Is There Any Point Anymore In Having Police?

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by lonewolf, Jul 24, 2021.

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  1. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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  2. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    I guess the question also has the addendum "what would happen if we didn't have police". Would our society simply become a violent looting hell, or would be barely feel the change? I certainly feel that, in the UK, the police have changed from acting like police to "fine collectors/covid police/the governments rule enforcing lackeys" and have been very derelict in their duty of actually policing the country.
     
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  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    to your question "what would happen?", the answer is in this neck of the woods not a lot. low crime area.
    Police no longer stop crime, they REACT after a crime has happened, and crimes like burglary and theft, shoplifting, mugging, are no longer investigated, they are called "low level crime" and they are logged and filed.
    you cant even find a copper around here they have all been removed to the big cities and larger urban centres, makes sense as that is where 85% of the UK population now lives.
    if we didnt have Police at all is a completely different question, then we would be able to defend ourselves and our homes without being in danger of being arrested ourselves because we stood up to the intruder.
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    Here in the United States , I would think the cities and surrounding dwellers would see a power grab by adult gangs " not the kiddie gangs ". Looting , raping , murdering and pillaging would be the expected daily activity . Now depending a lot on the racial make up of rural areas would we see varying levels of lawlessness . In truly rural areas , I would expect people to continue living with little crime . So basically Democrat voting areas would turn into road warrior type environments . Republican voting areas would remain with little crime and might possible decrease as locals weed out the crude . The bigger problem would be city crude going to rural areas looking for a easy target .
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Without sheriff departments in rural areas, vigilance committees would form. People forget that law officers are around for numerous reasons and one of those is to protect criminals from citizens who would gang-up and kill the useless/violent people.

    I had an uncle who would go out at night "to take of business." Supper would be over, the men would gather in the living room to smoke. My dad would take us home. One of his brothers would get one of his revolvers out of his locked cabinet and head out to meet up with his cohort. Sometimes sheriff's deputies would help out. The guys who were involved got cards from the sheriff's department to go armed ... and do as they pleased, quite frankly. They were called "card carrying deputies." As a kid, I knew a bunch of these guys. My dad just didn't have friends and mostly kept to himself, but nobody would want to mess with him. That uncle was afraid of the things my dad was capable of. Dad couldn't corral his emotions.

    A lot of trouble-makers ended up way back in the mountain forests, possum food.

    If I wasn't afraid of going to prison and knew that God would look the other way, I'd kill some useless mean people for sh##s'n'grins.
    .
     
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  6. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    Agree, but in the cities? I mange it would be rather lie Poltiregist's post suggests
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    maybe but I think it would be different here to what happens in the US, and street gangs would stay in the cities, anyone living near a city may have a problem with looting but any rioting will be confined to the cities.
     
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  8. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    Possibly - it's hard to say though, you and I live so remotely for the UK we only have the main stream media to go by when it comes to what is really happening in the cities. What would happen after the initial looting? Would life return to normal - who knows?

    To me the UK police seem to be pretty useless these days and we see more stories about corrupt policing and officers dismissed for offences than crimes being solved. I feel we are gradually turning into a pseudo mafia state.
     
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  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    not normal as you and I know it but normal for some of the sort I knew and associated with in a city.
    there seems to be a lot of what used to be known as "bent coppers" in todays Police forces, not only corrupt but carrying out some of the same crimes they are supposed to be investigating.
    you are right though, both of us live so remote from the mainstream that none of this will have any effect on our lives, not for a long time and probably not at all.
     
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  10. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    There are two major reasons for keeping the police,

    The enforcement of law

    Maintaining Order

    Loose the police and you have a major impact on law and order whether you live in a city or some remote rural idyll.
     
  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    they arent doing much of either these days.
     
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  12. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    I'll tell my brother who's a career police officer you views to enlighten him LOL

    There are not enough police, their hands are being tied more and more and its a job I could not do, I'd end up slapping some idiot but he's proud of his role and the conduct of the lads and lasses in his team who are dedicated and do the best job they can in the current circumstances.
     
