If God Is In Charge, Why Prep?

Discussion in 'Religion, Religious Views, and Life After Death' started by GrizzlyetteAdams, Mar 11, 2019.

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  1. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    In another thread, Lonewolf asked, “If your god is in charge, why would you feel the need to prep?? Surely he will save you? If so why bother prepping?”
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  2. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    Watching this thread to see where/how it goes :)
     
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  3. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I will definitely be contributing to this conversation soon, and hopefully, provide truly satisfying answers to these age-old questions!


    .
     
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  4. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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  5. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    Proverbs 24:27 ESV /
    Prepare your work outside; get everything ready for yourself in the field, and after that build your house.

    Proverbs 22:3 ESV /
    The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it

    Proverbs 6:6-8 ESV /
    Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest.

    Hebrews 11:7 ESV /
    By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
     
  6. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    Proverbs 24:30-34 ESV /
    I passed by the field of a sluggard, by the vineyard of a man lacking sense, and behold, it was all overgrown with thorns; the ground was covered with nettles, and its stone wall was broken down. Then I saw and considered it; I looked and received instruction. A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man.

    Proverbs 27:12 ESV /
    The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.

    Proverbs 20:4 ESV /
    The sluggard does not plow in the autumn; he will seek at harvest and have nothing.

    Proverbs 6:6-11 ESV /
    Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest. How long will you lie there, O sluggard? When will you arise from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest,
     
  7. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    Genesis 6:21 ESV /
    Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up. It shall serve as food for you and for them.


    1 Timothy 5:8 ESV /
    But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  8. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    1 Chronicles 27:25
    Now Azmaveth the son of Adiel had charge of the king's storehouses. And Jonathan the son of Uzziah had charge of the storehouses in the country, in the cities, in the villages and in the towers.



    Nehemiah 12:44
    On that day men were also appointed over the chambers for the stores, the contributions, the first fruits and the tithes, to gather into them from the fields of the cities the portions required by the law for the priests and Levites; for Judah rejoiced over the priests and Levites who served

    Nehemiah 13:13
    In charge of the storehouses I appointed Shelemiah the priest, Zadok the scribe, and Pedaiah of the Levites, and in addition to them was Hanan the son of Zaccur, the son of Mattaniah; for they were considered reliable, and it was their task to distribute to their kinsmen.


    Proverbs 3:10
    So your barns will be filled with plenty And your vats will overflow with new wine.
     
  9. coffee

    coffee Expert Member
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    Proverbs 22:3 (If my memory serves me right) says: "A prudent man sees the danger ahead and prepares, The simpleton does nothing, and will suffer the consequences"

    God expects us all to work or not be permitted in eating, laziness is not acceptable.

    Years ago, I had a knowing (strong nudge from my Lord), to prepare....so I started...and a few years later, he told me "to hurry"...what I saw in the spiritual realm was God holding back a veil...thru the cracks of the veil I could see chaos. So for me, I prepare.
     
  10. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if your god will save you why would you need to prep? dosent one cancel out the other?
    I am not mocking anyone, just asking a simple question. i'm trying to understand the reason why someone who believes god will save them also preps.
    I don't rely on anyone or anything else to save me and that is why I prepare.
     
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  12. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Sorry Lonewolf, but it is not a simple question, and IMHO it is mocking God. If your God will save you:
    Why do you buy Car Insurance; Life Insurance; Homeowners Insurance?
    Why do you obey the law?
    Why do you see a doctor?
    Why do you eat properly?
    It is an endless list of questions. Having Faith, and knowing God has a plan for all of us guides us in every aspect of our lives. Prepping included.
     
  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    it just seems like hedging one's bets that's all.
    insurance is to do with monetary consequences nothing to do with faith.
    i'm not a believer, never have been, so it dosent really matter, each to their own.
     
