House Boats; Well Prepared Prepper Ones

https://sofrep.com/news/forget-bunkers-this-mansion-yacht-is-a-preppers-dream/


Good afternoon all,

I decided to place this here rather than Members' private section because ideas can be gleaned from this article.

Plus, no need for a water bed.

 

I don't wan't to be inside that thing (whatever that is) during any SHTF. I prefer to be within a nominally functional 40 footer or larger trawl boat than any of that aluminium or fiberglass superyacht

 

What Varuna said.

However I do like the idea of the yacht having stilts. The yacht would have to have stronger hull and bullet-proof windows (just for hell-storms). Is the yacht ocean-going? On a lake, even a Great Lake, you are going to get visitors, even if they are only visitors / looky-loo people. "Hey, that's a pretty ship you got there!"

I'd rather have a decommissioned military vessel. If you look at the prices, the rich or a group of co-investors could buy these. One would have to calculate repair costs, which would vary greatly depending on age of ship and wear'n'tear during its service.

Here are some ships for sail. Even though I'm a landlubber, I found some of these ships to be fascinating. I searched only for service ships, military and rescue. Many prepper folks' military service was in the Navy, so these links may interest them. Great pipe-dreams anyway.

?Anyone who can translate Swedish technical manuals?
https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-military-ship/615396

?Again, can you translate Swedish technical manuals?
https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-military-ship/506311

Here's an Ausie ship out of N.Zealand for $195,000 -- the photos show what appears to be a refurbished ship, however who knows how old the photos. Me, I know absolutely nothing about ships, but I find this vessel adorable and robust. Has crane for moving cargo -- would be a great aid if still functional. Room on deck to mount some Ma Deuce friends of yours.
Pacific Island Trader / Small Cargo Ship
https://au.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-cargo-ship/610872

Maybe one could militarily harden a fishing charter boat?
https://au.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-charter-boat/548913

Japanese-built patrol boat
https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-patrol-boat/583117

Found a stack of patrol boats for sale, however many do NOT have steel hulls. On the flip side, they are FAST!
https://commercial.apolloduck.com/b...rol-boat?next=10&sort=0&fx=USD&limit=10&cid=8

From Finland
http://www.seaboats.net/34m-day-pax-explorer-vessel.-xidp1441186.html

"Her Hold was transformed to a saloon." Was Norwegian Gov. service vessel, multi-purpose. Fought North Sea conditions. Billed as still being very sea-worthy. I love its look. Has crane for cargo transfer.
http://www.seaboats.net/military-patrol-rescue-xidg45997.html

Ex Royal Navy fleet tender
https://www.boats.com/power-boats/1...et-tender-5626874/?refSource=standard listing

I'll stop there. That was fun. What neat ships are availble! Ships built for hard-use, hellish weather, even military service are available along with the equipment to refurbish them. These are the ONLY ships I would consider were I rich prepper. Say you want luxury, have that done in the ship's interior. For security during pre-SHTF, one would have to go Class-III.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/2503/group-industries-class-iiinfa-m2-50-cal-hvy-mg

 

You don't need as much armouring (if any) for sea going vessel as much as land based vehicle. A typical sea going commercial vessel survival rely in having multiple layer of redundancy, there is always a backup of any critical system, which is the main reason modern surface combatant only have Kevlar or Dyneema liner at critical spots. Having thick armouring such as WW2 era battle wagon is no longer relevant in modern naval warfare. And if your intention is to withstand small arm fire, than adding sandbags alongside the taffrail will suffice.

For sea based homesteading I stay as far away from any ex-military vessel. A "demilitarized" vessel mean she have so much wear and tear alongside miles-of-miles of unused cabling remnant from what used to be her comm system, or if it's surface combatant cabling remnant of her former CMS (Combat Management System) related system. All ex naval vessel either went to become museum, scraped, or for SINKEX (Sink Exercise)

A converted fishing vessel or freighter has more potential to be used for sea based homesteading due to their versatility.

Only those 2 (quoted above) are good enough for ocean passage (albeit slightly underpowered for my taste)

FYI doing ocean passage is about staying intact in one piece rather than speed, although having more speed (bigger horsepower) is always good when you need to dodging a hurricane / typhoon or having medical emergency onboard.

So far I view this as the ultimate seasteading. The RMS Queen Mary 2. She is an Ocean Liner (NOT a Cruise Liner)

 

Good morning Old Geezer and Varuna,

"There Is A Supreme Being !"

In my opinion, the above-pictured Cunard RMS Queen Mary 2 even exceeds New Zealand's RAINBOW WARRIOR for a Prepper vessel.

What time's shuffle board ?

 

If there is such thing as prepper fleet, I say it should consist of ocean liner, 3/4 loaded container ship, factory ship, product tanker, hospital ship, repair ship, alongside mix of LHD, and LST for security.

