My "assault " Lever Rifles And "assault " Pistols

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by watcherchris, Oct 28, 2018.

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  1. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    In view of the latest shooting and followed by the same olde "Usual Suspects" coming out of the woodwork calling for more gun control...and with predictability....it was time for me to get my shots in.


    Working out in the garage and I got this inspiration and decided to post photos of my "Assault" lever rifle and matching "Assault" Pistol.


    This first rifle is calibrated in .357 Magnum. I decided long ago that I wanted a new one...
    The pistol is a .357 Magnum by Ruger..the GP 100 "Assault " pistol.

    I made a bad decision and let my previous Rossi "Assault" Lever rifle go.

    Took me a few years to get a replacement.

    152ceeb6e788eb8c4e8724dd6c9f09b7.jpeg





    And here is my second "Assault" lever rifle and matching "Assault" pistol...

    They are both Henry Brand "Assault " lever rifles...and matching pistol calibrations.

    This one being calibrated in .41 Magnum...for both pistol and rifle.

    I always wanted to have such an set up with pistol and rifle in the same calibration. This is a surprisingly accurate pistol for what it is...single action in .41 Magnum.

    152ceeb6e788eb8c4e8724dd6c9f09b7.jpeg

    Again .."Assault" lever rifle matching the pistol in calibration.


    Here is a close up of this .41 Magnum Blackhawk Assault pistol...

    152ceeb6e788eb8c4e8724dd6c9f09b7.jpeg


    Remember at the voting booth.................


    If you cannot be trusted with a gun....you will never be trusted with a vote.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Great sets of toys
     
  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Saw a video article about the Henry in .41 mag. It's got little recoil and all of the killing power of a .44 mag. The .41 mag case capacity and bore diameter just happen to be more efficient to the task -- the .41 uses less powder to get the same energies of the .44 mag. .

    Where I'm from, many hunters use tree stands for short-range deer hunting. Just the .41 mag handgun would be sufficient. The rifle would get one some extra range, however if you are in the woods and the deer is just 25 or 50 yards away, gimme a break, just take the revolver -- less weight and trouble climbing to your tree stand. A dead deer is a dead deer is supper on the table / meat in the freezer.
     
  4. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Here is a couple of my reloads in .41 Magnum.

    I am certain Olde Geezer....you can quickly note the important characteristics of what these two loadings are capable.

    500558470369e7fec7213a804c86bf87.jpeg


    This is the first reload on which I have ever used a gas check bullet. it works surprisingly well in keeping down the leading in the barrel.

    On the left a 250 grain wide flat nosed cast gas check/WFNGC

    And on the right a copper plated semi wad cutter at 210 grains of weight.

    Either one represents a significant mass in moving weight/energy delivery.

    I wanted the cast gas check in particularly for heavy duty uses...big boned...thick skinned.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I love the lead bullet with gas-check. A lot of folk say that gas-checks almost eliminate leading -- even with bullets that are not alloyed to be hard lead. I wish that more folk were aware of this simple yet profoundly effective little disk of copper.

    Talk about delivering energy, I'd call it "The Hammer"!

    Some critter gettin' nailed with that bad boy, wouldn't be going far afterwards, if anywhere at all. Lights out!

    Me, I'm sticking with my .357 toys, however I know full good and well that the .41 mag would be superior. I love shooting single actions. Have owned a few.

    You nail an aggressive human felon with your "Hammer" load -- his soul is gonna be standing in judgement in a heartbeat. Maybe I should say "lack of a heartbeat."
     
  6. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    I agree with Texdanm's assessment. Pound for pound...in a day of all these high capacity semi Auto pistols...the .357 Magnum still stands out there in raw potential/energy for those who know how to use it.

    I am sufficiently impressed with these Wide Flat Nosed Gas Check bullets in .41 Magnum...that I am thinking about ordering more in .357 Diameter...Wide Flat Nosed Gas Checks.

    Here this link....

    http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP38180

    These are heavy at 180 grains. Mostly I shoot about 158 grain...but like this bullet too in gas check.

