Lets Talk Survival Guns.......strictly For Food Procurement.

Discussion in 'Guns' started by Sourdough, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Just for this thread Please totally forget ever seeing another human for ten or 60 years. NO gun fights. Talking old-old-old-old-OLD school survival firearms. Things like single shot H&R rifle or shotgun barrel or maybe both. Think of multi useful firearms, that are light weight, very reliable, did I mention light weight.

    One that get little mention is the revolvers that chamber .410 shotgun shells and .45 Colt cartridges.

    Please just for this thread........totally forget about personal defense from any animal with less then four legs.
     
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I have long wondered when the total shift happened for "survival guns". When I was a young man the talk of survival guns, was small and light guns the put meat in the pot for survival. Then at some point, it shifted. Walk into any gun store, and mention "Survival Guns", and everyone instantly thinks survival from humans.
     
  3. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I have just semi-finished sighting in my critter survival gun. It will be my 6.5 Creedmoor. It will put down (harvest) any critter (in my area -- skipping bull moose or the really big, nasty bears) I can see.
     
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  4. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    A 10/22 would bring home the bacon if you do your part. a friend of mine used to hunt caribou (not me) with a .22. Not exactly legal but in his words, "They're cheap and I have to feed my kids." That's a pretty fair sized animal. You could bring down a moose with an accurate shot.

    I can keep a shotgun shell moving so they are accurate.
     
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  5. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    It has been 40 plus years since I went hunting for a game animal, so my thinking does tend to center on the one shot, one kill, pattern. I have to agree, place the shot where needed and all ammo can make the kill. It is funny that I strive for the most accuracy possible out of my firearms but still think in the Super Knock Down shot philosophy. Good point Caribou.
     
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  6. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    When I think of "Survival Guns" I think about airplane crash and taking two weeks to walk out of the wilderness. To me it is "NOT" even intended for hunting, for that you would carry a different firearm. I think its job is 95% put small game in the camp pot, and 5% protection from possible problem four legged animals.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  7. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    A 10-22 with a good scope would be hard to beat. I am pretty fond of my little AR-7 too. If you want lightweight you just can't do much better. I would think that the Savage 42 22LR over a 410 barrel is a great game getter. I have a Ruger Mk II 22lr with a 6 7/8" barrel that is almost as accurate as a rifle and a Taurus 94 with a 6" barrel that will take rabbits and such. It is hard to go wrong with one of the combo barreled shotgun/ 22LR gun sets. You can even get them with a deer rifled barrel too.

    You don't need a big rifle to take critters up to deer in wooded areas. You just need to place your shots with precision. If you can hunt squirrels with a 22 or you can drop a deer with that rifle. Eye and ear shots drop them right down. Poachers do it all the time.

    For food provide I can't see the need for much of anything but 22LR, 410 and 20 gauge shotguns. I will tell you that in the event of a fall I have a 410 snake charmer 410 that will become my best friend. I am thinking of maybe getting a 20ga made with the same pistol grip stock.

    In the event of the fall, I won't be doing a lot of hunting. Hunting is a sport and if I'm feeding my family it isn't a game so I will be cheating.

    It helps that we don't have bears, big cats, packs of wolves or deer bigger than whitetails here. I also will be hunting in forests so shots over 100 yards will be rare.

    I'm not sure that over time you won't be better off to learn how to make and use primitive tools for hunting. Spears, atlatls, Bows & Arrows and throwing sticks are renewable and replaceable tools.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  8. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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  9. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Another factor is the ammo should also be fairly small in size and kind'a light. I have long-long-long wished S&W would make a "Target Master" in 256 Win. Magnum. That is a 357 Magnum case necked down to 25 caliber. Even better would be the .357 Maximum necked down. It is hard to beat the S&W .357 Mag. "Target Master".
     
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  10. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Last week I picked up some more .22 LR target / sub-sonic. I've got several .22 rifles and a target pistol. Gotta bull barrel 10/22. I've given .22 rifles to my "kids". This and 20 ga. shotguns with all varieties of chokes and the rifled barrel will put the vast majority of food on the table.

