M21 Or M40 Sniper Rifle

Discussion in 'Urban Survival' started by Colt Eckert, Jun 25, 2019.

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  1. Colt Eckert

    Colt Eckert Active Member
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    In a Mogadishu (or Blackhawk Down) type situation which rifle would be more effective in your opinion? This would be in addition to your AR style primary weapon.
     
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  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Along side your AR15, I would go with a mag fed shotgun, given the described event. Urban fighting is not going to require more range that your AR15 and many if not most of the shooting will be close range snap shots. Your opponents are not going to be wearing level 4 body armor and the building material is not likely to withstand too many rounds of direct fire. JM2C
     
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  3. Colt Eckert

    Colt Eckert Active Member
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    Y'know that is a good point. Still there may or may not be a situation that would require long range. But like you mentioned that probably won't be very likely. Better to be over prepared than not though.
     
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  4. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I'll pass on both options offered.
     
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  5. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    If we switch from urban fighting to field recon patrol fighting, then we have to consider rate of fire (bolt vs. semi auto) Weight, mag capacity, and a few more variables. In the jungle, I may prefer the M40, as I would not be planing on a fire fight but a sniper action. In the middle east country side, I would probably go with the M21 for the increased rate of fire. In the hands of a good marksman, both will get the job done at long ranges.
     
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  6. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    LOL LOL LOL>...Wondering how many of us can even afford an M40 or M21 type rifle.
    Also I think these are more in line with stand off type weapons..to be used from concealment..and at range....not close in.

    But agree with TMT Tactical ..in street to street ..house to house...in Mogadishu....shotgun...would greatly help.

    Not sure...but are there not shotgun arrangements which can be added beneath the barrels of an M16 or M4 today...sometimes magazine fed....close in shotguns???

    Or even shotgun type charges for the M40 grenade launcher???


    The olde timers with whom I've had the privilege of speaking.. ..who survived WW2...told me that when going into these French villages...house to house...they did not like the M1 Garand rifle....they wanted a shotgun..but they were not plentiful...

    What many soldiers wound up doing was turning in their M1 Rifles for the Thompson 45ACP machine gun or the Grease gun also in .45ACP..for close in house to house work.
    These tools would work close up..but what they really wanted was a shotgun...as most of them were raised with the shotgun and knew their raw power..and of what they were capable close up.

    I understand this has been proven again today in house to house in Iraq and Afghanistan....with todays shotguns. The shotgun is not obsolete and fills a very important niche.



    But then again..how many of us can afford such tools as the shotgun beneath the AR platform.?? Are they even available to the general public???

    Seems to me that the Military has shotgun rounds not sold to the general public!!!??


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
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  7. Colt Eckert

    Colt Eckert Active Member
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    Those are all good points and from a tactical pov a shotgun would be good to have in the arsenal. And yes the SRS is going to be very expensive unless one finds one used and for a decent price. I think you are for more likely to be able to pick up an AR type off the street though. 223/5.56 rounds are probably going to be plentiful as are 12 gauge shells. But if you are sitting on the tower or on top of a building or even taking cover behind your humvee (or side-by-side) and need to engage or make contact with an armed enemy from a distance then a decent long range rifle would be helpful. At least that is my humble opinion and 2 cents.
     
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  8. SparkyRed

    SparkyRed New Member
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    I would most likely go old-school. A vintage bolt-action rifle w/scope for long distance. For clearing houses or close quarters an AR platform would be imo more practical. A 12 gauge and sidearm as well.
     
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  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    My arsenal is determined by usage need and distance. Usage need:

    1 Up close and very personal---- Hand gun, ar15 pistol, and of course the very versatile shotgun.

    2) Force multiplier situation -- AR15 platform again- rifle length, many calibers to choose from, 556, 762 x 39. 300 black, 6.5 Grendel, etc..

    3) Long distance shooting. Here I would go with a solid bolt action hunting rifle. There are too many calibers to list but they will get the job done.

    Now if money is tight, a person could go with an AR10 platform and have a force multiplier and long distance shooter combined. Just remember the increase ammo cost for maintaining your shooting skills. Just my thoughts on how I am selecting my firearms.
     
