In A Shtf Scenario, Are You More Concerned About Defense, Or Hunting?

Just our of curiosity, as far as guns are concerned, are you more worried about being able to hunt game to feed yourself and family, or are you more worried about having to use a firearm for defense?

 

A gun allows me to control/dominate my immediate area, defence/procurement etc!

 

I am sure each person has to access their position and draw their own conclusion on this . For me hunting is by far a higher priority , the possibility of outside the area people reaching me is slim . Even if someone did try to get into my survival stuff their chance of success is slim . I expect a warning shot would send most into retreat , if I shot to kill the chances of me missing is slim .

 

I would say I'm more concerned about defense. People can do things that are horrendous when they're scared. I think people would be the primary threat, not finding food. After all, that's what at the very least having food storage and a 72 hour kit is for.

 

In the event of a SHTF situation My Ruger 10-22 and a 30-30 will be mostly for animals shooting the rest are mostly defensive weapons. I'm not going to do any hunting really in the normal sense of the word. I will snare, net and spotlight any animals that I want to kill for food or barter for one of the several thousand cattle that are around me in the pastures.

Hunting is going to be dangerous as heck for a while with all the novice hunters in the woods shooting at anything that moves. Deer are actually pretty easy to snare with 1/8" to 3/16" aircraft cables. You put them on the trails and then drive the deer into the area with dogs and or noise makers. When you get to them you can lay them down with a 22 in the head or with a spear.

A lot of people are over focused on the idea that they are going to have to fight and defend themselves all the time. If you do, you are not going to make it and picked the wrong place to settle. In even the cities things are going to settle down pretty fast. The reason is that when people get shot they are going to die and not bother anyone else. If you go to war you are probably going to catch a bullet. Somebody will nail you from a distance and you will never see it coming. You can't work a garden and defend yourself from ambush at the same time so your best chance is to be off the beaten track but have other people in the area so that you are not an isolated easy pick.

There is a good probability that if you are in a city that your biggest worry may be military taking over under martial law. You do not want to get in a firefight with the military.

 

TexDanm brings up something that I was thinking, however in a different way. In the event that something were to happen, I think a lot of people's priority may be getting out of the city and head for the more rural areas, places that were off the beaten path, as that would be my first thought. These places that people think are out of the way, may not be as out of the way as you may think, at least to a degree. Considering this, for me, I think defense is the bigger priority. Desperate people will do desperate things, I know I would.

 

I lived remote for some time and even though my nearest neighbour was 20km away and town with all of one hundred people was over one hundred kilometres away I still found tracks of intruders of human kind every now and again.

Discovered a couple of hunters camping just off my driveway once, they assured me they had permission from the owner, they did but were over 150km out on there navigation. They got quite upperty when I ordered them off my property and that was in the good times, out come might have been a bit different in PA times!

 

For myself both are reasons to have a gun or two

 

I bet by the time folks from the city made out to the woods they would be very desperate. You have to be very deep in the woods to hide these days.

My guns are multipurpose.

 

Just the opposite here "across the drink".
https://www.outsideonline.com/19031...ey-hunting-fishing-and-wildlife-watching-2011

"Here’s an outdoor recreation stat worth breaking out at the water cooler. One out of every one hundred dollars of all goods and services produced in the United States in 2011 was due to hunting, fishing, and wildlife-associated recreation. Those numbers come from a preliminary report issued by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, which estimates that roughly 90 million citizens, or 38 percent of the population age 16 or older, spent an estimated $145 billion on wildlife activities in the U.S. last year. In 2011, hunters spent $34 billion, anglers spent $41.8 billion, and wildlife watchers spent $55 billion."

"HUNTING
13.7 million: individuals 16 years old and older went hunting
21: average number of days spent hunting, with 85 percent of people going after big game, like elk, deer, and turkey
$34 billion: spent on trips, equipment, licenses, and other items to support hunting activities
$2,484: average expenditure per hunter
9 percent: increase in hunters from 2006 to 2011
30 percent: increase in money spent on hunting from 2006 to 2011"

There are so many hunters here in Southern Appalachia that post SHTF, anyone out scavenging will likely have to be supremely careful lest they themselves get dropped after having dropped a critter. As is the case in combat, if you do not have a six-o'clock, your survival chances up in the mountains will not be good. The quieter your firearm or air rifle, the better. Archery hunters get robbed during "good times".

