Inbreeding

Discussion in 'Other Not Listed Situations' started by poltiregist, Aug 17, 2019.

Inbreeding 1 5 1votes
1/5, 1 vote

  1. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    We have radical groups of people living in poverty . Some have vast amounts of natural resources but still just can't seem to do little more than survive . Some even eat their dead relatives like cockroaches . Could these failing countries or groups be the result of inbreeding ?
     
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  2. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    More likely the result of stupidity. Inbreeding affects and reduces genetic diversity in distinct genotypical and phenotypical ways. For examples of problems with inbreeding such groups as the European royals, native Easter Islanders, etc can be reviewed. cannibalism doesn't affect genetics but can affect other bodily functions and lead to distinct diseases.

    What radical group living in poverty with vast amounts of natural resources and barely surviving are you referring too?

    Dale
     
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  3. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Burma , Cambodia ,Afghanistan ,Algeria , Congo , El Salvador , Guinea -- I could name many more . Actually I was not trying to single out a particular country .
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I have never been to college to study such things . However I was always taught it effected mental ability also . Individuals that I have known that was the result of inbreeding seem to verify what I was taught . A doctor at a mental hospital once asked me to come in and discuss what I knew about a particular family , as their mental behavior was unnormal . He said it was something they inherited . I would have to agree they were a mentally messed up family . I knew of another family that was down right murder prone . Their reign of terror basically ended after one of them shot and killed two deputes then went to kill his own family . His murdering son killed his murdering father first . It wasn't just that immediate family but extended family that carried their blood line went around killing people . Dalewick may be correct saying mental instability is not caused by inbreeding so I will not argue that but can say mental instability is passed on through inheritance so an entire group of people could be infected with a mental deficiency .
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    genuine inbreeding within a family brings up all manner of health problems, its the same with dogs, mate a father with a daughter can raise the possibility of increasing health problems and make the puppies weaker and more prone to diseases.
     
  6. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    There is a crazy guy that my group has to deal with that owns adjoining property to some hunting property we have . Though I have no documentation to verify as he is from Illinois , is rumored that he is the result of a brother sister union . Occasionally threatens us for hunting on what he calls his land . Because of this crazy guy we were able to buy the land joining him cheap .
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  7. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    I would NEVER argue that Bat Shit Crazy is not an inherited trait. Has much to do with how there raised. It goes back to an argument of is it genetic or environmental. Studies have shown that children raised in violent, abusive environments grow up to become violent, abusive adults.
    Personally, I believe we become what we choose. We have no choice in who or what our families are, but we have a choice in how we react to the world and we are responsible for those choices.

    Dale
     
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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Inbreeding can result in some interesting results (at university I had coursework in genetics and genetic counseling). Thank goodness that most bad traits are autosomal negative, 'cause they can be covered-over by dominant genes that spell for "normal". Sometimes when two autosomal negatives get together, they spell for superiority. So, with any given species, one can inbreed them until you find superior traits. Problem is that all of the other puppies have to be drowned in a bucket.

    Unfortunately among particular races and in some families within any given race, there are no superior genetics to begin with, it's just crap from the get-go. If there is no code for decent brain capacities, then there isn't much to work with in the realm of achieving civilized behavior. Each year, tens of millions of people are born who are basically shaved apes. Worse yet, they have sufficiently developed brains to get them into trouble. Smart animals make the worst pets, for they will tear your house apart just out of curiosity. And no, not all curiosity is good. Curiosity is most often born of greed, hunger, or lust. Witness the ferret. Witness the ape.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I think the living /family environment has a tremendous effect. Does the cannibal know it is not nice to eat people?
     
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  10. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Inbreeding is a natural part of the evolutionary process. When a species limits or is limited in the side of its gene pool change is more likely to happen. In a natural world where the unfit don't survive this can lead to a faster adaptation to the local environment. Animals on a small island will change in size rapidly. The various variations in species are the results of this geographic isolation.

    The thing is that MENTAL changes can happen vastly faster than genetic drift. in a single generation, a people can almost go from civilized to savage just by allowing it to happen. Morals change as times change but they go downhill a LOT easier than they can go up that hill.
     
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  11. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Dalewick my apologies after rereading your original post on this thread I realized I had misinterpreted it .
     
  12. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    No apologies needed.

    Dale
     
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  13. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Appears this forum is ahead of the rest of the planet . Yesterday on the news they were discussing the inbreeding occurring with some of our congress's so called " squad " . One is married to her brother and another is married to her uncle . They say that sort of thing is customary in their native countries . No wonder their native countries are such a mess .
     
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  14. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    I've never heard of nation wide inbreeding, that would need total social isolation for generations so no, I don't believe inbreeding is the cause of many countries not jumping on the technology bandwagon. Tribal issues, general war, drought, famine, lack of technological infrastructure, health issues, epidemics, lack of finance et al are more likely causes. Some areas are just not right for development, what happens to Alaska when the oil runs out, same for the middle east countries.
     
