How To Defend Versus A Bear?

Discussion in 'Newbie Corner' started by Koala, Jul 7, 2017.

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  1. Koala

    Koala Well-Known Member
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    I live near an area that has wild bears. There aren't many but they are protected by the law so you can't harm them or kill them. I have often questioned this in my mind... what would I have done if I went on a hike and was suddenly met eye to eye with this furry beast? Would I run and panic? Would I try to stay still and hope that it goes away?

    I honestly have no idea about what is the best course of action in such situation...

    So help me out! How do you defend versus a bear? What's the best thing to do if you ever met one somewhere in the wilderness?
     
  2. Corzhens

    Corzhens Master Survivalist
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    There are no bears here but based on what I know from the textbook and documentaries, bears can only harm you when near. They are near sighted. When attacked, the best thing to do is to get away from it and be a statue. When the bear cannot see you anymore, it will leave. Avoidance is still better than escaping so you have to be aware of wild animals when in the wilderness.
     
  3. OursIsTheFury

    OursIsTheFury Expert Member
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    I swear I read an 8 year old kid who saved his younger sister by playing dead. Apparently he learned the skill from a video game which in turn saved their lives. I have no idea how it worked; maybe the bear just wasn't as aggressive as they thought; maybe the bear lost interest, I dunno. But people claim that climbing trees and playing heavy metal music also helped deter a predator on the wild, including wolves and coyotes. Luckily for me though I never had to worry about that sort of thing because there are no bears where I'm at.
     
  4. FuZyOn

    FuZyOn Expert Member
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    Playing dead is not actually a myth, it's the best thing you can do if you're being attacked by a bear. It isn't a 100% chance of survival but it's your best bet. You can't outrun a bear, once they've caught onto you there's no way to go except for playing dead or climbing a tree near you. It also depends on the type of bear you face, some are calmer while some will eat you even when you play dead. Romania is filled with bears so I need to watch out for them.
     
  5. PedroP

    PedroP Active Member
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    Depends on the bear. There was this old saying aye? "If it's black fight back, if it's brown lie down, if it's white say goodbye" Jokes aside I'd run for shelter. If I couldn't get any or if I was in an open field then I'd most like fight it. I figure odds are low but I'd try to flank it and hit his side with a knife or similar object
     
  6. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    Well here is a rule that yo can use to tell what kind of bear is attacking you

    The tree tell what kind of bear

    If a bear is trying to attack you and you climb a tree and it climbs up with you it's a black bear


    If a bear is trying to attack you and you climb a tree and it shakes you out of the tree it's a grizzly bear


    If a bear is trying to attack you and you try to climb a tree but there's no tree to climb and snow all over is a polar bear

    If a bear is attacking you and you climb a tree and he starts to eat the tree you climb bamboo and it is a panda bear

    If a bear is attacking you and you climb a tree and the little guy climbs up with you and starts making tea from the leaves you have climb a eucalyptus tree and it's a koala bear
     
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  7. Koala

    Koala Well-Known Member
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    Haha, damn, Bishop. You are a true expert when it comes to bears! How many have you tackled with already??

    Sorry, I forgot to add that the bear kind that we get here are the brown bears. There aren't huge amounts of them but there's still some lurking around. And it seems like playing dead is the best option! I will probably have a heart attack upon seeing it anyway :D
     
  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In America, what you do depends on the bear. I know next to nothing about brown bears. I figure I'd need a rifle like a cannon.

    Black bears are much more passive than brown bears. They are downright lazy. If when hiking you run across one, raise your backpack way up high over your head. The bear's brain registers you as a critter that tall and the bear will just loap away. You run across a sow with cubs, well just kiss your ### goodbye.

    Bishop was right about black bears climbing trees. One time I saw a young bear (not cub, not adult, in-between) climb a tulip poplar faster than a squirrel -- and I've shot a many a squirrel.
     
  9. zackdsilvis

    zackdsilvis New Member
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    I have always been told to remain calm and not move if a bear is going to attack. I don't really know about that, since when I camp is the only time I encounter bears, I usually have some kind of firearm or weapon on me and if the time came where I had to kill a bear, I'd usually have the resources with me to do so.
     
  10. Bishop

    Bishop Master Survivalist
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    4939.jpeg

    This one came in on my sister while she was in her hunting blind she scared it off but came back later and tore her blind down this is not a very good picture from the game camera he has move on to greener pastures.
     
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  11. PedroP

    PedroP Active Member
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    Damn it actually was that close from her? I wonder what it must feel like. I've fought some big hairy men before but none of them must compare. The smell maybe hahaha
     
  12. Rhodolite

    Rhodolite New Member
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    Never run from a bear. Ever. Doesn't matter how scared you are. They will chase you down and they will take you down. Never show your back ever. Being vaguely related to dogs they have the chase instinct in them. Black bears will go away if you make yourself look larger and meaner. Brown bears? Play dead and hope they'll go away. Don't fight it unless you have a bloody gun. Those nasties are heavy, very strong, very fast and armed with nasty claws and teeth that will tear you to ribbons. I'm from the PacNW so bears are pretty common out there.
     
