Long Distance Recovery?

Discussion in 'Other Not Listed Situations' started by Dalewick, Nov 8, 2019.

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  1. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Come January I will be leaving CONUS (Continental United States) with my wife for Hawaii. It's the first trip out of CONUS that I will have made without my entire family. I know my girls could take care of themselves and with there knowledge and skills would probably be leaders after a TEOTWAWKI event. My concern is (especially at my age and health) how to get back to the CONUS across 3000 miles of ocean.

    When I go over all scenarios I keep coming back to the EMP scenario as the worst possible scenario as far as getting back to CONUS. I keep coming back to having to acquire a mid size sailing craft and sailing back to the U.S. I have "0" experience with this size water craft, but I do know how to navigate long distances. I don't know a minimum number of people needed to sail such a craft or what experience level would be needed from others to not make this a suicide mission. I know the trip, with experienced crew should take 20 days, so I figure on having provisions for at least 40 days.

    If I would decide the first option was not realistic, my backup plan would be to get to Pearl Harbor and find a cargo vessel that was still operational and heading to CONUS. I would be extremely cautious about trusting someone else for passage that far across the ocean. So many things that could go wrong that there is no way to prep for them all. I'm not sure how well bartering for passage would work, but I'm equally not sure of other possibilities for returning stateside.

    All ideas will be appreciated!

    Dale
     
  2. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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  3. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Dale,

    First, regardless of need, both Madam and you - should - get US passports. Medium-sized rural post offices probably have the set-up, the camera and applications for speedy processing. Believe cost for routine 2 week service is ~ $125. The passport is the best photo ID today. The new driver's licenses have the air travel feature but the passport is still best.

    ......

    In pragmatic terms ... if I may ... an EMP scenario places the US Government on one of the DEFCON levels. Much travel will be restricted. I cannot envision small craft transiting Hawaii to US Pacific ports unless under an exception. I am nearly positive that no US flagged or foreign flagged vessels on the Hawaii-US Pacific coast trade route will accept any private-citizen passengers.

    Of course there are always some slivers of exceptions. Thus, both of you get passports and carry another premier ID eg WV driver's licenses.

    ......

    - - - If - - - the trip was one year later, I'd work to get you bona fide established as a VOAD emergency responder and, it'd be sleeping at the airport until a space-avail, then flight back for responder assignment. Certain categories of responders are like the "old times" of military reservists.

    ......

    In ocean passage, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong. No bartering for transit. All the big revenue trade routes are monitored and have a government presence. "Force majeur" will surely be declared by the maritime companies if a confrontation of national importance such as an EMP.
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Hawaii would one of the worst places on the planet to be trapped after an E.M.P. attack . Isolated , limited agriculture , people stacked wall to wall without a clue of how to survive without food imported and electricity . The only reasonable food source that I can think of would be fish . There would be so many dead tourist on the beach , trying to retrieve fish to eat from amongst the rotting floating corpses would just be gross . It would be one horrific smelling place in a month or two . On the positive side though , after the die off it might actually return to the paradise it once was . If returning to the mainland is on the radar in such an event , looking up ocean currents might be a huge help . The old sailing ships took advantage of the currents . Of course having a current chart would have to be obtained before leaving home . Knowing the seasonal prevailing winds " trade winds " another crucial part of the needed information .
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  5. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I once saw on the history channel " back when the channel actually put on history films " . Where there were a few guys on the American continent that were in a bind . The Native Americans were conducting attacks and killing them . Five or six of the last survivors built a sail , put it on a row boat and sailed back to their native country . If I recall right France . These were well experience sailors . I found this to be almost unbelievable but was presented as being the truth .
     
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  6. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    I have sailed solo across the Atlantic and back in a 33' sailboat. 45' or smaller should be fine with one or two people. If if is set up properly you might handle a larger one single handed but the sail size becomes a problem eventually. Things like a roller furling jib makes life much easier.
     