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  15. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Are these pesky Democrats or enlightened Republicans dreaming of making Gilead a reality?
     
  16. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    DW, I believe you may have overlooked a category that was being alluded to,...Religion. Something about being able to marry anyone not maternally related (yes, paternal half brothers are allowed). I did know of 2 couples in Malaysia that had married that way 30 some years ago and I believe that country is primarily Islamic and does fine financially. But, I'm just guessing at Poltiregist thoughts.

    Dale
     
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  17. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Dale,

    Malaysia is indeed in good financial shape. It's an oil area.

    The real business folks are the Malaysian Chinese and the Malaysian Indians. They run the place, less political.

    Malaysia has official discrimination laws favoring the ethnic Malaysians - and the Chinese and Indians still are on the top of the pile, economically speaking.

    I used to work in Malaysia Borneo's Sabah and Salawak provinces. Had to use discretion on hiring "locals".
     
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  18. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    I haven't been there since 85' and wasn't real happy about being there then, but orders were orders.

    Dale
     
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  19. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Dale, are you talking about Singapore? Its got whats considered the best education system in the world, pretty much the fastest public broadband in the world, its a wealthy country.

    Religion and inbreeding? happens but not at a level that would change a whole country. You should go back, its a fantasic place to take a vacation.
     
  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If you want to see what long term inbreeding can do for people look into the history of the European Royalty. Entire lines went out of existence because they became so feeble that they could no longer reproduce and insanity, disfigurement, and hemophilia run all through their lines.

    All of that aside, inbreeding is a big part of all human societies. Why do you think that people from Italy look so different from people from Ireland? Any people that live in an area tend to inbreed at some level and this reinforces certain physical types. This is where races came from. A certain amount of inbreeding is beneficial because it is used in a society to spread and reinforce genes that are advantageous. It is the close and repeated inbreeding that turns into such a terrible mess.

    All the very different types of dog or any other domestic animal are the direct result of inbreeding to strengthen and set certain characteristics. Once established you then try to weed out the problems by only breeding the healthiest. People do this to themselves. The idea of what is handsome or pretty is mostly based on what is most familiar to some extent. Over time if the ladies focus on only the tall dark and handsome men the people in that area will begin to look more and more alike. It is this natural inbreeding that makes the different races and nationalities different.

    Much like with dogs though, people of mixed ancestry seem to be hardier and healthier with fewer genetic issues. Pure bred animals of all types tend to have some problems because in breeding for a few very specific traits there were also other things that got reinforced. People are no different...
     
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  21. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    No, I wasn't talking about Singapore. I was in Malaysia. Western Malaysia to be more specific. I was there while serving in the Army. Kuala Lumpur was the only city I visited at the time. Didn't exactly have good memories of the visit.

    Dale
     
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  22. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Tex, so all the Italians look Italian because of inbreeding? The Irish look Irish because of inbreeding? o_O

    I think your confusing societal expansion, tribal expansion if you like with inbreeding. Fresh blood arrives in the 'tribe' and stops the damage caused by breeding from a small gene pool and this is what has historically happened. Look at the Italians for example
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Italy
    I did read somewhere that a tribe needs over a hundred breeding couples to stay diverse so....some of you preppers had better join groups post fall or your offsprings will end up in a rocking chair on the porch playing banjos.
     
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  23. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    I've met a lot of US service personal over the years, on the whole a good bunch they were but some of them just never took advantage to leave their cultural comfort zone and see what the local culture was like, I'm not talking some war zone here either. I think this is a general American trait given the tiny percentage of Americans that go on vacation overseas...most Americans are missing out by being so insular.
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    "some of YOU preppers"..hmmh interesting wording.
    I don't see many if any prepper groups being anywhere near 200 members, not in the UK anyway, they'd need to live in a stately home or somewhere similar to have anywhere big enough to house them. too many ego's in one place wherever they are.
     
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  25. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you, this sounds like you're just writing off entire countries and cultures because they have different social values. Is the next step going and helping them harvest their natural resources, wiping out most of the indigenous people with diseases and exporting civilisation to the survivors before colonising any empty land?
    If so its been tried, empire building doesn't work, sooner or later the ungrateful buggers will turn on you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  26. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Good post Ystranc, well balanced.

    LW, 'some of you preppers' in small groups will need to join other groups to survive, to create sustainability. Go the lone wolf way or even the tiny group and you'll die alone having contributed nothing to others. if thats your aim them fine, go for it...me, I don't like banjo music.

    Tribes have been around since year zero, they work.
     
