herein the usa what gun to buy ?

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by Tom Williams, Aug 30, 2016.

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  1. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    buying a weapon for survival what to buy ??? with many makes calibers to choose 1 buy the best you can afford 2 buy something made in usa 3 buy a caliber you can shoot comfortly 3 buy a caliber that is common a good weapon will last a lifetime if you buy a caliber that you cant shoot multi times without hurting yourself. what good will it be. why made in usa. parts to fix if needed common round ammo easier to find a ak made in china parts and ammo. hard to get morenlikely than a. common 12g made in usa
     
  2. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Supposing I was in the USA my first gun would be a handgun either a Beretta92 of some sort or a long slide Glock 17L or similar both would be 9mm only!
    Next would be a long heavy barrelled AR15 type in the standard 5.56! and third would be a AA-12 12g!
    AND CRATES AND CRATES OF AMMO!
    Possible fourth gun if urban would be a suppressed Ruger 10/22

    Covers just about everything except long range sniping
     
  3. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Laws on firearm ownership in the U.S. vary from state to state. Keep that in mind. In Indiana you can walk into a gun store, buy a gun and walk out with it. In Illinois you walk into a gun store, buy the gun and have to wait for several days before you can take possession of it. In Illinois you also have to have a valid FOID card, a Firearms Owner Identification card, issued to you by the State of Illinois, before you can handle, possess, shoot or own ANY firearm. So if or when you move to the U.S. check your local firearms laws very carefully.

    Now, as to which firearms to own for survival purposes....

    Rifles: The best rifles are those which are scoped. The rifle does not need a fancy, long range sniper scope. A simple tactical scope or red dot scope will enhance your overall shooting accuracy and that is what you're looking to do: improve your shooting accuracy a bit. So a simple 4X scope (4 power magnification) will work wonders. This is like what the SUSAT and ACOG tactical scopes have done for the British and American military forces.

    The two most popular survival rifles are the AK and M-4 style rifles. The AK in 7.62 X 39 caliber is a medium caliber type survival rifle that is very reliable in bad situations. The M-4 carbine is a .223/5.56 type survival/military style firearm, that needs to be kept clean, that has a longer reach and better accuracy than the AK. Both rifles work well depending on where you plan to be operating and what you want them to do for you. In a dirty environment think AK. In a situation where down time is available to you on occasion, think M-4/AR rifle. But no matter what, think of mounting a scope on whatever rifle you get.

    For pistols, the most popular handgun over here is the Glock family of guns. The two most popular are the Glock 17 and Glock 19. You'll often see guys refer to these pistols as the G-17 and G-19. Another caliber which is popular over here is the .40 S&W which means that the Glock 22 (G-22) is also a fairly popular handgun too. SOCOM (Special Operations COMmand) in Florida just allowed its Special Operations people to go to the G-19 pistol if they want to do so for military operations. G-17 pistols hold 17 rounds in their magazines and 1 in the chamber which is why they are so popular. When you have 18 rounds of diplomacy ready to go, that's not a bad thing for an emergency which explains why they're so popular over here.

    Once you get here, you can also order ammo by the thousand round case and have it delivered to your home or apartment. You order it off the internet, pay for it and it gets delivered to you by special shippers.

    Any firearms that you plan to use should be backed up by a good sheath knife of some sort. I suggest a Kabar or Becker knife for those up close and personal events.

    After you have the basics filled in, then you might want to buy a second pistol that matches your first one. The idea behind this move is that you have a second handgun available for close range combat when things go bad for you. This second handgun also gives you the edge if your first handgun jams or fails you for some reason. Some of our old west gunfighters were known to carry more than one handgun because they knew handguns were more likely to jam or malfunction than other guns. Doc Holliday of the Shootout at the O.K. Corral was known to carry as many as 3 handguns and 3 knives on his person on a normal day. If he expected trouble, Doc was known to carry MORE guns. On the day he got into the shootout at the O.K. Corral he had his 3 guns and a Greener 10 gauge shotgun. So, keep this in mind for your survival ideas.
     
