https://www.defensenews.com/digital...lashnikov-make-a-nato-friendly-assault-rifle/ Good morning all, Per ... Note article mentions that the Middle East is a thriving market for these things. Some interesting comments follow article.
This is an economically smart move for these manufacturers. I do not particularly like the caliber/calibration...5.56mm x 45 mm...nor the .223. But these calibrations do not put forth alot of recoil as do the 30/31 caliber rifles. I do have a .223 heavy barreled rifle in bolt action...and it is a shooter...but prefer 30 and 31 caliber rifles. Also coming to like and appreciate the 7mm calibration....ie.... .284 caliber. Watcherchris Not an Ishmaelite
People don't seem to understand the difference between a military weapon and a survival weapon. A military is trying to force the will of one government onto another one. This is done by destroying the will of the troops to fight. A soldier is trained and can deal with the possibility of death. A war is generally won when the ability of one side to care for their casualties is overwhelmed. At that point the troops lose heart and start to surrender in mass. In a survival situation you are unlikely to be dealing with trained troops. Another thing to think about is the simple fat that the last thing you want is people "surrendering" to you. It is a lot easier to bury the dead than deal with "prisoners". Injured people that survive will hold a grudge while the dead never return to trouble you.If I am forced to fight to survive I want to KILL my attackers. Honestly even if they try and retreat I will probably follow and finish them off if possible. A few shots fired and then withdrawal is sort of like a couple of wolves growling at each other but once there are people wounded I will want to finish it in a permanent way. The 5.56 is designed and intended to cause injury with minimal fatalities. Those injured are going to remember you and may return for revenge later. The one thing that you can’t really defend yourself from is a sniper. If I am going to be in a fire fight I want to have a 30 caliber and not a 22 to fight with. Honestly if I am going to be shooting a 22 caliber I would just as soon it be a 22LR as a .223/5.56. I have thousands of rounds of 22LR and can afford to use it in mass rather than try to conserve ammo. In a post apocalyptic world with no doctors, nobody wants to get shot, and as far as a threat a 22LR is as good as anything. Once things go to a real fight though, I want a 30 caliber for killing. A 5.56 will kill someone eventually but not necessarily immediately. A 30 cal in the chest will stop a person. The 5.56 is good for government use but SUCKS for individual protection.
What Tex just said, plus a prepper has to think about each rifle and shotgun doing multiple duties. Post SHTF, I somehow luck-up and get a shot on a deer, I gotta drop it where it stands. Tracking deer is no happy adventure. Post SHTF, a rifle report is heard, everybody shows up to share. Homey can't be playin' that game. A .22? As I've said a million times, the .22 mag. makes for a great poacher's rifle. It has decent enough accuracy and it's report is not ear-splitting. The little rifle does a whole lot of damage; light, jacketed bullet, at over 1.7x the speed of sound. Gator hunters use them -- gators ain't soft. As a deer rifle, the .22 mag is inadequate ... unless you spotlight them and shoot them in the head. Rifles of 6 - 6.5 mm (.243 - .264) up through 7.62 mm (.30 cal) that send 120 - 168 grain bullets out at over 2.5x the speed of sound kill. If the rifleman does his part, such rifles kill. Had a friend who did neck shots; he killed and it didn't matter the caliber he was using. Nobody can always count on getting the best shot on a deer, so one goes for the "boiler works" and counts on the round doing some very lethal damage. If I need to shoot through walls, I want a .30 cal bullet, a heavy-ish bullet (> 130 grainer), traveling well over mach two. The 5.56 may cut it for jungle here to there shots on communist varmints, but rapidly loses enough energy to be doing much of any penetration out past 200 yards. Plus, you can't count on it dropping a deer where the deer is standing. The military wants to go larger than the 5.56 NATO. I can see why they would want to do so. .