    Thinking about ordering 3 boxes to start. Should be able to deliver some serious energy in a revolver or rifle in .357 Magnum calibration.

    This would make for some interesting reloading.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
     
  7. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The 41 mag was the best of the three magnum pistol rounds. The 357 mag and the 44 mag were actually just over loaded specials. the 38 special and the 44 special were both in existence before they were loaded into a magnum level. In reality the 357 mag and the 44 mag are only longer by 1/10th of an inch so you can't load them into a gun chambered for the special version. Both of those magnums are basically just +P+ rounds.

    The 41 mag was developed from scratch and really is superior to either the 357 or the 44 mags because of a better balance of case capacity and bullet weight. When I used to load for power and best accuracy for my 357 mag I actually loaded in midway 38 special brass. This made it a compressed load and the burn was extremely uniform making it very accurate. I never did it but I imagine the same would have been true of the 44. The 41 is the only one that actually is designed to take full advantage of the case size.

    A warning is needed here. I loaded these for MY personal use and used yellow midway 38 special brass for this. The rest of my 38 special loads were all nickel plated cases. You do NOT want to use one of these loads in a light framed 38 special. I wouldn't even use them in a heavy framed 38 special that was +P certified or even a K framed S&W 357 magnum. There were ultra hot loads best shot in Thompson Center pistols, 357 mag Ruger Blackhawks, Ruger Security 6s, Model 28 N frame S&W and very limited use in the L frame S&Ws.
     
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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The .38 special had a longer case than the .38 S&W and the .38 Colt so that no one would chamber the higher pressure cartridge in the older revolvers incapable of safely firing it. Same for the .357 mag. vs. .38 special. Were one to fully load the .357 case with the same powder normally used, the revolver could come apart and violently so. The .357 mag. has 2x to over 3x the energy of a .38 special / .38 special +P. The .38 special simply can't compete with the .357 mag. in the realm of nailing a human into the land of "can't return fire" (maybe not ever again). Heaven only knows how many eastern whitetail deer have been put into freezers with the 357.

    The .41 mag case capacity vs. powder required is much more efficient than the .44 mag. Short story is that over the long haul, one can save a lot of powder with the .41 mag and get the same job done as with the .44 mag. The .357 isn't in the same league as the .41 or .44 mag. revolvers. The .357 mag. has a long track record in the realm of bringing down humans. Using a larger revolver is usually not needed. Sometimes .44 mag or .41 mag rounds sail through a human without opening-up. Therefore, defense loads for these big bores differ from hunting loads.

    Law enforcement loved the .41 mag. due to its ability to cut right into a car or truck back in the days when vehicles were made with real steel. I remember a story from back in the 1970s where a highway patrolman nuked a fellow in a big delivery van. Cop made the shot while in chase and the bullet went through the back, through a item of cargo, through the seat's metal back and cushion, on into the fleeing felon.

    Back in the 1930s when the .357 mag. came out for law enforcement agencies, it was loaded hot and with FMJ bullets. This was for the purpose of penetrating vehicles. These were large frame revolvers that chambered the .357 mag.
     
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  9. Duncan

    Duncan Master Survivalist
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    I had a Smith Model 686 -- a .357 Magnum double action revolver with a 4" barrel. Why I sold it I'll never know. Ever since then I'd thought of the same kind of rig mentioned here -- revolver and lever-action carbine -- only in .357 rather than .41 (the availability of .38 spl is a good thing, IMNHO).

    However, as of right now, my only handgun is a Ruger 9e autoloader in 9 mm, and I'm not going to spend any more money until The Boss says I can, which is after both the goat-shed and the chicken coop get built (and probably after she trades the Honda Civic in on an Subaru Outback)!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  10. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Stopped in Bass Pro today and purchased two bags of 100 count each of .38 Special Starline brass unprimed. I put them away for now.

    The clerk told me they were having difficulty getting .357 Magnum Brass...of late. Hope this bottleneck soon is solved.

    But .38 Special is fine if you know how to both use and reload it. Also it works fine in this lever action.

    Also bought two nylon Web slings for these two "Assault Lever Rifles."