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  7. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    I have the maps and have sailed inter Island in kayaks when young. Interisland is a long ways from crossing the pacific though. While in the islands I would keep us on the big island or Kauai until I could collect enough food and make it back to Oahu. Living there years ago would be some help. I would never fish from a beach in Hawaii. Either always from a boat or go inland to the limited rivers and lakes for the abundant freshwater fish. There are also plentiful pigs and goats on most islands and I still remember how to hunt in the jungle (and trap) well. For me, food and water won't be the big issue. It would be security (Hawaii gun laws) and transport home, with transport being my primary concern. If an EMP wasn't total and there is still some commercial and military travel possible, then I'm not worried about getting home. If it's total,and ALL electronics are toast, then getting home becomes an issue as I fear most modern transports are burnt.

    Dale
     
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  8. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I lived there for a number of years. I would be willing to accompany you as a guide and safety monitor. ( All expenses paid by you of course.)
    Seriously though. There is a lot and I mean a lot of military bases there. They pretty much are everywhere there not just Pearl. In an emergency buddy up with any US military personnel would be my number one priority.

    The odds of the dreaded EMP happening while you are on vacation there is minimal but I know how you feel. If it was me I would know with my luck that is when I would think it would happen.

    I would like to give you a few pointers to help you keep your vacation there safe and enjoyable.

    A. If a local says something unintelligible do NOT reply to them with "What?" In Hawaii saying "What" can be considered smart alek talk and can insight a fight or the dreaded Hawaiian sucker punch known as " False Crack" ( false crack=medivac)

    2. Stay out of beach parks at night. Locals sometimes party there at night and simply being there can attract those who like to "False Crack".

    C. Do not smart talk the police there in any way. They will cave in your head and then arrest you and put your picture on the news with two black eyes and say your injuries were sustained while resisting arrest. Come on vacation ....leave on probation.

    4. Oahu beaches: unless you are a really good swimmer or know how to surf or the waves are totally flat do not go into the water at Sandy Beach. It is a shore break beach that the locals body surf at and the waves there are really strong and will smash your ass hard. I used to body surf there and have watched many a tourist crawl out of the surf there bloody and shaken after "going over the falls". ( That is when a wave grabs you and takes you over the top and then smashes you into the sand at the bottom.) The lifeguards at Sandy Beach are real lifeguards who earn every penny they make. They are not the panzies you saw on Baywatch. These guys are usually real big Hawaiian guys and save lives almost daily there.

    Most other beaches are pretty safe but be aware that the waves there are pretty strong. They roll unobstructed across thousands of miles then hit a damned beach that comes up out of nowhere. LOL.

    I'm sure there is more to warn you about but that is enough for now.

    Now for the DO THIS IF YOU CAN list:

    If the waves happen to be big on the North Shore like Wiamea or Ehukai (banzai Pipeline) beaches go there just to see it! It is amazing and this time of year it is a possibility that there could be a large swell.

    Diamond Head. if you can get inside through one of the tunnels on the back side there are old "Guns of Navarone" type gun emplacements in the front -top of Diamond Head. You can access them from inside by going into a tunnel and climbing a circular staircase to the top. Most people don't know about this.

    Hanauma Bay. (Underwater park.) Gorgeous beach inside half of a crater. Parts of Blue Hawaii with Elvis was filmed there.) Awesome place to snorkle. ( If you are a decent swimmer or have diving experience walk out to the small point on the right side of the cove and go into the water there. There is small canyons full of beautiful fish there. I used to snorkle with my buddies there all the time. If you snorkle off the beach you won't see much but other tourists.

    Wiamea Falls is great and you can see Wiamea beach at the same time. We used to take the tram back to the falls and spend all day at the falls swimming and jumping off the cliffs.

    Paradise Park is nice too. That would be in Manoa Valley. In the back of the valley there is a large waterfall and the trailhead to it starts at the parking lot of Paradise Park. Near there is Punchbowl National Military Cemetery. (My father is buried there) There is a winding road up into the mountains there called "Roundtop Drive" which will take you winding way up above Honolulu with some gorgeous views of Honolulu, Waikiki and the ocean and there is a park near the top called Tantalus lookout park.

    Blowhole ( Next to Sandy Beach) is nice to see. The water comes in underground and sprays up into the air.

    Makapuu beach is beautiful. It is past blowhole and Sandy beach and right across the highway from Sealife park.

    Pearl Harbor is awesome to see and of course the Arizona Memorial. Also there is a WWII sub called the Bowfin that you can tour while there in that area.

