Lonewolf Survival Realities Vs. The Group (and Bigger Is Better) Theory.

Discussion in 'General Q&A' started by IBME, Feb 7, 2019.

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  1. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    I am deeply committed to Lone wolf survival. I would consider being part of a very small group, but it would have to be a very-very special group. And the painful truth is, such a group is highly unlikely to want me.

    I have tried and tried to see any possible way that a large group could function without a very strong family or quasi-family type bond. Even then I can't see how more then just a very few of the group would survive.

    Even family based groups I would expect to have too few hard worker/producers to compensate for the massive dead weight.

    What say you.....???
     
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Being a bit arrogant in my belief that I am reasonably intelligent, I would have great difficulty in being part of a group (MAG). I have to agree with IBME, that the group most likely to survive would be a strong family group. They already have a leader and an established pecking order. They know each others ability, weak and strong points and would die for each other. Folks that just get together in tough times will not have those same strengths. To me, there are too many unknowns in an untested group. Talk is cheap when it comes to a group but family is a known factor. For better or worse I will stick with the family group.
     
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  3. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Have you ever heard of the Army? There are all sorts of huge groups that function well as a group. The thing that makes it work is common aims and values and a disciplined plan. Not everyone makes a good soldier. The fact is though that a group of soldiers have very little trouble overcoming individual problem people. I will be a part of a group. It will have rules and there will be a strong leader. People that don't fit will leave. This basic tribal structure has worked on every continent with every type of people through out history. Understand, a lone wolf is a dead end in a wolf pack. They never reproduce and when they get older they starve to death. Native Americans wisely used a version of pack law to form their tribes. It worked. My wolf is not just a pretty picture for my Avatar. The wolf is my spirit guide and I use their way to often guide me.
     
  4. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    TexDamn I agree with some of your logic. There were two key points in your synapse. 1) Disincline. 2) Strong Leadership. It is easy to kick a poor soldier out prior to a major SHTF but would be very risky after an event. The military can imprison or even execute a bad soldier, will the group abide by those rules? I do agree there can be strength in numbers but there is also the potential for catastrophe. To me the family group is the best possibilities for numbers. Yes a Lone wolf does have very limited options and only gets weaker with age. Please note that many tribes used to abandon their elderly when they became a liability to the tribe. Each person is going to have to assess what will benefit them the most. Since I am such a poor judge of character, the family group is my best option. If the family situation is not available, then it will be Lone Wolf. I would rather die from my mistake than from somebody else's mistake.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  5. Alaskajohn

    Alaskajohn Expert Member
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    My family is my group, which is my wife and two adult sons (assuming they can make it out to us). I have built strong relationships with the two other families who have homesteads near our place. We would support and work with each other informally. Being the newb in the area, they are much further prepared than I am. While each of us are prepared to support ourselves, we have agreed to work collaboratively together when the time comes. No ones in charge.
     
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  6. Oldguy

    Oldguy Master Survivalist
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    I plan to go lone wolf to start with then either form a group or join a small group as time gos on.
    Any group formed prior to an event will fail as each will see the trigger event differently and the path differently and to top it off none will have suffered enough to adapt there thinking to the new normal and they will continue there current thinking.

    I would join a group that has suffered through the event and have done some hard yards to adjust to the new normal.
    Nothing like a month or two with no food, no bed and no hope to adjust ones thinking
    I know if I had been doing it tough I would be thankful to be accepted into a group and for sure would not be rocking the boat! yep I would be sucking up somewhat to avoid being kicked out!
     
  7. Brownbear

    Brownbear Expert Member
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    I am inclined more towards a lone wolf outlook. The key problem with working as a group is the dynamic is governed by strength of personality more than teamwork.

    The very good comparison with the army, mentioned earlier, would I suspect tend not to work with independent groups as the army is run on a disciplinarian basis and requires huge logistical support.

    If I fail alone I fail due to my own weaknesses, lack of knowledge (or bad luck).
     
  8. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    always lone wolf for me, that's how I was brought up as an only child I spent more time on my own than with others and its my natural state, I don't really like other people(with 1 or 2 exceptions!! ;)) and I prefer animals to people.
    in the UK groups will be families and families only.
     
