Looting Post Hurricane Florence

Discussion in 'Urban Survival' started by Old Geezer, Sep 22, 2018.

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  1. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    I have been reading and the looting after hurricane Florence has not been particularly bad. I'm thinking that this is due to the hurricane's having hit mainly small cities and rural areas. Hurricanes hitting urban areas can cause mayhem as we are all too aware. Rural areas are already rebuilding.

    Please share information with the rest of us!

    https://blackchristiannews.com/2018/09/police-in-north-carolina-arrest-5-people-for-looting/

    http://hiddenhandnews.com/index.php...t-looters-as-florence-ravages-north-carolina/

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/looters-arrested-as-florence-wreaks-havoc-in-north-carolina

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/looters

    42cae384728371a3552c0f65abce8b24.png
     
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    While the looting may not have been as rampant, it should not happen at all. Looters should be shot on sight and if still moving shot again. During a WROL event, that is what is going to happen around me.
     
  3. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There was almost no looting during or after Harvey hit Houston. I think that the fact that it is legal to shoot and kill people that are stealing your property OR property from your neighbors house might have had something to do with that.
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    we don't have hurricanes in the UK and the only looting I can go on is the ones in the London Riots of a few years ago, this was mostly shops and things like mobile phones and widescreen TV's, it wasn't food or water or clothing or stuff to live on , it was blatant thuggery and commercialism.
     
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  5. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    WROL = Without rule of Law
    So how do you define "Looting" if there are no rules or laws ?
    Are you setting yourself up as Judge, Jury and Executioner? and on whos Authority ?

    As there are no laws to uphold are you not just a murderer then?
    Murderers are worse than looters so after shooting the looters you as a murderer should shoot yourself right??
     
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  6. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    looting is taking what dosent belong to you, as simple as that.
    I like the sign I have seen many times "looters will be shot, survivors will be shot again!"
     
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  7. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Looting is stealing things that don't belong to you from someone else's property during a TEMPORARY disaster or breakdown of the rule of law. This is not to be confused with scavenging in a post apocalyptic period. The difference is simple. Depending on where you live looting, taking things that you WANT, can get you killed or put in prison where as scavenging may be the only way you have of getting what you NEED.
     
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  8. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    It is not simple at all!
    One mans scavenging maybe another mans looting
    Remember there is NO rule of law
    WROL how is ownership defined?

    Most concepts of ownership depends on someones laws! enforceable laws!
    In fact the word own/owner/ownership depends on ROL !

    Possess/possession will be a better word to use in a world WROL
     
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  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Here is the simple determination between looting and scavenging. Looting is when I own it and have not abandoned it. Scavenging is when I own it but have abandoned it. A temporary abandonment (Storm, fire, etc. ) does not make the material free for the taking. Long term abandonment (WROL - event) nobody present and evidence (undisturbed dust, no footprints on floor, etc.) of abandonment, is scavenging. I enter a house and see footprints on the floor, that is evidence somebody is using the property and so it is not abandoned. Simple method to live by or die, if you are a looter.

    As for my being judge, jury and executor, you don't have to worry about it, if you don't set foot on my property. If you do trespass, then I hope you have already dug your burial spot, because I will just leave you out for the critters to eat. I won't bother to dig the hole. Now the term owner, possession does not depend on ROL, it depends on it being on my property and my determination to retain control of it. When the official (government enforced) ROL ends, then my ROL (force of my arms) begins. I will drop looters in their tracks, without a second thought. Now if you can't determine what is abandoned and what is still being used by an individual or group, then I suggest you stay on your own property and not go scavenging. Careful observation of a dwelling to determine it is no longer occupied and has not had any recent visitors will help decide if you should investigate further. This is not rocket science, it is common sense for those that have any common sense. Those without, will join with the snowflakes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
  10. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Olde guy,

    I think you may be stuck in a self imposed time warp of confusion in thinking here......and do not recognize what you are attempting to define.


    You stated...



    If there are no laws to uphold..there are no murderers. Understand now ???? Right???
    You are using a form of double speak here and thinking no one will catch on to it. Sort of like a politician...or college professor today.

    Don't get me wrong here...I am not in favor or WROL...but WROL can be a two edged sword....particularly for what I call two legged wildlife. And I believe TMT Tactical is well aware of this.

    You'd better believe that in SHTF or TEOTWAWKI....two legged wildlife will fear an armed populace more than any lawman. There are places even lawmen are reluctant and cautious about going out in the far country..in this state. And I am not talking about the inner cities here.


    I remember going to court for a case of three fellows who robbed me at gunpoint in front of my home when riding my scooter from work one night.

