How Much Can You Count On Your Community...

In reality, not at all. We have a community association that seems to be full of selfish people. I picked up trash along the main road here. 6 bags of trash, 1/2 a table top, the front fascia/bumper from a car. Then when we had a community dumpster, I hauled away trash left at a local church. One guy and his wife maned the dumpsters to limit people and ensure they were local's. Everyone else asked for help. Can you come do this for me? Will you bring your truck and help me load my trash? blah blah blah. Most will be asking for help but offering none and currently think preparing is stupid.

"Personal responsibility and nobility of character have faded away; indeed, such are the object of ridicule." sad but so true.

 

I live 16 miles from the smallest dying town. 1 teeny post office, 4 gas/diesel pumps, 1 very small grocery store so expensive I don’t know how it even stays in business so few people shop there. One country 6 bed hospital + 20 bed attached nursing home. 1 grain elevator/feed store. Couple of churches. That’s literally IT.
We will rely on outselves and no one else. Should it be a major SHTF scenario, Town is too far to walk to. My draft mules died (old age) so I don’t have a way to pull a wagon to town. The 2 horses I do have are elderly. Once fuel is gone, we’ll all be on foot. I have 3 neighbors, each is 2 miles away: one I wouldn’t ask for help because they are truly horrible people and we have nothing to do with them. (I wouldn’t ask them for a tourniquet if I chopped my foot off!) The second is a widow who literally is gone for weeks at a time. The third is my son, DIL, and grandbabies who are co-owners of our 100 head cattle ranch, and she’s a nurse at the hospital. We would rely on each other. Anyone else? NOOOO. This is a VERY low population area here and most people are 4 or more miles apart. Can’t rely on what isn’t there.

 

I figure to shoot my neighbors in the first fall after the SHTF.......

 

Good morning Coprepper,

An indirect footnote type of reply to your above "6 bed hospital + 20 bed .. nursing home:

Skilled nursing facilities (SNF) now have the same legal status as an acute-care hospital and therefore part of power restoration programs and the related critical infrastructure.

President Trump signed S1379 on 7 June.

It's a small event in the national scheme of things but it's required to start the rehab journey otherwise we's be rapidly enroute to join Venezuela, Russia, .....the once-rich societies.

 

By and large this community pulls together well. Forest Fires and floods have proved that. There is some riff Riff but in a SHTF world that’s a problem that would go away quickly.

 

The only thing I can count on my "community" doing, is trying to rob me of what I got. Although there are a few Militias in our Area, which are mostly trustworthy, they helped out during our last few hurricanes/major storms.

 

My way of thinking is if someone is depending on their neighbors during a disaster they are not much of a prepper .

 

There is a balance to be attained here. Effective societies and communities depend on interdependence. Yes one needs to prep for whatever scenarios they believe possible/probable and yes there is a need for good OPSEC. On the other hand I don’t think many go it totally alone types will survive long term.i do believe there are times/situations which call for bunkering up alone, but short of a total EOTWAWKI situation there are plenty of situations in which going with a community is a better option. It is dependent upon the individual/community of course.

 

I’d tell you what I really thought of that comment but manners suggest that I will respectfully disagree.

 

I've been following this thread and notice that presumptions are being used and relied upon that just might no longer be valid.

The neighbors could be in worst shape than you are in.

The neighborhood now has fleeing folks from other neighborhoods.

The roads are not passable.

Walking to neighbors involves familiar pathways that drastically changed from by the winds and rains of the hurricane or non-natural disaster.

It's warm weather and some livestock died. The flies, some birds and mosquitoes keep the knowledgeable away from this scene.

The governing thought must be self-reliance. Other matters can appropriately follow this.

......

I am not addressing whether neighbors need your help; just addressing the posed question of this thread.

 

IMO, there is difference between being dependent on your neighbors to exist; and depending on your neighbors working together for area security, help in barn raising etc....
Stuff too big to be easily done alone.

 

Sonofliberty said IMO, there is difference between being dependent on your neighbors to exist; and depending on your neighbors working together for area security, help inbarn raising etc....
Stuff too big to be easily done alone.

I think he does a good job of articulating what I tried to say earlier

 

Of course. I will quote myself here .... “There is a balance to be attained here. Effective societies and communities depend on interdependence. Yes one needs to prep for whatever scenarios they believe possible/probable and yes there is a need for good OPSEC. On the other hand I don’t think many go it totally alone types will survive long term.i do believe there are times/situations which call for bunkering up alone, but short of a total EOTWAWKI situation there are plenty of situations in which going with a community is a better option. It is dependent upon the individual and community of course.”