  13. PedroP

    PedroP Active Member
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    Nice to know buddy. I admit bears are hardly my specialty. There are no bears in Brazil. We have jaguars though but those are damn too fast. There have been reports of people surviving jaguar attacks but I'll be damned if I ever see anyone fight one. Still, it's a very useful knowledge, never know when we'll need it.
     
  14. Denis_P

    Denis_P Member
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    Your reaction is going to depend on the type of bear it is.

    If it is a black bear, stand your ground and yell loudly, while trying to make yourself look as big as possible. Black bears are notorious cowards, and even without your efforts at looking frightening, will probably run away from you.

    If it is a brown bear, for the love of god don't try intimidating it because it will absolute ruin you. They are fighters. And don't try running from it either, because you have absolutely no chance of outrunning a bear unless you can somehow run faster than 40mph. Your best bet is to lay on the ground, protect your vitals, and make the bear believe that the threat has been neutralized. Also pray to whatever deity you believe in that he isn't hungry.

    If it's a polar bear, do whatever. You're dead in any case.
     
  15. Zeyad

    Zeyad New Member
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    Playing dead might sound silly but it's a very effective way since bears are way faster than you think and will definitely outrun you
     
  16. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If you don't have a gun and a grizzly charges you, lay down roll into a ball covering your head and play dead. When he gets tired of batting you around wait for him to get well down the road and then evacuate. Don't fight with it you CAN'T win. You can out run them either. Generally they don't eat people.

    If you are charged by a black bear grab a stick and fight him. They are not serious about killing you or eating and are a lot more likely than a Grizzly to back off.

    If a Polar Bear charges you RUN! That is your only hope. If it catches you it is going to eat you!! If you fight it is going to kill you for sure and though it can outrun a race horse at least you might be able to get to someplace tio hide or shelter. That is your only hope.

    Personally if I was in Bear country I would go with LARGE caliber firearms!!
     
  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Wanna drop a big critter? First, may God go with you. Few decades back (1950s? maybe), two airmen in Alaska dumped their M1 Garands' into a brown bear. After taking over a minimum of seven rounds of M1 ball, the bear killed them both. One airman was partially eaten and buried by the bear for a later snack. However long afterwards, the bear ended up bleeding to death. Short story, the critter didn't even lose his appetite.

    Bear country? Me, semi-auto sounds good. Ten or twelve gauge with slugs. Rifle, how about a NEMO in .338 Win Mag., how about .458 Win, it will be a custom job, yet:

    http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear-accessories/nemo-omen-458/

    NEMO .300 Win mag



    One can still find Browning autos in .338 Win Mag
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=Browning+338+Win&Sort=1

    9.3 x 62 in a Browning BAR

    http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/9.3x62.html
     
  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I like the 20 gauge in general. The ammo is a little lighter and it will do most things that a 12 will do. A handgun for bears is a minimalist thing but it is something that you can have at all times with your hands free. A shotgun is either in your hands or riding your shoulder and falling off. If say you are picking berries it is all to likely to end up leaned against a tree. While even a 44 mag isn't a certain stopper in most cases the noise will back a bear off. Only actually shoot one with a handgun as a last resort because once enraged somebody is going to die. Most people that hunt bears with handguns have someone backing them up with a big heavy caliber rifle...or they have a death wish. Even these new monster rounds like the 500 S&W are not a sure thing on a bear.

    Bolt actions are good because they are massively strong actions and relatively simple in their construction. They seldom fail and almost never jam or fail to feed. They can shoot any ammo that is made in their caliber and are not affected by pressure differences or bullet weight, shape or over all length like most other actions. Other than a break action they are the most dependable in any condition and the easiest to maintain.

    A bolt action in the hands of someone trained to use them offers a reasonably fast replete shot. It never leaves the shoulder and is a little like a pump shotgun in that the time you spend chambering another round isn't much more than the time you should take to recover from the recoil and get back on target. Bolt action for military use don't shoot mouse rounds. They have recoil BUT one hit will usually do the job. In an open range as the Germans learned in Russia, a bolt action is better than a machine gun. The bolt action Nagant killed the Germans before they could get close enough to effectively use the machine guns.

    Even in today's spray and pray military there is a place for single aimed shots and the call is again going out for a heavier and more effective round and rifle for our troops. In survival I don't want to wound or scare an enemy target. I want them dead and down!! Bolt actions excel at that.
     
