Gun Control America.

Discussion in 'The Hangout' started by Keith H., Mar 8, 2018.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I see on the news that the anti-gun lobby & president Trump are getting a foot in the door, I never thought I would see this happen. Many used to claim there would be civil war if a president did this, but Trump is doing it & so far I see nothing from the gun lobby!
    This is how it happened here in Australia virtually overnight. A very questionable shooting in Port Arthur & the banning of semi-auto bunny guns!!! Since then more gun control. Once they get that foot in the door it is all over bar the crying.
    What are your views on this?
    Are these gun control measures reasonable?
    Keith.
     
  2. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    This is one for the American voters.
     
  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    That is why I posted on this American forum. I see that certain measures have been taken, & personally I see the changes as sensible & reasonable. I hope the changes do not stop under 21s being able to use a firearm under supervision, this would be a mistake I think. Extra funding for mental health is good. Banning bump stops is good. I do not see the need for the average citizen to own & use a fully automatic firearm. Fun yes, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.This is not the same as restricting flintlock pistols in Australia!!!
    Keith.
     
  4. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    LOL LOL LOL......I remember when I could be drafted but could not go off base and buy beer at 18 years olde.

    Now I have long since gotten over that kind of thing as I don't do much drinking today and a career in drinking is not one of my priorities.

    But we have a sort of dilemma here.....and it speaks of classic educated stupidity of leadership here....while pandering to potential voters.


    And that is in that we can train a young man at 17 years olde to pick up a fully automatic rifle and go out and kill and die for his country but when and if he gets home...he cannot buy a rifle of his own.

    This is classic educated stupidity to me. Good enough to die and make people stupidly comfortable in their educated ignorance....even leadership...but not olde enough to buy your own gun.

    Only education can make people this stupid and call it "Feelings!!!....even enlightenment!!"

    And You know what is frightening to me....these people are voters.


    You have amongst much of the world today ...educated stupidity..to where it is moral and ethical to make one group of people disposable and expendable in their rights and property to secure someone else's "Fears, Feelings, and emotions."

    This to me is educated stupidity ...and it is also bondage and hostage taking.....involuntary servitude.


    Only an education in "Entitlement " beliefs as a devout and zealous religion of Politics can dumb a people down this far that they think it is moral and ethical to make one group of people " Disposable and Expendable " in their rights and property to put ointment on the feelings, fears, and insecurities of someone else.

    And this is what is trying to pass for education and enlightenment today...ie....Politics.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    "A very questionable shooting in Port Arthur & the banning of semi-auto bunny guns!!! Since then more gun control. Once they get that foot in the door it is all over bar the crying.
    What are your views on this?"

    The average IQ of Americans is insufficient to the task of creating a sane and reasonable nation. One of my essential gripes with life is that true humans must navigate/sort-out a life within an enormous herd of cattle. Such was the near doom of the life of one of my sons (IQ tests above 140).

    I say, distribute power to the people, even though this will get many killed. Better this than dooming all with centralized power. All humans die, however one wishes not to have them die en masse -- and big governments with centralized armies are really, Really good at wiping out entire peoples.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
     
  6. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Wow Olde Geezer,

    I clicked on your link and immediately recognized the name R. J. Rummel.

    I am familiar with his work on "Democide" or death by ones own government.

    I keep this Wiki link in my Favorites list..for often quick reference.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

    This is also the first time I have seen the link you have referenced here..Thanks for that .


    When first I heard of the word Democide....it was something I had never been taught...never gave it much thought. But when the concept was explained to me....I knew the author was dead in the X ring. I knew this history yet never connected these dots as had R. J. Rummel.

    In regards to "Democide"....it is a disgusting farce ...a lie and a counterfeit to read in certain history books of the French Revolution being described as the first "Scientific Revolution.
    For the French Revolution turned out to be a huge case of "Democide" wherein the French Government wound up killing off about twenty percent of the population in a blood bath.

    And these "Enlightened " leaders were often referred to as "The Encyclopedias."

    I have no illusions that the educated people in America will be any smarter when our times comes and it is coming...quickly now.

    Agree about centralized power...or again...as I am often want to say...power to herd people. Not for me thanks.


    Watcherchris.
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
  7. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Guns are to violence what spoons are to obesity. Sorry but the problem isn't the bad guns forcing people to do bad things. The problem that our government refuses to address is that bad people have more rights than victims or good people. Stop with the stupid gun laws. It is already against the law in every place to shoot people and anyone that has decided to cross that line isn't going to be in the least worried about any lesser laws.

    We need laws that are directed at controlling these violent people, removing them from our society and limiting THEIR access to guns. Most violent crimes are committed by people that have a history of violence and often are already convicted felons. We need laws that address them and their violence.

    Have you ever thought about how stupid it is to reward a person for being an incompetent killer. Usually if some thug shoots someone and they survive, even if caught, the sentence for attempted murder puts them back on the streets in just a few years. I sat on a jury one time that gave a guy life for attempted murder. It wasn't that he shot this guy two or three times that got him a life sentence. It was the fact that by age 40 he had done this three times and we could send him off on a habitual criminal sentence. The dude was a terrible shot and if you don't hit someone in the head or have a powerful weapon they don't usually die. This was his THIRD attempted murder conviction with prison time served between each. He also has several other violent crimes, drug dealing and theft...what in the hell was he doing out on the streets??? Fortunately a couple weeks after we sentenced him he stabbed a jailer and was shot and died other wise he would probably be out today or back in for a fourth shooting.

    This kid in Florida was KNOWN to the police and known to be violent. Why were his rights so much more important than the innocents that he killed?

    Make it so any American can apply for a permit to buy and own forearms. Add it to your drivers license just like I have an add on that allows me to operate motorcycles and commercial trucks but MUST wear corrective lenses for my eyes. Make it law that you must show this to buy a gun from ANYONE and make it a crime for ANYONE to sell a gun to anyone without seeing and recording that ID. If you get in trouble it can be removed and you can't buy guns. If you are a convicted felon that should be reflected on the license and if you are caught with a gun you go to prison.

    Keep the animals locked up for life. Trying to harm people is just as bad as actually doing it. If you harm someone they need to evaluate whether you need guns or not. If you try to harm yourself they need to evaluate you. If you act just plain bat$hi+ crazy they need to look at you. If you have more than one DUI they need to disarm you.

    The big thing though is if you hurt someone with the obvious intent to do major, possibly lethal, bodily harm you need to be locked up. Second offence is the END!

    Children need to be cared for and WATCHED. When a parent asks for help the police and government need to give it!!!! Kids don't just suddenly go off. There are usually warning signs. Sometimes the warning signs are not in the actions of the child in question. Some of our kids are taking a beating in schools these days. Some of this is physical and some of it is psychological. Why aren't we doing something for them?? Is it better to wait until they take charge of the problem themselves?

    We had a shooting here when my Daughter was in Junior High. The shooter had been bullied and beat up numerous times and nothing was done. He tried telling his parents and the people at the school but the school officials wrote it off as just rough horse play. He showed up to school one morning with a gun. When the bully jumped on him he pulled the gun and warned him. He even tried to escape but the bully kept beating him until he was shot.

    The bully lived but lost a lung. The boy was tried for attempted murder and found innocent. The beating that he took that morning required surgery to repair. The Jury saw that he clearly had a reasonable reason to fear for his life and since nobody would protect him he had the right to protect himself. He warned he retreated and when the bully came on he got shot. WHY was it allowed to get to that point though??

    We have to stop accepting violence. Rioters should be shot and killed. Murderers should be locked up and if the murder was done while there was also an associated felony it should be forever. Using a gun in a crime should have a 30 year tax on top of the sentence for the crime. If you get ten years for robbing a store and you used a gun then you are bye bye for 40 years.

    It isn't the guns that are the problem!!!!! It is bad people and even more so it is STUPID people that let them do it over and over and over...
     
    Ystranc likes this.
  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Ok part two of my rant. Please bear with me...

    I believe that gun ownership is not just a right but to some extent it is a responsibility. I carry a gun. It is not just because I like them nor is it because I am afraid. To me bearing arms means that I am taking responsibility for my safety AND the safety of others that might need my protection. Cops, even if they wanted to protect people, can't be everywhere and unfortunately there are a lot more violent criminals than there are cops. As an honorable man I feel an obligation to the innocent and will do my best to protect and help them. I will and have done this even without a gun all of my adult life just as my Father before me did.

    Now, with all that said, not everyone should have a gun. Lots of people don't have the mental stability that you need to carry and use a gun. If you are prone to losing your temper then having a gun on you may not be wise. If you are dumb as a box of rocks you probably are not going to use a gun in a safe and intelligent manner. If you are a convicted felon you are forbidden from having a gun for a reason. Rights need to have attached responsibilities and the rights to keep and bear arms carry with it a huge responsibility.

