Food

Discussion in 'Finding, Identifying, and Preparing Food' started by Sourdough, Sep 3, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    b2bf19d47baca44093ab9df16e804e95.jpeg Food is a weapon. Nations weaponize food against nations, governments use it against dissenters, invaders use it against holdouts. Here are examples from the recent past.

    Sherman's 1864 March to the Sea in Georgia was a scorched earth campaign. Horses, mules, cattle and millions of pounds of fodder were confiscated. Farms were stripped and put to the torch. The novel and movie Gone With The Wind was set in this time.

    The British naval blockade of Germany from 1914 to 1919 led to widespread starvation. The most reliable account puts the death toll at 424,000. The unpayable war reparations levied on Germany after the war led to more hunger during the Weimar era.

    Stalin's confiscation of food and blockade of Ukraine in 1932-1933, for resisting collectivization of farms, resulted in death by starvation of about five million people.

    Nazi Germany's "Hunger Plan" of 1941 to divert food to Germany from Soviet countries was to allow only a small remnant of the population to survive, as slave labor. As it was, huge numbers of conquered peoples perished from hunger, including one rarely cited, the Netherlands.

    For the first three years of the war World War II, German U-boats successfully attacked shipping bound for Britain. While they didn't manage to close the shipping lanes as completely as did the Royal Navy in the previous war, the losses forced drastic cuts to already severe food rationing

    Operation Starvation, begun by the US in the waning days of World War II, used advanced sea mines to all but destroy what remained of Japan's merchant fleet. Some experts claim it could have won the war had it begun earlier.

    None of these famines were from natural causes—drought, insect infestation or plant disease and the like. But have a care, weaponized hunger isn't "instead" of natural causes, it's in addition to natural causes. Notice the accelerating ramp up of the price for pork in China due to the epidemic of "pig ebola". They're drawing down reserves at present, when those are gone there is no obvious alternative source for the quantity needed. And the knock-on effects for substitutes is under way, just as their import tariffs take full effect.

    The food supply is a target for any number of disasters. Most times it evades a hit altogether, sometimes it's merely wounded, occasionally it takes a ruinous blow. There are no guarantees. Disruptions often can't be foreseen well enough to do much good. Example: poor growing weather in the UK and the desperate demands of a hungry Europe caused food rationing from 1945 to 1948 even more severe than it was in the war years. The successful survivalist will have a secure source of food with sufficient reserves for unforeseen adversities.

    Extracted from the current issue of the wonderful, "WOOD PILE REPORT"
    http://www.woodpilereport.com/html/index-593.htm
     
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Climate change is causing crop failures in Australia, live stock are being sold off before they starve to death. I can see some farmers going out backwards & some will be suicideing. How long before food shortages I wonder!
    Keith.
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    The three legged stool - shelter , food and water . On the food leg I will highly recommend all prepper / survivalist to have a hand operated grain grinder . This opens up a lot of food potential . Things can be ground up and boiled . Sacked corn at the feed store sells for about seven dollars for a fifty pound bag . It needs no refrigeration and will keep for months , years perhaps if properly stored for long term . When boiled it will swell up around five times its dried kernel form " estimated " . For those that have a limited food availability such as those planning to shelter in an high populated area this cheap food source could be crucial . A grinder will cost around thirty dollars on Amazon . Don't order one coming out of China because it " may never arrive " and things on the political front are crumbling very fast .
     
  5. Rebecca

    Rebecca Expert Member
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    This topic and the recent one on ways of storing food reminded me of something I wanted to bring notice to. This is not for all our experienced members whom I am sure have long since worked out how much food they require to survive 6 months, a year or so on. This is more for the new preppers to think on.

    How much food is really needed per person per day?

    Judging by the posts I see on Facebook survival groups it is something not thought through properly. I see people boasting about the 10 or 20 kgs they have put away in long term storage. This is to get them and their family through TEOTWAWKI.

    Please don't think I am belittling anyone's efforts. Any amount of food is better than none. I just want the newbies to stop and think about the amount really needed.

    The average person in north America eats on average 4 pounds of food per day

    https://www.stack.com/a/forget-calories-the-weight-of-your-food-is-what-really-matters

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/article/38623-pounds-of-food-united-states-calories/amp

    https://www.precisionnutrition.com/what-are-your-4-lbs

    I'm not getting in calorie content etc. But to feel "full" and not hungry you will need 3 to 5 pounds of food per day. We all know survival on much less is possible. You just won't be happy.

    So working on 4 pounds per day that 20kgs boasted about is 11 days food for 1 person. Just over 5 days for a couple. And barely worth mentioning for a family.