Weakness = death.

On federal lands, good'ol'boys claim turf -- not legal, however wander onto that which they claim to be their's and your body will never be found. Your vehicle will be found burned-out or it will be "parted-out" and those parts sold in many adjacent states (while your body is possum food 5 miles away from any road).

 

Old saying, "In America, 100 years is a long time. In England, 100 miles is a long distance."

We moved here to be close to a grandchild, who is only 300 miles away (closest route, there are however dozens and dozens of alternate routes, to include taking back-road-routes through the mountains).

Post-SHTF the military will be bulldozing stranded vehicles off to the side to keep their traffic moving. If we bug out, we'll be taking the country roads. We'll take plenty of barter and gun's & ammo. Organizing a bug-out convoy with common destination is the best way to make it. The military uses convoys, truckers use convoys, and families form convoys (when vacationing, let's say, at the beach or a resort town, we've done this; take radios!).

 

The thing that urbanites will have to deal with as they try to swarm out of the ant piles and out into the rural areas is that the rural people that are already there are not going to be the most receptive folks in the world nor the most helpful. They are used to having to deal with problems themselves rather than calling for help from neighbors or police. For one thing there are no police out here in the woods and your neighbors are not 25 feet away next door.

I have already seen a bit of what is going to happen when during the last major hurricane evacuation they blocked the bridge near me to stop the swarms. There were also exits blocked on some of the interstate highways in some areas as little towns were swarmed and trashed. If it had turned into a long term situation there would have been bloodshed.

I know for a fact that most of the churches around here will never again throw open their doors and accept refugees. They came in and DESTROYED any place that was stupid enough to try and help them. One of the local schools had a hundred and fifty thousand dollars of damage from three days of charity. In a small town that is not going to happen again. We can't afford it.

The first wave may receive some help and understanding but the ones that follow may well be shot on sight. You had local women raped in some of the places that took in refugees and people all around that area had break ins and robberies. These were scum of the Earth that just left home assuming someone would take care of them! They showed up with no money, no food, no water and no clothes. Then they literally tore up, stole or LITERALLY crapped or pee'd on every thing they could get to.

I can only speak for where I live, but here, really fast, stranger danger is going to become something that will carry a death sentence for pushy punks and anyone that doesn't turn and go away may be classified as a pushy punk! You also will need to understand that the cops that work in the rural areas are not like your city cops. They are a part of the community and will defend that community. When that bridge was blocked it was done by two Deputy Sheriffs with their patrol cars.

I'm seriously afraid that there are going to be a lot of dead liberals that don't understand that we don't CARE about your rights. In Texas you have the legal right to kill a person to stop them from committing a crime. trespassing IS a crime and if you see a sign that says "Trespassers will be shot" that is their legal right to do it. Most of those signs also say" Survivors will be shot again!"

If you are going to bug out you had better start NOW making contacts in the area that you want to go or you may be on the wrong side of the fence and treated just like any other destructive invader!

 

"I'm seriously afraid that there are going to be a lot of dead liberals that don't understand that we don't CARE about your rights."

It works the other way around as well, if a hundred refugees swamp a farm and get shot at then they will shoot back and they will have numbers plus desperation
Joe farmer and half a dozen farmhands wont prevail against an armed mob. they might put up a good show but numbers count.

 

Actually numbers don't count near as much as the willingness to fight. I have taken on as many as 15 people at the same time all by myself a couple of times. The secret is that most of those types are brave as a group but cowards individually. In both cases I explained clearly with a smile on my face that whoever got there first was going to die in a most gruesome fashion and that today was indeed a good day to die as far as I was concerned. Someone was going to have to start that dance and not a single one of them wanted to be my first dance partner that was going to get stabbed in the gut just above their groin and then disemboweled as I ripped that knife all the way up to their throats.

