Increased Rifle Accuracy!

In another post I mention a helicopter rig for use on my side by side. After thinking about this I realize probably most people here have no idea what I was talking about. There are a number of ways to improve your accuracy when shooting rifles. Her is a picture of an actual helicopter shooting rig.



With any good shooting support the more supports you have that isolate outside influences, the more accurate you will be. All snipers try to have at least 3 anchor points for shooting. I use 1" webbing, paracord and small climbing carabiners for my CanAm Commander shooting rig (passenger door). It looks like a combination of these 2 pictures.


I use a tripod for shooting when I can and other anchors when a tripod won't work.



What are some methods others are using? I find shooting from a kayak the most challenging shooting platform.

Dale

 

bump

 

Get back to you on this Dale..

I have a recently acquired Ruger Precision Rifle in .308 Calibration and outfitted with glass and a bipod..but have not taken time to try it out at the range.

Have also obtained a 14 inch barreled single shot Thompson Contender in .41 Magnum which again I have not tried out of late...and need to put some range time on it as well.

I verily like the Contender series of handguns and have several barrels in different calibrations..pistol and rifle calibers. I verily like to take my time at the bench with this beautiful single shot tool. The Contender has become a sort of standard by which I gauge many trigger pulls..
Very little to no take up ....light clean crisp break and little to no over travel...and from the factory...can you believe it???
A wonderful trigger can sure spoil you..

I verily like accurate tools with good sights...and try to shoot accurately ...not go out here and shoot a lot...making mostly noise.

And today ...ammo is not getting any cheaper as well...nor reloading supplies.

Have an adjustable rest and shooting squeeze bag for the rear of my stocks...on the bench.
Spotting scope too.

Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

In reply to dalewicks post, Once i was up north working on my cabin for a couple of weeks. Now i have heard that if you shoot every day really squeezing every round you can become a very good shot. so i shot 15 shots every day off hand . And after the first week i was good. this was with no scope straight off hand. after another week i would but a chip on a log and flip it over and over and over. this was at about 50 yards with a 22 lr.
I know a lot of men that are very good at the shooting bench, in fact i have my own shooting bench up in the woods complete with chair and sandbags and a large plywood target stand at 50 yards . I have seen them put a hole in a hole in a hole several times ,But take them hunting and a deer coming through the woods with out a rest they can not do. I admit i have never been on combat
but if i did i would like to have people around me that can do off hand shooting on a blink of a eye .
so for me it is better to start at the bench to learn how to breath ect, but after that do off hand shooting because that is what will be needed in the pince.

 

Bill, Being a good off hand shot is great. If fired 1000's of rounds from off hand. I also know the farther the shot, the steadier the rifle has to be. I've shot everything from predators in traps a couple feet away to shooting 50 caliber snipers rifles up to a mile away. In combat shots are from everything from shooting from the hip while running for your life to a timed multiple shots from multiple snipers timed to sound like one shot. Combat doesn't transfer to normal civilian life much.

Dale

 

Most rifles are more accurate than many people can ever shoot. The problem with combat shooting in a survival situation is that there isn't any resupply coming along.

At one time I was shooting about 500 rounds a week and was pretty good, not great, at offhand shots. The thing is that that kind of shooting will be primarily to make my enemy keep his head down and not shoot me while I head for cover. To me that is what a handgun is good at. As soon as I reach cover I will start sniping at my attacker until one of us is dead. He had better be a crack shot and able to pop up aim and fire FAST or he will be the dead one.

Once I'm set in place I can shoot groups the size of an eyeball out well past 100 yards in a hurry. I used to practice that every week. I can do kill shots easily out to 400 yards but at that range would rather slide off and disappear. Understand I say this but do NOT consider myself all that good of a shot. I have just done an awful lot of it. I would reload 357 mag and 5.56 all week and then shoot all weekend almost every week.