    I have no problem with the Florida ban on selling guns to people under the age of 21. There is a very good reason why there are laws about selling alcohol to people under 21 and also laws about handguns are already on the books. I personally think that it was stupid to give the vote to people under 21. I know that old thing about them being old enough to go to war and all that. I was around for the draft even though I couldn't vote, buy booze or buy a handgun. BEEN THERE and let me tell you something...The same thing that makes an 18 to 21 year old as great soldier and warrior is the thing that makes them not the best people to trust with a lot of responsibility.

    The FACT is that the human brain is the last part of the body to actually finish its path to maturity. The frontal lobe doesn't finish until a male is about 25. There is a reason why car insurance is sky high for males under the age of 21!!! The reality of being human, especially a male, is that you tend to be very emotional and prone to doing stupid things. I look back and will tell you, it is only by the grace of powers greater than myself that I'm alive and never been to prison. I was maybe especially stupid when I was younger so I'm not talking down to anyone.

    Gun ownership and use requires a person to be able to make rational judgements under stress. You can't shoot someone because they made you mad or because they scared you. You HAVE to be able to make the judgement that they are a REAL threat that can only be stopped with lethal force. Sadly this isn't something that everyone is up to.

    I think that we need to make it more like other responsibilities that we place on people when they are given other rights. At a given age you gain the right to get a license and then drive a powered vehicle. We don't just hand a kid the keys and turn them loose. they have to learn how to drive under supervision and then pass a test before they are allowed to drive. The same is true for flying and most all other things that have a possibility of causing harm or injury to you or others.

    Personally I wouldn't have any problem with a requirement that people receive a little training before they are allowed to buy a gun. A once in a lifetime class that upon completion you would receive a license to buy and own guns. If you committed a felony this would be taken away. If you acted crazy it would be taken away. If you acted violent, irresponsible in other ways like DUIs or drunk and disorderly, domestic violence where serious injury resulted.

    Good, responsible people not only should be allowed to have and carry guns, they should be ENCOURAGED to do so. This would put an end to the threat from the nuts and the terrorists. I assure you that a shooter in a lot of places in Texas would not last long. Guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE. If you take my gun then YOU are now totally responsible for my safety and if I get hurt you should PAY. I generally avoid places that have signs up not allowing legally carried guns. It is like putting up a sign that tells a nut or terrorist that this is a safe place to come and kill people.

    With all the guns that people in Texas are carrying there are less shootings here than on places that have the most rigorous gun laws. I have never even heard of anyone pulling a gun in an anger based argument. For one thing in Texas we have a right to carry a weapon but it is a felony to "brandish" a firearm. You don't have it to threaten people with!!It is fine to use to protect you and your property but it isn't to EVER be used to threaten or frighten someone. You can almost be assured, If I come out with a gun someone is probably going to get shot. It will only happen when I feel that is the only option that I have left.

    We need to protect our rights BUT also we need to make sure that the responsibilities that go with them are pushed equally.
     
  9. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Texdanm,

    If you cannot be trusted with a "Spoon" you will never be trusted with a vote!!!!

    In like manner ....if you cannot be trusted with a gun you will never be trusted with a vote.

    Negative...absolutely not. This kind of thing always sounds good and reasonable and logical....but Rights are not licensed by state or local governments.

    As I am often want to declare....when you read the first ten amendments they are limits on government...and not to be licensed by state or federal governments.

    Once you license them you put them in the category of privileges granted by a sovereign....and you have subjects and not citizens.
    Privileges can be revoked and or removed by the sovereign and at the sovereign's discretion.....not so with rights.

    This is a very very important distinction for which most of our public school/'television and movie education have not taught us.
    This is also what separates Americans from most of the people in nations around the world...rights verses privileges.

    It is so obvious to me that it is important to someone that we as Americans do not know this distinction between rights and privileges granted by the sovereign.


    I hear our local talk show host speaking of your "Voting Privilege." When I went to public school it was your right to vote. When did it become a privilege??? I did not see the memo.


    Agree with this in principle. But you do not do this by not trusting your people and putting them in a position where they are guilty without a trial and take from them their property.

    You do not do this by "Herding" people against their will and over their objection...finding them less than moral , ethical, and then take their property.

    You do not make one group of people safe and secure at the expense of the Rights ...under the Constitution of the United States.....of another group...and take the property of these people who have had nothing to do with what happened in Florida.

    And licenses are a change of jurisdiction from Rights to Privileges granted by the Sovereign.


    Agree...gun ownership is a huge responsibility.


    Agree..with this. But a difficult thing to do with a people who have mostly a television and movie education and these media push mostly Ishmaelite sex, sexuality and a lot of violence.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
  10. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Some people don't deserve all of the rights we offer. The RIGHTS that you talk about are ALL only offered by OUR government and are not offered by all governments. What I propose is that people need to be offered a little training before they are freed with guns just as we don't allow children to drive, fly airplanes or do a lot of other things like vote. I honestly don't think that the vote should be given so freely. By LETTING people be trained a little before they are given the right to buy guns you are filtering out the people that should never be allowed to have them. IDIOTS should not have guns, Felons should not have guns, crazy people should not have guns and children should not have free access to them either.

    The RIGHT that you talk about are running rampant these days. The RIGHTS of criminals have reached the point where the rights of good people are being TRASHED. I'm sick of this and am fully ready to take the rights away from the evil to save the good. The liberal idea that the RIGHTS of the evil to do evil is greater than the RIGHTS of the good to live in peace is a sickness that is destroying this country.

    RIGHTS can only be offered by a government that can enforce those rights but when the RIGHTS become more important than the people then chaos rules and the government becomes ineffective as the people that don't play by the rules will always win if the other allow much less encourage it. Basically the universe offers NO rights and you only have what you are willing to fight for. We need to fight for the right to keep and bear arms and part of that fight is going to have to be disarming those that should not have them!
     
    1. Ystranc
      With rights come the responsibility for your actions. If someone is unwilling or unable to accept that responsibility then should they retain those rights?
       
      Ystranc, Mar 27, 2018
  11. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    Americans need to stop all discussion on gun control. We need take the issue off the table and put it away for good.

    They can't have my guns. They're not up for negotiations.
     
  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I really don't think that the liberal understand. If they get Washington politicians to try and take away our guns many of us will see it as the end of our constitutional republic. I wonder if the liberals are half as willing to die trying to take our guns as we are to keep them. If they were to try some sort of draconian confiscation of guns this country would split into pieces and civil war would be an absolute certainty. Texas isn't the only place that would be happy to part ways with Washington.
     
  13. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Texdanm and others,

    Negative once again Texdanm....negative...a big huge negative.


    These rights are not offered by Our government....not at all.

    They were endowed by our creator and our creator is not the government. The government charter indicates that they are to stay out of meddling with our rights. The rights listed or enumerated and in particular in the First Ten Amendments are "All" limits on government behaviors...not on the people.

    These rights belonged to the people from the beginning ...even before we ever had a charter and the founders so stated in the Declaration of Independence.



    These "Rights " were ours from the beginning ..even before there was a government.

    If you reverse this under "Intellect" as are so many of our "College Professors today" you have privileges granted by the Sovereign. This is exactly what is happening in England and on the Continent...wherein the people have to prove their innocence....and are guilty from the beginning.

    This is a marked difference in the Judicial systems.....;privileges granted by the Sovereign verses Rights Granted by the Creator.

    Absolute power in the hands of men....and once again you will be back to "divine right of kings."

    We are not to be this way in America.


    Now this Texdanm,

    This is what happens in a government who's investment in their people is now morphed into "chaos." Men naturally begin to reverse the jurisdictions....the starting point...but also along the way ...they dumb the people down...such that they cannot figure out what is going on out here.

    "Ordo Ob Chao"

    Manufacture the chaos such that at new order can be brought in to bear upon a nation and people....internationalism....verses nationalism.

    In short...a political, economic, shakedown.


    Gotta run
    Catch up with the boards later.

    Watcherchris
     
  14. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. We need another civil war. Long overdue.
     
  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Rather than attempting to foist their utopian fantasies upon those they consider only hoi polloi, better that the self-appointed "elite" polish what vestige of a soul they have left of themselves. Something about distinguishing the difference between sh!# and Shinola.

     
  16. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    I do not agree...about a civil war. But nonetheless...I am not the center of this kind of event.



    The problem with civil wars or even revolutions is that often they wind up going where the original intent was not intended.

    Or put another way...the purpose of the civil war or revolution gets hijacked into something else...and away from it's original intent. This usually happens via someone who was financing it in the first place and just biding their time until they could move in and take over.
    Cuba is a prime example of this history....and there are other examples.


    With the American Civil War of 1861 to 1865....we lost the United States and got instituted into it's Stead.....a facsimile government operating on "The Colour of Law" and not the Law.

    I have heard various American Presidents use/misuse this statement in their speeches "Colour of Law or Colourable Law" and very very few people know what it means.
    I remember George Bush 2 using this term in one of his speeches and knew immediately about what he was speaking.

    What happened to the Law. When and where did the switch take place to "The Colour of Law and away from The Law??"


    The Colour of Law means ....."The Appearance of the Law." It does not means the Law.