    To quote one of my favorite YouTube prepper channels - "store food to the rafters"
     
  6. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I am going to have an input here, but only a very minor one. I have not given study to this topic. Have I read about caloric intake as it relates to "just getting by" / not dying? Yes, but I committed none of it to memory.

    First, I would have y'all remember the accounts of prisoner of war camps where the prisoners were provided insufficient food. A friend of mine's dad survived over two (maybe 3yr?) years in the Moosburg (Stalag Luft 7a) POW camp. Messed him up in the head. Every time he ate, he would scarf-down the food as if it were his last meal. Couldn't stop himself, burned-in-the-brain.

    I myself split "what I need" into two categories; 1) essential nutrition, 2) carbs/bulk (energy)

    Canned meats have protein and no shortage of fat. Meat is nutritious. Therefore one's mind is taken to cans of Spam, potted meat, sardines/kippered-herring. This stuff lasts for years. And I like kippers. They now have bacon-flavored Spam -- there is a God.

    As to bulk, you've got your classic dried foods, rice, beans, & noodles = sealable glass Mason or Ball jars and O2 absorbers to toss in.

    Throw-ins: sugar, lard for frying, spices, salt, powdered drink for the kids (they'll not hydrate sufficiently if you do not add some flavor to their drinks), powdered milk for the kids.

    Long shelf-life vitamins wouldn't hurt. The B-group of vitamins you need for the body's use of starches, plus your nervous system needs them. Beans and meat provide B-vits, but storage depletes the B group. Dried fruit depletes vit.C, but still any fruit intake will help. Remember, the British Navy; even hundreds of years ago, they kept limes onboard their ships to prevent scurvy -- this is why British sailors came to be labeled limeys by their "betters".

    Water is a different topic, but we all know that without hydration you are a gonner. Must have water filters and boiling mechanisms.

    In a SHTF situation, we need FAR less than that which we normally take in calorie-wise. However there will be plenty of work that needs to be done post-SHTF, so one should always store what they can store. We preppers have gardens for continual input of fresh veggies. We study which plants we can eat (God only knows how much poke weed I've ingested and apparently I'm still alive). And we keep firearms to protect our gardens from thieves and keep them to forage. Historically, armies on the march always had shotguns, not for combat, but to forage game. We don't call'em "fowling pieces" for nuthin'.


    "Four and twenty blackbirds, blackbird pie."

    Groundhog is greasy. Possum is said to be "very greasy"; never et it, but will if I have to. Shot a nasty possum in my basement -- didn't eat it.
    .
     
  7. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    As I was trying to read Rebeca's post on this thread earlier today , my ten year old granddaughter came running into my house . My daughter , her mom she says has passed out . Some of you guys might remember when last winter I had to grab my bloodhound and go searching for my daughter as I knew she had passed out somewhere in the woods blood trailing a deer by herself on a cold night .. - This time I found her passed out where she was repairing a fishing boat seat . Barely could she whisper a word move a arm or leg . Like the first time I thought to grab a coconut drink . I had to manually open her mouth and pour a little at a time down her throat . In a few minutes she had gained adequate strength to hold the can herself . She has multiple nursing license that covers every state in the United States . She took her own pulse when partially recovered and said her pulse was slow but steady . She has recovered . She jokingly said " if heaven is not a lot like dixie I had just as soon not go " . I don't know what is in the coconut drink that brings her back from the brink of death . I do know it has a lot of potassium and sugar . Doctors have run test and claim she has a iron problem but I am skeptical of their diagnoses . The coconut drink has zero iron .
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Sorry for your daughters situation. pass on the doctors and continue with your diagnosis. Get her on some high potassium vitamins. Get a glucose meter and monitor her blood. The two main ingredients, potassium and sugar in the coconut mix are our pointers.
     
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  9. Rebecca

    Rebecca Expert Member
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    Poltiregist, sorry to read its happened to her again but glad to hear you have something that helps your daughter. I hope the doctors can find out what's really wrong soon. Interesting to read about the the coconut drink helping so much.
     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    She needs second and third opinions. The first conditions that pop into my mind are diabetes and epilepsy.

    Does she take any form of diabetic medication? Does she take insulin? Could it be that she hasn't told you about her diabetes? If she is having episodes of low blood sugar levels, then she needs to have a glucagon kit and tell others where she keeps her glucagon kit.

    Some folk have epilepsy, but at a very, very low level. The episodes may only happen a couple of times a year. She MUST NOT have such an episode while driving a vehicle!