 

Recently (due to weather and ammo limits) I haven't been practicing as usual. I'm considering getting one of the airsoft rifles to do some practice drills with. When shooting lead I still usually use human silhouette targets with 2" vitals. I started making my own targets a few years back (a lot cheaper). I still do timed drills and 2 chest, 1 head. Some habits are hard to break. I usually save long range practicing for warm weather and my best range is only out to 800 yards. I still need to practice with my last AR10 build. Having trouble with feeding. I'll get it right next trip to the range.

Dale

 

Dalewick, you were trained to conserve ammo and probably counted every round at least on a subconscious level and knew when to drop your mag and reload. Most of the people that buy assault rifles and 30 round mags have been trained by TV and movies where the mag or belt never runs dry. They will go through 120 rounds in the first few minutes of a firefight and probably not have a single hit. TV and movies also taught them that aiming isn't important if you put enough lead in the air.

 

Even now, many years after wearing the uniform, I can still hear when someone's bolt locks back from firing there last round. Can still hear the difference in a 5.56 and an AK. Except in buildings I never used automatic. Mostly, we were ghost. Never seen, never heard and never smelled (eat like the locals) just so we didn't get into fire fights. We did carry a lot of ammo. I usually carried 600 rounds of 5.56, with 360 of that being in magazines. If I was also carrying a M21, I carried an additional 160 rounds of 7.62. We carried a lot of weight. Mostly ammo, food and camera equipment. Mostly food (have to eat) and ammo. Ammo was a pain to carry, until SHTF and then it became light as a feather. A running firefight where you are literally running for your life is something I could never wish on anyone.

Dale

 

I ran into some guys who were in a long range reconnaissance patrol. Their story was very interesting to me.

They told me that their job was to often gather bomb damage assessment and other such information's and report back....not to make contact in Vietnam..

I found that very interesting.

Also they told me that they felt confident in their ability and safety to not make contact....versus being in a regular grunt unit.

They preferred it that way.....


I found that very very interesting...and requiring a certain level of skill to remain concealed...hidden when needed.


My hat is off to these kinds of fellows. Talk about Gray Man...



Agree with TexDanm's assessment of too many gun people having watched too much of movies and television....


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite

 

Watcherchris, That is the job. To graduate from the school my "final exam" was to do 100 miles through the jungle while patrols were trying to find us, without being seen and within 72 hours after getting the information on the target we were given. My unit was primarily tasked with reconnaissance, but our other tasking was target interdiction and asset recovery. I preferred recon as the other two could get you killed.
Recon covers a lot more than most people think. It's more than sneaking around the jungle or woods wearing camo and a ghillie suit. Taking photographs, drawing what you see, writing down what you see, describing it while not making assumptions about what you see. Working as people think in the jungles, woods and mountains but also walking into the middle of enemy cities dressed as civilians. Act like you belong there while collecting the info you were sent for. Setting in an OP/LP (Camouflaged hole in the ground) for days, sometimes weeks while not being seen or discovered. Much of what we did back then is now call special reconnaissance. It was a true learning experience.


Back when I saw things through a young mans eyes.

Dale

 

I did a search for "sling" on this page and the software couldn't find it, therefore we gotta bring up the topic of using the rifle sling as a stabilizing device. I have ulnar nerve damage in my left arm due to using a tight rifle sling on innumerable occasions. The rifle sling is massively important in offhand shooting.

I've posted this vid. before. It's a great demonstration of how to use a rifle sling. This is the most often used sling position -- which is NOT to say that it is the only technique. In target shooting, another sling position is used, but the sling technique used in target shooting does not help in taming recoil. Using a good sling position not only greatly improved your shot placement, it also allows you to get back on target for follow-up shots should they be required.