I can't agree with what your saying about 5.56mm NATO caliber. The round was developed for the military and I will admit to not caring for the original 55 grain FMJ rounds. They were improperly powdered and subject to ricocheting badly. Any round impacting center mass in a human target, KILLS. I know this from experience. The new 77 grain OTM rounds are excellent ammo for self protection and are lethal with any center mass hit. There is more to break down about military weapons than just the geopolitical agenda of a government. Weapons are bought by militaries but they are used by soldiers. Primarily Infantry soldiers. That is all the infantry does. We train to kill the enemy until the leash comes off and then we do what were trained to do. As a soldier your concern isn't the mission, or your governments actions or any of the stuff in movies. It's the guy beside you. You do your jobs right so that all of you come home. I don't see that changing for preppers. It will be more intense as your brothers then will probably be actual family or at least friends. As a soldier I carried whatever weapons I needed to complete my mission and come home. I believe and choose what weapons I have and carry as a prepper the same way. Most of my area limits me to 300 meters of shooting distance and I have an AR that I built just for those conditions. If after a SHTF event I had to travel I would have more than just that weapon with me. It could be anything from my M21 SASS, 12Ga shotgun or an MP5. I won't limit myself to just one tool if the job needs more than one tool. As far as AK's are concerned, I'm not a fan. I have used and carried them but my experience was negative as far as accuracy was concerned except for close range or on automatic. Much of the negative issues I had with them stemmed from there terrible ammo. Usually Chinese or USSR back at the time. Just my opinion. Dale My go to gun and GHB. 10.5 " barrel with a 9" suppressor. 1 - 7 twist barrel
There is a reason why hunting deer and larger animals with 22 caliber amunition is not allowed in some places. Would you really want to depend on a .223 to stop a charging bear? Understand, people are a LOT more deadly than a bear. If I am defending my family I don't want and am not interested in wounding the assailants. I want them down and DEAD. Yes, a 70 grain bullet is better than a 33 grain bullet but it still is a long way from a 150 grain bullet in stopping power, penetrating power, and damage to heavy bones and penetrating through light body armor. Survival isn’t about creating casualties, it is about killing attackers before they kill you! I undertand where militarizes like light and less lethal ammo but for survival it just isn’t what I want. Hell 22LR probably kills more Americans every year than nearly anything but that isn’t a good caliber for protection either.
Agree with TexDanm...on the choice of 30 caliber rounds. Also what a pain in the backside to have to run down wounded game....over acres of countryside/Woods. Big boned thick skinned creatures...definitely a 30 cal or bigger. I believe push come to shove..I'd trust my Thompson Contender single shot in .41 magnum more than a .223 on big boned thick skinned animals.. However....I know bullet placement is critical no matter what calibration one is using. And today so too is ammo conservation. Shooting alot does not make up for shooting accurately... Also agree with TexDanm about survival versus military objectives... Oh...in light of the .223/5.56mm controversy... One of the five barrels I have for my Thompson Contender is in the caliber of 7mm TCU. I also have a barrel for it in .223. But the 7mmTCU is a .223/5.56mm case ...for the .224 diameter bullets necked up to take a 7mm or what is also sometimes called a .284 diameter bullet. I personally prefer the 120 to 139 grain bullets in 7mm TCU. People liked the .223/5.56 in the Single Shot Thompson Contender but wanted the ability to deliver heavier impacts and hence someone devised the 7MM TCU calibration. This in particular for shooting down those metal plate targets at distance. Takes some serious energy delivery at distance...on those metal plates. There is also a 6mm TCU caliber or what is sometimes called a .243 caliber from the .223 case and also a 6.5mm TCU or .264 diameter bullets in the necked up .223 case. Hunters liking the Thompson Contender series of long barreled pistols wanted a heavier hitting round and wildcatters came up with these solutions using the .223/5.56mm brass cases. I just happen to like the Contender pistol for taking my time on the bench and trying to shoot accurately. Of course being a single shot...you can only rush it so much!!! So make them count.. You know...that is an interesting sidelight of the Contender Pistol and also black powder shooting ....you cannot get in but so much of a hurry shooting those tools....so make it count. Wax on wax off...breath in breath out...make it count...!!!l Focus!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, Watcherchris Not an Ishmaelite.