  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I'm sure the individual officers do what they can but the Police Force of the UK is no longer fit for purpose, the upper echelons are too p.c., too concentrated on "hate crime" to solve real crime(hence the OP link) and they havent been able to maintain order since the riots of 2011.
    watching Police "take the knee" instead of clearing protesters/rioters from the area is just obscene.
     
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  14. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    It is fit for purpose although understaffed. Social attitudes change in society and that includes the police force. What the police often 'got away with' in the past is not acceptable today nor should much of it be so.

    I'm so happy to be a positive person, I'd hate to wake up with negativity flooding my head all my waking hours; I couldn't live that life.
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    Social Attitudes in society might change but the Police arent there to make political gestures, they have one function and one function only, uphold the laws set out by the Parliament of Great Britain , nothing more, nothing less.
    if they cant or wont do that then the entire national Force is not fit for purpose and should be replaced with something that is. maybe even the notion of "Police" is now out of date, maybe with the crime clear up rate being so low its time for something different, something more radical.
     
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  16. wally

    wally Expert Member
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    i for one can't imagine life without police nor would i want that. although i recognize that it may in fact happen especially in a SHTF scenario...
     
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  17. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    'Taking the knee' was a stupid gesture from a few officers who without doubt got a bollocking afterwards.

    So, what sort of policing model would you advocate?

    Years ago with demonstrations the police would go in heavy handed, people would be hurt. Now they tend to contain a demo and let them blow off steam and then go home. The protesters have had the opportunity for free speech and less people get hurt so do you prefer that or would you like to see water canons and tear gas used?
     
  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Meanwhile, here in the USSA:

    https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/2...-oakland-city-council-votes-to-defund-police/

    "Despite recently receiving $190 million from the Biden Administration, the City Council of Oakland, California voted Thursday to defund their police department by almost $18 million. The city’s crime rates have skyrocketed, seeing a 90 percent increase in murders, 88 percent increase in carjackings, and 70 percent increase in shootings all in the last year.

    "Sixty-five lives have been lost, and 1,300 robberies have been recorded, yet, the city redirected police funds toward the Department of Violence Prevention, “with the intention of improving public safety” via alternate means.

    "On Monday, the Department of Violence Prevention’s chief was interrupted during an on-camera interview by an attempted armed robbery. The department’s chief was being interviewed on the steps of Oakland City Hall, when they were attacked. The suspects remain outstanding."
    .
     
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  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In rural America, there is no shortage of drug addicts. This is why gangs are being identified in rural areas nobody would have ever believed existed in such places.

    Pre-SHTF, be attentive if drug addiction begins to raise its ugly head in your neck of the woods.

    Post-SHTF, gangs that have survived the urban culling/die-offs will venture out to pillage if order and food supplies are not restored. It is my belief that there are a whole lot of firearms in rural England, Scotland, and Wales. I do not know about ammunition supplies. These arms are not being reported to the police and let's face it, who in their right mind would comply with firearms laws that are a rape of Liberty.

    It would be my word to rural folk in England and in continental Europe to buy-up ammunition by any means necessary.

    During days of dire straits, humans sometimes rise to the moment and become noble. For each person who waxes noble, there are ten who devolve into wolves. I've known mean people, I've known murderers. Most, I knew to be bad news from the get-go. However, you don't want to get surprised. Be prepared.
    .
     
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  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The thing that cops and most of the criminal justice system do is protect the criminals from honest people that are sick and tired of the criminals owning and running the streets. The LAST time that I called the police it was about a woman thaty was running down the street screaming in the middle of the night followed by a couple of guys. I was out for my late night walk and they never even asked about the screaming lady. They were all over wanting to know what I was doing walking on the streets that late at night. I got off work at midnight and after eating my supper I usually took a walk. Evedently that is a more dangerous situation than a woman screaming bloody murder with a couple of guys chasing her. The ONLY reason that I would call the cops now is to get them to come get the body out of my house or yard if I ran into a serious problem.
     
