Mysterious Virus Spreads In China

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by LastOutlaw, Jan 11, 2020.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist,

    Madam and I are in semi-isolation for now.

    This place is loaded for the long haul.
     
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  2. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    If this virus spreads to cover the globe I sure wouldn't want to be caught in a high populated area or someone that was depending on their neighbors to participate in some kind of survival help plan . Bartering and community sharing will go out the window . Those set up for isolation and self reliance will have the advantage in this developing epidemic .
     
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  3. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    This scenario was practiced by the highway patrol if my memory serves me correctly in the state of Colorado . A practice drill was performed shutting down a highway and testing everyone for an fictitious virus . This drill was done before this China virus started . Anyone refusing to be vaccinated for the virus was immediately apprehended . There was three buses for those arrested one for adult males one for adult females and one for children . They were then hauled off to separate concentration camps for detention . This info came from "the common sense show " on you tube . Right now to the best of my knowledge there is no magic vaccination so motorist can not be vaccinated and sent merrily on their way .
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    How long will it take to develop a cure for this new China virus ? Despite multi countries efforts there still is not a cure for the AIDS virus even after at least a couple of decades trying and millions of dollars spent trying to find the cure .
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Viruses evolve so quickly, there will NEVER be a vaccine for them much less a cure. There's no cure for the common cold.

    There exist anti-viral agents. That's great. But, that's all.

    Cure? LOL!
     
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  6. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  8. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There is seldom a "cure" for any virus. Once you get it then you have to battle through with it. The only "cure" for any viral infection is via a vaccine and that takes a while especially when they are not even certain where this virus came from. there are some that believe that it may have originated in a snake species that they eat and sell the meat of in China. ??? There have been cases of flu that originated in birds, swine and such but this is the first from a reptile that I have heard of. It may take longer to perfect a viral vaccine than it is going to take this to run its course. Spanish Influenza infected 500 million and killed 20 to 50 million. It never has struck again because the survivors are immune after they recover and those that didn't catch it possibly had natural immunity.

    Once they find a way to make a vaccine it will take a long time for enough doses to be made distributed to head of it spreading. Only China might be able to do it with the kind of speed necessary. They have the most casualties and they can do things in ways that people in free states just can't do it. They are building a thousand-bed hospital just for the treatment of people with this disease. They have a start to finish deadline of SIX FREAKING DAYS!!!! You can't even get the paperwork done in the US to propose a construction is less than 6 weeks much less 6 days. They are doing it by putting a truely massive workforce on it working 24 hours a day with anything that they need being a nationwide priority. The construction site looks like an ant bed that you stirred up with a stick! One picture that I saw looked like they had 20 or 30 heavy machinery pieces all working the dirt for the foundation at the same tie.

    This is Chinese New Year over there. Normally nobody is working. They are paying an insane wage of 170+ dollars a day for skilled workers. If they figure out a way to make a vaccine they will go at it with this same insane way and throw money and a massive work force at it.

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/te...il&date=012520&utm_campaign=nl19224157&src=nl
     
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  9. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Old Geezer and TexDanm both of you presented videos and information that I encourage all our forum members to take time to watch .
     
  10. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TaxDanm,

    Am nearly finished with the final draft of the mandatory endangered mosquitoes in non-designated wetlands report. We must staple this to our field equivalent of a M*A*S*H hospital application. I once met the approving official. He's on sick leave now.

    ...

    Soon after this already - started 1,000 bed hospital gets going, there's another 1,300 bed hospital going up.

    ...

    Those of us in the older age bracket here at MSF.COM surely remember that the United States and our colonies/insular possessions such as Panama and the Philippines were known for state-of-the-art / world class public health environments.
     
  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    as far as I can find out this thing has a 9 day incubation period during which time there are no symptoms so the person dosent know they have it and will be infecting others.
    it is thought this virus is very similar to the avian flu in that it started in wild animals, and it will probably last 3 months, 3 weeks coming, 6 weeks of intense activity, and 3 weeks tapering off.
     
  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Good night Pragmatist or good morning, it is coming up to 5 AM and I am still up not just waking up. I seem to prefer a 36 hour day over a 24 hour day and so sleep in the form of a couple of long naps about every 16 hours.

    Anyway, I am not sure that the US any longer has the ability to react to an emergency on a national level. Everything takes months of paperwork now to even discuss the possibility of doing something. Drugs that decades to pass through the required testing and long-term studies of its possible longterm effects. We have a hard time even getting the drugs that are long-accepted made in sufficient quantities to meet the need and demand.

    I have two drugs that I am supposed to get every two weeks. We are talking testosterone and B-12 by the way. I went 6 weeks on the testosterone without any because they said that they couldn't get it. I gave up on the B-12. I have a prescription but the pharmacies have a hard time getting it so the Doctors told me to just come there to get the shot. Now they don't have it most of the time and have just given up on it. If they can't provide these rather simple pharmaceuticals what makes anyone think that they could provide 350 million doses of a vaccine in time to do any good even if they had the formula?