    Small game = stew-pot food or gravy.

    Gotta have a center-fire accurate rifle to reach out and drop a deer. Let me say "accurate" again. If you have a rifle with which you've tested all manner of ammo, yet still it disappoints in the accuracy department, get rid of it. Find something accurate? Keep it.

    Go for neck shots on deer so that little meat will be lost. This gets back to the accuracy thingy. Neck shot = you don't gotta track it. Likely, it's dead before it hits the ground. Break the spine or if you are too low, then you cut the jugular or the carotids. Too high, you miss. Too low, you miss. Therefore, get good.

    Primitive times, dropping deer meant feeding families & the tribe. We are wolves.

    Let me recommend the air rifle for sitting birds and squirrels/rabbits who have become unafraid of humans. Lure them, shoot them ... quietly so. Nobody will know.
     
  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I can see a lot of potential in that. I wonder what it would cost to have screw in chocks tubes installed.
    This is a 20 ga snake charmer. I currently have the 410 version and with a sling it is a very easy carry.

    8250e82a655f95ca3253ea37e6958a27.jpeg
     
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  12. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Re-reading the original post (IBME even emphasized twice) light weight, then I have to go with the 22lr. Ammo light, rifle light weight and accurate up to about 100 yards. Yes, I know there are some 22LR that will do more than 100 yards but for the average shooters, 100 is about the best you can count on with a 22lr.
     
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  13. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    That is a great survival gun Tex. I have a single shot 12Ga. with a 20Ga. insert. I want to pick up a .32 ACP insert for it. That would give me a very quiet gun. The barrel would muffle the sound and absorb the heat from the gasses.
     
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  14. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Well........we are all going to have different opinions, but I did want to steer it away from hunting rifle size ammo. I love .22 LR firearms, but not for Alaska, especially where I live. To many bears here.
     
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  15. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Strangely the whole "Insert" thing got a bad name, from Internet experts that had never seen one, putting the bad mouth on them. I think I have 12 inserts. What I like is I can carry the 20 ga. or 12 ga. for bear protection, and just slip in the .410 adapter if I see a tasty grouse.
     
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  16. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I have three of the H&R "SURVIVOR" firearms that shoot both .45 Colt and 2 1/2" or 3".410 and I have the Tarsus revolver that takes the same .45 Colt and .410 shot shells. It is double action, and you can get some hot and heavy grain FNHC for the .45 Colt, making it a "Fair" Bear insurance tool. They also make the same revolver in .454 Casull and/or 3" .410 shot shell.

    34RyLge3jo3897cEhkNiNEYrvm8YN1v4.jpeg

    Survivor® | .410/45 Colt
    When the going gets rough, rely on this rock-solid, go-anywhere, do everything design. Take your pick of shotgun, heavy-barreled rifle or 410 Bore/45 Colt configurations to meet any challenge. The high-density polymer stock has a thumbhole/pistol-grip design and a convenient storage compartment. Models in 410 Bore/45 Colt are available in either a blued finish or an electroless nickel finish for harsh environments – they have a fully rifled barrel, and a screw-in choke for shotgun use. Our Transfer Bar System provides an added measure of safety. Standard shotguns have a modified choke.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  17. elkhound

    elkhound Master Survivalist
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    savage 24..one from the 60's...22mag/20gauge..suitable for lower 48.
     
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  18. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I agree 100%........I have owned about (20) Twenty of the Savage M-24 firearms in several configurations. The biggest weak point in the Savage M-24 is the "Lame" Sights (read nearly useless) and the pathetic scope mounting grooves.
    I have owned several of the Savage M-24C which is the "Camper Model", it is the nearest of the M-24's to being a true Survival Gun.
     
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  19. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The Savage 42s are getting good reviews. I was reading a review of one in Backwoodsman Magazine yesterday.
     
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  20. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    IBME: You hit the Daily Double with that combo. A rifle and pistol that both fire two calibers heavy enough to take down most game in your area. It is a little more than I would need, but still an excellent choice. I would opt for the .22LR and 410 combo.