    She could be having episodes of cardiac arrhythmia. I can't even begin to name all of the potential heart-rhythm screw-ups that can cause cardiac syncope. Has she been sent to see a cardiologist?

    She must learn the source of these episodes of unconsciousness. Many physicians are simply NOT up to the task. Find a physicians group that are competent. This must not be allowed to go on.
    .
     
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  11. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Poltiregist, Sorry to hear your daughter is sick again. I know that's hard to deal with. Do you know what her A1C is? My aunt also had diabetes and would have her sugar drop rapidly and pass out and only a sugar would bring her back. I also have diabetes but control it mostly with diet and some oral meds. What she is doing doesn't sound like potassium deficiency. It does actually sound like hyponatremia (low sodium) which can cause blackouts, especially when exerting yourself, sweating and losing sodium. Coconut water and drinks are actually high in sodium (usually 10% of USDA daily recommended) so maybe a suggestion to look at. Does she eat salt on much? My wife was anemic and had very low iron and always craved salt. Just a suggestion.

    Dale
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Yep, could be Addison's disease. Aldosterone levels could be all messed-up. Great that you bring up this condition. Her current physicians are just not putting sufficient effort into diagnosing her condition. It is very frustrating reading about her not getting the medical attention she requires. Time to dump these doc.s and find some medical competency.
       
      Old Geezer, Jun 25, 2020
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  12. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I wrote down some of you guys guesses at the problem and will give my notes to my daughter .
     
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  13. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I just finished reading an article in " The Organic Prepper " on todays plight in Venezuela narrating the life of a supposedly prepper . The interest I have in such articles is due to my belief this may be the future of other countries including my on country the U.S. . It depicts what it is like to grow a garden . Thieves come at night to steal their labors of growing a garden , chickens and whatever else they can carry off , leaving their victim to starve . A thought for those that plan to grow a garden or raise survival critters near other people . As things collapse around the globe , there may be only one chance to get a survival plan right . Guarding your resources around the clock will be required if the global collapse continues . Just something some might want to ponder .
     
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  14. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Sorry to hear about your daughter, Poltiregist. That is a scary situation. I hope she finds the correct diagnosis. One other condition you might have her check is Crohn's Disease. My niece went through years of ill health and chronically low iron before she was diagnosed. Just a thought. We will keep her in our prayers. I hope she finds an answer.
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    dont worry overduly about scavengers, unless your in a big city.
     
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  16. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist,

    Well wishes re daughter.

    The "global collapse" will not be global. Here, less the arrangements to close down some areas, are still better than decent.

    The US adjustments will be nasty but not much is new under the sun.
     
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  17. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    There is a guy.........(I'll not mention any names BUT)......he has for many decades been telling people, "Get far-far-far-far-far from other humans to enhance one's survival probability".
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    sounds like my sort of person!!
     
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Hope it's true where you live.

    Here in the USA, even in rural areas, we have some really mean people.

    The folk I've had to back off, me holding the firearm, were lily-white rednecks. I have stacks of stories concerning rural trash people, mean ones; not just thieves, killers.
     
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  20. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    The " Organic Prepper "Article that got this started would be worthy of posting a link to Titled "Venezuela 7 years after the collapse ". " I don't know how " . I can say the thieves raiding gardens in Venezuela were raiding in a rural area and was reportedly traveling many miles to do so . Perhaps some of our members live amongst a better class of people than the preppers in Venezuela .
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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  22. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    food as a weapon, huh go figure, I wonder if that's why the UN turned their backs on Rhodesia, the bread basket of Africa.
     
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  23. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    NOPE! I believe they are world wide these days. When Sourdough, in the middle of no where Alaska has to worry, EVERYONE better worry and have a plan. Then have a backup.

    Dale
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    raiders are only a problem when there is still fuel available, in a post SHTF world this is unlikely to be the case.
    I dont know about anywhere else but in Britain most people dont walk 100 yards from their cars and we have an obesity crisis, most cant even WADDLE that far!
    and as for stealing FOOD most of the population live on take-aways and ready meals, do you think they will be able to recognise a plant as food?? (and more than likely have nothing to cook it on either).
     
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  25. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Here in the U.S. we have overweight people but the mass majority are quite capable of walking for miles . There may be some people here so ignorant that they wouldn't realize a garden equals food and would not search for that food . As for as fuel in some crises that could occur, fuel indeed would be taken off the table . All my preparations are done based on the theory of there being no fuel available forever . However the crises that is already HERE will leave fuel available to marauders to travel great distances . Speculating what the crises may be , has become not speculation anymore .How bad the crises will get and how long the crises will last is the bigger question at this point .
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    once the refineries shut down the only fuel will be whats in the system and that will be limited to say the least.
    people in the UK drive on EMPTY only filling up when the fuel warning light comes on-I know that for a fact. as a prepper I always top up my tank when the fuel needle gets to half, sometimes before.
    I am not a believer in the "golden horde" theory so beloved of American fiction writers, not in Britain anyway.
     