  9. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I am on the Group side with this issue. No Group is going to be perfect. There has to be strong leadership, ground rules, and a commitment to the Group's goals. Duties assigned, results expected, and consequences for poor performance. I think we all have a good idea of how the Group would have to function.

    IMHO the Lone Wolf is to much of a risk. Mechanical injury. Sickness. Infection. Security. You cannot stay awake 24/7, and you will have a very difficult time overcoming overwhelming numbers. How often do you need another pair of hands to help with a task? To lift or move something awkward or heavy? Another pair of eyes that verify, or catch something you didn't? Hear something that you didn't? Face multiple opponents be they man of beast?

    Whether there is actual truth, or maybe I just want to believe it, there is safety in numbers.
     
  10. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Finding the right group is always a bit of a challenge. A strong leader that isn't a tyrant is a must. Survival is all about risks risk assessment and making the right choices. A bad group can be a problem but the possible gains outweigh the possible dangers in most ways. A person alone is so damn vulnerable. They will live until their first injury or illness and that will be the ends for them. Any group of thugs that runs across you can take you out. Despite Rambo movies, one man against many ends with the one dead. Numbers really do count. You can't watch your own back. There will be nobody to keep watch while you sleep.

    I understand the trust issues that many have with other people especially those that you don't know well. I even understand the comfort and attraction of the lone Wolf lifestyle. I actually like to solo camp and have spent thousands of hours out alone in the woods at night. I am sort of a loner myself other than my immediate family and a very small select group of friends.

    I have had close friends fail me. I finally learned that no friendship is forever and when you see the dynamics of a relationship changing you need to let it go. I have been screwed several times by people that I had treated as family. In the normal world I can mostly do without many other people and truly HATE the crowded big cities. I don't even like crowded stores.

    My insistence on a group over the Lone wolf method is simple. The odds of survival both for me as an individual and for people in general is in the groups. the lone wolf has no children. The skills and knowledge of the lone wolf die with them. I am old now but I have a lot to offer to any group. still care about the survival of the species and even in my small way I can see it as a loss if I don't ever pass on any of the things that I have learned. I try to do that here for much the same reason. If I didn't care about anybody but me why try to offer my knowledge. I am one of the last of a dying type. I was raised from birth by a man that had lived in a world where you either provided for yourself or you didn't survive. He worked hard to teach me so many things that are rapidly beginning to be lost arts.

    Those of you here are hear for more than just your personal survival. You are here because you want to share the things that you have learned with people that want to learn. no matter how much you know there is always more to learn. i have learned more here than I have from any other single person or group in my life other then maybe my Dad. In the event of TEOTWAWKI I will want to try and offer as much of this as possible to the survivors so that they don't have to fall so far. I won't live long without modern medicine. For me survival is no longer a personal objective. I'm a dead man walking.
     
  11. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    I will grant and agree that is valid assuming, I repeat assuming the lonewolf has the remotest possibility of encountering one other human in the fire five or ten years post SHTF.

    Yes........it has been pointed out clearly to me many times that what has worked for me has very little possibility of working for others. However I continue to maintain that if you can get deep enough into wilderness, and have zero human encounters for several years, it could work.
     
  12. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    My biggest issue with groups is that (at least in the early stages) there is just to many fat and/or lazy and/or simply unable to perform the most basic physical assignment.

    These people still expect Food, Clothing, Shelter, (Cell Phone service)

    I go to town for supplies once a year........and while there I play a game, I ask myself if I would consider being in a group that included each person my eyes fall on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  13. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The fat won't stay fat for long and the lazy won't live for long. In a major disaster scenario charity in the sense of helping those that refuse to help themselves just doesn't last long.

    True wilderness is hard to find. To a lot of people any patch of woods that you measure in multiple acres is a wilderness. Even really large patches of woods like the various National Forests are not really big enough to be real wilderness. What would be a problem in a lot of places is that every fool in a big city that ever camped is going to head for the woods. They will be shooting at anything moving and building huge fires to try and keep the monsters at bay. That is going to lead to forest fires. I guess the Pacific North West on most of the Canadian middle would work. You could find some true dead areas in the various western desert regions and the Rocky Mountains but if you don't already life there you probably will have a hard time getting there.