    I guess it depends on where you are in Alaska, you may have them as well, but we have a substantial amount of fowl; turkey, geese, ducks, dove. These are often forgotten when you think of survival food. A shotgun is always a good choice.
     
  21. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Winchester sells a .410 shelsl that is loaded with (5) Five triple Ought Buck pellets, those are 33 caliber.
     
  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There used to be several variants of the Savage 24. I wish I had got a 24D or 24V back then. the 24D was a 357 mag over a 20 ga and the 24V was a centerfirrifle round over a 20 ga shotgun. I really like the 20 ga and now would have chamber inserts so it could shoot 410 shells as well. A 22LR over a 20ga would be my first choice. With slugs, buckshot and barrel inserts this would be a do it all gun.
     
  23. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Long ago they made a M-24 with 30-30 over 12 ga. (that would be a woop'ass Alaska "walkabout" gun).
     
  24. elkhound

    elkhound Master Survivalist
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    i seen a 30/30/12ga combo it had a black plastic stock and screw in chokes.


    back in the day you could get 222,223,243,308,30-06, even a few 7x57 and i am thinking a 8mm too. they were called savage 2400
     
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  25. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    That was a double stupid idea they had. the things were 9 pounds and huge with 24" barrels. Massive market idea failure. It also had a huge receiver.
     
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  26. elkhound

    elkhound Master Survivalist
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    the 30/30 combo savage made....the 2400 was made by another manufacturer by contract,they were fancy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    for small game an air rifle is sufficient and wont make too much noise.
     
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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Since there are no polar bears or big grizzlies in my neck of the woods. I would go with air rifle, 22 lr. and my new and truly loved 6.5 Creedmoor.
     
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  29. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    A .22 air rifle would be great but .30 cal or .357 air rifle would be better. that would be good for deer and even moose, if you did your part.
     
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  30. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Air rifles are not quiet.
     
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  31. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Ruger 10-22 is my choice for a survival rifle. I do like IBME's idea of a multi caliber set. Maybe one day.
     
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  32. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I really love the 10-22 but I am having difficulty in deciding on the 10-22 or the Ruger precision 22 lr, bolt. I am an accuracy not case, so I am looking for top performance, without going totally crazy.
     
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  33. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    They can be.
    They are usually not as loud as a non-suppressed firearm.
    https://www.edgunwest.com/
     
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  34. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Quite is a relative term. unsuppressed firearm is loud, suppressed is quieter, sub-sonic suppressed firearm is even quieter still. Nothing is silent, not even a bow and arrow.
     
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  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I never said air rifles were silent, I said they didn't make too much noise.
     
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  36. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    I have just upgraded my air rifle and damn they are loud compared to my old one, a lot more powerfull also!

    Most pots will have meat from small game not big game hence the upgrade to the air rifle and lots a subsonics for the .22's
     
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  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    British air rifles are only legally allowed to be a maximum of 12ft/lbs, this is powerful enough to take down any of our small game and wild fowl but not something like a deer.
    they are not silent but don't make a lot of noise unlike something like a shotgun which I can hear in my locality over several miles.
     
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  38. BGprepper

    BGprepper New Member
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    It would be a .22 rifle. Action doesn’t matter, but probably a 10-22. You can kill anything with a .22, and 500 rounds can be carried easily. With this you can keep your self in meat for a long time. Another great survival gun would be a Stevens .22/.410 over under.
     
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  39. Patience

    Patience Member
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    I can't speak for your area or what you might encounter. Here, in Illinois, during the winter I hunt rabbit with a Ruger mkII. Walk out of town, hit some back roads, look for scrubby trees near the ditch, look for tracks, bam. On good days I get head shots, on bad days I get a gut shot and end up doing a lot more cleaning. So I can say a .22 pistol or rifle can feed you.

    During the summer, I have to use a .12 gauge, mines just a cheap Charles Daley semi. When a rabbit or grouse breaks, I cant hit it with a .22, but most times I'll tumble it with the 12 gauge.