You are always going to have to judge the situation, it just is not always one way or the other. There are plenty of situations where my community could be a real asset. There are other scenarios not so much so.

 

I am in rural Canada. Most of my neighbours grow garden, hunt, fish, many still heat with wood. We are remote by many definitions., one highway into and out of the valley surrounded by tens of millions of acres of wilderness. No where’s near as remote as some of the people who are on this forum.

It is has been my experience that the willingness of neighbours to help etc is directly proportional to your willingness to do so. If you chose not to seek help that is your prerogative, if none was offered it likely reflects as much on you as your neighbours. There are certainly many people out there who are not trustworthy, and others in whom you can place only limited trust no doubt. There are some that I would trust to have my back ... I could leave cash on the table, my booze open and my wife naked without a worry (it’s a metaphor).. there are others I check my rings and watch to make sure they are still there after talking to them. It would be foolish to trust absolutely everyone.

It’s not foolish naivety on my part, discernment and wisdom is always required when dealing with people. All people are flawed. At times you will even let Yourself down.

 

I don't DEPEND on anyone for my survival BUT I will do my best to put together a group that can work together and improves everyone's life and chances of survival. I understand that for whatever reason, some people want to go it totally alone. There have always been people that went that path. The problem is that it isn't a very good survival strategy and eventually someone will find your body in a hut alone and unnoted. Something is going to get you and if you are alone you won't recover. there is no place that people have not come together and in the end, unfortunately, that group will become territorial and run the loners off or just kill them and take what they have. Tribes, Clans, Nations or just extended family groups all have a future. A hermit is just biding their time until they die.

I don't like crowds. I never even TRIED to live in an apartment type place. I never lived in a place with anyone except my parents and then my wife. I am NOT the most social person in the world and like a lot of room around me. I understand the desire to be left alone and not placing yourself in a place where others could take advantage of you or hurt you. The thing for me is that when it comes to survival it isn't about what I LIKE or want. Survival is about taking what is available and using that to improve your long term chances for survival AND the survival of your descendants.

I like steak and LOVE my airconditioner. If it is what it takes I WILL eat worms and sweat. Unfortunately, in the long run, a tribe will thrive and grow while the loner just gets old and dies...

 

I think what I see here is a subtle but important difference in the use of terminology or emphasis. I can’t disagree with anything you have said... so using the terms as you have, let me reiterate that I am a strong advocate of community cooperation but also having self reliance. For me the extent of either depends on the scenario and the person/ community.

Allow me to give an example... huge forest fires several years ago. The community pulled together sharing accommodation, livestock grazing etc. Several people opted to hold out and fight the fires on their own. They and their livestock died. That’s pretty solid cooperation.

Now let’s assume a total grid down EOCAWKI scenario, I’ m going to hinder down pretty hard until all th3 dust settles. Differing situation differing response.

For those who choose to go it alone in every scenario, more power to them. I respect their choice but I don’t think it’s wisdom. To be prepared to go it alone if and when there is not a good alternative makes more sense to me.

I can’t speak about the people on this forum but the few go it alone all the time types I have encountered over the years might exist in the long run, but they are not living any form of life now. I am not speaking of people who simply prefer more solitary lives, everyone is hardwired differently, I am talking the antisocial distrusting* past the point of clinical paranoia types.

Perhaps that makes me less of a prepper, but I truly believe that a balance can be had and strive for it. I have a very wide circle of associates, a smaller circle of friends and a very very small circle of people who I would trust with my life. Those very very few people have come through for me in the past often at great cost to themselves. That Means time, trust and experience to develop.

If I can use the forum here as an analogy (albeit a flawed one) the whole forum are my associates. Some of you I know a little better (typically from elsewhere) and would love to meet you in person and get to know you. Out of that small group might come some people I trust. There are people in the group that I delight in being able to converse with here but never want to meet in person and I check my watch, rings and back after every interaction.

Each of you woulD put me in one of those categories as well. We might might make some errors along the way. It wasn’t any different in the military, some people were in the same unit as I was, some were friends, some would have your back no matter what and some you would never turn your back on.

Any way .... that’s a long ramble to say that I don’t think we are as far apart as I initially thought

 

The thing that as survivalists that we will need to do is to prepare but also be prepared to modify and react to the specifics of the "problem." There are a few situations where immediate cooperative efforts will be required but in most cases, there will be a period where hunkering down and trying to be invisible will be the best way to go. Too many people and not enough resources are going to make it crazy for a while. This is a time for family and friends that are like family to be together but it needs to be a small group. Too many people will draw more attention.