    Got to thinking it was about time I got slings for them. Paid cash for all.

    Also stopped at Wally World and picked up a second batch of .22 Long rifle Thunderbolts in two 500 round boxes and put them away ..again paying cash.

    Thinking about switching my bullet selection/purchases now to 200 grain .358 Remington round nosed or spire point bullets to use in my Thompson Contender barrel.....35 Remington.
    Time to stock up on these supplies....though I can load this caliber with .357 Magnum bullets as well....but they tend to be on the light side for this calibration.


    By the way Duncan. The S&W 686 is a very good design..as so many other companies are copying it. I like it in the 6 inch barrel.

    Agree ...the availability of .38 Special as well as .357 Mangum is a big draw of these designs.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  11. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Wow Olde Geezer..

    You got my gray matter going into overdrive and I pulled out my Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions and learned something I knew not a few minutes before referring to these pages.

    There were several .38 Caliber cartridges in times past for which we hardly think about today outside of the .38 Special and or the .357 Magnum.

    I am seeing listings for a .38 Colt Long and also to my surprise a .38 Colt Short. Also the .38 Smith and Wesson...and of course the .38 Special.

    Also Olde Geezer..and to my surprise...what today is called the .357 Maximum...is not new. There were versions of it in the olde days with cases just as long as the .357 Maximum.

    I think the significance today is the larger variety of powder, primers and bullet selection.

    But it is interesting to note that the .357 Maximum is not a new concept.

    There are calibers of .38 diameter cartridges of which I've never heard before purchasing this book. It is like a walk down history lane...so to speak.

    Thanks for getting the gray matter going.

    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite
     
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  12. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I love lever action rifles, and wheel guns. I guess I can attribute it to my love of the Old West. Having a set of same caliber rifle and pistol makes eminent sense. Especially, when that caliber will work effectively on just about anything you would need to shoot in North America. I see carrying one type of ammo a distinct advantage.
     
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  13. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I agree with Morgan101. I like the 357 cartridge for a lever action rifle, because the same caliber in a pistol is easier to control. If you can't bring it down with a long barreled lever action 357, don't shoot at it.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Here's some fun videos. The vids concern using lever actions as survival rifles. These have some scientific method in them if you allow the definition of "science" to be as stretchy as Spandex. Most of all, however, is that they are just fun. If you just want to skip through info vids, then these are your anatomy lab specimens.

    I like levers, being an American. I like how lethal they are relative to "assault rifles" using FMJs. Flat nosed bullets kill and maim = how wonderful. Friend of mine's brother'n'law used to kill dogs for ranchers; money but easy money. One dog he talked about popping was a German Shepherd-ish canine (feral / mangy) and he said that the dog was almost ripped in halves; 30-30. Knew a rescue squad fellow who rolled on a home-invasion shooting; guy goes bat-sh## crazy obsessing on a female; tries to bust through the door of his woman's female friend; the girl's dad hits him in upper leg w/30-30, bullet touches femur; the guy's leg was almost torn off, piece of meat held it on.

    "Old Timey" levers are NOT to be trifled with. They are short and lightweight = mega-handy. You can get them in handgun cartridge chamberings. Aperture sights are available from many distributors. Everybody likes them. They have put millions of tons of venison on supper tables for 150 years plus.

    Anybody wanting to view serious studies, these sure ain't fer you.



    The fellow in the next video is showing-off his "Appalachian Scout Rifle" (from the great state of West Virginia). There's no sling on his lever. I'm gonna have to find a sling video.



    Retired sheriff's recomendation


    Sling videos



    The next sling configuration is more for strict accuracy shooting. I've used this through the decades. Know that perpetual use of this sling position and keeping the puppy a bit too tight can inevitably end in your having nerve damage. Not up for debate; I have left arm ulner nerve damage for all of the thousands of hours shooting using this configuration. If you're not going to go through tens of thousands of rounds of ammo; don't worry about it. If however you feel lack of blood flow to your arm / tingly fingers, brother loosen that sling. As I write this, my left pinky finger is tingling and I've got a touch of burning under my arm. I screwed-up. Of course, my left ear is gone; got 50 dB of tinnitus ringing away as I write this.