    I know that there are big forested areas in most places but if you are near a large population center you are going to be far from alone in your desire to go into the "wilderness". I live in Texas and we have a lot of big forests and open undeveloped areas but even with that it is still hard even now to find a place that has no sign of people having been there. The few places that I know of personally that would fit this sort of description where you could hide and probably never see another person are extremely harsh environments.

    If you choose to try this and are in the US you will be best served going native in the Mountains, Deserts or Swamps provided that you truly KNOW how to live there. Most just plain woods are going to be too attractive to novices running from the cities. Even if you think you know how to hunt living in the woods on just what you can catch or kill is a lot harder than most understand that haven't tried it. It is going to get UGLY in a hurry.
     
  14. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    there are some people with no family or perhaps they put themselves ahead of their children and spouse and will simply consider themselves and no one else , but this would be I think in the vast minority . For most considering this , have watched a few too many apocalyptic movies . I just have more confidence in humanity than this . I just don't think there are many that would grab a bug out bag and run out the door with no regard to those left behind .I take my prepping very seriously and look at in a realistic manner not a fantasy manner . This thread title "The group and bigger is better theory " As for as a group that would be the case for most . More realistically the question should be how many in your group . I would even consider two people a group . I have probably made some folks mad again , so let it fly .
     
  15. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    OK.........so your in a group and you have nearly all of your family in the same group you are in......Woopie.

    The Group is governed by a board consisting of ten members, there is a spokes person for the ten member board, but the spokes person is NOT one of the ten board members.

    A decision is made that 27 people need to be killed if there is to be any hope of the others surviving, 4 of the 27 are your family members. You and the group is informed that there may be a reluctant additional culling with-in 30 days. There is simply not enough food and everyone will die in an estimated 4 months, if this culling is not done tomorrow. Everyone is advised how deeply sorry that this must happen tomorrow, those to be culled will not be fed tonight or in the morning, to save ammo those to be culled will be culled in a compassionate method. Those not culled tomorrow will be on half rations. It is hoped that additional culling will not be for 30 days, but this will, need to be reviewed in two weeks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  16. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Two weeks later it is decided that 18 more must be culled, and food rations will need to be reduced even further.
     
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  17. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Five weeks later 11 more have to be culled, you have been sick for 4 days, so you will be culled along with 10 others.
     
  18. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    A week later it is decided at everyone under age 12 needs to be culled, this is deeply regretted. Food rations will be further reduced.
     
  19. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Soon it is announced that despite efforts to get all females of child bearing age pregnant, to enhance the groups forward survival, sadly 8 females have not gotten pregnant, and to save as many of the group from certain starvation, these 8 females will be culled tomorrow. More culling's will be scheduled before Christmas.
     
  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Anyone that tried to force such draconian rules would catch a bullet in the back of their head and a new leader would take over. A group would have to have a certain cohesion that this sort of stupid crap wouldn't promote. It never has worked in small groups and never would.

    A leader that acted like a psychotic killer wouldn't last past the first week.
     
  21. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    What if the group was governed by the vote of a ten member board....???

    If the massive SHTF event lasted "only" 19 months and not 7 years, and there was near zero food to start, even after demanding that everyone bring their food to the central storage area.

    I think people likely have a flawed idea that the whole group or 90% plus will survive. My wild'ass guess is that in any random group more the 60% would only be food and water consumers, and would not be able to do anything useful for the group. Just look at the amount of people currently producing zero and still eating well, with a government that is just selling treasury bill, to the federal reserve, making ledger entry's for trillions per year to feed people.

    Maybe where all of you live the people look like athletes, and can do 16 hours a day hard manual labor.........that is not how it is in Anchorage, Alaska.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  22. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    A look into history shows that your outcome may depend upon who/what you are surrounded by. Extreme deprivation brings out the worst in most people and the best in others. There are many verifiable accounts of how some people are guided by a strong moral compass that overshadows extreme deprivation, starvation, torture, and threats of torture. Others, not so much.

    Choose your companions wisely.
     