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  21. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    I think you have illustrated the key problem. It seems to me that the police tend towards taking the easy route and are, in so many, cases looking to avoid engaging with potentially serious matters. I don't know how this state of affairs has come about but, certainly in the UK, the police are very much. also resort.

    This begs the question that when our previous PM, Theresa May, was Home Secretary and reduced Police numbers by 21,000, was it because nobody called them anymore so crime figures appeared to be reduced or was it because the did not take action against crime and it made the crime figures appear reduced through that?
     
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  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    at one time some years ago wife had a serving Police officer in her extended family, his complaint was they were on 3 year contracts and "we cant plan a career on 3 year contracts!", I wonder if thats still the case? Police numbers have been falling year on year since 2010.
    since then 667 Police Stations have been closed and between 2010 and 2018 the number of Officers was reduced by 21,732 or about 15%.
    only 7% of all crimes end with a criminal in front of a court, that means 93% do not, 93%!!!
    and its only 2% for Rapes.
     
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  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    something similar happened to me many years ago when I was still living in a city, I was walking home from a friends wife's birthday party minding my own business, a patrol car(we still had Police patrols back then) pulled up and called me back . I was just about to walk over the local railway bridge, and asked what I was doing out so late, so I told them, and I was allowed to proceed, good job he didnt frisk me as I had a Bowie Knife in my inside pocket!!!
     
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  24. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    by lonewolf,



    lol lol lol Lonewolf...very interesting.

    I went to the grocery store here this weekend on one of my scooters....with the bigger basket mounted on it.

    In an underarm Rig concealed I was carrying a Ruger .357 magnum...six shots...with four inch barrel. In my right Levi back pocket I carried a plastic wallet containing 18 rounds of .357 Magnum ...HP...semi waddcutters...and also some cast lead heavy gas checks.

    In my front shirt pockets I was carrying three speed loaders...with various load outs as described above....

    My daily carry knife is a folder ..A Kubey...folder D2 tool steel.


    Not expecting any trouble and don't want any......

    I got my groceries and scooted home....no drama...


    I like and prefer no drama in my life...no Ishmaelites. No herding...

    Considering switching to my 1911 to carry concealed for awhile...


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  25. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    Do you live in an area with a lot of violent crime Chris?

    Your Colt has gone all commie on you mate, they sold out to the Reds.... CZG-Ceska Zbrojovka Group now own Colt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
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  26. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The Česká zbrojovka Group is a bunch of raging capitalists.

    The Czech Republic threw-off the commies. Their people are now enjoying more and more freedom. Mature people take upon themselves life's responsibilities. Adults do not need Mommy and Daddy anymore.

    "Czech Republic Passes Constitutional Amendment: Right to Self Defense with Arms
    "

    https://www.ammoland.com/2021/07/cz...ight-to-self-defense-with-arms/#axzz71lv1ZxZS

    "In 2015, after the series of Paris Jihadi Terrorist attacks, the bureaucrats in the European Union found an opportunity to further restrict the ownership of firearms in European countries. They created extremely restrictive new protocols which further restricted the ownership of common arms.

    "The Czech Republic had some of the least restrictive firearm laws in the European Union. To the Czech people, the ability to own firearms, and use them for protection, was a significant measure of freedom, which they did not have when they were part of the Soviet Empire.

    "The move for the amendment started in 2015, after the terrorist attacks in Paris. By the middle of 2016, Czech President, Miloš Zeman was suggesting citizens should be armed 'over the long term' and carry pistols in public, to defend against terrorist attacks.

    "The move to amend the Constitution, and add protection for the right to defense of self and others, with arms, has continued, with some variation.

    "The Czech Republic has recaptured the essence of that right with this amendment. While not as strong as the American Second Amendment, it is the strongest protection in the European Union."