The fellow in the second video has great sling technique, however he is using a dated sling. Better slings are available today. I go for quick-adjust slings. It is mega-important to set the length of the sling for your body's physical parameters. No two people can be exactly the same. And given the thickness of the coat you are wearing on the day you are using your rifle will alter the length of the sling for maximum effectiveness. If you are going to be using a thick winter coat when hunting, then get in some shooting practice using that coat. There is a massive difference between shooting while only wearing a shirt vs. shooting wearing a heavy coat. Thus, the utility have having a quick-adjust sling.

If a shot instantly is presented, one may have zero time to bring the sling to bear. It happens. However, one should always have the sling in an initial pre-use position for when a shot comes about. Keeping the sling perpetually tight is BAD for blood circulation and nerve damage can follow -- it happened to me. I've spent so many incalculable hours/days/years worth of shooting, that nerve damage was going to happen. Too, being in competition involves a whole lot of shooting over a period of hours. So, be careful to let your arm "breathe", i.e. get its blood supply back. Here's another thing, don't let your hand go numb. Does letting your hand go numb improve your shooting? NO! Quite the opposite.

I really like the following video to demonstrate the left arm ("weak arm") loop sling-configuration. I've posted this vid before, but it is just one of those "this person knows what he's talking about" videos. I used this configuration a lot ... TOO "a lot". Watch out! Don't cut off the blood flow. You don't gotta perpetually have this tight. When taking the shot, it's gotta be tight, but then when task is completed, back off. Our bodies require oxygen, blood brings oxygen and takes away metabolic waste products such as lactic acid. Lactic acid buildup in muscle tissue is what you feel as "fatigue". Muscle fatigue is bad, it feels bad; it will cause muscle tissue to malfunction.



(Lactic acid isn't the only culprit if you wanna get mega picky-picky; but me, I just blame lactic acid. Why not, it's a decent whipping boy. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19948679/ )

"Don't use your muscles. Use your skeletal bone support." The following video brings this SUPER important point to reality. This concept was burned into me during rifle training. My primary instructor was one serious, very serious, individual.

This young man knows his stuff. Glad to see the tradition continue.



You might watch the video and say, "This is just too complex." Quite frankly, it isn't. And even if it is, you gotta learn this for precision shooting. Once it is burned in the brain -- the "muscle memory" phenomenon -- it is then second-nature to you. Do it thousands of times and it is no longer part of the thought process, it's just like riding a bicycle or driving your car.

Once I was using a bench rest to sight-in a rifle for 100 yards (rare, I normally sight for 200). I'd stuck a one inch by one inch piece of colored paper on the back of a target; being the impatient person I am, I did that little make-do for some final shots. Went back at the bench and put three rounds through that piece of paper. I knew the bench shooting to be only a bit valid; so, I stood up and using proper sling position/control put a fourth round through the same little piece of paper off-hand standing. Ain't braggin, thing is that in the field, when things go the way they go, you gotta do this thing.

It is necessary that to become proficient with a rifle, one must become proficient with its sling.
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Oh, here's something important: When resting a rifle on an object to make a shot, rest the rifle's forend / front of the stock on that object. NEVER rest the barrel itself on anything.

When the bullet travels down a barrel, the bullet and its pressure-wave deform the barrel. The barrel deformation hits the medium upon which you have rested your rifle. In a microsecond, your shot is thrown off. The heavier the barrel the less this effect; however, just get into the habit of never doing this. I guess if one is shooting a rather large animal, the distance isn't great, and shot placement isn't crucial, then you might just get by with it. (Back in the black powder days, barrel pressures were FAR less than with modern cartridges.)

But stick with the stock as your rifle's interface point with any object upon which you rest your rifle. This is why we free-float our barrels, boys and girls.
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For the TV and movie watchers out there, everything you see in the movies is wrong. Actually it borders on, or is intentionally, misinformation.

In a movie, see a "sniper" on a rooftop firing from above the ledge's enclosure? If you are the person taking the shot, then you'll be the one getting shot if you pull this one.

In a movie, you'll see the "lead with your face" technique. Great way to get de-brained.