  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    maybe in the long run some form of village or community "group" will come into being, but it will be a long time before that happens, trying to sort out who to trust and who not to trust will get many survivors killed.
    personally I intend to contribute to the survival of me and mine, i'm not about to give it all away to some stranger I have never met before.
    "Tribes" as you call them are usually related.
     
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  28. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    No, communities will come together very quickly. 'Tribes' will become related IF they don't grow. I don't care who gets my 'stuff' after I'm gone and the kids have picked over whats left that is.
     
  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's just your opinion, dosent make it so.
    actually it will depend on how many people survive the techno obsessed 21st Century, without skills and knowledge probably not very many.
     
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  30. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    No, its the opinion of many realists.

    Knowledge helps develop skills, technology will be around long after I'm gone, we are lucky to have it. When you were a child you may have had access to a few books, 'we' have access to thousands which can't be a bad thing
     
  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that is the attitude of a techno nerd, expecting stuff to last long enough for their plans to work, it'll be alright for awhile as systems shut down one by one but as the final system the power grid shuts down for the last time and everything goes dark and quiet, I expect a great wail to rise up from the masses as they realise its all over for them.
    I am a realist, I know that it will be bad for most people , especially those that have a metropolitan lifestyle, those that think "nothing bad will happen" and if it does "the government will save us", unfortunately they are wrong on both counts.
     
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  32. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Duke in Wales,

    Regardless of the politics, you're a good writer. ROFL re the Wiki entry on "Italy". Where is Metternich when we need him ?! Had thought Italy's a geographical expression. Milan and Siracusa are both Italian cities.

    A couple of aspects you wrote about ... must mention to inject some accuracy in re US social history. Yes, the banjo is identified with the US - especially the US "South". "Oh Susanna, ...don't you cry for me. I come from Alabama with a banjo on my knee". The bongo drum is identified with the Caribbean but that changed long ago. A one-time candidate for Mayor of New York City was identified with the bongo and transportation accounting. "Hey, Mister Tallyman, tally me [my] banana, Day de light and I wannta go home" . Harry Belafonte. The Gibson 12 string classical guitar is not identified with Joan Baez...How do you say "steriotypes" with both a southern accent and in British English ?

    The "porch" is also identified with the "South" and noticeably absent in many of the cold climate areas.

    ......

    Pre-web, did not those seeking knowledge via pulp books have access to them ? Currently, those not wanting to seek knowledge, even with web access, continue with their ignorance.

    ......

    Meanwhile, I'm now in the mood for some good English food; some fish and chips served in newspaper.

    Pass the malt vinegar, please.
     
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  33. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Ystranc,

    There's a large amount of material on current "empire building".

    It does work for some, in some circumstances, in some places.

    I'm thinking of Lester Timor's offshore oil concessions to some foreigners. Perhaps it's not actual "empire building"; just common business transactions.
     
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  34. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I see no reason an entire or at least the majority of a countries population can not be a bunch of mental deficient inbreed people when it is their customary practice to marry their own reletives
     
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  35. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    So, my being there to help with the pirate situation at the time makes me insular. Interesting. Just a FYI. I've now visited 36 countries on every continent but Africa. I just haven't been able to afford that one yet.

    Some of those US service personnel that don't leave there cultural comfort zone, do so because of orders and security issues that the public never knows about. It help keep them alive, even when they don't know it.

    Dale
     
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  36. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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  37. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    36 countries is good, not far behind me. Were you in the Navy?

    Lets be honest your clutching at straws, even civilian Americans just don't travel long distances, they don't 'mix' well; outside of the USA is uncomfortable for many, that said flights to Europe are dirt cheap for us so we can indulge our travel whims and on the whole Europeans are a lot more multicultural the typical Americans. As it happens my daughter popped over to Rhodes with the children for a long weekend Thursday, back on Monday, 38c out there just now.

    Are you going overseas on vacation this year or next?
     
  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    From the Europeans and now the grand majority of Brits, especially the urbanites, I could learn to be weak and dependent on government, dependent on high-tech (yes, I still write letters), and simply to be non-self-sufficient and perpetually be grazing with other people. I could learn to be one member of a herd.

    No thanks.

    I've certainly no problem with a small community, however as communities grow and grow, individuals become more and more invisible. As the invisibility kicks-in, they lose shame, they lose the concept of the moral obligation to be productive. Soon the people are believing that other people are responsible for taking care of them. Then comes the blaming and when others are perceived as the problem, then you are justified in hurting them. As the disease of urbanization increases, burglaries and the occasional looting sprees increase. In America's urban areas, flash mobs of "teenagers" (cell-phone/iPhone-organized huge gangs), every few times a month around our nation's urban areas, loot entire businesses of anything and everything that isn't chained-down. It isn't food they are stealing it is designer jackets, designer shoes, electronics, liquor, and cigarettes. And the sheeple just take it. They say, "Those things happen." The sheeple accept the spiritual rape. Great Briton and Sweden are learning to adapt to the literal rape of their young women.