  19. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    What you are saying is silly. UNLESS you expect the US and Europe to be invaded and it is a Red Dawns situation. Thugs don't go on patrol. And your point about not having the evac or support is my point exactly. DON'T go out looking for trouble because if I gut shoot you with a 22 you will die and it will be long slow and painful. Since when is poking a hole in paper, even at a thousand yards) proof of a weapons ability to stop and kill an enemy that is trying to kill you?????? Belt fed weapons have no practical use in survival. They are actually just a good way to get killed even in the military. Survival rates of gunners on an M-60 crew is much lower than the other armed infantry soldiers. You fire that beast up and everyone in the area knows exactly where you are at and starts placing a priority on your head!! It is great if you can get the enemy to stand in line and be still but if they are moving and scattered it loses its effectiveness. It is a defensive weapon more than an offensive weapon best used in set battles with known battle lines. You lose firepower to some extent because it takes several men to haul that beast and its ammo around. I've handles one and it is not a one man stand and shoot weapon like Rambo did at ALL. I don't know where you get your ballistic info but it is insane and like magic bullets. A 22 caliber FMJ bullet that weighs 55 or so grains doesn't make a .750 inch hole. The FACT is that it won't generally even break a major bone and that is where the stories of hitting people in the shin and having the bullet come out of the top of their head came from. It would his and bounce off but occasionally it would run up the bone through soft tissue. Because it is FMJ and doesn't transfer its energy to soft tissue like a hollow point would it can drill holes in a person. The good news is that these holes are small and don't make you bleed out like a major wound will. That is a fact and simple math. The 5.56 was and is a weapon designed to cause injuries and not kill. that is also the reason for the FMJ Bullets. If you want to survive when there is no medivac you need to KILL your attackers as fast as possible and that isn't done with a 22. In the gun world if you compared it into the knife world a 7.62 is like a Bowie knife and the 5.56 is an icepick! An icepick will kill but that doesn't make it my first choice to bring to a knife fight.

    Desk jockey warriors and politicians love the little 5.56. It is cheep and we have gotten all of our allies to go to it. It is a NICE round. Notice that none of our enemies are using it. The warriors that I know that have been active in Afganastan and Iraq all say that as soon as they got there they grabbed an AK. The paper tigers that never went out on patrol gave them hell for it but they kept coming back alive and so it was accepted. When someone is trying to kill you you want to kill them NOW not wound them. The AK does that and the AR doesn't. The AR was good in Vietnam. You seldom knew exactly where your target was so a lot of lead was a good answer. In the mountains and desert you need to HIT and stop what you can see and this requires things that the AR just isn't very good at. You evidently get your info from movies and TV because that is the only place that shows the kind of strange stuff that you come up with like choosing to try and protect yourself with a suppressed AR shooting subsonic ammo that won't penetrate a piece of plywood at a hundred years. Suppressed subsonic weapons are TV toys and on;y have a use in the real world as MAYBE an assassins weapon.

    You are crazy if you think that a short light barred AR can reach out like a good bolt action. Even the jar head marines used a Kate 308 Winchester model 70 in their sniper teams. The harmonics of a short light barrel preclude good super long range accuracy. Also lighter bullets are geometrically less effective if it is hot or even slightly breezy. a 55 grain bullet just doesn't have the same inertial strength nor the gyroscopic stability of a longer heavier 150 to 170 grain bullet. The shorter bearing surface makes for a less effective spin of the bullet and because of this boat tailed 22 bullets don't give you the advantageous ballistic coefficient that you get from a boat tailed longer 308 bullet. . THIS sort of crud is what I DO know about. I was well paid by people to help them develop loads that allowed them to shoot less than minute of angle groups at extreme distances. It is the longer bullets that have made the 300 Winchester magnum a weapon of choice for light duty sniper fire. The big boys are shooting a 50BMG round and THAT will kill you at well over a mile! We used to shoot crows with one at about 1200 to 1500 yards.
     
  20. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I guess we're talking about shooting people in a war situation.
    Humans are very vulnerable to center-fire rifle ammo out of a rifle, even a small bore.
    Humans have brains. They do not stand out in the open.
    They seek concealment. They seek cover.
    The modus operandi for heavy FMJ bullets is to shoot through that which your enemy has placed between himself and you.
    War requires that the soldier shoot through the sides of vehicles, buildings, masonry of whatever ilk, floors, ceilings, steel panels, trees, ...
    Once upon a time, the U.S. military wanted ball ammo to go through 18 inches of dried oak or get through light steel armor to cause casualties to the enemy on the other side of that.
    Big compromises were made to accommodate the 5.56.
    If your survival plans involve shooting through the walls of buildings -- say the walls, ceiling, floor of your own home -- then you gotta have FMJs of the 7.62x39Soviet / 7.62NATO realm.
    In the USA, cinder blocks / concrete blocks are the building material of walls.
    Me, there's a place in my heart for the "obsolete" .303 Enfield.
    What a wonderfully slick bolt it has -- just have to slap it!
    Stripper clip fed 10-round magazine. Years back found Greek ammo, non-corrosive, lacquer primers, annealed shoulders.
    An Aussie routinely out-performed a friend of mine killing hogs. The Aussie had an Enfield. My friend had a semi-auto.
     