    Outer Islands:
    Maui is gorgeous. Lahaina is an awesome town. Old Whaling town.
    Kaui is gorgeous too. So many beaches and it seems that each one has it's own waterfalls. The Garden Isle.
    Island of Hawaii has the volcanoes and if they are erupting they are awesome to see. Usually though you cant get a flight there because they are all booked up during an eruption.

    It is a great place have an enjoyable trip! I am envious!

    one more thing
    LUA is the toilet LUAU is where you eat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  9. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Caribou, you be the man I've been looking for. Since you have done this I would love to know what you think of my plan.

    I would get to one of the non commercial harbors and acquire a boat in the 30 foot range. I will try to find a knowledgeable seaman that is a stranded tourist also (alone or with wife/family) and cooperatively make the sail to California. I remember the Pacific being a lot rougher in the winter than in the summer, so I'm thinking I would have to stay on Island until about April before setting sail home. Would there be any problem with storing enough food and water on a vessel that size for 4 adults? Would there be anything else that I might not be thinking of that we would need for that voyage?

    Thanks!

    Dale
     
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    1. varuna
      IMO 30 footer is rather tight for 4 adult on ocean passage. I'm aware other peoples has done it, but I personally prefer 40 footer trawler for doing any ocean passage.
       
      varuna, Nov 9, 2019
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  10. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Knowing my luck I would get Capt, Ron.


     
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  11. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Thanks Bro. Like you I have also lived there. Or actually stationed at Schofield Barracks for 3 years (83 to 86) as an 11B. Tried to get the wife (fiancé at the time), to come to Hawaii but she wouldn't leave the states back then. I'm looking forward to seeing the islands again. Going to stay a month, mostly on the big island. I loved the north shore, especially Wiamea bay and Banzai beach. Used to sit up on the mountains in the Kahuku's and watch the beaches while training. Watching the whales migrate by wasn't bad either. This will be the honeymoon we never had, just 33 years late. LOL!

    Dale
     
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  12. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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  13. Caribou

    Caribou Expert Member
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    30' is fine for one or two people. I've seen a couple with as small as a 24'er. You're talking about being on a small boat with a stranger for a month or six weeks, that's asking for problems. A friend of mine sailed to Hawaii with a bunch of strangers and they sued him when they got there. It was a much larger boat. Your plan is doable but there are risks, like what is to stop him from hitting you in the head at the start of the voyage, partaking of the wife for a month, and hitting her in the head near the end of the trip.

    I'd try your plan without hesitation. Perhaps developing your sailing skills before heading home might be better. Sail inter island a few times before heading east. As long as you keep going east you will find land. Bring lots of water. I left port with 40 gallons of fresh water just for me, plus I had a desalinator. I also had six months of food aboard, not to mention plenty of TP. If you can cross an ocean and have everything you NEED you are a prepper.
     
    1. Dalewick
      Thank you!
       
      Dalewick, Nov 8, 2019
  14. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    2 experienced people can operate a 48 footer. My best friend and his new wife did an around the world cruise in a 48 footer. When they started, she had no experience in sailing, but Darth had plenty. They did some short cruises in the Caribbean so she could get experience then set out.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      Thank You!
       
      Dalewick, Nov 9, 2019
  15. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon all,

    At the risk of having to answer many posts tomorrow, may I ask ...........

    Has the subject of this thread started by Dale changed ?

    I thought it was about evacuation during / after EMP.

    If so, sailing is akin to preparing to drive on the "other" side of the road in Australia, Indonesia, Honk Kong. All aforesaid are not relevant.

    An EMP triggers a national emergency and strict measures get activated.

    To add to the list of additional terms to know about and comply with:
    - Notice To Mariners
    - NOTAM : Notice to Aviators

    Repeat: "and comply with".

    Nearly forgot another term if not changed by the bureaucrats: CCA: Confined by Civil Authorities. Depending on the specifics of the type and sponsor of the national emergency, it could also be military authorities.

    ......

    and pack your immunization records along with passport. Otherwise, like the state DOT signs on the major roads: "Expect Delays".
     