    The defense appointed lawyer wanted to know how I was familiar with the term "Center Mass " when I described how the gun was pointed at me by one of these fellows.

    I replied that I was familiar with these terms and more as a result of my military experience and also being a member in good standing of a local well known gun club. The questioning immediately stopped.
    But more importantly ..I realized that many lawyers believe most people haven't a clue outside of what they learn in movies and television.
    Belonging to this gun club and speaking with the Olde Timers taught me a lot ..in particularly about rolling my own ammunition...not just about shooting.


    By the way Olde Guy...do you know the name of the author of confusion...by name????


    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If I am hungry and find you house empty and abandoned with your bones laying in the yard I WILL take the food I find in your house and eat it rather than let it rot. If you wish to see that as stealing then I can live with that.
     
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  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    better to have what you need BEFORE SHTF, scavenging/looting after an event could get you shot!
     
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  13. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I agree, you start out with what you need but all good things come to an end, including, supplies, building materials, etc. You better not start out planing to get your supplies by scavenging. If that is your survival plan, you won't be with us long, once the SHTF. Mr.Murphy just loves tossing little challenges in life. I am absolutely sure that no matter how well we plan and prepare, he will have a surprise for us. His little surprise might require us leaving our nice secure, warm and cozy compound and go hunting for a $2.00 part that just shut down a critical system.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    if you haven't got it, cant fix it or make a new one, then learn to live without it.
    if your survival plan is to scavenge everything after SHTF then your not a prepper.
     
  15. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    This too is doublespeak lonewolf. I know people who scavenge today ...right now. They canvas the neighborhoods for stuff people discard into piles.

    I have myself been known to stop my truck to save an olde lawnmower from a scrap pile in front of someone's house awaiting the trash pickup people...and I can buy a new lawnmower any time I want but try to keep mine going as long as possible.

    I bring them home to my garage and scrap spare usable parts for my lawnmowers...wheels...flywheels ..cables..gas tanks...etc etc.

    I have been known to gather certain pieces of scrap metal...and right now have three large sheets of tin folded up in my garage. Occasionally I cut off a piece and make use of this metal.

    People are going to scavenge many things post SHTF or TEOTWAWKI..for their own use or barter.

    Yes prepping is important and knowing how to scavenge and or barter is also important. And so too is knowing how to do without...and not panic over it.

    This is not just prepping lonewolf...but survival itself. And many specialties have come about to facilitate survival. History is replete with this example.

    Now I'll readily grant you .....fixing or knowing how to fabricate a new part is indeed important and even at times becoming a specialty skill....but often the correct materials are something which must be located...traded or bartered for...ie...or scavenged.


    I have an item for which I knew way back then to scavenge and I keep it in a specialty tool box out in my garage. It is a wide and thick olde piece of Hacksaw blade....made into a scraper. Very hard metal. Many people, when they could find them, made these olde hacksaw blades into fixed blade knives. Very hard metal and would hold an edge nicely.



    SPECIALTY.......In history and before petroleum fed transportation known today....many cities and or trading centers of commerce were built up and located along river routes. These cities are still there today. For river methods were the most efficient way to carry/ship large amounts of cargo and goods. This was survival of the day. And yes..there were scavengers among them too.

    My non Ishmaelte .02,

    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    scavenging today is one thing, I do it myself, but scavenging POST SHTF will be something completely different. how do you know its been abandoned? is someone watching you from cover? will you get shot if you try to take it? if your not sure move onto the next place.
    i'm just saying I have heard people say their whole plan is to scavenge what they need after SHTF(no stockpile pre SHTF) that's not prepping that's being a looter.
     
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  17. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I have stockpiles but will not pass up the opportunity to scavange if it is safe to do so.
     
  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yes, but there's the rub. is it safe? and how will you know its safe?
    any miscalculation could be fatal.
    especially in an urban setting where there are more walls for people to hide behind.
     
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  19. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there is also the type of SHTF to consider.
    a FAST SHTF will leave less survivors but more stuff to scavenge.
    a SLOW SHTF-more possible I think, will leave more survivors(to begin with) to use up anything left more quickly.
    so depending on stuff being left lying around as a survival plan might not be survivable at all.
     
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  20. poltiregist

    poltiregist Expert Member
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    It really won't make much difference which label they won't to put themselves under scavenger , looter , prepper , thief ,they will be just as dead if their caught around here . They would probably be already killed before they reached me , but if they did I probably wouldn't bother to bury them , the ground too rocky but would let the buzzards have them . I don't plan to have to scavenge or barter , because I am a prepper .
     