I am more than willing to bet that if I would shoot a couple of your hundred in their knees so that they would start screaming bloody murder that there would be more hurt in the stampede to get the hell away from me than I could ever shoot. Every day my Daughter walks into a prison. The guards unlike the silly stuff on TV are never armed because they could have those arms taken away. My wife did it for 25 years; 13 of those years were on Death Row and maximum security prisons. The guards and employees are out numbered by hundreds to one every minute of every day but are safer than the people walking on the streets of Houston. That is because everybody knows that if a convict hurts a guard or an employee they are going to probably wish that they had died and if ANYONE gets killed they and everyone involved will die. If three guys try to escape and one gets killed by a guard the other two can be prosecuted for MURDER. In Texas the driver of a getaway car that never enters the place where someone got shot is just as guilty of murder as the one that did it and can and will be executed.

It is a head game and one that the people where I live are intimately familiar with. I'm not the least concerned about your mob. It would be a single person or maybe a VERY small group of people that might be a problem. They might take me out before I saw them. A hundred people will never sneak up on anyone and are pretty easy to handle. Mob mentalities sinks to the lowest level and is as a whole a coward. Understand that where I live this is the way everybody thinks. A mob here would be like someone deciding to try and rob a Cop bar full of off duty cops! More sad and funny than really very scary.

 

I agree with you completely. The reason I asked the question is that when I was scrolling through the guns section here, it seems that most favor hunting style firearms, or old military bolt action firearms, and less modern military type guns.

 

I'm not sure to take this seriously or not? I can assure you, with 100 percent certainty that if 100 of my friends wanted to overtake your property, and it was only you and your family defending it, we would own every last inch.

You seem to do a lot of assuming. You assume that because people are from the city that they can't or won't fight, that because you may wound or kill a couple that it will scare off everyone else off, (as apposed to pissing them off and now definitely wanting to kill you) that they can't shoot straight, that because people are from the city they have never dealt with "Billy bad ass" police, and a few other things I'm sure I'm missing.

I guess it's just my opinion, but part of survival is knowing when your far outgunned or out manned and to get out of dodge if you can. Numbers definitely do count for something.

 

those whose only strategy is to pillage may survive a few weeks but their days would be numbered . I once saw on a U.S. national tv network where they were interviewing this so called survivalist . His entire strategy was to steal and pillage from others . That's not what I call a survivalist . That kind of people I would have no problem shooting .

 

No, I don't believe this type of scenario would probably happen, at least not with 100 people. I was replying to TEXDANM that IF you did have a mob of 100 people (his number not mine) your not gonna go all John Rambo and take them all out. Numbers do count.

I've met bullies who were only tough because they had people behind them, I've also met bullies who had people behind them because they talked the talk and would walk the walk. Works both ways.

 

I have known thousands from all around this planet. I've worked for three international corporations. I've mainly known engineers, tech folk, physicians, medical folk, and oddly enough, artists -- however I came from dirt poor. Strange life I've lead. Actually, I've lead an horrifically unfortunate fortunate existence. Maybe, a fortunately unfortunate existence. Most men would have gone bonkers. Maybe it is that I have.

Urban rural poor wealthy people of every race and religion I've known. Mad and sane, those born in the 1800s, stupid and brilliant beyond knowing, I've seen people born and die. My soul may yet be alive in that I can weep. Contrary to popular belief, madness is no relief.

 

Brilliant.

Herds of cattle are easily stampeded.

Try never to be so wealthy as to gather the attention of a pack of felonious mercenaries whose skill set was formed during numerous kill or be killed military engagements. Even your bodyguards will abandon you.

 

Lever "assault rifle": 4 minutes 20 seconds into the following video

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...39700B32DA2B7C69B09F39700B32DA2B&&FORM=VRDGAR

Bolt action "assault rifles", Lee-Enfield .303:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...76BE3E9FDBFF894185E876BE3E9FDBFF&&FORM=VRDGAR

Soldiers might stand up to a fusillade, but not urbanites. And oh by the way, urban gangs are bereft of any courage -- thus, the drive-by shooting. How pathetic.