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  16. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "Come January I will be leaving CONUS (Continental United States) with my wife for Hawaii. It's the first trip out of CONUS that I will have made without my entire family. I know my girls could take care of themselves and with there knowledge and skills would probably be leaders after a TEOTWAWKI event. My concern is (especially at my age and health) how to get back to the CONUS across 3000 miles of ocean."

    Best way to get back to the 48 is to threaten your daughters that should they pray Kilauea to blow-up while you are there, you'll raise up out'a Hades, grab them, and descend back down into the inferno with them.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      ROFLOL!! OG, I got to Hawaii early in 1983 and Kilauea had just started erupting for the first time in 18 years. She hasn't stopped erupting this entire time but is finally slowing down. I would be afraid to say anything about what she will do when I get there this time. It was incredible to watch the lava blowing so high back then. Looking forward to going back.
       
      Dalewick, Nov 9, 2019
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Always take a dog for security ... and if things go bad, you can always go Vietnamese on the dog.

    9bd14c81e5318e40ab15bba88741670c.jpeg
     
    1. Dalewick
      There's worse meals than dog. LOL!
       
      Dalewick, Nov 9, 2019
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  18. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    My original thread has to do with a TEOTWAWKI while I'm in the Hawaiian Islands. With a major concern being a EMP caused TEOTWAWKI which would/could cripple our government to the point of the rule of law is absent and commercial air traffic not possible. I'm eligible for MAC flights, but in such a scenario a MAC flight could be months if not years before I could get us both on one. If the government has "collapsed" then all norms are out the window. I don't expect it to ever happen, but I always plan for the worst possible scenario. I didn't expect to get shot, but I did. Which is why I now, always plan for the worst.

    Dale
     
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  19. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    In the current political climate, I would not go to Hawaii unless I had an ocean capable boat that I knew how to sail myself. I would not want to get caught in a dhimmi stronghold if any kind of event happened; especially a coup.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      LOL! I survived being in a country during a coup once. I did have an M16 and Colt 1911 for that one. What could go wrong? LOL! Oh well, I should have died while serving over there anyway. I can't live forever, can I.
       
      Dalewick, Nov 9, 2019
  20. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    If you head due east you may find land but most likely not America. Hawaii is the southernmost state in the US.Better practice some serious nav skills too.
     
  21. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Madame Pele ( Fire Goddess in Kilauea)
    5b2c2bc5a1773416f33ee74d32852095.jpeg
     
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  22. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    The Nav skills I have. I figure if I can travel 200 miles through triple canopy jungle, with nothing but a tritium compass and map and only miss my target by 43 yards, ocean nav should be easy again. Especially with navigation charts and a sextant. It always bothered me some when sea kayaking, to loose sight of land for a day or two, but a kayak isn't much of a vessel out on the open ocean.

    Dale
     
  23. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Dale, if you can get 40 footer then I seriously recommend having additional people who knew one or few thing about seamanship. I'm not saying that 2 person can't do it, however when it come to ocean passage there is safety in number.

    Also if this is your fist attempt of ocean passage, you might wanna going westward to Hawaii to gain more experience and find out yourself what work and what doesn't for your boat.
     
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  24. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    That's part of the problem. I don't currently have a boat (besides kayaks) and wouldn't be able to get it from where I live (close to the east coast of the USA) to the Pacific, even if I did. Hopefully this plan will never be needed but I never travel anywhere without a plan to get home if the world turns to shit while I'm traveling.

    What vessels in the 30 to 50 foot range I have spent any time on, I was usually busy pulling security and watching for ambush's from the river banks. PBR's were fun to ride but kind of like helicopters and tanks, they are bullet magnets. We only used them when we had too. Besides, jumping into 4 feet of mud was never my idea of a good way to start a long patrol.

    Dale
     
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  25. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Ref: EMP / All Hades breaks out;

    Good morning Dale,

    The worst realistic scenario will still have in place "continuity of government".

    A national emergency can allow for the activation of a US military of ~ 3 million over a few months time to build up. No need to ask for volunteers to unload sandbags from trucks. Besides the military there are the Federal and State employees that have emergency assignments. Then there are the organized responders. The great fortunes of America will not get stolen away without a cataclysmic fight.