    The Czech people still have the European Union trying to castrate them, so it has been suggested that citizens receive training and become, each-and-all, members of the state's defense force.

    "... It is our reaction on terrorism and the cases with active shooter in schools, public areas, etc. We know that the police cannot be everywhere. That means that all the gun owners which undertake this training and make a promise, will become let’s say part of interior security. The interior security is one of a fields where EU has no rights and then we can say – OK, you cannot tell us which kind of guns or size of magazines we can have, because this is strictly in our competition for our internal safety."

    Hip hip hurrah! for the Czech people! So glad to see people throwing-off their overlords.

    upload_2021-7-26_20-24-37.png


     
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  27. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    One need not live in an area where lower-order humans are causing trouble to have the right to carry a firearm.

    One never knows when chaos will raise its ugly head. Decades ago, my wife came home with the kids and a rabid dog was running around in circles in our gravel driveway. She got the kids in the house, but hours later when I got home she told me about this, I almost sh## a brick. She had no gun. I told her next time to drive on and call me or the sheriff's department from somewhere else. Me, a neighbor, or Animal Control could have come and shot the dang thing.

    Our area had the same crime rates as Japan, but about a mile from our house some crazy man stabbed his wife to death in front of their 3 or 4 year old child. He stabbed her over and over and over ... The little boy told the sheriff's deputies, "My mommy melted." I wish to God that that woman had a gun to defend herself.
    .
     
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  28. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There really isn't any place that I would considder as totally a safe place with no possibility of me needing a gun. I LIKE having a gun on me. When I was younger I generally felt that I could easily handle anyone that didn't have a gun. I was big and VERY powerful benchpressing over 300 pounds almost daily.

    Saddly time has bit me in the butt and I'm not near as certain of my ability to handle problems. Hell I've shrunk down from 265 pounds to right at 200. I'm 6' 2" so at 200 I'm pretty skinny by my standards. I'm about to dry up and blow away!!!

    I make up for that by seldom going out of my little country town unarmed and NEVER crossing the Houston city limits unarmed. I feel pretty safe here. we have more people in 7 prisons and the university than there are regular folks in the county. People that deal with convicts all the time are not often shrinking violets. I include my wife in that too. She would hurt anyone that crossed her. 25 years dealing with convicts on a daily basis, the last 10 or 12 years working Deathrow, gave her ATTITUDE! Actually killers are a lot nicer than just theiving criminal gang thugs.

    I don't even have a key to my house and have never locked it at night or when I go someplace. I don't even know anyone that has had their home broke into.
     
  29. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    If I am awake, I am carrying. I am not a bad azz anymore. Age and injuries have taken their toll but I am still able to draw, see the sights and pull the trigger. That makes me as big a bad azz as anybody else. The liberals rant about equality, my daily carry fulfills that point completely.
     
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  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I live in a low crime virtually no crime rural area, even if I had a firearm I would not need it here, if I did I wouldnt be living here.
    I have friends who still live in the city I left 22 years ago and the picture is very different there, what used to be a quiet suburb is now full of crime, someone tried to kick my friends front door in at 5am one time, glad I left.
     
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  31. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Where I actually live is about like where you are Lonewolf. I live just outside of a tiny town with a population of about 500 scattered all over the woods with no real town. This entire area is pretty laid back. with it being the center of the Texas Prison system and having 7 prisons in the area there are a ton of people that are well used to dealing with criminals. i usually don't get antsy until I head towards Houston. Around here I just carry a gun in my car because it is ALWAYS in my car or truck when I go anywhere. It is just a habit. There are no laws against it so why not. My license is for concealed carry. Anyone can have a gun in the car or truck.