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  27. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Obesity is now seen as some sort of personality flaw but in many cases, it is a valuable survival gift that is now a problem. People like me that had ancestors that lived in places where famine and starvation were common developed metabolisms that were MASSIVELY efficient. When there was food, they ate and put on fat in a hurry. They were big people and carried a lot of weight when food was available.

    When food was short they could go weeks on end without eating hardly anything with little loss of strength and then survived on as little as 500 calories a day until the next time food was abundant. I have gone without food twice for 14 days, once for 45 days and in the last month, I didn't eat for about 21 days. For two years I ate one meal every OTHER day. That was the only way that I could lose weight. I lived on 1000 calories for 6 months and gained 2 pounds.

    I have done a lot of research on what people NEED to survive and it isn't nearly what you think. Understand, primitive people lived hand to mouth. When fruits and grains were ripe or when they made a good kill they ate as much as they could and fattened up but in the winters there was very little to eat and they did fine. For one thing, your body had two modes of operation. One is carb-based and the other is more fat/protean-based.

    In the spring when the fruits are available we ate those in mass and your body worked hard making fat and storing it. If you don't eat meat you have a hard time accessing that fat so it is stored until you need it when no carbs are available. In the winters there are no ripe fruits or grains. We were evolved to deal with this and our metabolism changed from a fat-storing to a fat-burning. One of the triggers for this was as we became almost pure meat-eaters in the winter month a substance in meat called El Carnitine allows us to pull the fat through cell walls and allows us to use it as fuel.

    This is how we evolved to live. Once you understand it and allow your body to shift you become hard to starve to death. People can live for about 6 months on 400 calories a day. This was necessary in many places that had long hungry winters with very little to eat.

    That fat boy that you are laughing at...if he doesn't eat for 2 weeks he will still be going strong while the slim and fit guy will be down and out. The one survival tool you will want is some reasonable amount of body fat. That is why women have better survival odds in times of starvation than men. Of those that starved to death in the Donner party, 25 were men but only 9 were women. Look up the story of the Donner party and Donner Pass. Fat is the ultimate survival tool in hard times. You can have some fat and still be in great physical condition.
     
    1. TMT Tactical
      Well, I think I am pretty well set for the lean times. LOL
       
      TMT Tactical, Jun 28, 2020
  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    having some fat on us is one thing but obese people have too much of it, I dont think we can compare obese people with the way our ancient ancestors lived, obese people cannot walk very far and are that way because they live on a rubbish diet of take-aways and ready meals, they get very little exercise apart from waddling down to the nearest MacDonalds or KFC. a lot of take-aways now home deliver so they dont even have to do that anymore.
    being obese will lead to strain on the internal organs including the heart, this will lead to diabetes, breathing problems, heart attacks and strokes, gall bladder problems, depression and some cancers.
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    Rhodesia-Now Zimbabwe, is no longer the bread basket of Africa, it is now a BASKET CASE.
     
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  30. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lonewolf,

    Very good !

    Some of the best writing is here at MSF.COM

    Don't forget that Ukraine was once known as the "Breadbasket of Europe". A few political changes and the place got identified with starvation.
     
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  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I didnt know that about Ukraine.
     
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  32. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Venezuela should be the poster child for what will happen to you when you let Socialists take over. It is a tragic story. One of the wealthiest countries in South America that is still swimming in oil has been relegated to a starving third world country. The elite are lining their pockets, and the poor are starving eating pigeons.

    Why the sheeple in this country do not recognize this is a mystery. Of course, the sheeple in this country couldn't even find Venezuela on a map much less know what is happening there.
     
  33. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Another avenue to this food topic . I read where Native Americans before the White Man screwed everything up , would send out runners to cover great distances . The food source for these runners was dried corn . They would swallow a little corn and drink some water and the corn would swell up in their stomachs and they would continue their run for days . Now I may be old but I am not so old that I can swear there is any truth in this . If that is so a box of grits " ground and dried corn " in a get home bag would be a great item to have in it . I am already bugged in so that would have no effect on me but perhaps would someone in our group caught hundreds of miles away working on powerlines trying to reach our survival retreat . Any input on this ?
     
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