  23. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    [QUOTE="GrizzlyetteAdams,
    Choose your companions wisely.[/QUOTE]

    AND that is why it will either be a family group or Lone Wolf for me. I have never been very good at choosing good companions.
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    as far as I am concerned, if you don't know the person don't trust them, and SHTF is the wrong time to start trusting strangers, strangers= danger!!
    i'd rather be alone than with a person or persons I don't trust.
    the security angle is a load of BS, you don't need people for security(people fall asleep) there are lots of ways you can handle security without involving people.
     
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  25. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I would always choose to join a group of like minded people rather than be a lone wolf.
    The idea of being a lone wolf may seem appealing because it seems safer short term but even LW has a wife (she has been described in the past as having a respectable skill set and knowledge). We may not all be the type of person that likes large groups of people (I know I don't) but we are rarely truely alone for long. We are social animals.
    It's my opinion that if you have no one at all to fall back on if you get ill or when things go wrong you are as good as dead.
    This question had been examined many times in other threads, I have explained my reasoning in those threads and other members have posted some excellent ideas and information, they're well worth a read.
     
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  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    we aren't all social animals, I know i'm not and I expect there are a few like me.
    all UK groups will be families and extended families ONLY, SHTF is NOT the time to start trusting complete strangers no matter what skills they SAY they have.
    and what a lot of people don't realise is that in a nationwide catastrophe they may be alone for some considerable time before they can find a group to join (depending on the mortality rate)and they will have to survive alone until that time. given a lot of comments on other forums I don't think everyone is capable of that and many will fail.
    #I'm with Groucho Marx who said "I wouldn't want to belong to any group that would accept me as a member!".
     
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  27. Travis.s

    Travis.s Expert Member
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    It boils down to trading off.
    Groups have strength in number but trust takes time to build.

    Solo on has to worry about there own needs and can keep mobile but has no help if they get sick or injured.

    Groups can have a larger pool of skills while solo only has what they know and there is a limit. Not saying you can't be a survival specialist but it's unlikely you can be a doctor, engineer, agriculturalis and mechanic all at once.

    Solo can avoid the political effects of a group there will be no discussion on what to do and how it should be done a solo will just act on what they need.

    It all depends on your preference of how you want and what your capable of to survive.
     
  28. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I was a lonewolfer until I got hung up in the Hurricane Katrina mess. In spite of best-laid plans, I was trapped among strangers (wild ride!).

    Long story short, here is some of what I learned from the experience:

    Unless people are living solo in a true wilderness situation in a mostly inhospitable climate or terrain, sometimes there’s safety in groups, which is critical in most locations. More than one person is needed to be on all sides of the property; one or two people cannot do this (and need to sleep sometime). More than one or two people are needed to rotate assignments so that everyone has a chance to rest.

    I noticed that in the aftermath of Katrina, a few homeowners that were alone (although they were well-armed) eventually suffered depredation by looters because they were outnumbered. These individuals were overwhelmed because they could not stay awake 24/7. (One lone guy at the end of the street I was on insisted on staying in his house “to protect his property.” Unfortunately he was killed by looters who outnumbered him.)

    On the other hand, neighbors who previously didn’t get along all that well pre-Katrina were suddenly bonded by a common goal: to keep looters out of their area. Assignments to stand guard, etc. were rotated so everyone could get much needed sleep.

    So, yeah. In some situations, groups are critical to survival. It was interesting to see how these groups formed on the spot, and were not pre-planned. All they needed was one common goal.

    You can better your odds of survival if you plan ahead, but sometimes you may be able to get lucky if you are among the right people at the right time.


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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    depends where you are I suppose, in a big city I can see a group would be best.
    in the countryside like here lone wolf is probably the only way to go as there will be less survivors in an already low population area, a simple basic life style is best. trying to live like one did after shtf the same way they did before the event isn't going to work.
     
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  30. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I forgot to mention that this part of my Katrina experience occurred, not in New Orleans, but in a small rural community about 12 miles away from Waveland, MS which was ground zero. Initially, I thought I was lucky to get out of New Orleans...but got trapped along the way and discovered a whole 'nother brand of hell...

    For many years that little rural community was well known for its hospitality and countrified charm... go figure!