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  14. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    I don't know about the others but I do know about Bon Scott - he drank a bottle of whisky during the day, every day starting at breakfast - he died of alcoholism - I see that as self destructive behaviour, not some sort of revenge for mocking God. One can argue that had he had faith and followed that faith he may not have developed the alcoholism that killed him, but either way it is a rather tenuous link at best.

    I think for those that have faith, as you do, it should be taken seriously. To not take a faith seriously is to openly discredit that faith and would, in fact, be mocking it and, of course, faith should not be mocked.
     
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  15. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    While I'm not religious in any way I've often heard the phrase "God helps those who help themselves".....i suppose it just makes sense to prepare.
    No need to feel sorry for me either Morgan, I'm quite happy as I am, I don't feel the need to mock other people's faith though the simple fact that I don't share your faith seems to make many Christians on these forums angry for some reason.
     
  16. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I don't know why they would get angry. It is not our job to convert you. It is our job to introduce you to Christ and the Bible. The rest is up to the Holy Spirit and your personal choice. If you choose to reject the free gift from Christ, that is between you and him.
     
  17. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I'm glad you are happy as you are. Faith is a very personal thing. If you don't share it that is your choice. I hope I do not get angry when others don't share faith. That is one of our most cherished freedoms: Freedom of Religion, or the Freedom to not choose a Religion if that is your choice. Everybody should be free to choose as they wish. Being respectful and accepting of each other's beliefs is most important.
     
  18. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I try to respect all faiths and religions EXCEPT those that say I must convert or die. The convert or die folks are really going to have a problem with me, as I do have a problem with them.
     
  19. Desert Girl

    Desert Girl Active Member
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    I saw the following post once when someone else posed the question of god vs. prepping;

    A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
    Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
    The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
    So the rowboat went on.
    Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
    To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
    So the motorboat went on.
    Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
    To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
    So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.
    Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
    To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
     
  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    God, by whatever name you choose,helps those that help themselves. The Great One seldom drags you anywhere. You are simply offered options and it is your choice. This is true of both the Good and the Bad in your life.
     
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  21. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    As far as I am concerned there is NO god
    I am responsible for myself and mine
    I can not sin as that would require a god
    I prep as it is my duty as a "MAN" to do so.
    Anything less is negligence
     
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  22. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Wow Lonewolf...

    Well said Lonwolf...well said...spoken like a true and well taught Ishmaelite.

    In the flesh.

    The Salvation spoken of by those in the Spirit ...is for the Spirit and is of when the flesh has passed... not of everything here in this world.

    Being Saved is where one will spend Eternity after one has given up the Ghost...or the flesh if one prefers.


    It is clear in your responses that you have not a clue what this is or implies to those who see, hear, and understand...

    No problem...I merely explain what those educated in the Faith Know about Salvation.

    The other reason people plan and or prep...is that we are commanded that "By the sweat of our brow shall we eat bread..."

    It does not say that we will be "Flashdanced " through life because we are good people...or because we signed up for government hand outs....breastfeeding.

    It says..."by the sweat of our brow shall we eat bread.."

    Salvation for the Believer is not here on this earth...but when we have given up the ghost...gone the way of all flesh.


    Hope this makes some sense Lonewolf....

    I too at one time thought as do you....in the flesh...in Ishmael......but have long since gotten over it.


    My thanks to all for their posts,

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  23. Hick Industries

    Hick Industries Well-Known Member
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    I believe some power created the universe. Many call this power God.

    I don't expect this power to bail me out after I screw something up. I was born with two hands and a brain, and I fix my own mistakes. I also plan and prepare to survive bad luck.

    But sometimes I do try and connect with that power. Some times I thank God for unanswered prayers.
     
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  24. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I don't pray but I also don't disparage those that do. I don't believe in religion but I also don't believe we just happen by chance. How and why we became the top specie is way beyond my pay grade. I prep not to celebrate or negate any faith beliefs. I prep because that is what I can actually do for my family.
     