In a couple of movies, I have actually seen combatants engaging the enemy through walls, ceilings, and floors. Yes, this is valid. You might wanna keep this in mind if ever you are in a SHTF situation in a building. 7.62 NATO and 7.62 AK rounds travel through more material than your mind will imagine.

Rifle scope reticles shown in movies are, I guess, from outer space. Bizarre. Recently I saw in a movie a scope reticle that was semi-realistic. It was somewhat like the German #4 reticle. I was shocked to see that smidgen of reality.

Especially on television, we see police clearing a building without any headgear whatsoever -- they might be wearing their vests ... but no headgear. Better for the audience, seeing their favorite character and all, I guess. However, if you are actually heading into a situation that could go hot, then by-god, put on your helmet. Don't got anything for your head, then go buy a military surplus helmet. And shooting glasses or goggles. When sh## starts flying apart, that sh## gets thrown straight into your eyes. Directors have a tendency to NEVER show this in the movies. In the real world, everything is flying everywhere. A plain old flack jacket will stop a lot of the flying sh##. That's what they were designed to do.
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The cotton webbing Garrand sling my favourite type of sling, I also use a Harris adjustable tilt bipod.
I have no experience of bench rest shooting but have used my rifle lashed to a tree to headshot rabbits at ranges of 150 yards using 22lr subsonics

 

Slings used properly can make a fair shot into a good shot and good equipment can increase your accuracy also.






Learn everything you can about shooting techniques and your weapons and practice.

My best piece of advice.....Learn to squeeze that trigger.

Dale

 

Trigger control, trigger control, trigger control, ...

Remington model 788 bolt-action; economy rifle; decent-enough trigger; rattle-rattle external mag. (taped that mag quiet w/electrical tape); bolt sloppy; it had its issues ... . However the rifle's lock-time was lightning fast. Pull the trigger and the round was downrange ... instantly. Had one back in the 1970s. Cheap, but minute of angle with reloads. Rapid lock-time is pure gold when shooting off-hand.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/locktime.htm

The Tikka trigger:

https://www.tikka.fi/en-us/content/campaign-subsection/precise-trigger

Don't run out and buy a used 788 on my advice. Rear locking lugs could result in stretched cases. Case extraction was an issue for too many owners. Me, I really liked the ugly little rifle. The person to whom I sold it was a friend and he got good use out of it.

Yes, I have a 788 story; friend used it in a bizarre "it could only happen in the South" shooting "competition". "Man and his rifle vs. frying pan ... for keepers." I'll spare y'all. Got too many stories that no sane person would believe ... but that actually happened. Southern Appalachia -- one day NASA will attempt to land a spacecraft there. The place is said to be inhabited by strange creatures. It's true.
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There is so much that goes into building/tuning a precision rifle and the mechanics change from bolt action to semi-auto and I won't include pump action, break action or lever action. I will say for AR style rifles (15 & 10) you will have a hard time beating Geissele triggers. Especially the SSA triggers. I'm not one to throw extra money on many things in an AR build, but triggers and barrels always get extra $$$ because that's the foundation of accuracy. I love a crisp trigger. One that breaks like it just snapped a glass rod. Same for bolt action rifles. I am very fond of Timney triggers in bolt actions.
If you could design and build a break action rifle that the firing pin comes straight forward into the primer, like a bolt action rifle. You would probably have the most accurate rifle on the planet. It would eliminate the rifle trying to move in other directions from internal forces. It wouldn't be a very fast rifle but it would be accurate. I've fired the RAI model 500 and it is the most accurate rifle I have ever used. Having to remove the bolt and take off the used round and place the new round on the bolt takes a little time though. LOL! If your shooting the engine blocks out of trucks from a mile away though, it didn't matter as much. LOL!

Dale

 

Having a firearm is one thing. Having the personal discipline to use that weapon is quite another.

Continuing in this vein, here are some videos that address rifle marksmanship components:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=long+rang...i=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lzvjGPgKE

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A long range rifle need not cost you a fortune.