  4. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    The nice thing about an AR is that with 1 lower, you can use several different uppers for different situations. Even different calibers. The different calibers available can cover home defense, varmint hunting, and even big game hunting. It really is a gun for all seasons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  5. mrfred

    mrfred Member
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    I am 70. I have been around all types of weapons in and out of the military. What I tell people, buy a inexpensive pump 12 gauge shotgun. Use #4 buckshot (27 pellets). Buy some #71/2 shot and you're good for small game and bird hunting.
     
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  6. Steve J

    Steve J New Member
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    Out of all the weapons to forget, how about the pistol the usa military has used for about 100 years... colt 1911... 45 acp
     
  7. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    The 1911 and the .45acp cartridge do not offer any advantages over other platforms or calibers with modern bullets. If you are partial to that platform and caliber, I can't argue with that.
     
  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I'll skip the shotgun. Everyone knows that you can purchase multiple barrels for a pump shotgun to cover multiple purposes -- squirrels to deer.

    I'll skip the center-fire handgun. We can argue all day/week/year as to what action and what caliber.

    As to rifles, allow me to make a couple of suggestions:

    Rimfire, everybody knows the .22 long rifle in target loads and in high velocity loads. How about the .22 CB cap? How about the .22 without any powder at all? The latter only has the primer. How about a .22 with a 60 grain sub-sonic bullet? When it hits the fan and you are dropping small game or wounding arsonists, do you really want to be heard?! Do you wish to advertise from whence you are shooting?! I'll answer that. No!

    Open a window and shoot from the back of that room with subsonic ammo and the amount of noise you'll make will be minimal. I've heard the firing pin hit the primer, yet not hear the muzzle report. For this ammo, one will not be able to cycle the action of a semi-automatic, so use a bolt-action or a pump. The Winchester gallery rifle and the Rossi copy of that pump rifle will cycle .22 short cases.

    As to a center-fire rifle round that covers the territory from varmints at distance to whitetail deer, the .243 Winchester and its 6mm brethren (include .257 Roberts) are just the ticket. Note that the .243 case can be made from necked-down .308 / 7.62 NATO brass. I'd also place the 6.5 Swedish in this category -- what a great round! OK, so I'm a devotee of the .308, however I don't need a heavy bullet to get the job done on whitetail-sized game. Too, the .30 cal. bullets often do not have the superb sectional density of the 6mm boys. Here in the USA, bullets smaller than 6mm/.243 are forbidden for deer hunting; plus of course are full metal jacketed bullets. The .243 is also a great rifle for women deer hunters, this in that the recoil is negligible.
     
  9. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    If you are talking about bolt action rifles alone, then I can't argue the point. I have a Thompson TCR and several barrels for it. I really wish that part the plant didn't burn down because I would have another dozen barrels for it. Anyway, I own barrels in .223(modified to wylde), .308, .260 (6.5), .243, .270, 7.62x39. The 260 is the most impressive with all things considered, reach, recoil, ballistics coefficient, and sectional density. The thing is, if you own an AR-10, you can have it barreled into any caliber based off the .308. As to the AR-15 my favorite chambering is the 6.5 Grendel. Ballistically it gives the .308 a run for its money.
     
  10. SurvivingPrepper

    SurvivingPrepper New Member
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    Take a look at the Sig Sauer P320. It is the new US Military side arm. Very modular and accurate. Easy to switch between (and not too expensive) a .45 ACP, .357 Sig, 9mm and a .40.
     