    This fellow doing the video knows how to do this spot-on correct; every so often on the web I actually run into an actual professional; the following guy you should pay attention to:



    Here are some sling positionings that I never use / I don't know about them. However, you may benefit from seeing these. Me, I have no "assault rifles". Call me an old stick'n'th'mud, however you wouldn't want to go up against me or any other "old guard" fellers; if I were going up against somebody like me, I get right with the Lord.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ylOnyIgSA

    I hope these vids help. Lever rifles NEVER became obsolete. A sling is NOT an accessory.

    For accurate shooting, you WILL learn how to effectively use your weapon's sling. You WILL always practice sling position while at the rifle range. Do not insult those who put in the time engineering and building your rifle. Shooting from a bench is ONLY for the purpose of sighting-in your weapon. I am perpetually made humble beyond words when shooting my minute of angle rifles, for my skills do not match the engineering of the weapon. The onus is always on ME to improve MY skills. Got a fine rifle and ammo? You screw the pooch out there, then it was YOU who failed. No blame, no excuses.
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  15. wally

    wally Expert Member
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    awesome firearm porn!!!!!! seriously firearms are beautiful and my go to firearm is a 30-30 lever action....
     
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  16. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    I have filled out my AR platform. Now it is get the shotgun and then the lever action rifles. I will be going for a 44 mag Henry Tactical. My son is getting the 357 Henry Tactical. When I pass, senior son gets all my firearms, so we don't want to duplicate calibers / firearms. The matching caliber hand guns are still up in the air, at least for me. The 44 mag is a pretty stout pistol and I am going to want something that is ported / compensated or maybe even both.
     
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Sounds super!

    https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2020/07/henry-big-boy-x-rifle-test/
     
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  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Thanks OG for the videos. I call it Henry Tactical. You got it right.Henry Big Boy X. I have waited a long time for the side loading gate.
       
      TMT Tactical, Nov 14, 2020
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    There is the parallax effect with scopes wherein if one's eye is not centered on the center of the scope glass then the bullet strike will be off. Therefore, make sure you are looking straight through the very center of the scope.

    This isn't what I want to talk about.

    One gets a parrallax effect when a scope is mounted high above the bore. You have the sight path, the bore path and the bullet trajectory. I put a graphic below to demonstrate. Tall scope mounts will force you to make these calculations -- where do I need my lines to converge. The lower a scope is to the bore, the better. This really matters in target shooting and in precision distance shooting. In short range hunting, it really doesn't matter for crap -- especially when we are talking a shoulder shot on deer. If you are off an inch, even two inches, so what -- the dang deer is dead.

    After sighting in for the distance that you expect your game to present, test the point of impact at various other ranges -- shorter distances and longer distances. Write-down the point of impacts as revealed by your targets. "I was xx inches low at xx yards." "I was xx inches high at xx yards." Keep that index card with that rifle. When using the rifle, look at the card and memorize your distance/strike-point numbers -- not difficult at all, especially if you are a visual thinker. The numbers may be so tight at the ranges imposed upon you that those numbers matter little, just go out and kill yourself a deer and don't worry about the techie-crap.

    ffc7ee0432d096608ed8342872e54225.jpeg
     
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  20. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    For those new to lever rifles, when loading, do NOT push the first cartridge in all the way such that the side-gate closes. Leave each cartridge's head of case sticking out out so that the next cartridge follows the one in front of it on into the under-barrel tube. Only when loading the last cartridge of a series of cartridges, let the gate close. The reason is that the tension on the magazine tube spring gets greater and greater. Say that the tube will hold eight rounds. If you let the gate close on cartridge number seven, then when you attempt to insert cartridge number eight, the tube spring tension is such that the case head of round seven is pushed back so far as to occlude the gate mechanism from opening. Even if cartridge seven is not blocking the gate, trying to get number eight in there could be an unhappy challenge.


    ffc7ee0432d096608ed8342872e54225.jpeg
     
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  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    As to high recoil in a handgun, one can always go single-action with plowshare grip. These puppies simply role-up in your hand as opposed to coming straight back and slamming the web of your hand. Of course, you already know this. An owl-head grip will do the same if all of its back is rounded.