    It means that the form of law is kept...not the actual law.

    That on paper the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed...but the intent of the law is not carried out...only the form of the law.


    This is the kind of thing which happens in Civil Wars and often much worse.


    It is very seldom in history where you have a Civil War or even a Revolution wherein the government which restores order is better than the one that was replaced.


    Be Warned on this aspect of history.


    Watcherchris.
     
  17. arctic bill

    arctic bill Expert Member
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    I do not see a right to own a gun. it is a privilege. Only if you are sane, responsible,non violent, reasonable person should you be allowed to own a gun. The government must check you out and then if you are OK then you are allowed to have one.
     
  18. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Negative Bill...a big negative.

    NO right to own a gun ..or "Arms" makes us as Americans no different than "Subjects" in Europe or other nations.

    A subject has "Privileges " granted by the Sovereign.....not rights with which they were born or given by their "Creator."

    Privileges can be revoked by the Sovereign for any reason..and this is the exact power that most governments want....going back to "Absolute Power or what is also sometimes called Divine Right of Kings."

    Rights under a Constitution is a very very different thing and changes the jurisdiction at law. Governments hell bent on tyranny or Herding their people....want to reverse the Jurisdiction in America at law to where you have to prove your innocence....and they can therefore remove your property ...then you must prove your innocence and often still ...they do not have to give back your property..because of the Jurisdiction of the Sovereign...because of the power structure.

    Read the Declaration of Independence.....second paragraph...


    Endowed by their creator ...not by government. A people can give up their rights ..but the government is not allowed to take them except by due process....and government is always messing with due process to get for themselves more power to herd people and their property.

    The founders were insistent that these "Rights" be listed for all time..and for the people to know what they are. And they are listed in the Constitution of the United States as a Right...not a privilege.


    If you notice in particular..these first ten Amendments are all limits on government...not on the people. This is important and a thorn in the backside of Liberals/leftists and also phony Republicans in bed secretly with the liberals and leftists.

    Of what I am speaking here in this post is hardly taught to young students today such that few even realize or have ever heard what I am explaining.

    This is not accidental but deliberate on the part of government through public education.

    There was a time when government taught this to the people....it was a standard part of our education.



    I remember going about asking the younger people in our shop the question ...."Who was John Wilkes Booth??"

    Some 15 people.

    Almost none of them but one...knew who he was...and this one knew very very well who he was. This one person had read and studied on this own.

    He told me that not only was John Wilkes Booth the man known for shooting Abraham Lincoln..but Booth was also a known actor of his day.

    The amount of simple knowledge omitted from our thinking today is astonishing to me..


    But hey........how about those Kardashians???? How about the NFL....NASCAR.......etc etc et al.


    Historically when governments determine who can own a gun...by privilege granted by the sovereign....almost no one gets to own a gun...or it is severely limited or controlled...to the point of non existence.


    If we as Americans cannot be trusted with a gun .....why would we ever be trusted with a vote.

    And if you observe what is going on with this sitting President.....someone is trying hard to nullify the last election. Do you really think that if they succeed in overthrowing a lawfully elected President... that the next up and coming elections would not be rigged???
    For it is obvious by the manufactured chaos....that someone believes this country belongs to them...not to the people.


    If you cannot be trusted with a gun......you will Never be trusted with a vote.
    And this is why gun ownership is being morphed from a right to a privilege granted by the sovereign.
    Because Americans cannot be trusted with either a gun or a vote in their own country.

    Why do you think someone needs to bring in so many illegals...to rig the vote because Americans cannot be trusted...but Illegals can. Common Sense.

    It is happening in England and on the Continent too...for the very same reasons.
    Those people too cannot be trusted to run their own country...with their own vote.
    So someone is flooding these countries with Immigrants...to control the voting process.
    And their's and our news media is silent on this aspect....Silent!!

    They certainly cannot be trusted with gun ownership...in these other countries.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    The ability to defend oneself and ones family is a God-given right. I would even say, responsibility. The U.S. Constitution owes much to the Magna Carta and other such noble documents that have stated this reality. If people allow themselves to be victims, they reward and enable the aggressors, thus guarantying that these aggressors will attack others in the future.

    And we are a nation of adults. We don't look to Big Brother or Mommy and Daddy to come protect us from life and all its hideously dark realities. We organize armies in times of war. Thomas Jefferson had to use national armed forces; for example, using the Navy against the Barbary Pirates. However, Jefferson loathed standing armies -- he was all too well aware of what these armies perpetuated in Europe. The U.S. Constitution could also be called the "We aren't going to be like Europe" document.

    The police can't protect you -- what a joke! The police come in to make a formal report and have the wounded and the dead removed from the scene. Sometimes the police might get the opportunity to arrest one of the perpetrators, but usually what few they arrest, they arrest in times future. During the 1992 L.A. riots, the National Guard were carrying unloaded rifles -- essentially, they were there to protect the rioters from the civilians (who abide by laws; by definition, criminals do not). I was so proud of the Korean merchants who returned fire back in 1992; good for them.

    Western fiat currencies are going to collapse. See what protection you'll get when the men and women in uniform stop receiving valid paychecks. They have family just like you and I, so they will protect their own and do so first. Humans are human.
     
  20. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Olde Geezer......


    Here here!!! Here...here!!!


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
  21. arctic bill

    arctic bill Expert Member
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  22. arctic bill

    arctic bill Expert Member
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    with all due respect, I think your country has it wrong. the rest of the world does not accept that gun ownership is a right. if you take your argument to final conclusion it means might is right . which it is not. I am not anti american in fact half of my family either lives there or is from there.
     
  23. arctic bill

    arctic bill Expert Member
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    Further, a privilege is conditional , a right that cannot be separated (alienated) from a person. so if a person is a criminal. or insane, for example then this right of gun ownership is lost. therefore it is not a right but a privilege.
     
  24. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Rights that are not equally balanced with responsibility are an abomination. To give a gun to a madman, an idiot or a person with criminal intent as a RIGHT is insanity.

    The American Civil War was not in any way about what the winners that wrote the history books said it was. Nearly all of the history from that time is lies. Firstly slavery as practiced in the South was dying out. The economic slavery of tenant farming was far more profitable. All of the slaves of Robert E. Lee were to be freed at his death and this was set before the war was started. Lincoln's famous emancipation proclamation didn't free a single slave. It was written to only include the slave in the Confederate States over which he had no authority while NOT freeing the slaves in the FIVE slave holding Union states where he theoretically had that power.

    The civil war was fought over the basic structure of our form of government. We are the UNITED States of American and never meant to be the REPUBLIC of America. Lincoln was the first Republican elected to the presidency and his aims and intention of creating a Republic where all power was centralized in Washington led to the civil war which was about STATES Rights of self determination. The Union was partially saved by the actions of people that believed in the original constitutional arrangement. One of the things that history fails to make known is that Lincoln was not actually very popular even in the North. When he was given the presidency he was also saddled with a vice president from a Southern sympathising State.

    It was Lincoln's intentions to crush the South and never return their States rights. Eventually he would have done the same to the North and in the end it was the intention of he and his party to recreate our country into the Republic of America. His assassination had as many holes in it as the Kennedy assassination. Like that one it turned our country in a different direction. Johnson upon taking power immediately started the process of reintegrating the Southern States back into the Union. For this they tried unsuccessfully to remove him from office. In the end the attempt to restructure our union into a republic mostly failed...MOSTLY but not entirely. To some extent we are still struggling with this. The lines have changed but the problems are the same.

    Where the Civil war lines were drawn as a North South issue todays lines are instead drawn in an Super Urban less urban divide. Below is a map showing by the county what places voted Clinton and which voted Trump. Red being trump and Blue being Clinton.

    http://pre15.deviantart.net/7499/th...ction_map__county__by_louisthefox-daoezzd.png

    Below this time is a map of the 2012 presidential election.

    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/countymaprb1024.png

    This is the pattern for many decades.

    As more and more people move into the massive urban areas we will eventually see a shift of power. In the end the same things that brought things to a head in the 1860s will cause another break in our Union as Washington tried to take total power into itself. The spark this time could easily be over the right of individuals to keep and bear arms and be free men.
     
  25. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Well Bill....that is a very interesting statement of your's I have quoted above and also textbook of todays public education non standards here in America. Typical and textbook.

    First off....we are Americans. We are not the rest of the world. Why someone would want to invoke the beliefs and standards of the rest of the world on us is a mystery to me. Not really ..but it fits.

    No one here is saying might makes right. That too is textbook of public school thinking, and education. It is typical of todays emotions passing for thinking.

    What some of us do know is history....Bill. It is governments who try to make might into right...not ordinary people.
    I am thinking you know little history if you are not aware of this.
    It is governments who have the track record of trying to make might into right....all throughout history.


    What some of us know is that King George sent troops here to have his way with the colonies. Some of this in the early days of this country took place right here and ended here just above me at Yorktown, Virginia. The early colonial capital was also near Yorktown...at a place called Williamsburg. This history is known around here....by many of us.