    Then too, there's the matter of Brits and Europeans becoming lazy drunks. Former Soviet Union, workers routinely lost one or two days per week due to alcoholism. The days they were there, they had been drinking -- this is one of the core reasons the USSR fell. I've worked for several international companies. Field engineers and marketing engineers travel the world. I was a techno-dude who worked on site and traveled now and then, but not across the Atlantic or Pacific. I did however speak with the travelers on a perpetual basis for decades. An alcoholic fellow in our work group stated that, "They drink too much over there."

    No thanks, I'll avoid such environments. Europe can fold in upon itself -- I don't care.
     
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    1. Ystranc
      sometimes you do talk total balls old geezer
       
      Ystranc, Aug 24, 2019
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  39. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    Clutching at straws??? ROFLOL! That's more a Brit thing. You Sir, are proving to be a pompous windbag and another elitist Brit. But that would be me generalizing what your writing and making assumptions, kind of like what you were doing to me.

    Why would you think I would give my travel plans on a open website?

    Why would you put your families travel plans on a open website?

    Dale
     
  40. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Another elitist Brit? Really? It's a bit rich for you to talk about stereotyping... If you don't agree with what he's saying why not argue using logic rather than immediately spouting insults at an entire nation Dale. I read far too much ill informed BS on this forum but this particular thread is by far the worst. The entire premis of the thread is flawed and now it's just broken down into BS from you and that mad old git...
     
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  41. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I just fail to see what traveling around the world has to do with inbreeding .
     
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  42. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Travel plans on a open website, well lets see what you gathered from my post.

    Do you know her name and age or that of the children?
    Do you know how many children?
    Do you know what they look like?
    Do you know what time her flight was?
    Do you know her return flight details?
    Do you know they're departure airport?
    Do you know what town they are staying in?
    Do you know what accommodation they are using?

    You know SFA. If you said to me "I'm off for a couple of weeks to the UK" I would now SFA about your details. Put the straws down Dale next to your shovel, the hole you've dug for yourself is deep enough. Have a nice day mate :)
     
  43. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  44. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    BS from me...Interesting.

    Dale

    My apologies to any non-pompous Brits that may have been offended by my comment. I was responding to one individual only.
     
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  45. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Old Geezer,

    Plus, don't forget China has a long-term contract involving the port management of Piraeus.
     
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  46. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    I don't take offence easily, so don't sweat it; people will lash out when their opinion is challenged, its just part of their defense mechanism.
     
  47. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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  48. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Generally Americans don't need to travel worldwide to find enjoyable company or locations. America is large enough that one can find so much diversity without leaving the country they were born in. Brits and many Europeans have to leave their country to see a desert and a forest and a huge canyon and mountains all in a week long drive. American's do not. It all is right here.



    Ray Charles Lyrics
    "America The Beautiful"

    Oh beautiful, for heroes proved,
    In liberating strife,
    Who more than self, our country loved,
    And mercy more than life,
    America, America, may God thy gold refine,
    Till all success be nobleness
    And every gain devined.
    And you know when I was in school,
    We used to sing it something like this, listen here:
    Oh beautiful, for spacious skies,
    For amber waves of grain,
    For purple mountain majesties,
    Above the fruited plain,
    But now wait a minute, I'm talking about
    America, sweet America,
    You know, God done shed his grace on thee,
    He crowned thy good, yes he did, in a brotherhood,
    From sea to shining sea.
    You know, I wish I had somebody to help me sing this
    (America, America, God shed his grace on thee)
    America, I love you America, you see,
    My God he done shed his grace on thee,
    And you oughta love him for it,
    Cause he, he, he, he, crowned thy good,
    He told me he would, with brotherhood,
    (From sea to shining sea).
    Oh Lord, oh Lord, I thank you Lord
    (Shining sea).

    I have traveled much of the world in my early youth. I now enjoy my country and never feel the need to leave.
     
  49. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I wonder how that TURK , GREEK cross will turn out ? I have seen some mighty ugly looking critters from the wrong cross .
     
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  50. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    There are some beautiful and diverse places to visit in the USA, but travel is not just about site seeing, its about experiencing new foods, new languages, new cultures etc.

    Go to a hotel in most parts of Europe and at breakfast the last in and first out are brits and yanks, in, pick food, gulp it down and out. French/Italians/Spanish sit down, take their time, enjoy the the meal, a habit I was taught by my parents and passed on to the children/grandchildren. I love Spain, love going out at 22:00 for dinner, eating, drinking chatting often until well passed midnight :) You see Spanish families with their children, all well behaved, enjoying good food...I'll be over September 3rd to chill out.

    What is "I wonder how that TURK , GREEK cross will turn out ?"
     

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