    I have carried a gun in my vehicle for all of my adult life. Usually in my truck it is a sawed-off shotgun. I have never had to use any of them. They are not for making trouble, I just have always been the sort that preferred to be armed. I pulled the shotgun out one time. It was a single shot break action 20 gauge. There were 5 asshats that seemed to want a piece of me so I got out of my truck to offer them some. I had no intention to shoot them. I got out and broke the gun down so that I could use just the barrel as a heavy club. LOL, by the time I got it out and broke down they were all back in their car and leaving. See, even just the barrel was enough to make everyone peaceful!
     
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  32. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I guess there is one good use for the cops. If it wasn't for them the crazy people would drive a hundred miles and hour everywhere and the highways would be an ongoing demolition derby.

    I traveled and drove over a thousand miles last week and actually it is almost like that already. People are Cray-cray and drive like idiots. i finally just gave in and rolled with the flow. A steady 90 to 100 mph did make the trip go a little faster.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I generally get out of the way if some idiot is coming up fast behind me, I'd rather have them in front than behind. trouble with Police is they think motorists are a cash cow not that I have any time for speeders.
    apart from that I'm not sure if we have Traffic cops any more, not around here we dont.
     
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  34. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    We have our share Max....I was robbed at gunpoint years ago when coming home from work at night on my scooter.



    I do not own any Colt manufactured.firearms..

    My 1911s are Philippine made by Charles Daley and the other one by Kimber. I like both of them greatly.

    I verily like my GP 100 by Ruger and recognize that it is a natural evolution from the Security Six revolver as well as from the SP 101 Series revolvers.

    I have never been keen on the 9mm parabellum calibration but recognize the Browning Hi Power as an excellent tool and should I ever decide to go any 9mm tools....that piece or one made to those specs is what would want.

    However....I have recently learned that Taurus makes a nice revolver....7 shot which has .38 Special/.357 Magnum cylinders and also a 9 x 19 mm cyliinder...now that strikes me as a nice combination. Ammunition flexability may become very important in the future.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  35. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    The Hi Power is excellent, I carried one on deployment, when I finished the Glock 17 was just starting to be introduced.
     
  36. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Max...I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say bad things about the Browning High Power.

    They are difficult to find and people who have them are not eager to sell....they seem to know what they have and are in no hurry to get rid of them.

    I am not keen on Glocks for some reason.....not sure why ...just not keen on them.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Glocks are not designed for accuracy. The "safety" is on the trigger. It's a "get-by" tool ... "better than a bayonet". That sort of sh##.
      Browning Hi-Powers are fine weapons. Mine has no adjustable sights, but the dang thing shoots with an accuracy that would pass for a target handgun. It has a Parkerized finish. On the front of the grip are the shadows of my fingers. I've put so many rounds through it over the decades that now my salty/sweaty fingers have left a Shroud of Turin impression on the puppy. OK, so it's been shot a bit loose by yours truly, yet it is still deadly accurate. I will never part with it. Just shy of 50 yards (around forty paces), it will consistently bust 28 fl oz (800 ml -ish ?) frozen water bottles (these GatorAid or Power Ade bottles filled w/H2O and then frozen, great targets; frozen water bottles also keep other items cold in your ice chest when going on picnics).
       
      Old Geezer, Jul 28, 2021
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  37. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I'm not fond of the colt revolvers for reloading. They have a weak crane and don't hold up to a lot of heavy loads that I like to shoot. My old Security 6 is evidently literally bullet proof. I have run some insane loads through it. I do like the taurus revolvers they have a solid frame and are almost as rugged as the Rugers.

    My wife carries a Taurus Model 85 snub nose and I load almost 357 mag level ammo for it with no ill effects so far. (If it was going to be a problem 25 years of shooting should make that apparent.) It is not like she shoots it a lot.

    For a 9mm I like the Ruger Security 9 pro. It is a single action double stack that basically shoots a lot like a Glock. One thing that I like about it and the smaller one that I have for concealed carry is that you can drop the mag out and still shoot it. A lot of autos are nothing but clubs or things to throw if you lose the magazine or drop it. You are not always accurate on the shot count in a fight and will tend to drop your mag before they are empty to make sure that you are always hot.

