Muzzleloader Choices-rifle Or Smoothbore.

Discussion in 'Hunting / Fishing / Trapping' started by Keith H., Nov 24, 2016.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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  2. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I LOVE my muzzle loaders but they take a back seat to the 12 bore shotgun, .22 rifle, A.R. and
    my handguns for survival.
    I've taken over 60 Ohio Whitetail, some with a bow, many in the s.g. slug only days with a
    12 bore s.g., and several with a rifle and some with a muzzle loader.
    I have about 30 pounds of Holy Black safely stored.
    OUT OF THE HOUSE! :D
    I have a .58 Jeager and.40 caliber Bucks County hand built for me.
    The .58 has AAA fancy walnut, Colrain swamped barrel, Siler lock etc.
    (yes I have extra flints, and caps.)

    I also have a 12 bore s.g. I've taken rabbits with.
    FUN!
     
  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    If you had to leave home & survive in the wilderness possibly long term, & you could only take one firearm with you, which would you choose jeager & why?
    Keith.
     
  4. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    A .22 rim fire rifle that I knew to be as reliable as possible and at least 500 rounds of ammo.
    It's better than a sharp stick against gobblins, (humans), will take a deer with a brain shot,
    take small birds, and everything in between.
    I'd NOT take large game like deer if possible as keeping the meat in the wilderness is problematic.
    I suppose one could smoke/dry the meat and tools can be made from the bones and the hide
    might be useful.
    Small game requires less work, thus burns fewer precious calories.
    Just my 2 cents.
     
  5. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    The LAST thing on my survival list in the way of firearms would be a muzzle loader.
    Way too many better survival guns that a black powder weapon.
    Frankly I'd rather have archery equipment than a black powder weapon.
     
  6. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    That may be because you have not had much experience with muzzle-loaders jeager. There are many advantages with muzzle-loader over the breech-loader for long term wilderness living. I am not referring to how good they are in a fire fight against faster loading firearms, I am referring to there superior qualities for hunting, & they can still be used for defence. In an ideal situation you would be travelling with someone else who could also carry a modern firearms.
    Keith.
    Advantages of a Flintlock Muzzle-loader.

    1) Ammo is less expensive than a modern equivalent caliber firearm.

    2) The smoothbore is very versatile, being able to digest round ball, bird shot, & buckshot, or any combination of two of these (can also use minies).

    3) The fusil is lighter to carry than a modern equivalent sized gun.

    4) You can vary the load if needs be.

    5) The smoothbore will digest other projectiles besides lead.

    6) Lead can be retrieved from downed game & remoulded with a simple mould & lead ladle. This means that you can carry less lead, & more of the lighter gunpowder.

    7) You can make your own gunpowder.

    8) You can use the lock to make fire without the need for gunpowder.

    9) You can use gunpowder for gunpowder tinder fire lighting if needs be.

    10) IF the lock should malfunction (these are very robust & it is not likely) you can easily repair it if you are carrying a few spare springs & a few simple tools.

    11)If you do not have any spare parts & the lock malfunctions, you can easily convert it to a tinderlock or matchlock & continue using it.

    12) You do not need a reloader, brass shells, caps, or primers. The latter have been known to break down in damp conditions or if they are stored for too long.

    13) Wadding for ball or shot is available from natural plant materials or homemade leather or rawhide.

    14) Less chance of being affected by future ammunition control legislation.

    15) Gunpowder is easily obtainable providing you have a muzzle-loader registered in your name regardless of caliber (NSW)

    16) A .32 caliber flintlock rifle is more powerful than a .22 rimfire, less expensive to feed, more accurate over a greater distance, able to take small & medium sized game, & other than not being able to use shot (unless it is smoothbore), it has all the attributes of the other flintlocks.

    17) Damage from a .62 caliber-.75 caliber pistol or long arm is in the extreme. Wounded prey is unlikely to escape.

    18) By using buck & ball you are unlikely to miss your target. This load is capable of taking out more than one target.

    19) There is less kick-back to a muzzle-loading gun.

    20) Antique Flintlock muzzle-loading guns do not require a license, registration, or a permit to purchase in NSW Australia.
     
  7. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Yes you are right of course.
    I have front stuffer rifles and a shotgun and they are a treat to shoot.

    My .40 caliber Bucks County rock lock was handmade for me by Keith Lisle.
    AAAA fancy maple stock..gorgeous.
    Colrain swamped barrel and Davis lock.
    I paid a grand for it some 20 years and and couldn't replace it for 5 grand today.