    I will say this... the looting began just as soon as people realized that most communications were cut off...downed cell towers and phone lines meant that NO ONE could call the police for help (which would have done no good anyway, as the entire department was stretched so pitifully thin).

    Later, some of the fresh hell that came into the community were gangs that came in from out of town.

    I will write more about my experiences after I get blogging privileges here...but I am still too new here for that, lol.


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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    12 miles out isn't far, that's scavenging radius for the looters, especially at a time when they still have fuel, even without fuel its probably only a days walk, not that they will walk far.
     
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  32. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Every situation has a different viewpoint, they were (the thugs) 12 miles out of town OR 10 miles out of RANGE!!! The saying goes "Out of sight does not mean out of Range". Now you know why the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 300 Win Mag. ,for those out of sight times.
     
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  33. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Another surprising bit of info: Waveland, MS is a small rural-fied place, not a hotbed of thugs. At all. My grandfather had a beach house there where I spent a great deal of time during many summers. I know the place well, lol.

    It is a fact that thugs make every effort to reach disaster areas because that is when people are at their weakest. A good number of the more horrific crimes in the area that I was in were committed by out-of-town gangs.

    Myth blown: crime is not always based on the character of the local inhabitants.


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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  34. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Crime is based on the nature of people. Wolves will always head for the sheep pen, if they think they can get in. Natural or otherwise disasters will attract wolves, like carrion attracts buzzards.
     
  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    crime post SHTF will be based on the number of survivors and the availability of resources, both of which will probably be greater in the cities due to the number of both.
    getting further out will take some effort on the looters part and they will probably take the easiest option. urban gangs aren't inclined to venture into a rural area they know nothing about, they will stay close to home turf.
     
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  36. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    That is the whole problem for the gangs, They know their turf and who has what but once it has been looted and consumed, the are screwed. They do not know where the water is hidden. They do not know what they can eat, unless it come wrapped in a can or plastic containers. They will first turn on their neighbors and those close to them but in the end, it won't matter, they will not have the skill sets or knowledge needed to survive. Time is not going to be on their side, The survivors just need to stay out of sight until they have killed each other an died off. Maybe import some of IBME's bears to hurry the pace along.
     
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  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    looks like they are killing each other off now in London, they aren't waiting for SHTF!
     
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  38. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    This is not true in the USA.

    First-hand observers (like myself) of gang influence (and more than a few news accounts) are apparently not the same as what happens in the UK where you live.

    It is a verifiable fact that gangs in the USA will travel long distances to disaster areas to prey on vulnerable people.

    Many Katrina victims such as myself were eyewitnesses to this. After the roads were somewhat cleared of downed trees, power lines and poles, and other hurricane damage we saw SUV-loads of very rough individuals sporting gang tattoos cruising through neighborhoods--with out of state licence plates. The most prevalent ones in our immediate area were from Georgia (apparently Atlanta gangs). They traveled 423 miles, which is definitely far from their "home turf", lol.

    More than a few times they were repelled simply by a show of force; there were more of us than them. They were outnumbered gun-wise. Some were caught red-handed in the act of looting by local "Neighborhood Watchers."

    In my area, some of the good ol' local boys found an empty SUV with an out of state license plate. This vehicle was identified as belonging to the thugs that were seen earlier in the day. It was empty because the bastards were busy ransacking homes. Hahaha!!!!!! The locals rounded up a few tractors with front-end loaders and other attachments and overturned the SUV and pretty much destroyed it...

    (For fun, take a look at these images. Neighborhood Watch duty ain't for sissies, lol.)

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...0j0i10i24j0i5i30j0i8i30j0i24j0i30.G9zrUoSE5jw



    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    cant see it happening in the UK, gangs live on takeaways and ready meals and wouldn't know what to do with real food. also gang members over here seem to be very young and leaving the only area they know would probably scare the hell out of them, plus they know nothing about rural areas and would be another planet to them.
     
  40. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Hurricane Katrina Neighborhood Watch having a lighthearted moment:

    36d322146c1095e38c2c07f8da0724c0.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  41. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    You have no idea how lucky you are. Here, gangs are highly organized criminals collectively operating a multi-billion dollar business.
     