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  25. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    There is an interesting thing about archeology...ie...science...in studying human sites...or locations.

    One of the indexes searched out and identified by those educated in the discipline...is evidence of worship...

    This is one index which clearly separates animal sites from human sites.


    If you watch carefully ...for signs of wildlife in it's natural habitat....this is precisely what someone is trying to do with what remains of human civilization ...reduce us to base animals...not different or distinct from four legged wildlife..but just like them....self indulgent..and undisciplined....even unthinking....or if you prefer...emotioinal train wrecks.


    It used to be that an educated person was asked .."In what discipline have you been educated??"

    We so seldom hear that today....but instead..tend to define ourselves by what programs we watch, movies...products we buy...as good consumers...and so often we know it not.

    Discipline/Education ...is what separates us from base wild animals..

    And in many aspects of history ..it was religion which aided in this discipline and separated us from four legged wild animals.


    It strikes me today that people are being unconsciously encouraged to become and take pride in being wild animals.

    Often voting and living off the largess of others...even demanding it...holding them hostage and in bondage to keep it coming.
    Entitlement.

    And leadership is encouraging people to become as wild animals....as the preferred way to move this country.

    Remember the context of what I am attempting to define here..to outline..
    For someone is clearly using or misusing Science to turn us in to base wild animals...and towards a definite goal or ending.

    Be warned.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
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  26. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I'm not entirely clear what you're driving at Chris. I'm not in receipt of any largess and have never wished to reduce others to the level of beasts or allow anyone else to do so without taking them to task. Fairness, diligence and kindness are not the sole province of those who are religious.
    I do take your point about those people who define themselves by their possessions and conspicuous consumption though, those who would set themselves up as our superiors if we were to allow it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  27. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    I'e always understood that a sense of one's own mortality is what allegedly separates us from the beasts. Surely a sense of mortality makes the human condition afraid of death and that worship is possibly a feeble attempt to stave off the inevitable.

    I say allegedly about us being separate from the beasts as I do not see us as separate. Think we are? Think again, and look at suicide bombers, the horrors of Auschwitz (and other death camps) the list of "inhuman" acts goes on. We might describe these acts as bestial, but when did you ever see a flock of sheep set out on a genocide mission against other sheep?

    Beasts with the ability to make fire are still beasts in my eyes.
     
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  28. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    God helps those who help themselves.
     
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  29. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    God is a slave owner!

    Willing slaves they maybe but slaves none the less.
    As slaves it is not there duty to prep unless ordered to.:)

    My opinion, probably not yours:D
     
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  30. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Okay, Old guy, I will bite. How is God a slave owner?
     
  31. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Understand to what you are alluding Ystranc and even before I was Converted...I tried to do the same....knowing that for the most part in my walk through this world..I would be walking alone.

    I too am not in receipt of any largess...nor did I desire to reduce others.....to beasts. From such people I will separate.
    I do not like entitlement minded people...with their eyes and expectations on the stuff of others.

    In most civilizations you find people whom have a sense of fairness, diligence, and or kindness....though of different custom and or language....and do not seek to bind others or take advantage of them.

    Without this kind of sense....of fairness....diligence in it ...and or decency....kindness..respect.....commerce among people will not take place.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
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  32. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    OMFG if you don't get it, me telling you won't help!
     
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  33. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    That is a fairly patronising response to what was a very fair question to you - and I was interested in what your response to the question TMT Tactical asked you were asked might be. Would you care to answer the question with a degree of decency?
     
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  34. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    In what way Snyper? When we look around at some of the horrors of the world we live in there are many, I am sure, who strive to help themselves but still seem to be without intervention.
     
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  35. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Every Christian, muslem and Jew takes god as there master
    therefore
    They are his slaves, they do gods work, and god pays them nothing! that sir is slavery

    I would have thought it was self evident but obviously not!:oops: my mistake, will try not to make it again but probably will.
     