I know for a fact that some of my "neighbors" are going to be hungry within 36 hours of the stores closing. They already live a basically hand to mouth existence picking up supper from someplace nearly every day. They seldom cook and have no way to cook if the power is off. After the last hurricane, he was trying to warm soup in a cast-iron skillet with a propane torch in the dark to feed a family of four. They are going to be a problem that I am not going to feed. If they try to force the issue they will be garden fertilizer. I learned years ago that they are users and my charity will be for those that will have something to contribute. Fortunately, most of the people around me have livestock and are country folk.

Survival plans need to be in stages. In most cases, you can't just go "road warrior" immediately. You don't want to burn any bridges early on that you may want to cross again if things don't go as you expected.

 

I prefer a small family group that will work together . I like the isolation as much as possible from everyone that is not already in my group . Some seem to be skeptical but I suspect my group could live for years without outside contact and that is without looking at my neighbors resources . I have good neighbors , some are HARDCORE preppers that likely could out last my group . But my group and my neighboring group are both so well prepared I don't think we would need each other's assistance . The only real benefit that I can see is for the young folks looking for a spouse from the other group if it came down to few people on the planet . As for as the less prepared neighbors I simply do not want to watch them slowly starve to death .

 

@lonewolf I have said all along that the go it alone vs community thing is situational. I’m not judging your situation, you know it better than I could ever hope to. As @TMT Tactical said cooperation is not the same as dependence but from you describe there really isn’t a community there other than maybe in name.

Go with what works for you. The beauty of these forums is that we get to see things through the eyes of others. Sometimes we learn that there are better/different/new approaches and sometimes we are convicted that what we are doing already is best for us. Of course none has been through TEOTWAWKI so it’s speculation, perhaps educated speculation.

I’m an old guy (not as old as some of you) with health issues, so my probability of my survival is at best marginally better than the average sheeple, but I prep for the sake of my kids and grandkids. The more I know and can pass down the better their odds. I’m here to debate, discuss and learn

 

Believe me I know the feeling, my mouth has written many a cheque that my body couldn’t cash

 

If that’s what works for you go for it. Being alone doesn't fill me with dread, nor does being* in a large crowd. As they say different strokes for different folks.

As for the community idea not working, I’ve said it before that depends on the community and the individual, if I lived in a primarily urban area I’d be more concerned. People where I live are used to access being cut off and mostly live accordingly.

I’m curious, you are a loner, by your wife’s definition a “recluse”, how do her social/ community needs stack up with your plans?

 

I just don't think you will find many communities that will prepare as a group to survive any farther than one month . After their freezers are empty or food within spoiled they will be in a dire situation . They likely just aren't thinking long term . A family or real structured survivalist group is a different matter . Depending on how serious that small prepper group is , they may be prepared to survive indefinitely . Trying to survive as a community was tried in the founding colony of James Town . They starved and resorted to cannibalism , even the poor Native Americans were appalled at their skeletal walking neighbors . The next year they took a different approach and prepared as individual family groups and survived much better .

 

Just a add on to my previous post on this matter . Once the communities food runs out "and that won't take long " they will become a roving band of looters preying on the more prepared .

 

I know we are an unusual community but I have seen the gardens, pantries and armouries of many of my neighbours who would not consider themselves Preppers at all. I remember sitting down with a group of nice little old church ladies when the topic somehow came up, one sweet little lady who wouldn't say s*** if she had a mouthful, said I am not worried, I have enough guns and ammo to shoot the bas****s, and another said, “and I reload too”.

Now like any community we have our share of druggies and bottom feeders but those would get sorted out pretty quick. More than one local low life has been persuaded by neighbours to move to a different community.

 

Seems your family is a bit on its own.

You could start some sort of theme park to draw in more people and money. Burn some circles in surrounding fields -- not on your own property, of course. Then, become a UFO expert. Make up some fake photos of the aliens. Disembowel some livestock that are already sick. Call the press. With the initial income, build a gift shop. Claim to have been abducted. Do you have any scars? Give lectures. With these proceeds, build up your farm and survival supplies. Support a local commune -- that is sure to form -- who use natural fertilizer (your cattle's field pies; $1/ea) to grow their crops ... which they will assuredly share with the "abductee lady".

Remember: "Life is all about sincerity. When you learn to fake that, you have it made."

 

So they match. I was simply curious as not every couple is the same that way.