    I've always liked Rugers and have had a bunch of them. I think that if I was limited to one handgun forever it would be a Ruger 357 mag revolver…maybe even a Blackhawk. With the ability to fire 9mm and 38 specials it just offers a lot of choices. I like the 357 stopping power and I also like the ability to shoot 38 special rounds or 9mm for practice and plinking. I reload so can do that with any round by loading light or heavy but in my experience a down loaded 357 mag case doesn't shoot quite as accurately as the same load in a 38 special case. Besides when I load a 357 mag I want a bigger bang even if it is a reload.

    I have autos and like them for defense weapons, but a revolver just allows me more room for reloading. Overloads or underloads in an automatic are not always dependable. an automatic is designed to best operate with a pretty specific pressure range. LOL, with my Ruger revolvers I sometimes go well beyond that on some of my self-defense reloads.

    You can watch your pressures by learning how to read the primer. If it looks basically like it did before firing except for the firing pin dent you are good. As the pressure goes up the primer begins to push back and to square off the corners. That is a sign that the pressures are getting pretty high but not quite to the danger level if you have a strong gun. When the primer starts to crater and extrude up and around the firing pin you have gone a little too far and will damage your weapon. I am not sure what it would take to actually cause an injurious failure with any of the well made weapons.

    When you are trying to knock down a steel target that is a LOONG way off you tend to push the pressures out there. This sort of thing is totally unnecessary and never recommended for target or defense loading. I can get just a good of a stopping power at lower velocities with hollow points. I have seen some hollow points come apart on impact when people overload them.There was a 125 gr half jacketed hollow point that was bad for this so I religated it to hot 38 special rounds and not 357 mag.
     
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  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    What is going to happen when they have burned down all of the stores and run out of food? Living in the country except maybe someplace WAY out in the middle of NOWHERE will just put off having to deal with the animals. Give me a few weeks and my place will be deadly to anyone that is not welcome. It is illegal to possess explosives without a liscense but it is OK to have the ingrediants to make some of them and the knowledge is rather easy to find.

    Shooting is better and more deadly until you are dealing with larger numbers. At that point you want to have a plan B that will take out larger numbers.
     
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  39. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    If a chamber is for the .357 mag. and one shoots .38 Spec. or 9mm in that chamber, the bullet must "jump" to get to the rifling. This usually results in poor accuracy.

    Another thing that can happen is that the .357 chamber can get "ringed". This is when a ring of corrosion or wear occurs at the .38 cartridge length which is before the full length of the .357 mag case length. If this happens, when shooting .357 mag cartridges, these cartridge cases can get stuck in the ringed chamber. This is not likely to happen if the .38 Spec. is not hot or if one is careful to totally clean the revolver's chambers each time one uses .38s instead of .357s.

    Here, I just found this article (I thought I'd find a bunch, but didn't; this article popped-up, though):

    http://greyarsenal.com/fouled-cylinder-chambers-from-using-38-in-357/

    .
     
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  40. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Back to topic:

    It is simply ridiculous to not have dedicated people become police officers. It sounds horrible, but police are our human-trash-collectors. Somebody has to do this. People who become police officers have to have the patience of Job. I couldn't do it. I couldn't continue working with psych cases. Working with mean people, I would become mean myself ... or the very anti-Christ. I have ZERO patience for sh## humans.

    Police should receive good pay. They should receive lots of training. They should be rotated from one area to another so that the likelihood of corruption would be somewhat reduced.

    All citizens should be trained in the use of firearms, trained in first-aid, and trained in fire-prevention / minor fire-fighting. Citizens should be able to be the on-the-scene help until police, EMTs, and/or fire-fighters arrive. Police and fire personnel should have citizens ride with them to help-out / be observers / be radio-operators. Citizens should have to experience what they are asking others to do for them.
    .
     