Now the trajectory for a .308 / 7.62 NATO:

 

XX people taking names







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The Russians know that trained women make very very good snipers...as they are not overly muscle bound in the hands and thus have very good trigger control...a necessary ingredient in long range precision shooting.

Watcherchris

 

I was just watching some online videos wherein rifle "experts" were recommending this or that.

They were not using their rifle slings.

This caused me to become royally irritated. I'm an retired old fart whose adrenaline days should be behind me, yet ... I said some bad words to the TV and here I am logged onto my computer.

Your sling is one of your bestestest buddies. It is not only for carrying your rifle. Its primary purpose is to improve your accuracy.

Accurate shooting was burned into me in my formative years. I started on my high school competition rifle team when I was 15 years old. Our instructor / range-master was a retired Battalion Sgt. Major with several in-country tours serving in Army Intelligence. Do you think maybe that this individual was a tad demanding?! You would be correct in assuming so. Other teammates and I had our Army Expert Small Bore Rifle badges at age 17 or younger. I became captain of our team and thus trained a bunch of other young folk. As an adult, I gained my NRA instructor certifications in the disciplines of handgun and rifle shooting. So, now you see why I watch something online and either shudder or get angry. Silly me. After posting, I'm going to go settle down / get my blood pressure back down.

On this site, other members and I have posted time and time again concerning the topic of properly using one's rifle sling and other accuracy methodologies. Look above, in this very thread, I've posted videos concerning use of the rifle sling (would appear that I'm a bit obsessed). For a good long while now, I haven't found any decent videos. This afternoon, I found a pretty darned good video and was super pleased that this person posted their video. Let me throw in another thing that bothers me and that is seeing people rest their rifle barrel on something when shooting. Don't do that. It destroys accuracy. I free-float the barrels on my rifles so that nothing is touching the barrel. In this thread, I can't get into why keeping things from impinging on your rifle barrel is a big boo-boo.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rifle+sling+for+accurate+shooting



Next, here's a young man making a point of not resting the rifle barrel on anything. One point he's left out is that your rifle's barrel distorts as the bullet proceeds down its length. This "ringing" when touching a resting platform causes a minuscule "jump" in the barrel = shot placement ruined. Competition shooters use thick bull barrels and their rifle stocks have free-floated barrels. Competition rifles are heavy.

I like this young fellow because of his humor and because he demonstrates the phenomenon. Good stuff!



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I have two very accurate rifles.....both of them bolt actions..one in .223 and the other 30.06.....both free floated..and if you can old them steady.....and use good trigger discipline...they are nail drivers..

I very much like them and they have taught me...along with my Thompson Contender Pistol, not to get in a hurry ....in making a shot....use trigger discipline....don't jerk the trigger....relax..and think about what you are doing....

For carry outdoors I verily like a sling....but both of my heavy barreled rifles do not have a sling...too heavy to go traipsing around in the woods with them.

I have other rifles for which I have taken the time to free float the barrels on them...and so do when I decide to take the time needed for this task.

There is something to free floating a barrel.......but also a good trigger makes a lot of difference as well..

When you get a tool with a good trigger pull ...it can spoil you..

My 14 inch Thompson Contender spoiled me on a good trigger pull......the standard by which I now measure a good trigger........take up, trigger pull, and overtravel.
Yup...my Contender spoiled me!!!!


Oh....and Amen on a barrel heating up ...and you can watch your shots drift off with the heat...Even in my heavy barrel rifles. Hence ..dont get in a hurry...let them cool down.

As for being fit.....yup...I too am high mileage......and feeing it every day!!!


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

By TMT Tactical...............

Sweet.......Sweet........Sweet!!!!! Just what the doctor ordered!!!!


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

You know....now that I think about it...my Dad has a Mauser Action modified by a German Gunsmith...to American 30.06 Calibration...but it has two triggers on it. A set trigger and then the real trigger...