    I've never fired a revolver with a Bisley grip. Have you? If so, what do you think about them.

    If a barrel is top-ported, it will help hold-down muzzle-rise, but man-oh-man are these puppies LOUD! Plus, at night, you have flames shooting out the top of the barrel -- i.e. exactly where your eyes are pointing.

    When firing or just being next to someone firing hot big-bore revolvers, I've felt the shock wave go up my nose. The pressure wave can be felt by your eyes. It can be like being around artillery -- maybe not that bad, but still ... . These things will thump you.

    As to double-action big-bore revolvers with ported barrels, I don't know jack sh## about them other than that what I've read.

    Fun video:


    .
     
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  22. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "Shirt with a hole in it" I think that it was back in the 1980s that it became popular with the wimpy urbanites to have pants or shirts that had been shot. I was working where there was a mix of people not only from all over America, but form all over planet Earth. I guess there were three of four of us who were not at all averse to blowing holes through their clothes ... not while they were wearing them of course ... I mean they weren't standing around nekkid while we shot their blue jeans ... did the shooting at the range or back-40 ... they had other clothes ... you know what I mean. Lead rounds leave lead stains on fabric. Buckshot = a lot of lead embedded into the fabric -- especially on the denim of blue jeans. They had to somehow get the lead out ... not my job. I guess you could soak the fabric in bore-cleaner, then wash. Over the decades, my wife has HATED it when I get my clothes soaked in bore cleaner, because she can't handle the smell. Me, I've lived in a world of chemicals; I like the smell of Hoppe's 9. Downside, known guys developing lymphomas; not good.
    .
     
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  23. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Photo of freeze video

    upload_2020-11-14_16-3-29.png
     
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  24. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    OK, here is the thing about the lever-action rifles versus the assault rifles especially the AR-type in the 5.56 nato round. The AR-15 is based on the full auto M-16 line of American military rifles. It was introduced during the Vietnam conflict and was a great answer to the needs and aims of that sort of war. First off you have to understand that there was a change in philosophy that came with that tie and weapon. It was correctly understood that the best way to win a conflict was to destroy and enemies' will to fight. this is better done by causing massive casualties with as few immediate deaths as possible.

    When the enemy loses the ability to cope with and take care of the casualties the people in the field lose heart pretty fast. Seeing one of your people die a fast clean death makes you mad as hell and hate your enemy. watching someone die a slow miserable death because your backers can't take care of the casualties because they are overwhelmed is a totally different thing.

    The M-16 is a pretty good weapon to do this sort of thing. the 22 caliber FMJ bullet puts small holes in the body with minimal damage as far as immediate stopping power or death unless the heart or brain is hit. It will take a person out of a battle but not just drop them with one shot. Before this change in philosophy, the 30 caliber was king and even in the FMJ military format it was a bone breaker and was a pretty good stopper with a hit anywhere in the body.

    the other reason for the change in Vietnam was that in a dense jungle you didn't often have a clear clean view of your target. there was a lot more spray and pray in the jungle than there had been in the European battlefields and there was a need for each individual to carry more rounds. The M-16 was the answer to and the descendent of the Thompsom 45 caliber and the M-1 carbine in the 30 caliber carbine. A smaller lighter weapon with much smaller lighter ammo. For jungle and assault purposes the M-16 was great. It allowed a lot of ammo with minimal weight and created massive casualties without being especially deadly as a one-hit weapon.