  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If I was limited to one gun it would be a good 12 ga pump shotgun. I like Mossberg 500s and the Remington 870s. It can be used for game from birds and rabbits to a Moose. Inside of 50 yards it is deadly with buck shot for defense use and with slugs you can reach out to at least 100 yards. They are tough and one shot stoppers in close quarters. The

    AR in 5.56 just isn't as useful for but one thing. and while I like them, a handgun takes a lot of practice to be worthwhile and is even less useful than an AR for hunting. I know, you CAN kill a deer with a 5.56 but you can also do it with a 22lr. An AR throws 30 .22 caliber bullets down range when you dump an entire magazine. A 12 ga with #4 Buck does the same with every pull of the trigger. Each weapon has its place to shine but almost nothing is as versatile as the 12ga shotgun.
     
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  12. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    I can't argue with that logic, especially since i own a Mossy 500. One thing i will add to that is the Aguilla short shotgun shells will cycle in the Mossy 500. The means you can increase the capacity of your Mossy by 50%.
     
  13. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I agree, those short shells are nice. I have a bunch of them I bought at a gun show. They are 6 shot and work fine on bunny and squirrel size critters.
     
  14. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Short shells ???12g Shells are 2 3/4. 3 3 1/2 inches useing wrong ammo in gun is bad dangerous . old 12 g made for paper shells are 2 9/16 in very hard to find old single shot 12g are chambered in 3in or 2 3/4 placeing. A3 1/2in in these is not safe what is safe to fire in a gun is clearly stamped on barrel of gun yes 3in chamber can fire 2 3/4 in shell safelyWHAT IS A SHORT SHELL ?
     
  15. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    Dude, get with the program, Aguilla short shells are 1.75 inches long. they are modern shells for modern guns, i.e. not Damascus barrels. Just google the company Aguilla!
     
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  16. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I see no advantage of a light load less powder and shot when a proper 2 3/4 shell does the job well right ammo for the job over kill destroys too light injures
     
  17. sarky

    sarky Expert Member
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    Until you've tried these shells, you have no basis for comparison. I have used them in the field in Maine and they work great for wood grouse, bunnies and squirrel. Also for home defense, at the ranges you will be engaging an intruder, the buck shot or slug are more than adequate.
     
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  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Another nice thing about them is they are smaller and you can carry a lot more of them if you have to make a run in a bug out situation. Their smaller size and lighter recoil is a nice plus for some things. There is NO commercially available 12 ga 2 3/4" load that is comparable. They are VERY safe and the fact is some people have been making home load versions of them for at least 40 years that I know of. All you have to do is cut a plastic shell off short and load it light. It is a lot like using those reducing liners that lets you shoot a 410 in a 12 ga except the choke works and they have a lot better patterns. Lets be honest, using a 12ga to hunt bunnies and tree rats is a massive case of overkill. I learned to hunt with a 20 ga and basically only use 12 ga for buck shot, slugs and geese. I use a 410 more often for hunting than I use a 12 ga.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    With all the ammo available for the 20ga., that gauge fills the turf that used to belong to the 16ga. With sabot slugs and rifled shotgun barrels, the 20ga. is now a great short-range "rifle". Go online and search for deer hunting videos showing the "little" 20ga in action. Dead is dead. A 20ga slug is significantly more powerful than a .44 mag. and dumps more energy into the animal. If your deer is behind a masonry wall -- maybe scoping you out with his binoculars -- you can put a 20ga brass sabot round through that wall and drop Mr. Buck.

    Too much power = ruined meat.
     
  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    A 20 ga 3" mag has the same lead load as a 2 3/4" 12 ga load. That is what I used for ducks before that got so weird and I quit hunting them. The new 12 ga loads have gone from 3" to 3 1/2" and are insane. They are trying to get steel to do what a much smaller load of lead used to do. I've known two older men that messed up their shoulders trying to shoot those 3 1/2" mag load. When you are pass shooting duck you don't always get to shoot from a good position and if you let the stock ride up it can seperate your shoulder. This is mostly something that happens to older guys...I'm one of those and already know that I can't shoot like I used to.
     