    A place for Worshipers of Holy Black to shop.
    Really nice b.p. arms but pricey because they are very nice and most are
    hand built by craftsmen.

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    Keith H. likes this.
  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I think that the answer to this question about what weapon is most useful hinges a lot on where you live. Where I live guns are a part of our way of life. I have 40 or 50 guns in my house and am never more then 10 feet from a gun. I have ammo in mass quantities and have reloading equipment in mass as well. Hunting and fishing is something we start doing as children and for many it is a life time pleasure and passion. Women are almost as rabid about it as their men in many cases.

    In East Texas the biggest two animals that are not domestic are small white tailed deer and feral hogs. There isn't much that I can't kill with a 22 lr or a 30-30 Winchester. That said what we have in almost endless numbers is small game. For rabbits, squirrels and birds a good quality air rifle is about all you need and most of what you said about the benefits of a muzzle loader is true for a quality spring piston air rifle.

    If I was going to a muzzle loader I think a musket was a just great tool. It was accurate enough for deer sized animals and also could be loaded as a shot gun. The thing is though that I can do the same thing with any single shot shotgun. All you need is a bunch of primers. You just use the base of a shell and then load it from the front like you would any muzzle loader. I literally have thousands of primers. I think a little 20 gauge shot gun set up like this would be handy.

    I can understand the draw of primitive weapons. They would be especially attractive in a place with a repressive government that heavyhandedly restricts guns possession and use. I am amazed that they let you have muzzle loaders or bows to tell you the truth. If you don't have that sort of situation though the attraction is more romantic than necessity. For survival I want the best thing that I can afford and that, for me, would not be a muzzle loader.

    I guess if I could only have one gun it would be a Ruger 10-22 tricked out and with a bunch of 30 round magazines. A 22lr might not be the best weapon for every application but it is one of the few that WILL do it all from bunnies to elk It will kill them all. I might have to track it but it will die and I will get it. The same is true for defensive use. It will do the job and if you practice with it a lot like you can afford to do with a 2 lr then you can pick your shots and then it really is deadly. They even sell kits not that will allow you to reload a 22 rimfire.

    Each of us will need to find our way and for each person that way will be slightly different because we all live in different places and have different talents and different ways of dealing with things. I say it often, survival is an art form.
     
  9. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Don't mess with Texas!:D

    Ohio whitetail deer can get pretty big.
    My largest, an 11 point, was an archery harvest and hanging weight was 205 pounds.
    It is or was in the top 50 for Ohio archery harvests.
    It's in the Ohio Big Buck Club books.
    Believe it or not the #1 "industry" in Ohio is agriculture.
    A really big farm would be 250 acres, not large by most standards but there are many of them.
    Lots of dairy farms also.
    Pastures and clover fields mean groundhogs.
    One summer I took over 200 of the destructive critters.
    I generally hunt on my 15 acres, 14 of it woods surrounded by corn and wheat fields.
    The deer have plenty of food and my woods has a lot of white oak.
    Deer love acorns and I love venison.
     
  10. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Go Buckeyes! One of my best friends and next door neighbors comes from Ohio. He came down here in the late 70s when the auto industry went bad back then and then went back when the oil industry when south here. He returned here and lived with my for several months while he got his place next door built when the auto industry tanked again. He really like the Texas winters a lot. He is adjusting to our summers. Texas fishing is something that he especially likes. I've had a lot of fun introducing him to some of our Texas wildlife like gators and 35 pound RATS.
     
  11. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    GULP! 35 pound rats?????

    I guess a rat cat wouldn't last none too long.
     
  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Seriously, look up nutria rat!! The first time someone sees one they think they need to lay off the sauce!! It is hilarious. They generally weigh about 15 to 18 pounds but I've seen them a lot bigger than that. They were imported to eat the water hyacinths that were clogging up our waterways and then became another invasive problem critter. Think beaver with a long skinny scaly tail. Actually they are pretty good eating and have pelts that are a lot like beaver.
     
  13. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Oh, yeah. I forgot about the nutria.
    in the 1960's and for a few years raising nutria was the rage in Ohio but it died out.
    I don't think they do well in the wild in Ohio winters.
    It can get quit cold in N.E. Ohio but are generally mild.
    We did get hit one winter by an Arctic blast and lake effect snows.
    2 feet on snow and -25 f. in less that 24 hours shut the State down. We just don't have the equipment to cope with that much that quickly and that cold.
     
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