    It is just not covered in public schools here today.

    King George did not want the Colonialists to meet in big groups, churches, redress of greviences....and we see this in Amendment 1 of our Bill of Rights.

    Not many nations have such an Bill of Rights in their Charter of Government.

    Then after that he disarmed many of the colonialists....took their guns.

    The people in the colonies could not be trusted to meet, worship, redress of grievances...freedom of press. and so on.

    Then they could not be trusted with a gun. This is the reason for Amendment 2 of our Bill of Rights.




    Then when they were disarmed and could not meet in big numbers....the colonialists were forced to shelter British Troops in their homes. This is the reason for Amendment 3 of our Bill or Rights in our Constitution.


    and also homes were searched without due process...the reason for Amendment 4

    People were forced to bear witness against themselves and other conduct favoring the King. Amendment 5.

    No speedy trials...etc etc etc.


    These items listed in our Bill of Rights in our Constitution of the United States are there to limit the power of our government.

    Because our Founding Fathers were well aware of history going back to the Greeks and Romans. They knew how governments could abuse their power and by this their people.

    It is no accident that our government charter is written the way it is.


    Thanks to all for their posts,
    Watcherchris
     
  26. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Texdanm,

    Yup...this is one of the biggest lies of our history books...and you hear it spoon fed to so many today without people doing any thinking.

    All true but not what one gets in the history books.


    Read "Mr Secretary " by Ben Ames Williams.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Secretary...-1&keywords=mr+secretary+by+ben+ames+williams

    Ben Ames Williams is the pen name for Edwin Stanton the Secretary of War for Abraham Lincoln and in this book he tells how he committed treason against American and Lincoln by maneuvering Uniion losses and throwing battles to the South to keep the war going until certain goals were reached..

    How he manipulated the telegraph messages to allow Robert E. Lee to get his Army back across the Potomac River while the Union General Meade received intercepted telegraphs for him to stand fast and not move after Lee.
    Lee got his entire Army back across the Potomac River. If Meade had moved on a vulnerable Lee..the war would have been over.

    There was much more going on during the Civil War and afterwords in a conspiracy against the American People than most history books want to cover.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris.
     
  27. arctic bill

    arctic bill Expert Member
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    Chris, if I may call you that , I can see that american fought for its right to be free from the king with the gun and has a place of affection for the gun. but in canada we gained our freedom from the king with peaceful negotiations. So i do not see that this love of guns is required for freedom.
    BTY the way i study the american civil war and that stuff about Edwin Stanton the Secretary of War Is just not true . And that part about lee setting all his slaves free is not true. his father in law will stated the all his slaves were to be set 5 years after his death , which he did not .
    Late 1850s: Arlington plantation and the Custis slaves
    13c498c40d4b62cb818957b7b7810635.jpeg
    Arlington House, Arlington
    Mary Custis' inheritance in 1857
    13c498c40d4b62cb818957b7b7810635.png
    Christ Church, Alexandria, where the Lees worshiped

    In 1857, his father-in-law George Washington Parke Custis died, creating a serious crisis when Lee took on the burden of executing the will. Custis's will encompassed vast landholdings and hundreds of slaves balanced against massive debts, and required Custis's former slaves "to be emancipated by my executors in such manner as to my executors may seem most expedient and proper, the said emancipation to be accomplished in not exceeding five years from the time of my decease."[56] The estate was in disarray, and the plantations had been poorly managed and were losing money.[57]Lee tried to hire an overseer to handle the plantation in his absence, writing to his cousin, "I wish to get an energetic honest farmer, who while he will be considerate & kind to the negroes, will be firm & make them do their duty."[58] But Lee failed to find a man for the job, and had to take a two-year leave of absence from the army in order to run the plantation himself. He found the experience frustrating, since many of the slaves had been given to understand that they were to be made free as soon as Custis died, and protested angrily at the delay.[59] In May 1858, Lee wrote to his son Rooney, "I have had some trouble with some of the people. Reuben, Parks & Edward, in the beginning of the previous week, rebelled against my authority—refused to obey my orders, & said they were as free as I was, etc., etc.—I succeeded in capturing them & lodging them in jail. They resisted till overpowered & called upon the other people to rescue them."[58] Less than two months after they were sent to the Alexandria jail, Lee decided to remove these three men and three female house slaves from Arlington, and sent them under lock and key to the slave-trader William Overton Winston in Richmond, who was instructed to keep them in jail until he could find "good & responsible" slaveholders to work them until the end of the five-year period.[58]

    Chris , I really know american civil war history , I am civil war reenactor and historian .
     
  28. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    The final conclusion about human nature is this: "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    World literature, world history, and the study of human psychology bear-out this reality. Witness the Stanford Prison Experiment. Witness the European Jewish Holocaust of the 1930s and 40s. On and on and on and on and on ...

    Might does NOT make right! Might makes humans homicidally insane. This is why power must NEVER be concentrated in the hands of a few.

    "Oh, but things are different now! We have a benevolent central government and we are too educated to ever let any power over others corrupt us." Yea, sure! I call B.S.! And if you have a benevolent government in this generation and in the next generation and another-yet generation, know this, in a time coming, that power structure will be inherited by or conquered by those who will pervert good purpose and wield such power to their own purpose and thus shall begin the days of the end of individual liberties altogether.

    Witness university campuses today where free speech is only politically-correct speech. Witness the shout-down of those possessing maturity and wisdom. Witness the ascendance of the adolescent tantrum wherein theories trump realities.

    I would to God that humans were further up the evolutionary path as concerns I.Q. and emotional control; however, to pretend that our species has accomplished that which it assuredly has NOT is not simple folly, it is the path to hell.
     
    Keith H. likes this.
  29. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Bill...no problem in calling me Chris...

    I think you missed the history. The colonialists tried negotiations...before the Revolutionary War took place. Redress of Grievances...negotiations.

    As this built up ...in severity it wound up in the Boston Massacre around 1770.

    Who used guns to fire on whom???



    Canada...in 1867??? Your kidding right??

    You do know that America had just concluded it's Civil War in which Great Britain and also France were still trying to interfere and on the side of the Confederacy.

    Most Americans of whom I know are woefully ignorant of this aspect in history of the American Civil War...that both England and France were operating privily against the United States.

    As Abraham Lincoln was to state..."We have now defeated England for the third time."


    And to follow up....by US forces in sending supplies to Mexico to out the French under Maximillian...in continuing the loan payments to European Creditors. The USA was sticking to the Monroe Doctrine. By 1867 the French were out of Mexico.
    This too is little understood history by most Americans.


    England was in no position to use arms against either the USA or Canada. England did the most expedient thing she could do under the circumstances with granting Canada her Independence.

    And the English crown was making plenty of money during that time shipping Opium from the Orient to places in the western world as well as the orient itself. She was not that concerned with Canada.

    On top of all this...when you read Amendment 2 to our Constitution it clearly states..

    The security of a free state...and when one takes an oath of office for the military it states..."Enemies foreign and domestic."


    While I am at it.....my day job is handling uranium 235 fuel cells to be installed in a nuclear reactor/reactors.

    Are you really and seriously concerned with my stance on gun ownership??

    Do you think there may be something wrong with me mentally....psychologically ????

    Do you think I cannot be trusted with a gun??? How about a vote??

    But I can be trusted to handle uranium 235!!??

    Good cop/bad cop?? GFW Hegel....thesis, anti thesis, synthesis??

    Life is nice when we can fit others into a box we build based on what we learned in public schools and via our Feel Good governments.



    People/Americans who do real work and take real risks with their lives...and for their substance..do not want to be so herded...and in particular by and for the rest of the world.

    I've been out in this world....I was born in a third world country.

    Those of us who can still think outside of a television and movie education have little interest in keeping up with what the rest of the world thinks wants and expects of us to dole out to them.

    We as Americans know we have spent to much of our finest blood in other countries an for someone else's profits...many of them not even Americans. We do not have much interest in Internationalism nor Deep State soul stealing...turning us into a nation of Ishmaelites.
    We choose to keep/cling to our guns and our religion.

    We are appropriately called deplorables by internationalists/Ishmaelites.

    Those of us who can still think....realize that if we cannot be trusted with a gun we will never be trusteed with a vote.

    Think this is a joke...The unarmed/disarmed British people who voted for Brexit....someone is trying to nullify the vote taken some time back and keep Brexit from happening.
    They are trying to sneak this in the back door....politically.
    This meaning the English people cannot be trusted with their vote.


    Thanks for your posts,

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  30. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Olde Geezer,

    I agree with your posting and read of history.

    Also and in particular about what is happening on our colleges and in our media too...even by our leadership...bullying and incivility..

    Bill,

    The version of Mr. Secretary goes against the standard version of the M1A issue of the American Civil war....mostly propaganda...for public consumption.

    I am in the Chesapeake Bay of Virginia. Not only did much Revolutionary War issues happen here...including early colonial activities...but Jamestown is some 30 miles to the north west of me.