  42. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    its not just gangs, I do think that most sheeple have no comprehension of rural life and in some cases are scared of the countryside "all that animal poo-we might get a disease!" has been heard many times. of course if one lives on ready meals, takeaways or eat out then they aren't going to anyway, also most people (at least in the cities)seem to be anti gun and anti hunting. we even at the moment have a problem with militant vegans threatening butchers and farmers.
    most urban people have simply no idea of how SHTF life will be purely because its not on their radar.
     
  43. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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  44. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there seems to be a common thread on all those signs!! LOL!
     
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  45. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Anyone that didn't' see the aftermath hurricane Katrina would have a hard time getting their head wrapped around the horrific devastation . I went into south Mississippi to rescue family members a bit north of where you was in the Hattiesburg area . The closest fuel station open coming from the north to your location was at least 300 miles away . The highways were filled with stranded motorist that drove until their vehicles sputtered and stopped with empty fuel tanks . This was truly an apocalyptic scene . The hurricane was bad enough but then was compounded by peoples panic and unpreparedness . My brother a retired metoralagist was called in by the mayor and other city officals to brief them on what to expect before the storm made landfall . The mayor scoffed and told my brother it can't be that bad . The people were left unaware of what was coming upon them . The mind set of the people in that area for a disaster is awful . One reason I no longer live in that area .Looks like any reasonable minded person that saw what you did that wasn't a prepper would become one .
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  46. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's exactly the sort of thing I mention to family members but I always get the same answer" it'll never happen here"!!!! so I give up trying, I wont be repeating my warning, back to lone wolf(+1) for me, let them stew in their own juice when it happens, thankfully none of them live anywhere near me and without fuel their going nowhere( most people in the UK drive until the fuel warning light comes on).
     
  47. IBME

    IBME "ALASKAN"
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    Not many know who "really" runs the crime in America. It is not the gangs. If you can find the information, and the history of how and why it rapidly evolved, it is not only terrifying, it is, at first hard to grasp and accept. When you fully digest this information, everything will change. You will see a light so bright. Then you will weep. Like you have never wept before.
     
    The Innkeeper and TMT Tactical like this.
  48. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    There are many types of disasters. Local (small city area), national (state or multi state), fast (sudden -earthquake), slow, hurricane and they each have their own traits. The sudden local, provides limited gang potential, as the authorities will respond as fast or faster than the gangs. Slow city and the gangs will start forming up and have the resources to make it to th disaster zones. National (slow or sudden) will limit gangs to their turf area (no fuel) but will also prevent much local protection being provided by the authorities (you be on your own). In the USA, gangs are highly mobile and will travel long distances but only as long as they have access to fuel. In the UK, the gangs are mostly located in the big cities, close to city transit lines. So in the USA, the gangs are fully equipped with plenty of vehicles, in the UK few will have vehicles. So the local disasters in the USA will draw gangs, not so much in the UK. Any National disaster, will most likely confine the gangs to their local turf or to close by areas. No fuel and none of the gangs are hoofing it out. The local gangs will be killed off but will also be replaced by the crazies and the desperate. Large groups (gangs) cannot survive by looting and scavenging, the logistics are against that happening. The major danger is going to be from the lunatics, off their meds. and the desperate folks that did not prepare.
     
    The Innkeeper and lonewolf like this.
  49. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The problems that came with Katrina were extreme and actually not typical. Harvey actually HIT Houston and flooded as many or more homes than Katrina did. The result as far as the destruction of the homes was every bit as bad. what didn't happen was the total break down of the people. Looting was nothing like what you experienced. As soon as the storm passed people from all over the place showed up and helped with the Evacuation. By the time the feds got there to help there wasn't much left for them to do.

    The first responders after Katrina were shot at and had to pull back out until the National Guard could get there and put that stuff down. Right after Katrina Texas was smashed by Rita. We were without power all over East Texas some were without power for almost 2 months. Do you know what the worst part of that monster hurricane was in Texas? The freaking refugees that had been moved to East Texas started the same crap here that they had in New Orleans. Anyplace that took them in was destroyed. If they couldn't steal it they tore it up. I had friends that left Houston because the New Orleans refugee kids that were put in the public schools here were robbing the other students at knife point.