 

Good morning Varuna,

My contrary vote is to ask to borrow one of Watcherchris' missile-platform submarines (SSBN).

I thought surface vessels - includes LSTs - were magnets for sea-skimming cruise missiles launched from wooden fishing boats.

We must not forget the new prepper lifeboat if it can fit in an ICBM tube on the sub.

 

For naval vessel, anything that have more than Bushmaster as their weapon will require extensive manpower and / or maintenance / periodic re certification. And I don't see any benefit of using large submarine for seasteading (even if you could afford one)

The heaviest thing a wooden boat could shoot is either shoulder mounted or the good ol Ma Deuce, and so far there isn't any AShM in that size

 

Good morning Varuna,

When scrolling over to this thread, I was planning to scribble something else, but, ... would not an infantry SAM used by a merchant mariner exceed requirements ?

Today, China has the world's largest combination fisheries / Coast Guard fleet. So far, they are successful in their assignments.

A wooden hull vessel can be armed with much more than light armaments. The new field - I consider it nearly useless - is the deployment of rail guns and laser guns. The new REAL areas of contest on on the Asian land mass.

 

A SHTF bunker that is out on the water is actually a pretty good idea. It's a virtual moat in of its self. And moats have been used for defensive purposes for I don't know how long.

But yeah, I wouldn't want that luxury thing. I'd rather turn a cargo ship into my SHTF residence. Plus, all that room makes for great prepper storage of food and what have you. Plus you have a mechanism for water at all times. So no having to drill for water and hope that never drys up. With the added storage you can have backup parts in case mechanics beak down, etc.

I wouldn't set my ship out on the ocean though. I'd used one of the great lakes. If an asteroid comes in it will more than likely hit the ocean seen as how the Earth is largely covered by ocean. If that happens, prepare for a massive, and I mean MASSIVE tsunami.

Can't really think of any reason why a great lake would be a bad idea off hand though. They do have some unreal storms and there's a song about a cargo ship that sunk called the Edmund Fitzgerald, but I don't know how that went down and it's not every day you hear about that happening on a great lake on the news. Now watch that I wrote this some time next week it'll happen.

 

Good morning F-22,

Much depends on the definitions used.

The English Channel once had moat status but lost it when the Brits' enemies became better equipped to include their fleets and the later aeroplane.

If SHTF mean that all Hades is breaking loose, then UNDER water might be safer than on the surface. Non-natural matters such as germ warfare could prove unbearable on the surface.

What's the definition of "luxury" ? My def is an engraved guest list with some equivilant of "B.Y.O.B." - Bring Your Own Booze" to bring anti-germ warfare pharma and be skilled in administering it (ie guests from the health care professions).

It won't be an asteroid. It will probably be some junk from a university's research lab on prime Lake-front shoreline that damages the propellers, shafts and any instrument domes on the hull. Applicable also to the Chesapeake Bay.

 

infantry SAM = shoulder mounted. So YES its viable option. But for anything larger you will get load-bearing issue. But then again you don't sink a boat (of any size) by punching hole on it, you sink boat by pouring water in.

Only IF the basin country allowed them to do so (doesn't dare to challenge them), or in friendly term with them.

 

Contrary to Hollywood portrayal of tsunami. One the safest place if there is a huge tsunami is out there over deep water (preferably beyond the continental shelf)

 

it just so happens that i rent a house boat every year in northern quebec to go fishing. have i have never thought about using one as a refuge from the storm. it could work. if you had assault rifles and lots of gasoline.

 

Good afternoon Varuna,

I know of an example, circa 2016, when China was not allowed by SR Vietnam - nor each nation on friendly terms - when China's Coast Guard was successful in their assignment.

BP was planning to do some drilling offshore in a leasehold acquired from Vietnam. The China Coast Guard approached the BP main vessel. The Chinese Commander said the waters in the leasehold were contested. He said that China could not stop BP from drilling there but that the safety of BP personnel could not be assured. BP left the area.

I have a hunch that if a cruise missile punches a hole in the targeted vessel below the water line, water will pour in.

 

I have run fishing vessels up to 100' and I have circumnavigated the North Atlantic alone. I think I have a better than average knowledge of life aboard. A houseboat would be an excellent choice, if you have the fuel.

Some place where there are numerous islands, bays, and channels to hide in with very few people would be ideal. The Inside Passage from Seattle, through Canada, and up to Skagway, AK would be ideal. I don't know the Great Lakes but I'd guess that there are many remote spots to hide. Your local knowledge is the key to hiding and hiding is the way to survive on a boat. After a SHTF event fuel is likely to be a premium item so nobody is going to be able to wander every bay on the off chance that someone has a few gallons of gas and a bag of groceries.