    Many Battles took place here ....including the ironclad battle of the Monitor and the CSS Virginia.

    The Peninsula Campaign of General McClellan took place here and also the Fortress Monroe is here as well.

    I also have Izolla Forrester's book "This One Mad Act."

    This is Izolla Forrester's version of what happened to her grandfather John Wilkes Booth.

    None of these are the authorized versions of the American Civil War.

    I did not bother reading "Killing Lincoln" by this fox news fellow O'riley. I do not trust Fox News in like manner to how I do not also trust the rest of the MSM.

    There is much writing and re writing of the American Civil war in PC versionsl.

    I ran into a fellow who worked at the Mariners Museum...here in Virginia and was particularly well versed in Civil War naval history.

    This particular fellow, like Shelby Foote, was greatly disapproving of Ken Burns version of the American Civil War shown on PBS television. He describes Ken Burns as more of the PC version of History.

    Some of this for which I am describing can be applied to our involvement in WW1, WW2, Korea,and also Vietnam.
    The same pattern of rewriting the history to the PC narrative for political leverage and power over people.

    The cold war ..the same thing.

    Russia was never a super power except in the news media and in public school teachings. Russia still is not today.

    Gotta run,
    Thanks for your posts,
    Catch up with the boards later.

    Watcherchris
     
  31. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    Bill..

    The shipyard wherein I work is on the end of the James River...named for King James as is Jamestown upriver from here.

    One of the privileges I've had in working here is to see the engine from the USS Monitor when it was brought up from its graveyard sinking site off Hattaras North Carolina....to sit for a little over a week in the bottom of DryDock 10 with salt water being pumped onto it to keep it wet. The tank for its desalinization up at the Mariners Museum was being prepared for it and was still being welded/completed.

    The engine was hung upside down and you could see the Monitor's frames to which it was bolted while the water was pumped onto it.

    It was a one cylinder affair..and very unusual. I consider myself privileged to have seen it before most of the American People.

    As soon as we got slack time and heard about it, many of us made trips down into the bottom of DryDock 10 to put eyes on a piece of history. It is a humbling experience to realize so starkly what it is upon which ones eyes are feasting.

    This shipyard is a big contributor to the Mariners Museum up in Newport News, Virginia....one of the biggest.


    The other irony of this was that just across the DryDock floor was stored the four huge propellers of the USS Eisenhower which was in DryDock 11 next door undergoing overhaul and refueling of it's reactor.

    All of the Nimitz class aircraft carriers were built/born here. ....and now too the Ford Class carriers.

    Half of our nations nuclear submarines are built/born here as well.

    Lots of American history happened here in Virginia....and so too continues to this day.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
  32. slackercruster

    slackercruster New Member
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    OP...these things are nothing. The war on guns has just started. That is just the tip of the proverbial berg.

    Conservative views are no longer popular in the US. The Dems will be taking control of the vote down the road. And probably sooner than later. And that is when things will be really hot.

    Does anyone think the Dems would be satisfied with outlawing AR's only? They've already shown in their proposed ban legislation that their original demands for the AR's have magically trickled down to semi-auto pistols.

    But, lets say all the semi-autos were confiscated, both pistols and rifles. Then the school killer gets a pump 12 ga. and 2 or 3 snubbies in the coat. A few speed loaders and they are good to go. He goes up to the kids and puts one through their eye or ear? Same dead kids as the AR.

    The Dems don't really need an excuse to confiscate more guns. That is their end game plan all along. But boom, they are outraged and they call in all the shotguns and revolvers.

    Now all you got left is a bolt action single shots. Then a nutjob heads into the hills and starts sniping people...no surprise, single shots get confiscated.

    This is not some fantasy, this is how England and Australia confiscated all the guns...just quicker. But England and Australia did not stop there. Then they confiscated the knives as well.

    There is no negotiation on the black guns. Black guns are what is needed for militia defense at a minimum. The NRA needs to be proactive and take ANY negotiation, watering down, reinterpretation or repealing of the 2A off the table right now. That is accomplished by organization and strength. The NRA needs to form a National Patriot Militia. Without organization and strength, eventually it is just a matter of time before your guns will be confiscated. This is not a pipe dream...this is your future.

    The 2ndA was upheld last time by a 5 to 4 vote. Homosexual marriage was passed on a 5 to 4 vote. Just a matter of time for the 2A.
     
  33. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    Yep. This it, boys and girls, America is finished. They aren't just coming for the guns, but for all you have, and the race war is well underway. Whites are to be robbed of all they have and exterminated. For a perfect example of our very near future, look no further than the White genocide now well underway in South Africa. It is a model for the United States and Western Europe. Western Europe is now a hopeless cause, Canada, too. We're done. Tribe up now--or die. Even candidates for sheriff and other governmental offices are calling for death to gun owners and confiscation of our property: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...f-suggests-killing-people-to-take-their-guns/

    When the communists take all in the coming midterm elections, they will begin impeachment proceedings against Trump immediately. They will win. After taking control of the government, the borders will be opened to all comers from the Third World, and our White genocide will accelerate at an alarming rate. The spending, land confiscation, laws against Whites, "reparations" will be rushed in and mandatory, and America will be vanquished forever.

    We lost.

    Tribe up ASAP. You're desperately going to need it. Look to Western SD, Utah, Northern AZ, MT, and a few other places to live, where Whites can make our last stand.

    We can no longer win through politics. Civil war is our last hope. Trump is great, but he's on his own, under complete control by now, and he's too little too late.

    Prepare. It's coming.

    "Does Shed Blood Save Us?" -- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

    Yes, it does.

    And, whatever you do, no matter what laws they make, DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR GUNS!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  34. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Honestly I'm not terribly worried about a race war. I was worried about that sort of thing 30 or 40 years ago but I know a lot more now than I did then. The fact is that it is a matter of numbers. There is no real danger from less than 15% of the American population. Throw in the fact that what we would be seeing is once again an urban issue rather than a national issue. Honestly the white people in the US that count are already armed to the max. Answer me this. How many anti gun limp wristed liberals do you thing join the military and are militaristic in nature. In the event of a problem they just don't count.

    Most black people in America are good hard working people. Our sick government has created most of the racial issues in this country by making laws and then not applying them equally. In the end everyone feels like they got the crappy end of the stick. I think that they do it so we both fear each other and in truth there isn't a lot to fear.

    Basically I was raised in serious Klan country and while they talk a lot they don't do anything anymore. Also have you noticed that when there are riots that the black rioters stay carefully in their neighborhoods? I just don't see enough honest friction to fuel a real problem.

    Politicians say lots of stupid things and in recent years the liberal ones seem to be getting dumber every year. LOL, I loved when Clinton called any one that didn't vote for her "deplorables". I don't worry about the stupid things that liberal politicians say.

    The gun issue would tear this country into pieces! The government knows this and they also know that they can't win this battle. They would have a war on their hands and I'm not sure how many pieces it would end up breaking into. This is an issue of State rights and just like it was in the 1860s this is an issue worth fighting for. We will either be the United STATES of America or we will break into several countries. I just don't see the Republic of America happening.
     
  35. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    I agree with some of what you say, but don't forget about yhe 150 million Hispanics, mostly Mexican communists in the country, who despise us, by the way, and don't forget that many Ehites hate themselves and other Whites and want to kill us off, and don't forget the Muslims who despise us, and don't forget that when the communists take over the government in mid-terms, immigration from Africa will EXPLODE by as much as 550%, and the spending and debt will increase and snap our spine. We are not in a good way.

    Plus, we are picking a fight with Putin. Watch for a false flag. It will be blamed on him. Then it's off to war again, to finish off Syria and Assad, and then off to Iran. If Russia gets directly involved, we are in serious trouble. Putin don't play.

    Better get off the couch, American White boy. Better turn off that TV and your idiotic sportsball games and get fit. Better vote in the mid-terms and get everyone you know to get on the ball and do it, too.

    Things aren't funny anymore.
     
  36. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Hispanics are somewhere around 52 million which is about 17% of the U.S. population. African-Americans are around 13%.

    Note that Hispanics have displaced blacks in many communities. One statistic that set me back on my heels was that Compton, a once >90% black community, is now only 33% black, with Hispanics now representing 65% of its population. Hispanic gangs are winning over black gangs.

    Here is a ten yr old report from a far-Left organization:
    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-...california-are-terrorizing-and-killing-blacks

    Gangs such as MS-13, out of El Salvador, are unimaginably violent.

    The MSM will not report this due to their wishing to flood the USA with pro-socialist voters. I expect to see all of Southern California eventually being owned by Hispanics / Latinos. Even "Conservative" Hispanics say that the SouthWest belongs to Hispanics.

    Texas is too sparsely populated by American citizens such that when Mexico has its next civil war, Texas will be overrun with millions of Mexicans attempting to escape the violence in their own country.

    America is breaking up and the rate at which this is happening will only increase.
     
  37. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    I trust zero from SPLC. Avoid them like the plague.