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  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    A friend of mine let me fire his 3 1/2" chambered twelve with 3 1/2" buck, it wasn't apocalyptic in severity at all. Only if one were small-framed or if one suffered from osteoporosis would it be an issue to fire such. His shotgun was a pump and seemed really lightweight. The shotgun hurt him, however he wasn't holding the weapon's butt up against his shoulder properly when he touched off a round. Too, he was ridiculously skinny at the time. Me, I'm 200 lb, wide shoulders, thick-ish meaty chest, but certainly not as muscular as the monster German heavy laborers on my dad's side of the family. Plenty of men would have absolutely no trouble with this sort of recoil. Big, hard-working farm boys = no recoil problems. One of my sons is getting scary-looking strong.

    Y'know, if you are pass-shooting, quickly put the shotgun to your shoulder, but screw-up and put the butt up against your collar bone or out past the shoulder onto your femur, wow, now that is going to be unpleasant! And for an older person with calcium issues, that could definitely do physical damage to the body. I've heard horror stories about women who have fired heavy-recoiling weapons handed to them by some stupid cruel men -- facial stitches, dislocations, and one recoil shot to the chest from a flip of a magnum handgun with light trigger around to point at her own self (bullet went between the clavicle and scapula, but down her back muscles and out -- thank God not inside her thoracic cavity).

    I see such things as being useful for long range goose hunting. And as to 3 1/2" slug loads, gosh, I guess if you are going after Hogzilla, psycho attack-moose, or Cape Buffalo ... .

    http://www.fieldandstream.com/photo...lving-mystery-behind-latest-giant-boar#page-4
     
  22. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    I won a ulti mag 12g years ago it fast became my favorite shotgun it came with both a smooth bore and a rifled barrel i will soon be 67 and have no issue useing any round in it but as a kneehigh kid i learned how to use and swing a shotgun training and use off is important in all firearms use to the point it becomes instict
     
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  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I'm 6' 2" and built big like about 240 now. I'm also 64 and have osteoporosis and already have two replaced hips. It really sucks. At one point I was bench pressing a little over 300 and could curl a couple hundred pounds. Maybe I would have been better off NOT doing that sort of thing LOL. I also at one time had a FFL and did/do gunsmith work and shot every sort of canon that I could get my hands on. My right shoulder is about done in and I really don't want to rush it. I was raised in in duck and goose country on the Texas Gulf Coast. Pass shooting can be tough on you. I had a friend once that thought a 10 ga might help him reach out and touch the high flying geese one season. He SOLD that beast before the season was over. All you young guys out there need to enjoy the rough life while you can. Age slips up on all of us if we live long enough and it isn't always a lot of fun. I didn't worry about it at all. I was of the "Live FAST ride HARD and die young and leave a pretty corpse " sort of philosophy back in my days. ROTFLMAO. I rode bulls, broke horses and crashed several motorcycles. I still like the woods and live in them but my desire to kill has waned as I got older. Now I fish a lot but other than nuance animals like hogs I let the critters mostly alone. Remember this, nothing hurts or harms you...until it DOES and then it is too late.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  24. woodchipper518

    woodchipper518 Expert Member
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    The facts I followed:

    - Anything in 9mm that you will commit to learning to shoot. Glock, S&W, Springfield, Sig Sauer, Baretta - brands that I have confidence in
    - 12g pump - self defense but useful for hunting too. low-recoil 12g buck shot and 7 1/2 shot for bird hunting
    - 22LR - Ruger 10/22 or Remington 597 rifle. Good for small game.
    - .223/5.56 - rifle. Don't buy a cheap version you typically find on sale. This may save you or your family's lives.

    Optional
    - 7.62x39 - AK rifle. After you run out of ammo killing all the infidels you can pick up their magazines and keep killing the 2nd wave of infidels.
    - .308 - bolt action. This weapon can reach out and touch others in a very personal way. Get a great scope as it is ideal for hunting anything big.

    I recommend suppressing everything if you have the $$ but especially if the Hearing Protection Act passes.
     
  25. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    Do you understand the meaning of the word 'infidel'?
     

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