Personally, I'd rather have a sailboat but more people have the skills to operate a powerboat. A houseboat has the benefit of more space and usually two hulls and an engine in each.

 

In a tsunami I'd rather be at sea. At sea a tsunami wave is not discernible. The wavelength is hundreds of miles long. At water level, as seen from a small boat, the horizon is about seven miles so you will not see a tsunami. All the other waves travel the ocean atop the tsunami and everything appears normal.

The tsunami becomes a threat as it hits shallow water. When the wave hits bottom, like the continental shelf, it starts to slow and climb out of the ocean. In some cases this can cause a crest but often it is just like a very fast, very high tide. The term used to be "tidal wave" for a reason.

When the 1964 quake of 9.2 hit Alaska the tsunami killed as far away as Crescent City, CA. A friend of mine was towing logs off the coast of Alaska when the tsunami hit. He knew something was wrong but had no idea what had happened till he heard the news. He was an experienced captain but few have seen a tsunami so he hadn't even spoken to another seaman to have something to compare to.

If you were in the immediate area of a meteor strike your number might be up but not necessarily. In 1958 the Lituya Bay tsunami reached 1,722 ft. (525M). Two fishing boats were in the bay. One was never seen again, the other boat survived with both people that were on it.

 

Good morning Caribou,

Appreciate your mentioned review of term "tidal wave". Something is now cleared up for me. Merci !

 

Vietnam is rather tricky in their relation with China. They somehow lack the political will to challenge China and their manufacturing industry rely heavily in China investment, and to some degree their population are also pro-China. Also keep in mind that Vietnam use Russian hardware (Army, Navy, Airforce) which is very similar to their China copy if not sub-par in their electronics particularly comm, radar, and target tracking.

The role of any AShM is for "mission-kill" by punching hole & create enough onboard fire to kill the target CMS (Combat Management System) and other sensitive system such as targeting radar, radio mast, etc.

Punching hole below the water line require huge amount of overpressure which is not viable to be carry (too heavy) in AShM size, not to mention any decent surface combatant has enough redundancy and bulkhead to control flooding.
The role for sinking target is for Heavy Torpedo (ADCAP, Black Shark, Seehecht, F21, etc) and they do so by blasting under the keel (snapping the target back)

 

Good morning Lonewolf,

Water craft are really just like hand tools in a tool box. Each has a different purpose. In emergencies, a hack saw for cutting metal can be used to cut some wood. A pliers can sometimes be used to substitute for a small crescent wrench. Narrow boats have value if a realistic assessment shows they can work for the purpose.

I have a water craft to flee an anticipated forest fire and the poisonous gasses produced. Our craft is an inflatable. We've got it rigged for sail, motor and some long poles for traditional shoreline propulsion.

Even with the narrow canal craft you described above, you can also pull a raft loaded with some basic supplies.

 

Good morning Varuna,

Besides the missing political will, Vietnamese trucks on the northern border with China will not be delivering their goods to Chinese buyers.

Philippines also has a tricky relationship with China. One of China's historic "Unequal Treaties" is the Sulu Archipelago. Care must be exercised.

A Russian-equipped and armed or even a US-equipped and armed Vietnam does not matter. Some Mekong Delta waterworks will flood Vietnam. In theoretical terms, Vietnam would have to import food for the next 100 years. In practical terms, Viet schools will be teaching the children more Mandarin and less Vietnamese.

State of the art or, at least, advanced-level naval platforms do not operate in a vacuum. Use of a cruise missile is accompanied with use of ECM, ECCM and other ordnance use besides the sea skimmer. Typical targets just might not be enemy surface combatants. I am thinking of enemy container ships and petrol carriers. Regardless, a surface combatant loaded with redundancy and bulkhead can also be sunk - and even this is not that important. What's important is that the former expensive platform is now not involved.

There must be a reason the USN avoids approaching shorelines with sea-skimmer missiles.

The basic rule applies: Don't go to a gun fight with a knife.

 

Philippines dispute of the Sulu archipelago is always with Malaysia (and will always be). So far I haven't seen any significant effort by both side of the government to resolve the dispute, which make things difficult for Indonesia who need to do most of the legwork for maritime security and air policing in that area (fuel ain't cheap, so does jet engine)

You know, US force isn't exactly at the top of the Wild Weasel business nowadays. Case example is 2011 invasion of Libya, where France do most of the Wild Weasel tasking. to the point that both MBDA and Dassault sales rep keep using them as their sales pitch, and I've got to admit they do have valid points.

And when it come to integrated ECCM the Saab RBS-15 is probably the most advance AShM currently in the market, albeit they lack the battle proven reputation of the MBDA Exocet (which is key consideration for any potential customer)

 

Good afternoon Varuna,

I do not believe some SEA territorial disputes are being sought for finalization because the status quo serves all parties better.