However...with this rig..once you use the set trigger.....be very very careful how you touch the trigger...it is very very light..

Even lighter than my set trigger Hawkin .50 Black Powder rifle.


Watcherchris
Not an Ishmaelite.

 

Excellent point having a crisp trigger let-off.

Got two MOA-ers in .308. An Israeli Mauser (BRNO) and a Tikka.

I love the historic significance of the Israeli Mauser in that post WWII, the Czechoslovaks sold Israel a beau coup of military surplus Mausers. The Jewish people ground-off any swastikas and used them to start the nation of Israel. They used rifles that had been used to kill Jews to start a Jewish nation -- sweet!!! Come the 1950s, the Israelis bought barrels from FN in 7.62 NATO and used these to replace the 8mm barrels on these rifles. When I got the rifle, the stock was unusable. It was beyond oil-soaked & we couldn't get all of that out. I bought a laminated stock off a friend who also turned-down the bolt (to accommodate a scope), replaced the original safety (to accommodate a scope), glass-bedded the action, drilled and tapped the receiver to accommodate European scope rings that tighten massively. The rifle is MOA, but it's one heavy puppy. I don't care -- the mass soaks up any recoil.

The Tikka rifle I found in a pawn shop. It had a great scope attached and I got it for $500. Couldn't pass-up that deal.

My other center-fire rifles are military surplus, two of which are museum quality. Got them back when surplus rifles and the ammo for them was very cheap. I'm a sucker for items that have historic significance. I go to antique stores to find tools that I use. These use no electricity and they still work just fine. Rust? Grind it off and use rifle blue to slow any further rusting. Rust and corrosion usually do not take away from functionality. Me, I'm a guy and sure don't need pretty.

Rim-fire rifles I have in all manner of configurations for different purposes.

Y'gotta have shotguns to put small game on the table. Handguns I have in "cowboy revolvers" and target. Self-defense handguns I have only marginal faith in their ability to save the lives of my family. Handguns are a make-do defense until you can get to a long-arm. I've an 1892 lever in handgun round chambering. Nostalgia? Yep.

Me, I'm a rifleman.

Hunting ammunition is FAR more lethal than military ammunition. Nine out of ten people who've been shot with a handgun will live to tell about it. Of those who survive, eight out of ten will suffer no permanent disabilities. Hunting rifles and hunting ammunition is designed to kill animals that weigh several hundred pounds. The proverbial 30-06 round -- been here well over 100 years -- has routinely been used to kill bull moose. A bull moose weighs over 1,200 lb.s. A human hit in the torso with a deer rifle is not likely to survive. It has happened, but is a near miracle. Everything you see in the movies and TV concerning firearms is raw bullsh##!

The 30-30 has been around since 1894 and still puts venison on the supper table.

 

Here are videos showing handgun rounds hitting ballistic gel vs deer rifle ammo hitting ballistic gel. Note the difference in the violence done to ballistic gel rifle vs handgun. Note also the depth of penetration between handgun and deer rifle ammo. The velocity of 9mm ammo weighing 115 to 124 grains is around 1,100 to 1,200 ft / sec. The velocity of .45 auto ammo weighing 230 grains is 850 to 900 ft/sec.. The 30-30 150 grain bullet leaves the muzzle at around 2,200 ft/sec in carbine lever actions. The .308 150 grain bullet leaves the rifle's muzzle at circa 2,700 ft./sec. .

Hydrostatic shock: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-gel-expert-explains.857971/

 

I submitted the above post for our guests, many of whom have next to zero experience in shooting, hunting, self-defense, nor "range-blasting".

Preppers / hunters / poor-boys putting meat on the supper table have gone through thousands, tens of thousands, of rounds of ammunition and thus are very familiar with handgun vs rifle vs shotgun game animal bodily damage. Not true for most citizens & new preppers. Thus, I repeat myself often when posting. I want to make sure those new to the realm of surviving the coming hell-years are prepped/instructed.
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