    You might be more concerned with bigger game. I have seen cows put down with a .22 rifle, and deer. I've shot a rabbit with a .17 HMR, and it hit the hip and just blew it into chunks of meat.

    Definitely depends on you, your location, and your prey.

    Here, I got lucky, and a .22 and a 12 gauge covers a lot of ground.

    My only regret is that neither my Ruger Mk II, or the 12 gauge, accomodate a good tactical flashlight. Having an underslung rail for a switchable light would be really, really nice for early dawn/dusk.

    Still, its not a deal breaker.
     
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  40. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
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    actually i do have an H and R single shot shotgun. I consider this the perfect survival gun and here is why
    1) you could carry in you shirt pocket . slugs, 00 buck shot, BB turkeys , # 4 for ducks or rabbits , #7 and half for partridge. So you have all your bases covered if you are out hunting. just change the round in the chamber , so easy with this gun , and you are ready.
    2) it is very light so you will carry it with you at all time so you are always armed. I myself would put 00 buck it as a go to round . it can handle just about everything.
    3) it comes up to the shoulder very fast so you could be quick on the draw so to speak.
    4) virtually no moving parts so nothing to break or wear out.
     
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  41. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have a Crossman pump style air pistol that can easily feed me and mine. I like it because it will shoot BBs and pellets. We have lots of birds and this is perfect for bird-killing. I won't be hunting deer, squirrels or rabbits I will catch them with snares and traps then dispatch them with a spear. Even a Red Rider BB gun will do for birds. For a firearm, I think that a 10-22 will do anything that I would need. If I want to shoot a deer I'm going to spotlight it at night and shoot the eyeshine and a 22 does fine for that. Survival isn't a sport and has very few rules for me other than don't waste what you kill.
     
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  42. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    for me a 94 Winchester in 30-30. Peepsights, sling and some buckshot loads and some full power loads. Would love to have a handgun in 22 lr along too.

    I'm a trapper though and would not use a firearm unless I absolutely had the need.
     
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  43. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Savage Mark II.jpg Here in the Appalachian mountains I prefer a bolt action 22LR rifle. Scope and iron sights as well as a suppressor (using subsonic ammo), so that firing at game doesn't spook other game in the area. That will take everything in my area up to black bear or large hogs. I can fire mine with deer near and they raise there ears in the direction that the round impacted. I can take small game with my pellet rifle (22 cal.) and can easily kill raccoon, ground hog and porky size game. Beyond that I also have a crossbow and bolts as well as a slingshot. If I needed I have an atlatl and darts for medium and large game.

    Dale
     
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  44. poltiregist

    poltiregist Legendary Survivalist
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    that rifle is impressive .
     
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    1. Dalewick
      Thanks.
       
      Dalewick, Mar 24, 2020
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  45. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Active Member
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    Since this is strictly a hunting proposition than my 22lr bolt rifle, 30/30,and 20 gauge should be more than enough for me.
     
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  46. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I have probably posted this before but don't remember. Townsend Whelen tramped around various wilderness areas. He carried a 03 springfield in 30-06 customized by Griffin and Howe. It is a nice looking rifle. I have a couple gunsmithing books by James V. Howe, I assume that is the Howe in Griffin and Howe. Anyhoo Townsend was a advocate of a high powered rifle with high powered loads and his loads that he called "grouse loads". Not saying he is right or wrong, really wasn't a long term survival situation.
     
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  47. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Active Member
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    A really good read is Survival Guns by Mel Tappan. Some of the guns he recommended are no longer available but the information is still very valid today.
     
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  48. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I read that Mel Tappan book 30 or 40 years ago and it had a great effect on my gun choices and survival philosophy. I still have it and like to visit it again every so often. On the covers inside are gun lists that I made in my 20s most of which I got eventually. I still prefer old school and only in the last few years have I bought three or four automatic pistols.
     
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  49. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Active Member
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    Still have my copy of it.
     
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