- If - there is a need, the Sulu Arch. dispute will see a China presence. Indonesia is caught in the standard problems of international relations.

Some of the aspects of US expeditionary forces are for domestic US public consumption. This is easy to establish because many US military excursions are unknown to the public. The US has 5 aircraft carriers offshore Hampton Roads, Virginia in need of maintenance (read: money from D.C.) They approach being useless like the no longer surface vessels in naval combat. It's an era that's nearly phased out. The Libya event was successful from a public relations event. A little latter, the USN had 3 accidental boat collisions in East Asia. Accidents do happen and a collision at sea can ruin the entire day. Yet, ships are more than a cottage industry.

Can Saab and Exocet operate in an EMT environment ? Only 2 -3 nations can establish a discriminate EMT and these nations are not Sweden and France. What was the experimenting about re MH flight 370 ?

Do note that traditional standard US doctrine is to delay US entry into the battle (less what is not available to learn by the public).

- If - there's an all Hades breaks loose / SHTF, the astute poker player wins and the Trump card isn't European.

 

Friend of mine and I both liked Gordon Lightfoot. Both of us had Lightfoot albums. My friend had, by far, the best turntable. Windows open, we'd be smoking on the front porch, Gordon's music lofting out the open window (1977/78???). (Lightfoot, I now read, is still alive. Miracle. Even back then, he'd show up at concerts drunk. People started writing him off. Must have gotten his act together. Good for him. Until I read about him still being alive, I'd of put my money on him being dead.)

The Edmund Fitzgerald:

 

Sidebar: Up above, I meant to write "EMP" ... pulse, and not the medic, the EMT. My mistake caused by a couple of my minor ailments. Apology.

....................................

Good morning Old Geezer,

When writing about contemporary civilization: the social, political and economic, Gordon Lightfoot is prominent.

My first real intro to Gordon Lightfoot was job-related. He wrote "Black Day In July" about the 1967 Detroit riots.

"In the office of the President
The deed is done the troops are sent
There's really not much choice you see
It looks to us like anarchy."

After Vietnam, had thought I'd return to the fruited plain here and pig out on the benefits from a grateful nation. I was heavily involved in Army augmentation to the civil authorities for riot control. Gordon Lightfoot was our philosopher.

A couple of days ago I saw the mention here of the sunk Edmund Fitzgerald but held off with my early AM rambling because of Army memories. I would give much to ensure Edmund Fitzgerald replaces phoney-Joney Joan Baez as the real folk-singer and song writer.

It's hard to explain my above mental feelings, but if you could read my mind.............

Speaking of social, political, economic aspects of civilization, add somewhere " front porch". Social history is no longer taught south of the St Lawrence because we no longer have real schools; just decay.

 

Hammering seamanship into landlubbers is never easy, I always said to everyone that seamanship is more about mindset &
discipline. Which is why we here have this ship to do exactly that (hammering mindset & discipline)

There is the problem with executing real life attack using explosively pumped EMP. Its a huge & heavy device, not to mention the same attack would also affecting the attacker. Suffice to say the only practical delivery of EMP is as byproduct of thermonuclear detonation.

I'm aware of it, in fact we here has already taken that into account into strategic planning in case of open war break out against China. (not exactly public knowledge either, but an open secret nonetheless)

 

Good afternoon Varuna,

Now that's a nice sail boat !

A - discriminate - EMP would be to the enemy target only.....if it would work. I surely don't know.

Hopefully there's no war with China - by anyone. Everything's just about global.

 

Just since Vietnam and boats were mentioned in the same thread:

There were 19 of us in total in my nuclear and extended family. Passage on the ship was purchased with luong, 1.2-ounce 24-karat gold bars. All told, 154 luong — more than $135,000 in today’s dollars — were required to smuggle my family out of Vietnam. Those bars were the culmination of a lifetime of work, coated with love and stamped with faith, molded into 24 karats of black market gold. Which is how we found ourselves part of the mass exodus that would come to be known as the “Vietnamese Boat People.”

More like $271,656 today for that much gold, or about $14,000 per person.

The price for obtaining exit permits, documentation, and a boat or ship, often derelict, to leave Vietnam was reported to be the equivalent of $3,000 for adults and half that for children. These payments were often made in the form of gold bars. Many poorer Vietnamese left their country secretly without documentation and in flimsy boats, and these were the most vulnerable to pirates and storms while at sea.

If you don't have a boat, having gold might be the second best option.

 

Good morning Gate Crasher,

Love it !

... and they also make good cuff links.

Not too much is new under the sun.

 

You're right. Forgot about that.