mile of me. Then you have the deer and dogs. When the people are thinned out the dogs will have to be thinned out and they are going to offer a good meat supply. Gardens are more common around here than lawns.

    When it comes to cattle you need a lot of people. You kill a calf, eat all you can for a few days while you smoke and cure the rest. In the winter months sometimes you might be able to keep it "fresh" for a week or two but that is about it. we don't have much of a winter here. That is both good and tough. The bad is that meat spoils fast and has to be put up or you lose it. The good is that your garden will produce 10 months out od the year and sometimes all 12 months. We have a lot of winters with only one or two light freezes and some with no freezes so your fall garden rolls over into becoming your spring and summer garden.

    I have a full set of manual butcher tools and can butcher almost anything. I will do my best to teach the many skills that I have to any that I can before I die. I figure that I might make 6 months to a year... Getting old sucked but modern medicine has kept me alive and going a lot longer than I ever expected.
     
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  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Field dressing a pig

    This is the only video I could find that doesn't make you sign-in to view. Apparently dressing-out game is for adults only. Youtube and all the social media vomit sites think that it is OK for kids to learn about sodomy and all manner of other sexual perversions, but god-forbid that they learn about taking and eating game animals.



    Found a Gordan Ramsay video, maybe he'll have some tips on spices and such.

     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  46. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    I love greens, love fruit but how are you storing fat to add to your diet? I now store Olive oil and butter Ghee (Clarified butter, 15+ year shelf life).
     
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  47. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Spam is mainly animal fat. I do NOT buy the low-fat cans of Spam. I buy bacon-flavored Spam. My arteries may not love Spam, but I sure as hell do. Canola oil lasts for a year to 1.5 years. One needs fat to absorb fat-soluble vitamins such as A, D, and E. Pour some grease on your salad. It's called "killing lettuce" or whatever greens. Greasy food is life to the poor.

    Lard goes rancid.
     
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  48. Rebecca

    Rebecca Master Survivalist
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    It does, but if you can lard and tallow so they seal up properly they can last for decades. While I wouldn't recommend it, I have heard of people opening jars of tallow or lard canned by their grandparents, and finding the contents just fine.

    The best solution other than what you are already storing, (and maybe add coconut oil to that although it does have a shorter shelf life.) Is to work out a source available post collapse. Nut trees, grow sunflowers, fat from animals you have raised or hunted. I'm sure there are other options I'm just not thinking of right now.
     
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  49. wally

    wally Master Survivalist
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    people born before 1920 are SO COOL...i used to hang out with quite a few of them back in the 70's...i loved doing that so much to learn but little time left to squeeze it all in. all gone now though along with a butt load of info about life.
     
  50. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    Good morning from Snowdonia, drove up yesterday for some hill walking and to test my mobile ham radio setup. Parked the RV down a track near here https://www.alltrails.com/trail/wales/conwy/llyn-elsi beautiful area, anyway back on track.

    The French would store the confit duck in large stone pots and the duck would last months. A more modern method here:

     
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