 

You haven't posted here much yet so I don't know much about you BUT since you are here and thinking about survival I would assume that neither you nor your friends would be PUNKS. Many of my friends are special forces vets and as you say if they came for you they would get you. The original comment was about a gang of wandering thugs that might attack my familly. We have a LOT of experience here dealing with that type of person and in general they are not very hard to deal with. Very few well trained and disciplined warriors are going to be happy hanging with a pack of brainless thugs.

If you live in the city and have made NO preparations what would make me feel that that would make it ok for you to come out to my home and try to steal what I have? I'm sorry if you find it offensive but that type of person just doesn't have much survival potential. If you live in a city and are an honorable thinking person then you probably have a better plan than just trying to come and steal from me and won't be in one of those mindless hoards.

As far as being out gunned I doubt that there is a single house within 15 miles of me that isn't well armed AND we shoot a lot and hunt so the little idiots with their ideas of shooting that is based on TV and movies will run head on into people that have been killing things their entire life. Every time they pull the trigger someone will die. Your mob will be on my chosen position and I will have the high ground and cover. Don't worry though there will be some nice ditches, mounds and holes for the mob to hide in or behind when I start to shoot. The holes bottoms will be lined with pungis and the ditches and mounds will have claymores in them that I will detonate once they are full.

This is Texas. We hunt people here. I personally know a guy that has a stand on his property and has killed a couple of thieves. That is legal here! There is a reason we don't have riots here. If you break into my property you will DIE. Nearly everyone that I know has a concealed carry license and honestly our women and gays here in Texas can take out any gang of gang bangers from any city.

Yesterday was a BIG day in Texas. I love opening weekend of deer season. The number of armed people is on full display and a lady in camo that has blood on then and a smile as wade as the sky that got her a big buck is about the sexiest thing in the world. Two of my wife's friends got one a couple weeks ago during bow season and were out this weekend for rifle season. One also got one last year in the muzzle loading season. These are both really pretty ladies in their mid 20s.

The point I'm trying to get across is that people that live out in the rural areas are different than people that live in apartments stacked up in a city. People in the suburbs are different from them. The mobs are noy going to be the suburbanites. The mobs will be the center city people that have spent most of their life holding out their hands for a hand out that think that everyone somehow OWES them the good life. They terrorize the people in the cities because in most places the government and cops primary objective seems to be protecting them from honest people. Here we are encouraged to just shoot people that would hurt you, your family or steal from you. The mobs and gangs just will never stand a chance. It will be like a big boxer dog jumping a wolf. The dog thinks he is fighting for dominance while the wolf is thinking about SUPPER!

 

Olde Geezer,

Thanks for posting that link to the Lee Enfield videos. I have watched a number of them and even the one showing the fellow with the Ishapore Lee Enfield like mine. The more square magazine of the .308 Calibration.
They are bookmarked for future reference and quick acquisition.

I have coming a P 1944 bayonet and scabbard for mine as it is something I wanted for historical completeness. A bayonet is not something I wish to hang on a rifle as it makes it very barrel heavy ..but do like the history behind many of these olde rifles. I also want to get the ammo pouches as I have for my 1903 Springfield. For my Springfield I also have the long bayonet and scabbard...again for historical completeness. Again this makes the Springfield quite barrel heavy ...but it completes it's history.

Again...Olde Geezer...thanks for posting those videos..I have enjoyed watching them and am not yet finished. I will return to them when time is more opportune.


Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

Amen Texdanm...Amen,

There are places here in Virginia ..not far from the cities...where the Watermen live and ply their trade...crabbers, Fishermen, Clammers....etc.

You don't go back into those areas and talk junk...be a fool and or disrespectful.

These are hard working, hard drinking, hard playing people..male and female both.

You go back into some of those areas....it can be like stepping back in time.

Be decent and respectful and they don't bother you. These people know all the ways into and out of those areas and have lots of kinfolk back there....and some of them are the local constabulary.
They can be some hard bark people should they so choose.


My non Ishmaelite .02,

Watcherchris

 

What makes them "assualt" lever and bolt actions? Pretty impressive what those Canadian guys did with their bolt actions. I assume that's a shooting team of some sort?

While I agree with you that gangs and the like are cowards and such, I wouldn't underestimate them. I wouldn't under estimate people just because of there they live.