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  36. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    I do not see the faithful as slaves. They are willing to be guided/advised what to do/told by the priests and texts, but it is a willing arrangement not one that is compulsory, whereas slavery tends to be without choice.
     
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  37. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    I do !
     
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  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Hadith on Reliance: Trust in Allah, but tie your camel


    Anas ibn Malik reported: A man said, “O Messenger of Allah, should I tie my camel and trust in Allah, or should I leave her untied and trust in Allah?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Tie her and trust in Allah.”

    Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2517
     
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  39. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Ah, but they do get something back, they get what they wanted, comfort from their daily tribulations, support from fellow members in times of grief. They ask for guidance and in some cases receive it through scripture or from words shared by their holy leader. They refer to god as master because then are willing to acknowledge they believe god has the ability to guide them and provide for them, This is coming from an agnostic, not a follower of any religion. It is what I have observed from many religious people. They may refer to themselves as the servant of a god because they wish to share their joy and happiness they have received from their worship of their god. Fair trade if you ask me, They give and get, both sides -- man and god.
     
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  40. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    They get nothing but a warm and fuzzy felling from god, the rest comes from there fellow man!

    Slaves one and all
     
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  41. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I doubt it fits any definition of slavery. Community maybe. Since they are alway free to leave, no bondage. Since they get / receive what they wanted comfort, support then there is no servitude.

    Excerpt from Wikipedia: Slavery is any system in which principles of property law are applied to people, allowing individuals to own, buy and sell other individuals, as a de jure form of property. A slave is unable to withdraw unilaterally from such an arrangement and works without remuneration.

    They receive what they ask for, so they have gotten renumeration. They are free to leave, cannot be sold or held captive, so again they do not meet any of the standards to be slaves. Your argument for slavery falls very short.
     
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  42. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Your argument for slavery falls very short.


    As I said at the start


    My opinion, probably not yours:D

    No argument here just my opinions

    Seen enough people enslaved to know it when I see it, they like being slaves and most would have all to be slaves.
     
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  43. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    I agree, makes perfect sense to me.
     
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  44. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    Short in what way old guy? - slavery is technically a non-consensual status.

    TMT Tactical has answered the original question.
     
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  45. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    Certainly willing accomplices
     
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  46. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    Yes willing
    But mostly brainwashing at a young age is involved, sunday school, parents, religious schooling etc

    Most believers had very little chance to escape the brainwashing so in reality it was not free will at all !

    Except you of course, you were in full control of your faculties and made free choices ay!
     
  47. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I don't see religious people as slaves, misguided maybe but not slaves.
    this is the 21st century after all, what is now Christianity started as a cult 2,000 years ago on the other side of the world and Islam I think comes from the 7th century or thereabouts.
    anybody see the report of the guy who tried to convert some native people and got killed for his troubles? not everyone wants to be converted, like I said before, each to their own.
    not sure what any of this has to do with prepping, probably nothing at all.
     
  48. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
    I'm not saying that religious people are slaves and you can each take what you want from that quote, it's just what the current conversation brought to mind.
     
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  49. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Perhaps we're looking at the word slavery too literally.
    "While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them. They promise freedom to everyone." (Peter2:19)
    Desire, need, addiction....perhaps there is more than one form of slavery and it doesn't necessarily mean owning another person and forcing them to do your bidding. It's perfectly possible to enslave yourself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  50. coffee

    coffee Expert Member
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    Please also pray for them, and maybe soon you can pray with them. If you are right about how you believe, you have nothing to lose. BUT, if the Christians are right about God and all his truth, goodness, and mercy, you will have lost everything, and so will your wife and children, because they will not know of the love and forgiveness of The Father and his only son, Jesus Christ. Please just keep talking to him and ask for his understanding. He will hear you and answer. He waits at the door and knocks, all you have to do is open and let him in. He wants to be your everything, if you will just give him a try. I will be praying for you .
     
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