On the Kalashnikov series of rifles... I was stunned when first I disassembled an AK type rifle at how simple it was internally. I realized then how they can turn them out by the millions and give them away to so many countries. I am not keen on them but now understand about their reliability. They are not a precision machine as that kind of thing goes. I am also familiar with the AR Platform and was never keen on them as well....though I understand the philosophy in the design and recognize it as a better fit machine than the AK Series of rifles. I personally prefer the SKS over the AK series of rifles.... Watcherchris Not an Ishmaelite
TexDanm, Years ago I did a LOT of bear work. I've trapped and handled over 100 black bear. I've been charged 3 times. Two were bluff charges and one was hungry. The hungry one found me away from my vehicle and without a gun in my hands. That one got interesting.. As I said before, I think everyone should carry what there comfortable with. If your comfortable with a 30 caliber weapon, then you should carry a 30 caliber weapon. Just don't discredit the 5.56mm as a man killer. Marksmanship is more important than caliber. A real shooter is far more dangerous with just a 22LR rifle as he understands the limits of his weapon as well as knowing exactly where to aim for a quick kill. An AR with an 18" to 20" barrel is lethal out to 600 meters with a decent shooter. Fortunately for most preppers, most people after SHTF (and now) are terrible shooters. If someone trained comes for you, then you have problems. Dale
Howz bout .308 vs. 7.62x54R Nagant. I've owned a few Nagants, rifles and carbines. I like the carbines better, but gee golly gosh do the carbines ever recoil -- especially with bullets 180 grain and above. The fellow in this video has a long rifle in 7.62x54R, a loooonnnnngggggg rifle (I don't like the full rifle length, isn't handy). I liked my Finish M39; gave it to one of my sons; dang, he sold it! The M39 is heavy, but man, can some of them group like nobody's business. I like the M44 also. I used to buy them because they were cheap and one could buy ammo by the wooden crates. Now I've seen them go for over $500! What kind of insanity is that?!!! I used to sporterize them accurize them.
I have and use several calibers for different purposes and ranges. My 6.5 Creedmoor will get it done nicely at over 800 yards. 156 grain soft point. That is my long range hunter / sniper setup. Then I have my 7.62 x 39 for short to medium range. 123 gr, soft point. My 223 Wylde is my medium to short range force multiplier and small game rifle. I use 62 grain soft point. My Keltec Sub2000 is my home defense / force multiplier. 124 grain hollow points with 34 round mags. Each will get the job done, with proper shot placement. No caliber will work well if used as a is a spray & pray firearm. Every caliber has an optimum usage. All will work in the hands of a good shooter. Every weekend I see shooters that can't hit the paper at 50 yards and I also see shooters with 1/2 inch, 5 shot, groups at 100 yard. Imparted energy is always a consideration but a 40 grain 22 Lr, right between the running lights is better than a 308 impact in the foot. Use what every caliber you can be proficient with. My 22 caliber PELLET rifle will shoot the bullseye center out of a target at 50 yards. At 850 FPS, a head shot is lethal. Center mass on an medium sized critter, not recommended. A 50 BMG will produce huge amounts of energy transfer but is a bit rough on rabbits, unless you are wanting ground meat. LOL Bottom line, use the right caliber for the right job, that you are accurate with. JM2C
Car door test different calibers, different weapons. I'm shocked that the little 9mm went through the door. Remember that steel rails inside doors has been a standard manufacture item for decades now. Cute couple AK and AR vs. car Seeking cover inside a house: Meat and bone Ballistic gel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2uwoYSAwJ4 Body armor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JwlzR5nPFw Multiple media https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am5avCq64oU .