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  41. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have shot THOUSANDS of 357 mag rounds and almost as many 38 special rounds and have never had a problem. There is a very slight difference in the accuracy BUT it is so tiny that it is almost immeasurable. The difference in the case length between a 38 special and a 357 mag is only 100 thousandths of an inch and is only that to prevent mag rounds from being accidently fired in a gun not designed for them.

    Maybe if you ONLY fired 38 special rounds for an extended period and hever cleaned your cylinder it might be a problem but running a few boxes of 38s has never made for tight 357 rounds in my guns. Maybe that is because when you reload you have less need to shoot 38s. I much prefer a down loaded mag case to a special for action or pleasure target accuracy. The best accuracy that I have found was a partially compressed load. The case was FULL and so every ignition of exactly the same. It was only notable off sandbags at short distances. Groups at longer distances varied more from breeze or heat risers.
     
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  42. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Years ago when I got my Model 686 Taurus .357 magnum with 6 inch barrel...it was my habit to shoot mostly .38 Specials for practice...mostly my reloads. It was not until I spoke with a more experienced shooter/reloader...that I learned of the "Ringed" phenomenon. And sure enough..when I emptied my revolver and looked in the cylinder with my Mag Lite ...there it was ....the ring of olde gunpowder there where the .38 Special case ended in the cylinder.

    It took some scrubbing and serious cleaning to get it out but I never forgot that important lesson.


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  43. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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  44. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    I have been musing over this for some time now and it does not make good nonsense to me ....


    Unless...............................................................................


    Unless this is part of a longer range plan to do what Obama and company were stating during their administration..as the plan for America.

    And that is......to have a national police force....not a state or local police force.


    This is a very very bad Idea as is so much of what the left does.

    A national police force will be primarily enforced against political competition ...not basic civil or criminal crimes...

    The people under such an national system will go wanting for protection but be subject and held hostage to national requirements as is currently being done.

    Some of us are well aware of this trend...national trends because more and more we see ordinary Americans coming in second, third, and fourth place while Illegals get put on the public purse as future voters...costs the left nothing.

    This is exactly what is happening in Europe...Europeans are taking second, third , and fourth place in their own country...while taking first place risks in their occupations.

    This is not a represenative government.


    Finally this morning it came to me that the demise/defunding of the police is for the purpose of laying the groundwork for a national police force.

    I do not believe a national police force will be a representative government but merely an extension of the body politic...and not the people.

    I believe a national police force will be pure Ishmaelite.


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
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  45. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I want those who voted for the defunding of the police to live in terror.

    I want them to experience up-close-and-personal "cultural differences".

    Sweden is learning.

    Poland, Austria, and Hungary have had their fill and are now totally fed-up with the violence and the chaos that these migrants have brought with them. Thus, their closing of their borders.

    Call it bigotry all you want -- the reality is that civilized people want to go on living in a civilized environment.
    .
     
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  46. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Been hearing some things about the year 2022....and coming planned chaos.

    I am thinking that it may be that certain lines in thinking and action contrast will converge/conflict....and become chaos before then...

    Am thinking seat belts and shoulder harnesses....trays in the upright and stowed position.....



    Picked up something else which stood out for it's contrast with what is being reported here concerning C19...and this from the shortwave bands ...not television or local AM/FM radio.


    And that is that in Israel, Australia...and some other countries...the hospitalization rates being reported are the opposite percentages of what is being stated here.

    That in these countries 90 to 95 % of recent C19 hospitalizations are among the vaccinated....not unvaccinated.

    Here in America the MSM is reporting it is 90 to 95% hospitalized are among the un vaccinated.

    Quite a contrast in reporting.

    I am smelling an Ishmaelite in there somewhere.


    I am suspecting that we will know for sure by winter.



    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  47. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    A few things are going on here. One is that Israel may be having an outbreak of another covid variant.