 

Maybe, maybe not. I don't have the answer on that. However, it stands to reason that in desperate times, people will do desperate things, things they may not normally do. It also stands to reason, at least to me that if the food stocks are depleted, you would move on and try to get more. If you belive that the "urbanites" can't hunt or grow their own food, then it also stands to reason that they will try to take it. Considering that the American population owns 40 percent of the world's guns, more than the top 25 countries combined, again it stands to reason that the people you encounter will be armed.

 

LOL LOL LOL....!!

by Turbodc2,

LOL LOL LOL...I cannot help myself.!!! I've been wondering when someone would come along and take a bite of the apple I planted here.!!


Some of the members know better on that one.


Turbodc2....it is a play on words..and methods in the MSM and amongst our phony two party system going on out here...as well as many of the phony intellectuals in the phony two party system...teaching fear techniques to grab people by their emotions...not by reason and logic.


To the anti gun crowd...everything is "assault" in firearms...so hence my mockery in calling them "Assault " lever guns and "Assault" Pistols.

A bit of sarcasm here.

I posted some pictures about my newly purchased lever rifles and called them "Assault Lever " rifles and "Assault pistols...in the guns knives, and tool section.

Nonetheless...that is from what and how the term originates on some of these threads.


Many of us here have worked or are still working in occupations and trades where in we handle compounds , tools, and materials far more dangerous and or deadly than gunpowder ...if not properly handled, respected and proper procedure's followed.

Watching and observing phony leadership in this country..both political parties play the people against their 2nd Amendment rights via fears and insecurities ...got me to thinking and hence I am often want to post...

If Americans cannot be trusted with a gun or ammunition...we will never be trusted with a vote.

It is common sense when you watch the disarmed Englishmen being attempted to sway and or steer them out of their Brexit vote as if Englishmen do not know what they are doing.

And so too is it become obvious here in America with the declining state of election politics and campaigning ...that we too cannot be trusted with a vote.

If this were not so...why is someone trying to flood the country with illegals and put them on the voting registration lists??


Someone is trying to turn us into Englishmen in more ways than one...by disarming us...mentally , spiritually, as well as physically.

" Assault lever rifles and Assault Pistols" is a play ...a sarcasm on this deceitful condition going on with our phony two party system.

The left/Democrats for not trusting Americans to be armed in many many ways and manners.... ..and the phony Republicans for being silent when all this is going on and not educating the public about the true nature of what is happening out here.


Thanks for being that inquiring mind!!

My Sarastic .02,

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

Hahaha. You think you were the first to call a lever action/ bolt action an "assault" weapon? Hahaha. Not even close. Those terms were being used back more than a decade to mock the anti gun crowd on various gun boards, not to mention t-shirts. I asked the question because I wanted to hear what his response may have been, not that I don't know, or get the sarcasm involved. Thank you for trying clear it up though.

 

No problem....your welcome...

However..I did not know that it goes back some ten plus years ago.

Ten or more years ago I worked mostly graveyard shifts and was out of the news loop a great deal...so never picked up on that history.

On the second shift now and still don't pick up a lot of news if I did not read some sites and or prepper blogs/boards.

Getting ready to shove off here...

Thanks for your reply.

Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

This is, to a liberal, a lever action assault rifle.


Mossberg 464 Spx .30-30 Lever Action Assault Rifle ...

 

I actually don't think that the mobs are a realistic threat. There will be refugees but the problem with an aggressive "mob" is that they will spend most of their time fighting and killing each other. Every time they find a source of food or clean water the fights will start. This is just history. The only reason we are having a problem right now with the Islamic refugees is because the urban liberals have balls the size of BBs and knuckle under to them just as they have to the gangs and the illegal aliens.

Where I live we also have a lot of Mexicans that didn't cross at the regular border crossings, We have scads of Iranians and other middle easterners. When the Vietnamese boat people were brought in they sent lots and lots of them into the Texas Gulf coast areas. Guess what they all work and they are actually pretty great people. The reason we get along with them so well is simple. We don't kiss their butts and they don't go on welfare here. They work or leave and go to California or New York where their crud is put up with. Their kids will be proud Texans. Texas is a VERY diverse place and also accepting of a lot of differences. The one thing though that is pretty universal here is that if you run your mouth or expect us to take you on to raise and don't work you will end up with a boot up your butt.