    America is definitely being broken up. The demographic is rapidly changing. Whites don't want to breed anymore, and the Third Worlders breed like rabbits. Not to mention the immigration, most of which also breeds like rabbits, and does not assimilate. Whites will be an insignificant minority in USA by 2050.

    Black on White crime is exploding across the country. White on Black crime is almost non-existent.

    All of these problems are not just magically happening, but is deliberate, and has been planned.

    Again, see the crisis in South Africa. It's reverse Apartheid! The whole "Rainbow Society" they were told was to become, has become a profusely bloody nightmare. That was mo accident, but was planned all along. Even the South African Parliament in Jan. 2018 voted to confiscate all land owned by Whites, without conpensation. The remaining 4.5 million Whites there are awaiting civil war and their inevitable genocide. Ref: www.suidlanders.org

    Western Europe is being seized by Islam. Sweden and Italy are on the brink of civil war, though I doubt anyone there has the stomach for that. They will succumb to Islam, no doubt. The rest of Europe will follow. Look to Eastern Europe for what will remain of Europe. Viktor Orban's Hungary and Poland are calling the Islamic Invasion of Europe what it is and refusing any "refugees" (they are not refugees, but Islamic militants). They still have a chance.

    The Democrats will undoubtedly increase Black immigration into the USA as soon as they take power again. This will be the end of US. Whites simply refuse to do anything about their situation, are in denial, or they are in league with their own genocide.

    I think the best places for Whites to tribe - up will be in some of the Western states and the Midwest. In the event of collapse or civil war, these areas will be a sort-of no-man's-land, with plenty of wide open space, smaller cities and populations, and far from invading armies. People could do well for themselves there.
     
  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I don't really see all of this in a black and white thing. I see it as a cultural issue. The reality is that at this time our government and the media are at the very least not discouraging the actions of violence in the black culture. Instead they make the violent element into cultural heroes. Even when the evedence is clear and indisputable the media will twist it and make it so the black violent criminal looks like the injured party.

    The riots and endless trouble over the black man that was shot in Ferguson Missouri is a typical example. The story the media told was that he was an unarmed innocent that was accosted by a cop and then shot down while he was surrendering with his hands over his head and his back to the officer. This story was told over and over despite the fact that everyone involved knew that none of it was true.The truth was that he was a drug infused monster that had just stolen something from a a convenience store. He and a friend were so messed up that they were evidently walking down the middle of the street. The cop saw him but had no idea that he had just robbed a store.

    He pulled up beside him thinking he was just another drunk or messed up kid and he basically told the kid to get his butt out of the street. He initially didn't recognize them as the petty criminals that had just been reported as stealing from the store. He started to pull away and then decided to question them or something and so balked up and rolled his window down. This infuriated the guy and he attacked the cop. They wrestled through the window with the black kid trying to choke the cop and get to his gun. There were shots fired in the car during the struggle and the young man decided to run.

    Just for a moment let me tell you a little about this kid. He has 18 recently graduated from High school. He was 6' 4”/193cm and weighed 290 lbs/131kg. That cop was out weighed and there was no way he wanted to fight this kid hand to hand.

    The cop bailed out of the car and fired warning shot ordering the kid to stop and surrender. Instead he evidently chose to turn and charge the cop and got shot. The STORY that the media spread was based on what they were told by people that WERE NOT THERE. His hands were not up and he was not shot in the back. The later autopsy verified this.

    The black on white thing that the media made up was all lies. The witnesses that were actually there were mostly black and their testimony also verified the cops statements. The fact is the kids was a violent criminal that had just committed a crime on a black owned business and the entire thing would have been exactly the same if the cop had been black as far as the violent attack on the cop and the final shooting.

    The media knew the facts but instead chose to interviw peole that weren't there and ignore the people that were there. The resulting riots and rioters were treated as justified reactions by good people that were under attack by the local cops.

    The media is great at ignoring and often just plain lying about the facts or at least hiding the facts. They will make a big deal out of how a young unarmed black being attacked and killed by cops in another racially motivated incident. What they won't tell you is that the cops involved and in charge of the incident were also black.

    Even when they are armed that will be put aside and the story made into a bad white cop innocent black just minding their own business. In one case the guy attacked two white cops. He was BIG and they were struggling with him. One of the cops shouted “He's got a gun!” and the other cop shot the guy. This guy was an often convicted felon so first off there is no way he should have had a gun. He attacked the cops on VIDEO. He was BIG and fighting them hard and it was not at all a controlled situation.

    The cop that shouted that he had a gun had felt it stuck in the guys pants. The other cop thought that he had it in hand and that he had seconds to save his partner or maybe himself or innocent bystanders. Once again the media turned this into a frenzy where white cops killed a poor unarmed, only in the sense that it wasn't in his hand, black guy.

    There really is a problem out there with the cops but it isn't so much a white on black thing as it is a not enough cops that are not paid enough nor held to a high enough standard. There is also a problem in the black culture that not only encourages violent and criminal behavior but also idolizes it. The droopy pants thing that they think is so cool...that is or was originally called jailin' because when they throw you in jail they take your belt and so you have to hold your pants up until you are processed and maybe eventually given jail clothing. Since the cops were going to take their belts anyway why bother to wear them?

    There is little shame when a young black goes to prison. The culture instead of placing this on their heads for their bad actions instead places it on the bad cops and white folks that are out to get them. If you think that black on white crime is bad you are misinformed the black on BLACK crime rates are massive! The media, the government and the black culture that they have encouraged accept this. When I was last in Los Angeles there were a couple of very young very innocent black children killed in drive by shootings. I was shocked that even though this was done basically in broad daylight nobody saw anything. Even worse to me was the attitude of the people about this. They call kids that are killed like this mushrooms. They accept that if something lives and grows up in shit that bad things happen to them. My GOD we are taking about little kids here!!

    The FACT is that the black or white criminal rates are basically tracable to the same people doing it over and over. Even when caught the government gives them so many rights that they are shortly back on the streets doing it again. If you have a hundred people and three of them commit a hundred felonies each the crime rate for that group may look awful but 97 of them may have never done anything. A lot of what you are seeing is a numbers game that the government and the media promote.

    The crime rate is not going to be controlled by making laws that mostly only are followed by regular non-criminal people. How cool do you think it would be if you got castrated as a result of any second felony conviction involving violence? How much damage could a criminal do if they were locked up for EVER if they were caught with a weapon after conviction of a violent crime?

    Liberals are freaking out right now because Trump has mentioned the death penalty for opiate drug sellers. This is or would be a law that would have no repercussions on good people...so liberals are against it. Let me tell you something. These drug sellers are serial killers!! Once you move above the bottom layer that is mostly junkies selling to other junkies to support their habit you move into a layor of people that are getting rich from killing people by the thousands!

    More later...
     
  39. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I'm not sure where you live but where I live we have lots and lots of people with hispanic connections and I assure you that they don't hate Anglos. They ARE Anglos. Texas is probably about 40% Hispanic and these people have been here for a long long time. I personally have friends that have familly roots here that go back 500 years. My familly has been here since before the Texas revolution and were Mexican citizens.

    What all this means is that the hispanic culture here in Texas is nothing like the one in California and other places. When Mexican comes to Texas they come here to work. We don't offer to put them on welfare and treat them like the prodigal son returned. I would say that almost half of my closest friends are Hispanic. Where I live being Hispanic is like being Italian or Irish....yeah cool...what does that have to do with anything.

    What you are doing is falling for the media sponsored lies making you think that the attitudes and actions of a small minority reflect the truth about an entire people.
     
  40. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    I know a lot of Hispanics like the ones you describe, too. They are Americans first. But there are plenty of the other kind, too--even in Texas--especially in Texas.

    But when push comes to shove, which it is, when survival is the name of the game, race always becomes a predominant issue. No matter how close you are to your friends of color, when the crap hits the fan--race matters. And race will win. When your friends of color smell your demise, they will turn on you in a heartbeat and join in with the winners to save their own hides. End of story.

    We have lost the demographic war. Whites are being replaced. That is simply a bald - faced fact, and there is nothing I can see that is going to turn that around. The war we are now in, this cold war, ideological war, will soon no longer be a war for 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment, the Bill of Rights, or for "God and Country"--or whatever--but a physical war for survival. Americans have not yet been stripped of their weapons, as they have in Western Europe, nor have they yet become an insignificant minority soon to be genocide as they have in South Africa, but we are headed in that direction. They will create the crisis they need to finally snatch up all the guns, and the First Amendment, our history, etc., is rapidly being put to sleep forever, especially on the Internet. There is no longer any time for denial or feel-good talk. We fight or die. We can no longer win through numbers. We are being bred out of existence, and we are financing our own demise along the way. Pure and simple. We're about as stupid as they come. https://knightstemplarinternational.com/2018/03/going-lose-country-new-report-shows-exactly-video/ Keep a close eye on the South Africa situation for a perfect example of what is going to happen soon in Western Europe and eventually in the United States. Once the communists take power, the floodgates of immigration will open full-throttle and the Africans and Mexicans will pour in by the millions, unvetted, unchecked, and you will house, feed, and educate them (just like you are right now, only many millions more) while your children are being raped, beaten, tortured, pimped-out, and killed by them, just like they are at this moment in South Africa and Western Europe. This is your present and your future.