    If private citizen preppers can prep, ...... all around here the military and LEOs are preparing. So, too, the responders. Even industry has employee preppers. Dominion Energy, Appalachian, Duke, .... they are preparing.

    Of course, most Americans are not and their bodies will be donated to science.

    Commercial aviation will use its emergency plans. CRAF - Civil Reserve Air Fleet - will be activated and give aircraft to the military for exclusive use. Hawaii also has the feature of being a stop-over. Some corporate aircraft get national priority even over military aircraft.

    For over a decade I worked the emergency management of the US inland waterways and canals. One of my canals was the Panama Canal and I therefore had the largest travel budget. Our system has been used and it worked. Today, it's not the system but the domestic political confrontations.

    Don't neglect the terrorist threat. Everyone will be screened to do anything.
     
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  26. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    From what I have heard from people who sailed a lot in Hawaii, lots of retirees buy sailboats then try to sail to Hawaii from California with the idea that they can live on it and sail the thousands of islands in the Hawaiian chain the rest of their lives. Evidently, the trek to Hawaii is a grueling one with mostly tack against currents and winds and once they make it to Hawaii all they want to do is off the boat . LOL I guess there is a possibility of getting a deal on a boat there at times. if it is a tack to get there it should be an easier sail back.
     
  27. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    There are some forum post that people have asked pertinent questions on. You may want to go looking at those.

    Here is an example:

    http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f15/is-this-possible-hawaii-to-california-176766.html


    Is it foolish for me to want to sail from Oahu to Newport California in 2 1/2 years? I have no experience sailing whatsoever; I am going to look at a boat next weekend to buy and liveaboard and I will hire someone to teach me how to sail, then I will practice over the next few years by sailing to other islands and around oahu.

    I am in the Navy and plan to learn all about navigation through people I know on the boat. I've read that the best time to go is like late July or early September. I get out of the Navy November of 2018, or late September 2018 if I take terminal leave. So my option would be to take terminal and leave right away or get out in November, stay in hawaii and leave in July; which i am leaning towards this option because then I will have a lot more time learning to sail. Any advice on this?

    one answer to his post:

    The passage from Hawaii to California can be a tough one, and later in the year (September onward) it can be harder yet. It typically starts with a long, hard windward leg northward, beating against the trades. Once somewhere around 40 north or so you should encounter the NWlies, and then life gets better as you broad reach towards SF or thereabouts. Later in the year depressions from up north start impacting this route, and can make life difficult. The worst ocean passage in our logs was from Kauai to SF, around the first week in October. Five depressions in a row passed over us, and we had 16 days of gale force or above out of a 24 day passage. This was before we had access to decent wx info, and in the same situation today we could have adjusted our course to ease the conditions... as you could, if you knew enough to do so. I didn't!

    So, if you really want to make the voyage, start in the right season... of course, keeping your eyes peeled for hurricanes, for that is hurricane time too! But lots of folks make that passage every year, and some of them enjoy the experience!

    Jim
     
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  28. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    First of all it is my dream to live on a 40 footer trawl boat unfortunately I couldn't afford it :(

    Anyway since your experience is limited to riverine boat than I suggest you get a used non-sailing boat and start from there. Furthermore you need to familiarize yourself with all aspect of it operation before you making any attempt of ocean passage, just drive around within the continental shelf will get you the experience and know-how of what work and what doesn't for your boat and your crew (that include your wife).

    Just remember, seamanship is more than just about knowledge and skills, it also about discipline, and mindset
     
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  29. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    1. Dalewick
      Sounding like the best plan yet! Thanks!
       
      Dalewick, Nov 10, 2019
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  30. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I am thinking you are a military retiree since you still qualify for MAC flights. Doesn't MWR still rent sailboats to retirees? I know they used to.
     
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    1. Dalewick
      As far as I know, yes! and yes to retired. 100% due to gun shot wounds and complications.
       
      Dalewick, Nov 10, 2019
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  31. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    So, rent a small boat and find an instructor. A retired Boatswain's mate from the Coast Guard would be a great choice. Coasties actually learn how to sail, or they did back in the day. You and your wife could learn on larger and larger boats until you get to 40 footers.
     
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  32. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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