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    LW is correct, the type of event will dictate the probability factor for scavenging. Slow event (economic failure), it is going to be very dangerous and few supplies available. Fast event (national grid down) and the die will be very fast and most places will have left over supplies.

    Barter / trading is a recovery phase activity, not something that happens during the die off / scavenger phase. The true prepper does not want or plan to be out and about until well after the die off has completed. Planing to scavenge from the start of a SHTF event is not prepping, it is looting. It Is also a very fast way to get killed. Once communities / very small groups start the rebuilding phase, then there will be a ton of items to scavenge. Look at California, the state is mandating Solar systems on all new homes, but that won't help on a grid down, because the city will stop pumping water. There will be an entire state to scavenge solar systems. JM2c
     
  22. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If the predictions about the number of fatalities is true and the population is decreased by 75% to 95% There is going to be a lot of stuff just laying around rotting. On my three acres there are two homes, 4 shops, 2 big pole barns and a green house and they are all full of stuff. That said I guarantee you that there will be things that I have forgotten or didn't have enough of that I'm not going to do without if I know where some of it is that isn't owned by a living person. I don't have all the possible parts that I might need to maintain everything. NOBODY can think of or have everything that they will ever need for the rest of their life. Some things you can't MAKE. A lot of things will probably never be made again in our life times so scavenging will be the only way to get those things.
     
  23. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    If and I am not rooting for a SHTF event but if we have to have one, I really want it to one of the sudden events. Most preppers will stand a much better chance of not only surviving but actually prospering. A long drawn out event like Venezuela (VZ for future reference) will endanger even the best prepared. If it goes too long, you will not only be defending from Urbanites but the government too. Thoses with supplies will be categorized as hoarders and their supplies will be confiscated by the local, county, state or federal authorities (take your pick). A fast event and the government (authorities) will not have time to react. The thugs and other two legged critters won't have time to react. The preppers best bet for survival is a national grid down. The sharpest cuts the quickest. If it became a VZ event, the rural folks would be better off to take out the grid. Safest way to protect themselves and their assets. JM2c
     
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  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think a national grid down is what will finish most of the sheeple off, until the power goes off most will be able to just about manage but once the power goes down not only will it mean no lights, no electric cooking and heating, but it also means no fuel can be pumped and no fuel means no deliveries to the shops so that's when the store shelves will start to empty-fast, that will be the end for most or at least the start of the end.
    unlike most of the sheeple, I do believe SHTF is inevitable, its just a matter of WHEN.
     
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  25. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    Asking myself if Venezuela is a pilot or test program by someone/Ishmaelites to forecast/judge/weigh how best to do it in this country...and to our people.


    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  26. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    That thought has crossed my mind too. I look at California doing everything possible to disarm their citizens and I keep asking myself why? What benefit does a STATE get from a disarmed population? The only thing I can think of it is a test pilot program for disarming the other states. I did laugh at an article about how the NJ citizens are NOT turning in their high capacity magazines. Really --- Duh.
     
  27. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Master Survivalist
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    Thievery = slavery. Why? Let's say you steal $1500 from me. Let's say that I make $1500/week. OK, I have to work a week to make up for that which you stole from me. You therefore have enslaved me for a week. I involuntarily worked for you for a week. That is slavery. That is loss of Liberty. That is war. One side or the other dies in war.
     
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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    During normal times, that is just thievery and may or may not end with the thief being incarcerated. During a SHTF event, then it is an act of war -- not loss of liberty but the strong possibility of you loosing your life, due to the stolen goods. In Japan, a murder can be looked upon as a crime of passion and has mitigating causes. A person who loses their temper and kills in a fit of rage, can get 10 years, A person who tries to skip out on a taxi fare can get 20 years, as a deliberate attempt to steal food from the taxi drivers family. During a SHTF event a thief is trying to starve you and your family. They should pay the ultimate penalty.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  29. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    It is not just that it is slavery Olde Geezer....but some of us work or have worked in very inherently hazardous occupations...involving great risk.

    A thief condemns a person to more risk taking wherein you may be killed...lose your life or limb.

    So many people today are so touchy feely ..they tend to side with the thieves..but not realize that these thieves are often condemning people to take severe risks twice or more to re earn the goods which have been stolen.

    It is no different than extreme taxation. Putting people in a position to take more extreme risks.

    And also inflation ...is disguised taxation.....according to Federal Reserve publications...thievery. You are being taxed twice under inflation...when you earn the monies and when you spend the monies. Double thievery.


    Ishmaelite bondage.


    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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