    We have also lost on the political front. Trump, if he does make it to the end of his term, which he probably will not, will not be reelected. The communists will take the midterm elections, make it virtually impossble for him to get anything done, and follow through with impeachment proceedings. And, from the look of things, we are about to be dragged into another catastrophic war. Our globalist masters are unhappy with Putin's success in Russia and in Syria and with the crushing of ISIS. They will manufacture the right crisis, the usual false flag, and we will soon be at war again. Our arrogance, our belief in our invincibilty will be our downfall. Western Europe, too. They are picking a fight with the wrong Russian. No doubt about that. And Iran has got to go down, too. They have wanted Iran for a long time, and will not stop until they get her; Israel demands it. And what Israel wants from us--Israel gets, slaves! Get used to it and get back to work! Plus, the Congress has pushed through, and Trump signed the 1.3 trillion dollar spending spree. So, the taxpayers are on the hook for that now, too. Yikes! We're in a pickle! Trump is also beating the war drum against Russia! He is joining in with Western Europe on the false poisoning narrative against them, among other things. They finally got Trump under control. It took almost two years to do it, but he's finally playin' ball! They had to give him some free reign in the beginning of his presidency to keep his base behind him for support for what is to come. Done deal.

    I am fifty three years old. Whatever I thought my life was going to be about in my later years is all but gone out the window. Forget about "retirement", kids. That's gone. Done. It's over. There isn't going to be any retirement. If we have any children or grandchildren, we will be spending whatever we have left, and it ain't much, giving it over to them in hopes they might be able to carry on.

    So, tribe up, Whites. You're deperately going to need it. Put away your feel-good nonsense and your denial, face reality and facts, and buckle down for a rough, rough ride. Realize that race does matter, and the colored people, most of them, despise you. Separate from them and refuse to support them in any way. You are being used.

    The only way to win now is through civil war and bloodshed. And we won't be able to fight that without guns. If we relinquish our weapons--there is ZERO hope. So, no matter what they do in the coming months to try and get the guns, no matter how many school children they kill, no matter what--don't give them up! Stockpile them! Get hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo! All you can get! Even if you don't shoot, buy guns and ammo and hide them for those who do.

    Get up, get moving, lose weight, get fit, get off the big-pharma dope, the weed, the wine & cheese, turn off the TV and get your arse off that couch! You got a long, long way to go! And it ain't gonna be easy!
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  41. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    A Hispanic is NOT a different race. They may be a different nationality but that doesn't make them a different race any more than being English, Polish or Italian does. Most Mexicans don't WANT to come to the US. The ones that cause the problems that make the numbers seem so high have been here and deported MANY times. If you have 100 people and 10 of them sneak in and get deported 5 times each the NUMBERS would indicate that 100 people resulted in 50 deportation BUT that does not mean that Half of them were illegal aliens at one time or another. 90% of this group had no interest in coming here.

    Don't trust numbers that you don't know the entire background to. The politicians on the right are just as bad as the ones on the left at using padded and intentionally misinterpreted statistical numbers to make points. The REAL numbers are out there but they are forbidden. I'll give you one serious example. The general thing you will hear is that more blacks are shot by cops than whites. First off that is not even CLOSE to true there are many many more white people shot by cops than there are black people shot by cops. This is simply because black people are only a poultry 13% of the American population. The net level of this says that percentage wise though more blacks get shot than whites when you allow for the population difference.

    Well this is sort of true but there is another interesting number that is NEVER mentioned or talked about. How many people are shot while either committing a crime or during an attempted arrest. When you run those numbers something strange shows up. Percentage wise if you commit a crime and are arrested and you are white you are much more likely to get shot than if you are black. Basically cops are scared to shoot black these days because during the Obamma administration you were better off letting them shoot you before you shot them. Even when they were armed and fighting if they got shot it could cost you your career or worse land you a dead cop in prison. White committing crimes or resisting arrest are over twice as likely to get shot than black persons. The reason for the original impression that a greater percentage of blacks were shot is simple. They commit more crimes. 25% of all black males will spend some serious time in jail by sentencing while the number for white males is less than 10%.

    I love statistics. I get a thing called "A statistical abstract of America" every few years this is a compilation of EVERYTHING gathered by any branch of our government that is public record or recently declassified and a lot of other stuff from things like actuarial tables from insurance companies. It weighs like 8 pounds and is the size of a NYC telephone book!

    Most black people are good hard working people and the percentage that aren't is unfortunately high but still not a number to be afraid of. We are talking about 12% of 13% of our population. The numbers for people of hispanic origins is only slightly higher than that of another caucasian nationality. It is higher but you don't know how many of those are not legal aliens AND in the USA all it takes for you to be hispanic is for you to have a NAME that sounds hispanic.

    I had a very good friend that was very german and he was pissed because they forced him to register his kids in school as hispanic. 12 generations in the past a Spaniard with the last name of Zavala moved to Germany. 12 German generations later this 6' 230 pound blond haired blue eyed german boy was suddenly hispanic as were his blond haired blue eyed children.

    To some extent I'm hispanic because at one time before they were Americans my ancestors were Mexican citizens. My Scott/Irish/English/Viking ancestors came to Texas and then after being mexicans then Texicans then Texans finally became Americans. I often write Texican as national origin when asked on applications just for fun. You just can't even come close to classifying Hispanic/Spanish/Mexican as a specific race. Hispanics are like Americans and come in all colors.

    PS: Like you, 30 years ago I was positive that there would never be a retirement for me. Guess what? There was and it is GREAT!! They pay us not to work now. I draw a teachers retirement from the state and my Social Security and my Wife draws a great retirement from her 25 years working in prison and next year she will get on Social security and all together we will be making more money not working than we actually did through a lot of our 43 years of married life. I like being prepared and have been in it seriously for over 40 years. One thing that you all need to guard against is this...

    DON'T LET YOUR WORRIES ABOUT A POSSIBLE TOMORROW STEAL YOUR JOY FOR TODAY!!!

    All bull piles aside things are pretty good right now if you have a little distance from the pest heaps they call major urban complexes. If you are young you don't have to worry about getting drafted and having your balls blown off while fighting for someone else's freedom that doesn't like you anyway. At least now if you get your balls blown off fighting for someone else's freedom that doesn't like you you VOLUNTEERED for it. I've lived through double digit inflation and a recession that shut down every place that I had EVER worked. I lost a home and have been close to being homeless twice. Believe me, things are pretty damn good right now. Enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  42. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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  43. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    You can't fix stupid. Trying to will just make them mad and stupider. Spanish people are caucasian. There are 4 or 5 races, and that is all. caucasian, mongoloid or asian, negroid or black and australoid. Caucasian covers all of the peoples native to Europe in an anthropological sense.
     
  44. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. 200%.

    It is hilarious with some of the Hispanics I meet when I explain to them their language comes from Spain. For many of them the thought simply never occurred to them. Nor do they realize their ancestors raped, pillaged, and exploited their way through the South, Central, and part of North America, too, just the same as the English, Dutch, and French did across the rest of North America. This never occurs to them. They consider themselves, "Indigenous" people.

    I live with Hispanics and Blacks. I am the minority in my part of town. The racism is thick here, and getting worse with every day that passes. Las Vegas is considered a "diverse" city. This simply translates into: no Whites allowed. It amazes me how much the city has changed in only the last three years. I used to get along fine with everyone, but now they are amping up the racism in the media and firing up the cultural/race war. "Whitey's gotta go", they say. Everything is changed now, for the worse.

    As for me, I am soon to leave all this wonderful "diversity" and cultural enrichment behind. I am heading for highter ground. Literally. Going to a place 95% White, much cooler, and high up in the pines. This Las Vegas heat has fried everyone's brains. They can have it all to themselves. Glad I am unworthy of them. Lol. And when Whitey is all gone, the Hispanics and Blacks can start in on themselves, and each other, as they do already anyway.

    I was never taught to behave like this. I know better. I refuse to live with it. Stupid. I have never been racist in my entire life. I am even married to a foreigner. But they have pulled the race card on me once too often. Sick of hearing their racism. I have no Black or Hispanic friends anymore. Don't want any. With friends like this, who needs enemies?

    Oh, and speak of the devil, as I write this, miles of Hondurans are fleeing their failed state through Mexico to bust into the USA for free housing, welfare, and education. It will be interesting to see whst happens with all of them! https://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflor...d-for-the-us?utm_term=.myMwMeAmAR#.cfbon6q9q1

    And, on another sour note, the White genocide in South Africa is literally about to begin, full on. The Blacks are shutting down all communications, Internet and telephone, for Whites, and the ethnic cleansing is about to start:
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
    Old Geezer likes this.
  45. Blackfish

    Blackfish Well-Known Member
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    Well, this is it, kids. Goodbye, America. If Fed Judge Martinez gets his "asylum" ruling to stick, hundreds of thousands more will pour into the United States behind these Hondurans, from all over South A., Central A., and Mexico.