    Another sticky wicket is the nature of the inflammatory storm covid can initiate. The immune system of people who have had the vaccine is "cocked'n'locked" to attack this virus -- good, this is the intent. Bad part is that covid goes for blood vessels, pulmonary tissues, and sometimes the CNS (brain). When these critical tissues become infected, sometimes in some people, the immune system overreacts and this overreaction is far worse than the viral attack itself. Most assuredly, this does NOT happen with the majority of people. It's just that when it does happen, the medical team has a real emergency on their hands. Multi-systemic inflammation results in shock and shock leads to death unless properly handled and aggressively so.

    It became controversial using chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine against a covid-19 infection. Many chalked-up the efficacy of these compounds to their anti-viral nature. OK, sure. However, the big pay-off was that they could sometimes attenuate the inflammatory nastiness of the viral attack (lowered inflammatory cytokine release). People with inflammatory conditions, to include bad arthritis, sometimes receive great relief when prescribed this class of Rx. But as in other inflammatory conditions, sometimes they work and sometimes they do not work for people. Using anti-inflammatory compounds is all a tricky business. Each human body's inflammatory condition varies from another. Inflammation is NOT one entity. There's not one form of cancer either. Complicated world and all.
    .
     
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  48. Max rigger

    Max rigger Master Survivalist
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    "It became controversial using chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine against a covid-19 infection. " There was no controversy, just idiots including the then incumbent POTUS talking nonsense about its benefits...Fake news and all that.

    Any of the older members here have a pneumonia jab this year (separate from flu jab)? My elder brother (police officer) is having one; to be honest I'd never heard of them before he mentioned them.
     
  49. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    So now we learn that maxxie works within the medical community.

    upload_2021-8-7_18-27-35.png

    KJAS - Knee-Jerk Arrogance Syndrome


    Thing about hydroxychloroquine is that whereas it can work well with one person, it can be useless for another person. I was prescribed this medication for my severe arthritis. It did not work for me at all.

    Major investigations were conducted concerning the the use of hydroxychloroquine with c19 because the drug possesses both anti-viral and anti-inflammatory properties. I could plop-down a list gathered from PubMed. The upshot was that the benefits of hydroxychloroquine were insufficient for its recommendation for a population of people. One troubling finding was that in some people hydroxychloroquine can down-regulate interferon -- me I don't like that. Or, one could give hydroxychloroquine along with interferon -- me, I don't like that solution either, but it was suggested. Here's one article:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32526507/

    I just really can't say that that would be any good medical practice -- especially when trying to prevent an infection that may not be a killer in the first place. Two assisted-care homes in an adjacent county had major outbreaks of c19 among their elderly population; well over 40 patients. There were only three deaths among this group of people who, one and all, had a stack of preexisting conditions. One can go WAY overboard in trying to prevent a problem that isn't a killer in the first place. "Do no harm."

    The inflammatory condition set-up by c19 can be THE killer -- especially when the patient goes ARDS, acute respiratory distress syndrome. Hydroxychloroquine has the ability to block this fatal reaction in some people. That latter caveat is a big one. Can one say, "Take hydroxychloroquine and you will get better," NO, certainly not. Therefore, on a national level, it is not proper to make the recommendation. If this were to be used on one thousand people, some among them would be saved; however, the number saved would be insufficient to recommend such a therapy for all. Other anti-inflammatory agents would prove useful for some among that one thousand population also. So what do you do, recommend giving everybody infected with c19 who would be at risk for developing ARDS some cocktail containing all known anti-inflammatory meds?! The cocktail itself would kill a water buffalo.

    The judgement must always lie with the attending physician.
    .
     
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  50. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    I was scanning news sites and ran across this article....about the vaccine and people still catching C19 though vaccinated..


    I realize that way many more people are getting the same results....from the vaccine and world wide... ....than this person ...but it is a bit ironic to me...


    Here this link.....

    Reba Announces Breakthrough COVID-19 Infection Post Vaccination | Newsmax.com



    Again....Ishmaelites run wild...

    Back on topic.....I am wondering how the various PD's are doing across country as they are very often exposed to the public.???


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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