Good Guy With Gun Stops Armed Man In Missouri Walmart... And May Be Sued Along With Police.

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by LastOutlaw, Aug 9, 2019.

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  1. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/08/good-guy-with-gun-stops-armed-man-in-missouri-walmart/
    Good Guy with Gun Stops Armed Man in Missouri Walmart

    A good guy with a gun stopped a man carrying a rifle and 100 rounds of ammunition in a Springfield, Missouri, Walmart Thursday.

    KY3 reports that Springfield Police “responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart: Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd.” They arrived to find the suspect wearing “body armor and military fatigues” and being held at gunpoint by an off-duty firefighter.

    UPDATE:
    At 4:10 p.m. SPD were dispatched to 3150 W. Republic Rd. to a Walmart Neighborhood Market. An armed white male in his twenties was detained by an armed off-duty fireman until officers arrived on scene and took the suspect into custody. More: https://t.co/IZcH3Hn8GV

    — Springfield PD (@SGFPolice) August 9, 2019


    So here is the problem with this story and this arrest. Missouri is a constitutional carry state. Unless the Walmart had no firearms allowed signage this off duty fireman can be arrested and at the very least sued by the open carry person. The police department can also be charged with federal crimes in detaining a lawful open carry citizen without a valid charge or reason to stop and detain.

    They have charged him with terroristic threatening but what did he do to threaten anyone? According to the story he simply walked into the store with his weapon and pushed around a shopping cart while video taping himself.

    I believe he is most likely not real bright considering the recent shooting in El Paso but he broke no laws. He probably is an open carry activist and was making a video to display on You tube. Many open carry activists do wear body armor as the feel they need to have protection from overzealous police officers who may or may not know the law. I can see that this case will probably lead to lawsuits against the off duty fireman and the police department.

    We are headed towards some real issues over these types of arrests in Constitutional carry states. Many police do not know what their limits or the law is concerning legal firearm carry.
     
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  2. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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  3. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Police follow police regulations...not necessarily the Constitution. Some of t hem most likely have little training in Constitutional law..or even precedent law.

    I met a fellow who specialized in suing cities, counties and townships by getting arrested and getting them to violate his civil rights ..then suing these cities, counties, and townships.

    When many judges figured out what had happened...they threw him out of jail as quickly as they could....get rid of him out of their systems......have nothing to do with him. It seems he knew too much.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris.
     
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  4. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    It isn't a matter of knowing the Constitution it is a matter of knowing what the law is in the area that they operate. If you are walking down the street carrying a rifle in an open carry city and an officer pulls up he may not legally stop you or detain you without having a crime to suspect you of committing. If an officer is working in such an open carry area he /she should know what the law is and should have been briefed on how to keep from causing the city or county a lawsuit. Too often police think that they are the law and can make it up as they go. When someone asks why did you stop me the answer should never be anything like "because i can" or anything similar to that.

    Now I am not one to denigrate law enforcement however in an open carry state the law enforcement should know in advance what a citizen's rights are under the law concerning open carry. If you are ever in the situation where you are stopped for legally carrying a firearm the first question you should always ask is "Ami I being detained?" If the answer is yes the next question should be "What crime am I suspected of committing?" No citizen can be detained at any time unless suspected of committing a crime." That is what freedom is. If the officer answers that "no, you are not being detained" Then your next question then is "Am I free to go then?" If he says no, then you are in fact being detained. There is no middle ground. It is your duty as a free citizen to point out that if you are not free to go then you in fact are being detained illegally and they are subject to a federal law suit.

    By asking these questions the law enforcement officer should quickly become aware that he or she may be in the wrong and that you are a citizen who is aware of the law.
     
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  5. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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  6. Radar

    Radar Expert Member
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    What do you think, @LastOutlaw ? He was carrying that much ammo, what'd they say, 100 rounds? Is that illegal or not? I don't think it's illegal. I think they're making a mistake. He is in jail.
    He's being charged with making a terroristic threat in the second degree. I found another link but couldn't post it.

    They mentioned he was a WHITE MALE, but why is that an issue worth mentioning? When perpetrators are not white males, race is not usually mentioned.
     
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  7. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Carrying ammo is not illegal. 3 mags for an AR puts you real close to 100 rounds. To me his vest looked more like a plate carrier than armor. It didn't look like plates were in it but could have been.

    He was quoted yesterday as stating he was checking to see if Walmart respects his 2nd amendment rights. Smart? No considering the timing. Illegal? Not in Missouri. Constitutional open carry is legal there.

    They are trying to do something to make an example out of this guy but in the end I don't think he has done anything illegal. I think they may be cutting off their nose in spite of their face. There now will probably be hundreds of activist open carry people marching around that area with their rifles to make a statement.

    As for the white male thing. I'm beginning to think we need a NAAWP or something along those lines to bring suits against anyone who discriminates against people of non-color. Frankly I'm tired of the white man being demonized. It will only lead top bad things in the future. They no longer mention what race people of color are when a crime is committed. Why can they get away with mentioning a white person now?

    I think you will see a federal lawsuit coming against that police force. over breach of this guys rights. I think you will also see a suit filed against the off duty firefighter who held him at gunpoint until the police arrived. The guy was simply carrying his weapon and there was no legal reason for the firefighter to pull a weapon on him and detain him. Honestly I believe that the firefighter broke the law and possibly could have his carry permit revoked.

    Here is someone open carrying in Walmart with no problems

     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  8. Radar

    Radar Expert Member
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    Screaming could be heard 3 times, but no problems in your video.
    One of your links may have contained within it an additional link which was an update on the story about what he was being charged with, due to his behavior and what kinds of things he was saying. Not arguing with you, just saying.
    It would be assumed that if you're going to open carry you're going to be calm, not try to draw attention to yourself. One could say that how someone else's presence makes another person feel is not the first person's responsibility or fault. Remembering we live in snowflake land almost makes that an unspoken law, if you get my drift, as in, "he's looking at me and it makes me feel bad," etc. And from the updated story I read, that may be the direction the law is going.
    From the NYTIMES.COM:
    "It is illegal to knowingly communicate an implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life or cause fear that a condition existed involving danger to life."

    This is going to get tight and many will be watching.

    This because an employee pulled a fire alarm so that people would evacuate, because this guy was "open carrying." Was there a fire? No. Who was causing fear now? I don't know, I wasn't there. But if he were my brother or husband I would think he was a dumbass, but that's not unconstitutional.
    Everybody wants to be a rockstar and record themselves walking into a store with open carry just to say hey look at me...dumbasses, but not unconstitutional.
     
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