    And behind them will come the Africans.

    We're done.

    All of this was planned during the Obama years. Hillary was to carry it out. But Trump slowed them down a bit. They are going ahead with their plans now to spite America and Trump.

    Might as well load up your car and your guns and go Mad Max for a while. Have some fun on the way out.

    Empires are good for only about two hundred fifty years anyway. This one's about run its course. Time to shut 'er down.

    I'm off to the mountains. Enjoy your new neighbors. Lol.

    https://splinternews.com/a-refugee-caravan-is-headed-to-the-u-s-and-getting-big-1824087413

    https://m.facebook.com/PuebloSF/
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
  46. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    There may be a bit of hope in the Heartland.
    In the megalopolises, there is none.
    Godspeed Blackfish in your relocation to the mountains / safer environs!
    If you have children and grandchildren, may God's Light guide and protect them also.
     
  47. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    For some years now the left has been trying to gin up a civil war in this country by gining up division on any and every front they can manufacture.

    I am very well aware of their techniques between investing heavily for years and years now..in "The Victim Dictum" where everyone they prefer is a "Victim" and therefore everyone else must needs shut up and move over to let these "Victim Groups" proceed ahead of everyone else while everyone else pays for them on the public breast.

    This is a form of bondage....making people pay twice or more...once for themselves and their families and again for somoene else.

    Obama Care was the same bondage formula...pay for yourself and your families ...and then again for those who could not afford it. It was bondage ...involuntary servitude.


    The left in this country have found ways to put the average American into bondage to support one after another "Victim Groups" on the public purse for votes.

    The Womens Groups, the LGBT Groups, the blacks and now Hispanics...more and more and more predictable "Victimization " for "Votes."

    After awhile you can see them coming.


    And you begin to realize that this pattern of Division is the very best that the left and their proxies ...the Democrat Party and their helpers in the phony conservative Republican party have ....Division.

    They have become predictable.


    This is exactlly why the left is using and misusing these public school kids as cannon fodder to accelerate their gun control programs....this too has become predictable over time.

    But at some level I believe many more Americans are catching on to the left and the phony right in how they will misuse any and everyone to promote their false Anti American platforms of control and return to Absolute Power over a nation and people.

    But will it be enough....and in time.

    I am often want to say the 9/11 people hit the wrong target. They needed to knock out the MSM all across this country and done us all a favor.

    Too many Ishmaelites running amok in this country. Taking the subatance From working Americans and giving it to others has become the major past time for both politic parties.
    In short these phony political parties have been working constantly and steadily to divide this nation and it's people and while trying top subsidize others for their votes.

    This is exactly what happened in Ancient Rome...and made them vulnurable to outside influences.


    My non Ishmaelie thoughts,

    Watcherchris.
     
  48. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    A lot of different views here to sift through, too many for me to reply to individually. So I will simply comment on the state of gun control here in Australia.
    There has been a lot on the news of late re the latest shootings in the USA, & the mention of doing it the "Australian way"!!! The gun confiscation here did NOTHING to stop crime, & it never will. In my opinion the Port Arthur massacre was orchestrated with the government's knowledge if not in fact by the government itself! Our government is totally corrupt to the core, & is now too powerful to stop unless the majority of people physically stop it. That will never happen.
    They have banned all semi-auto guns & rifles, plus pump action shotguns. Hand guns can only be owned through pistol club membership which is expensive & time consuming & you can only use your handgun on the pistol club range. This includes all types of muzzle-loading pistols!
    In conjunction with the above gun control is is illegal to use a firearm for self defence or in the defence of your family. Not only this, but it is now illegal to own, purchase or carry ANYTHING for use in self defence! Only in West Australia is it legal to use pepper spray. They say that crime is down since the confiscation, but I don't believe it. Every day there is news of rapes, bashings, car jackings, or murder. People are getting shot & knifed. We are not allowed to carry ANY type of knife in a public place unless it is work related. Farmers can not defend themselves against wild boar or wild cattle or dog attacks when working on the land unless they have a legal rifle or shotgun on them at the time. This is not always possible . We have lost our right to use semi-auto .22s, bunny guns. One can hardly call these assault rifles, but the government has labeled them such.

    As a matter of interest, the assault type rifle that was used in the Port Arthur massacre was in fact in police custody before the shootings. The guy they fingered for this shooting was immediately locked in solitary confinement with no visitors, & as far as we know he is still there. Neighbors say he did not own guns of his own. There NEVER has been a coronal investigation.

    I have been following the shootings in the USA, & frankly they stink of corruption! Official reports DO NOT match those comments made by witnesses. This goes back a long way & I think our government has done the same thing to manipulate the public & bring about the gun confiscation & the later gun control measures.

    Do we have a right? Perhaps not a right to own a gun unless we are found to be sound & safe, but we should have the right to self defence, we should have the right to defend our families in the increasing number of home invasions. We should have the right to own & use muzzle-loading pistols on a non restrictive licence, & land owners should have the right to carry hand guns on their own property.
    Keith.
     
  49. watcherchris

    watcherchris Expert Member
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    From Keith H..and his OP above,

    Keith and others,

    There has already been a Civil War going on in America and for many years now. Most Americans raised on a steady diet of television and movies by which to falsely define their lives....have not a clue that this is going on or that it has happened.

    I began to figure it out over 30 years ago when I bought my first shortwave set at a "Boot Sale."

    I hooked it up with an olde copper wire antenna as was done in our fathers time...and began to tune in the world when foreign stations would broadcast in English.

    I began the slow and laborious process of learning how heavy a paper curtain existed over a supposedly free people.

    I also began to back this up, what I learned via Hams and short wave listening , with extensive reading...not watching television and movies.

    Don't get me wrong here...I do watch television and movies but now also have the knowledge to dissect them much better than in those early days.

    This Civil War is for the minds and souls of the people of this nation.

    What someone here and in other countries has done is substituted "Amusements" for thinking for ones self.


    A......Without

    Muse...to think , ponder , or contemplate

    Amuse ....Amusement....Amusements.

    Something fed to us to prevent thinking.

    Got it now!!!!????

    This is how to fold , spindle, or alter reality among a people who do not know and do not think for themselves..and are just simply unaware. Zombies....walking dead.
    Living in a altered state of consciousness....and swear they are the cats meow....everything that is happening....of any importance.



    Television and movies will do our thinking for us if we consciously or unconsciously allow it. Also if we do not know sufficient history to contrast and compare what is happening around us to history past.


    " Any people for whom a government will not trust to be armed......will also not be trusted with a vote"

    That is the conclusion to which I have arrived by a read of history...simple common sense.

    In America we are rapidly reaching the point where we cannot be trusted....

    With our monies

    With our Religion

    With our own children.

    With our properties..and money is also a property.

    With our Opinions and thoughts

    And of course with Guns.


    The goal here is to properly and politically/socially Herd Americans as are the people of many nations in this world....Subjects with privileges granted by the Soverign....and not Citizens with rights granted by God.

    If I recall correctly going back to English Common Law.....people have a basic right to protect their persons.

    This seems to have been reversed in your country under "Intellect and Enlightenment."
    The World Religion!!

    Someone here wants to make us as Americans ....subjects of the Sovereign ...not citizens with rights granted by God.


    If you know this history in this country and how it came about .....you will know of what I list above and be able to follow it as a phony body politic operates to make us just such subjects with privileges granted by the sovereign. A phony news media as well.....shilling for that same body politic. And in like manner ...a phony education system working to seduce our children to this ersatz system.


    Oh..and while we hear little about what is happening or happened down under....we are hearing aplenty about what a disaster is occurring in Crime in England....and particularly in London. IN Sweden and other European countries as well....as the two legged wildlife is allowed and encouraged to run amok in these countries......and even preying on their children.

    For I know that this same pattern is what is planned for here in America....but first they must needs remove our guns.....so that we become vulnerable like so many in other subject nations....subjects with privileges granted by the sovereign and not citizens with rights given by God.

    This is how an Ishmaelite works...to put people into bondage....involuntary servitude..
    To do this they must institute policies which turn things around backwards...to a 180 degree flip flop..in how things work.
    This kind of backwards policy making puts more power in the hands of government and whoever is the "secret government" and away from the people.

    This kind of flip flop has another name for those trained to spot it....for what it is.

    That name is "Demonic" because of the fruit it will produce.......Chaos.

    And this pattern/line of thought is covered up...hidden... by a compliant news media and also a compliant public education system.


    My .02,
    Watcherchris.
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  50. PriscillaKing

    PriscillaKing Expert Member
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    Raza literally means root; "Dia de la Raza" is Roots Day when people celebrate differences among towns' or families' traditions, not "race" in the "five/four/three color types" sense.
     
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