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  10. SparkyRed

    SparkyRed New Member
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    True enough. The right tools for the job is priority one. Always better to be over prepared than being caught without adequet eqipment
     
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  11. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I would go with the M-40. I like the traditional lines and for long distance sniper type shooting a bolt action is fine. Even better would be their new Mod 13 Mk 7 300mag rifle. Talk about reach out and touch someone. A Barrett would be nice but weighs too much and that 50 BMG round is a little too much both in weight and recoil for anything normal. It is more of a placed weapon than a portable one.
     
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  12. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    In a Blackhawk Down situation besides an M-4? Rather than the wight of another gun and ammo, I'll take a can or two of 5.56 ammo. Their problem was not shooting at long distance but running out of ammo.
     
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  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I'm writing this while very tired. Do forgive. Shortly, I'll be adding some tequila.

    Time was -- and everybody is going to remember this -- scout-sniper team was a spotter equipped with an M14 variant and the sniper with an M40, a.k.a modified Remington 700. Shooter gets his directions from the spotter. I don't know how to say the following without sounding like some sh##, but the guy who really has to have the brains/training/Zen (plus the freaking radio) is the spotter. Somebody chime in here and add to what I've said. Set me straight. Fill in the blanks.

    I comment so I can get in my wish list to Santy Claws. Herezzzz the toy this old phart has at the top of his bucket-list. I want a SprngFld arms M1A Tanker. I've held them. Luv at first hug. As a boy, could field strip an M14 and re-assemble in 45 seconds.

    6595c35c283c642a51447addbfaccb6d.png

    6595c35c283c642a51447addbfaccb6d.jpeg
     
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  14. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    As I understand it, the spotter and shooter are both trained to do each others job. The real test is can they both do the math and shoot the the weapon the same. My son and I can both do the math but he will beat me at the range. Don't tell him I said that.
     
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  15. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    The spotter and the shooter typically trade off. You can only stay "on the scope" for so long before you loose your edge.
     
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  16. SparkyRed

    SparkyRed New Member
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    Sometimes the spotter and sniper do split up. They do their own thing dictated by the given situation. But yes they are almost always together. They don't have to be best friends but they do have to get along.
     
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  17. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    I spent a year assembling a Long Range rifle (Remington #85197) optic set-up, only to discover that I had developed AMD (Age-related Macula Degeneration) in my right eye. Being right handed for 72+ years.........I attempted to shoot left handed, but it is simply never going to work. I can't consistently mount the rifle. I am sad about going blind.
     
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  18. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Sorry about the loss of sight. Blindness would be my worst nightmare. I am right handed but I do shoot long guns left handed. With more practice, maybe you can make the adjustment. I primarily shoot hand guns right handed. My shooting style does raise some comment at the range.

    Maybe you could change to a lighter stock and be able to mount the rifle. Some of those new composite stocks are pretty darn light. You could also consider a carbon fiber barrel further reduce the weight. I will keep my fingers crossed that you do find a way to continue your shooting activities.
     
  19. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    To be honest, I could think of a lot of things I'd rather spend my money n than either a slicked-up Remington 700 or M1A1 -- like fencing in another pasture or building a smaller barn! My particular version of a "sniper rifle" is an old Mossberg bolt-gun in .30-'06 and a mid-range Nikon 3-9 X 50 scope. It shoots better than I ever will and works just fine, even though I lose a tenth of a second chambering a round with a long-action bolt.

    Why would anyone who wants to survive and prosper in a SHTF scenario want to buy one of those gold-plated boogers?
     
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  20. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    @Duncan

    Some can afford those "Gold Plated Boogers" and not miss the dollars. More power to them. ME, my rifle is Thompson Center 6.5 Creedmoor. The scope is a Vortex 6-24 x 50. this is a budget rifle I have tuned and it will shoot out past 1,000 yards. Your Mossberg probably cost more than my T/C Compass. Your scope may have cost more than my scope (I got a very good deal). So maybe you have the "Silver Plated Booger" and I have the "Bronze Plated Booger". What ever each want and can afford is okay by me. I know some that have a 50 BMG, too much for me but they enjoy it.
     
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  21. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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