    The lever action is over a hundred years old but in many ways was the answer at that time to a similar need. It was lighter and had more firepower than the bolt action rifles that it replaced for civilian use in fairly close quarters out to 150 to 200 yards. It was never designed for a scope and note intended to be a long-range target weapon. It was for fast close shots at often moving targets where you needed to possible fire several rounds to make a hit and kill.

    the 30-30 was just the top power to that line of weapons. The early runs were popular in the pistol calibers of that time. A 38-40 or 44-40 was a great round for most of the needs of the time and allowed you to only have to provide one sort ofammo for rifle and handgun. That advantage is still true with the 357 mag and to some extent the 44 mag. In my openion, the 4 mag is a little too much for defense against human targets and the weight of the guns, ammo and the recoil makes it less suitable for most defensive uses...unless you live in bear country andthen it is KING.

    This idea has been repeated over and over the Thompson 45 paired with the colt 45 ACP was a winner in its time. Now the 9mm is often being paired with an auto pistol and a litemachinggun in the same caliber.

    Pistol rounds are not the best design for rifle use BUT in the area of survival, you have to make comprimises. A handgun is with you and at hand constantly while if you are going to do anything except stand guard you just can't have a rifle in your hands. You can pair with autos in the 9mm and 45 ACP, with lever actions you have the 357/38 and the 44 mag/44 special. Both the 44 mag and the 357 mag are tollerable for hunting up to most of the deer family while the 9mm and 45 are pretty weak for hunting except very close range. The advantage of having a lighter alternitive that works well for the smaller game can be a plus if you are a reloader. The auto rounds become undependable in auto weapons if they are down loaded.

    I will not be causing many casualties in a survival situation. I want you DEAD. If I injure you and you survive you may recover and come back. Next time you may just sit out at a safe range and take me out with a long-range shot that I have no hope of defendig myself against. If I hit you and you go down if you get up I will shoot you again even if you are trying to run away. If you are still alive but down when the fight is over I will come andput you out of your misery.

    For me and my needs, I prefer a round that is designed to kill and not cause a casualty. I'm not going to be assaulting people and if you try to assault me I want you dead and not just chased off for now. I live in a forested area and my normal defensive range will be under 150 yards. If it was more than 200 yards I might think about a scoped rifle. I have those too but in this case, I talking about a two gun constant carry sort of armament.

    What you have in the house when you are out and about does you no good. When things are as I suspect they would be after any sort of sociatal collapse I will have a handgun and long gun at hand all the time. When I am wrking in the garden I may lean my rifle against something near me but will always have he handgun. I prefer the lighter and handier weapons for this but still want something that offers a good chance of offering a one shot stop.

    In the perfict situation, I think that the 41mag would be nearly perfict but it just isn't offered in as many weapons and doesn't have the down load special round companion. The 41 mag was designed as a man stopper and not a hunting round but too many of the police around the country found its recoil objectionable. ??? When I would be shooting back at someone that was shooting at me I don't think that I would even notice the recoil. Maybe it would be a bit much for plinking or target shooting but that isn't what it was designed for.

    The 41mag is a man stopper. the recoil is fully and easily controlable and much less than the 44 mag. I can put 6 rounds in the torso of aman in a flash. The recoil will make it climbbut all six will be in the body. i can't do that with a 44 mag as fast. The 357 mag is easy and even with one hand, it is controlable. Honestly my defence reloads in 357mag are comparable to the 41mag. In either the S&W N frame or the Ruger you can push the pressures pretty high if you know what you are doing. the colt and the k frame S&W should not be pushed that hard.

    I have had several pairs sets over the years but now only have the 357 handgu/ rifle and the 22lr handgun/rifle. I tried the 44 mag pair but just didn't like it. For some strange reason the 44mag in a lever bruses me where a bolt action or lever action 338 winchester mag doesn't bother me a bit. ???

    I reload and have a couple of thousand pieces of brass for that and probably fifve hundred to a thousand loaded. I buy cast bullets in 500 round boxs and have almost three of those and then a bunch of boxes of jacketed bullets. lots of power and several thousand primers means that I can shoot the 357mag/38 for a looooong time.

    If you have faith in it the 9mm is a favorite for a lot of people. You just need to make sure that you double of tripple tap your targets to make SURE that they go down and stay down. Modern 9mm loaded with good hollow points step it up a LOT. In orderto have them in mass withut investing a fortune though you need to reload them.
     
    wally and TMT Tactical like this.
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