We don't allow riots. We don't allow people to come here and commit crimes. If you come here and kill someone we WILL execute you. Maybe we are a hard people in some ways but I never lock my doors and we never have to live in fear here. If you don't act stupid or aggressive you will live your entire life without anyone bothering you. If you try to hurt or steal from us we WILL legally and happily KILL you.

I have no doubt places like the coastal parts of California will have mob problems around the megalopolises. The same will be true up and down the North East coastal and Great lakes regions. The truth is they already HAVE mob and gang problems. Chicago will hardly notice the difference except the lights will be out! Once you get away from the big urban areas people really are different and not very easily pushed around.

Those hillbillies that you mentioned Chris, well the same mind set is true in the swamp. A Cajun is about the kindest most generous person that you will ever want to meet. If you treat one bad though and they hate you you will feed the gators if you don't get out of there in a hurry! I was raised in the little corner of Texas right on the Louisiana border and used to party over there a lot. I watched and learned though that you don't mess with their ladies and if a Cajun makes a threat you BELIEVE them.

 

American demographics and behavioral patterns are in some ways similar to that of other countries, however for the most part, we have some seriously unique stuff going on.

Urban gangs currently predate into the suburbs, but also into rural areas. I've got some stories about what has happened to work-mate friends and family. Things usually ended very badly for those attempting to attack & rob rural folk. In one "broken-down vehicle as a lure" story, two urban guys were almost beaten to death, however the county deputies got there (the pregnant wife of one of the guys doing the beating called the Sheriff's Dept) to stop the good'ol'boys from killing them.

These urban gangs WILL attack rural areas here in America, however doing so involves horrific risk -- and I don't care about how many they are. My dad's mom would put lead into your forehead. I've got her revolver which had been Pap's revolver locked in the safe beside me. It's now a collectable.

No one said these urban gang folk are that smart -- they are aggressive and stupid. When they catch return fire, they turn and run. They can pull-off drive-by shootings and that's about it. Some are smarter -- very few. The ones who are superior to their kin, join the military and get out of the areas of little hope. It is the latter who get an education (G.I. Bill) and become fine citizens. Got'em living near me, we talk, I give them produce out my garden = great folk.

When LoneWolf talks about England, I listen. I have no reason to doubt him when it comes to matters involving that country. My dad was stationed in England until the European invasion went down. That was 75 years ago. Things have changed "a bit", I would imagine, so I want to learn about the catastrophe of the "great social experiments" that have been perpetrated against the British. Sounds really bad. But England sure isn't America.

America is far more violent. Just is.

Felons have no problems with attacking me. I have no problems killing them. So it goes.

 

So would you say that defense is a primary concern for you?

 

Self preservation is a primary concern for me....not necessarily defense....or offence.

This means options...and the ability to exercise these options. Options created and or put into place by me.

This is why I have a set of factory lock picks in my back pocket....I can also make them myself if need be. Shims for opening locks too.
Been carrying a set for over 25 years now.

Options...for self preservation.



Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite

 

watcherchris ? lock picks , your not getting your stuff before S.H.T.F. ?

 

Unfortunately, such would appear to be the case. I would that it were not the case.

Due to the collapse of civilization and the turning away from anything Divine in origin, those who are responsible have the cross-hairs on their foreheads. It is easier to steal than to work for something.

America is filling up with unworthy "humans".

Where is King Neptune to slosh the oceans to cleanse America of the urban cancers that grow on her coasts?! Oh Neptune where is your Justice!

 

LOL LOL LOL...watched to many movies???

Any idea how many people steel the neighborhood and places of employment blind ..but don't know have a clue how to use lock picks???

Lock picks take skill and discipline to use and even more to make for one's self.

The average thief is not that disciplined....which is why they are thieves.

I also taught myself to put a ship in a bottle...made about 15 of them.

Taught myself Morse Code as well.

But no ...my stuff came the olde fashioned way...by labor...working for it.



Thanks,
Watcherchris

Not an Ishmaelite