  21. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Thank you Billa. You finally understand and made my point. This board is about survival and NOT about making war. I can't afford to try and carry 50,000 rounds around to make one kill so I HAVE to be smart and way more accurate than that. The fact is that other than a marine sniper I AM a lot better than most soldiers and can easily take 500 to 1000 yard shots and hit crow sized targets. In a survival situation if you shoot a couple hundred rounds and haven't made a kill you are probably going to die. I used to regularly hit man sized targets at 300 meters with a handgun.

    The military is trying to reach and take objectives. I want to live to see another day. That means that under NO circumstance am I going to charge up a hill or continue a fire fight past a certain limited point. I will not have unlimited ammunition. The cavalry is not going to come riding in or flying in and save me. I can't call for help or bring down a fire strike on my enemies. I won't have a medic there to keep me alive until a helicopter can come and haul me to a hospital. I have NO desire to be a hero and nobody is going to pin a medal on me if I do something stupid. Everyone needs to try and understand survival is a totally different set of imperatives than a military operation and if you go out and play soldier some old fart is just going to kill you!!

    The closest thing in a military theme to survival is a gorilla action done by an individual or very small group that has little to no hope of ever winning and going home in peace. All that they can do is make their enemy miserable with small strikes and then run before they can bring in support. They don't march in lines and they don't waste ammo when they don't know where their reloads will come from. It is them against the world and the only hope for survival is not to ever allow themselves to be cornered of found by a superior force. By both my nature and training I will be a very crappy person to have after you. I WILL run like a rabbit if attacked and then come back and kill you ALL one at a time and truthfully there wouldn't be a damn thing that you could do about it. I can see in the dark, move without making a sound and will collect your ears for trophies Leaving your body as a warning to all that to stay is to die.

    The people that will be with me are like me and older but a Green Beret and a Seal never forget what it is to be a killer. They and others of their kind taught me well and when you can sneak up on them in the woods at night you are GOOD! The guys that I hung out with were not in Vietnam...they were in Cambodia and didn't wear uniforms.
     
  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Old Geezer we are talking about military actions. I'm trying to get Billa to understand the difference between a military and survivalists. Unfortunately the military all too often doesn't go for that desire to seek and take cover. There WAs no cover for my Uncles when they landed on the beaches in Normandy in WW2! My Grandfather and his brothers climbed up out of their trenches and charged the Germans in France in WW1. There was no place to hide when the Screaming Eagles took Ap Bia Mountain from the North Vietnamese. They made a movie about that called Hamburger Hill. There was no place to hide when they charged up San Juan Hill in the Spanish American wars. We charged across the open fields at Shiloh, Bull Run and Gettysburg.

    Sadly that is all to often exactly what the Military does. People behind the lines tell them to go and they go and die! That is what makes them soldiers. Unfortunately those type of things are not what I expect people to be facing in a TEOTWAWKI collapse and that sort of willingness to die is just stupid if you want to survive. This is not a board about playing soldier. I am just trying to get the point across that survival is different. I guess I'm beating the dead horse I will try to avoid this in the future. It just bothers me when people are putting stuff out that could get other people killed.
     
  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    My uncle was in the Battle of the Bulge and beyond into Germany until the war ended. His company put up in houses, public buildings (what was left of them), or whatever else they could get behind structure-wise. With the explosives issued them for demolition purposes, they blew holes in the frozen ground for temporary entrenchment against artillery. In one German town, they set up their mortars in a lady's back yard (her officer husband had already been killed, so for her the war was over). The American soldiers slept downstairs; the mom and two kids slept upstairs. She gave my uncle a civilian handgun that had been her husband's.

    During America's next civil war (whatever chaos will be called in those days), there will be no clean boundary lines. Our military will not be leveling cities. If cities are leveled by nukes, it will have been the megalopolises, which are not of any real use in the first place. During the L.A. riots of 1992, the National Guard units sent in to that city were most often not issued ammunition of any sort. The military and police let the looters loot. Korean merchants shot back from the streets and from their rooftops of their businesses.

    Where I'm at now, the culture is such that if local military and/or police need ammunition, we locals will make sure that they are armed and protected. If military units are sent in from non-friendly states, then they are on their own. Ex-military are everywhere around me. We know about one unfriendly cop and there are some unfriendly felons in here who would need to be dealt with.
     
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