    Hurricane Ike was a massive storm that tore up my home town to the point that they shut down all power, water and sewer in a city of 100,000 and told everyone to leave. They didn't collapse into total anarchy. There were reports of some looting but the death count was tiny.

    The thing that people don't understand about the Katrina catastrophe is that the storm actually missed and went in East of Louisiana. The disaster was mostly human caused rather than storm caused. If New Orleans had actually been hit by the storm and come in just to the west of town there wouldn't have been much left to rebuild.

    The problem is that New Orleans is built in a hole. There are many places that were flooded that should NOT have been rebuilt. Living 12 feet below sea level on the coast BETWEEN the Gulf of Mexico to the south and a huge inland sea to the north (Lake Pontchartrain) Is INSANE!

    The land is still sinking, the levies are insufficient and old, there is little to no infrastructure to get the people out when a storm comes and The US Government put those people right back in that same hole. The entire thing is a nightmare that nobody seems to want to address. In 2017 the murder rate in New Orleans was higher than Chicago's. It doesn't need a storm to be a problem but when things break down it is deadly.

    I honestly don't understand why it is the way it is. I love the people in South Louisiana and used to go over there all the time when I was young. Cajuns are great people. New Orleans has a problem that isn't limited to the people there. The city government and the cops pretty much did the opposite of what they needed to do and sort of abandoned the sinking ship. When the FEDs showed up they just made a bad situation worse which is pretty typical.
     
  50. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Yes, poor Texas (and other places) were the unlucky recipients of the worst criminals that the bowels of New Orleans had to offer in the way of refugees. Most of them had no way to leave the city before the hurricane hit them, and that included the project-dwellers (who lived where even police feared to tread on a good day).

    A study of Hurricane Katrina offers a good look into future SHTF situations because it impacted such a widespread area, from central Florida, through Alabama, Mississippi (ground zero), Louisiana, and into eastern Texas. Wikipedia states that Federal disaster declarations covered 90,000 square miles (230,000 km2) of the United States, an area almost as large as the United Kingdom.

    It's not all about New Orleans. Or out-of-state thugs.

    Because of its severity and widespread destruction over 90,000 square miles the world got a good look at the ugly side of human nature, along with the good side. (There were also many accounts of people banding together and helping one another, which was nice.)

    The devastation was not concentrated in one spot like most hurricanes are known to inflict. It was everywhere...a logistical nightmare. When it became apparent that people were on their own because the devastation was so widespread help could not reach them for a seemingly long time...that's when the crazy started. To give you an idea of how senseless it got: in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, police reported that a man killed his sister in a fight over a bag of ice...

    People were losing their minds. They lost everything else, so the last thing to go was their minds...

    There is another lesson in this event for all of us:

    In my observations (and conversations with others) about the Katrina experience, I learned that extreme stress can sometimes break the integrity of the people we have trusted the most, even close family and friends. News reports of stupid stuff like family members killing one another over a bag of ice, or attacking a close friend for a gallon of water...shocking! I thought there must have been a serious human disconnect, to begin with, or those things would not have happened. Nope, not always. I talked with some who related to me that they NEVER expected that so-and-so would ever turn on their family. "But he was a kind and gentle man who would never do something like that!" Or, "She was such a loving mother...who knew?"

    This disturbing undercurrent was found in four states (and to some extent, Texas) during the aftermath of Katrina, not just a localized area where help can be quickly mobilized.

    All this chaos and anguish because of a hurricane? Imagine what a widespread or prolonged event will do to the best of us? Sometimes there is NO predicting when another person's mind will snap, or what will be their final tipping point...it sometimes happens without "justifiable" reason.

    Sadly, we never know what extreme distress will draw out in people, even if they acted "OK" in past stressful times. So yeah, keep your preps under wraps. Keep a hidden reserve that only you know about. Even if you trust your family 100%, something like an accidental slip of the lips to the wrong person can spell trouble.

    If you decide not to go "lonewolf," and even if you are sure you selected your disaster mates with utmost diligence, you MUST prepare for the very real possibility that things may go awry in unexpected ways.

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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