    We can't go to war either because a real war would be lost before we could get the paperwork done to even fight a war and get into a wartime production level. Getting permission to build a factory is a decads long project with all sorts of studies that have to be paid for and done before any real plans can be made and god help you if you find a bone while digging for the foundation. This happened here and all work had to stop while they determine what kind of bone it was and then how it got there. This was evidently an old bone and probably a native American so everything was on hold while it was checked out archeologically. I guess if it had turned out that this was an old Native American burial ground that the stoppage might have been permanent. It was a one-person sort of thing and so after about 9 months, they were allowed to continue.

    If that virus gets a foothold here in one of the larger cities there will be no hope of stopping it or producing a vaccine in time to make much difference. The US could easily have a death count between 4 and 5 MILLION. China could exceed 10 million. World wide it could run above 80 million.

    this sort of disaster will shake us to the core because those figures are based on a 2% casualty rate and the real killer to the world economy will be the cost of trying to treat and care for the 4 BILLION people that would catch it and not die. Many industries will come to a standstill. One of the most frightening things about this flu is that it seems to be getting to the medical people also.

    The thing about virus infections is that they can work in a lot of different ways. The Spanish Influenza was odd in that it was a killer among one group of people and not so much in other groups. It was a killer for young adult healthy men especially but also young women that were healthy. The children and the old and those in poor health had little trouble with it. This puzzled science until relatively recently. It turns out that the Spanish Flu works by turning your own immune system against you and so people that are healthy and have strong immune systems would die before their system could figure out how to fight it.

    This one, if it did come from snakes, might be another strange one and take a while to figure out a treatment schedule and protocol for handling it. think that China is in trouble. I hope that we can react in time to stop it from traveling here. People coming in from places where it is active and spreading need to be quarantined. I don't see us doing that until it is too late.
     
    1. Old Geezer
      If possible, I'd donate 1/2 or more of my blood levels of testosterone (had the blood test in with a bunch of other tests). This is silly, I'm old. I like the muscle-preserving affect; that's OK. However the wandering eye is now an absolute annoyance. And my wife slaps me.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 26, 2020
  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    My thoughts are about the same.

    A national-level emergency can close the country down.

    We've changed from a Federal system of government with a strong national leadership to one now being regional and functional warlords like pre WWII China.

    A perfect example: If B12 has roadblocks to obtain in a currently "peaceful" time near the nation's 4th largest city, ... at the national level during a national emergency ... forget it. I've read that the corona virus vaccine will take a year to develop for delivery. Can 10% of the national population get vaccinated ?

    The only reason I'm not worried about "traditional" warfare is because the US has a few powerful allies. During the Bush 41 mobilization for Iraq service, much of the Virginia Army National Guard was not current on their immunizations ! Not enough colonels checking the readiness indicators ?! The military is also a warlord cartel like the medical doctors and pharma companies.

    Above, Lonewolf wrote of this virus having a 3 month duration. I am prepared to semi-isolate for 2 months. Three months is rough. I've got some work to do on this.
     
  14. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I am supposing Pragmatist you may need another cup of coffee . This approaching virus will not hit a community on a certain day run its course in three months and leave for parts unknown . It will likely be prolonged into years as individual after individual over time gets infected . ----- This however is a slow approaching S.H.T.F. situation as in compared to something like an E.M.P. .This gives people time to look at their prep plan and supply stash and remedy any short falls for this particular S.H.T.F. situation . My personal thought on such a survival plan should involve a rural property and a milk producing animal .
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    those that get the virus and live will build up immunity to it, eventually there will be no one to infect as they have all had the disease. obviously that will take time, how long is anyone's guess.
     
    1. Old Geezer
      Hope you're right about this flu playing-out quickly. Even as much as I would like to see bat-sh## crazy panic in U.S. urban areas, the viral beast would make it into our Heartland and hurt innocent people.
       
      Old Geezer, Jan 26, 2020
  16. Pragmatist

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    Good afternoon Poltiregist,

    Coffee supplies: well over 5 years at a max consumption.

    Pharma: like the siege of Stalingrad. Even with MD contacts, etc, they also have problems with getting the needed stuff.

    My 2 months isolation here is OK. Later, mail at my area's rural post office must have retrieval arrangements. A couple of other matters similar to mail/small packages require arrangements. Difficult with the uncertainties.

    My rural acreage here is in the corridor subject to mandatory evacuation by the authorities. Many uncertainties.

    In 3 months it's warm here and any human or animal that's corona virus infected means the mosquitoes are ready for mischief.
     
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  17. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    This is basically what happened with the Spanish Influenza and it is suspected that the Black death plagues killed and then petered out as there were too few people left that didn't have an immunity to it to allow it to spread anymore. Even diseases like smallpox lost much its ability to kill until the Europeans introduced it into new groups of people that had never been exposed to it. MY Mother's entire family had smallpox and were quarantined for 6 weeks and all survived with little problem and few scars.

    We have had a hundred years now to get soft and think that we were not under the gun anymore. I fear that death has returned to walk among us again. we have defeated so many of the old killers of the past that I think most people these days have no understanding of the true frailty of human life.

    My generation was the last to live with it. We ALL wear scars on our shoulders from Smallpox vaccinations. I remember polio vaccines when it was the new miracle cure and had kids in my classes that had to wear braces from the damage of it. Before WW2 yellow fever killed hundreds of thousands of children. My Mother lost a sister to it. At one time syphilis was a leading cause of death among adult males. Now kids don't even have childhood diseases like measles, mumps, whooping cough. I don't think that people now will deal with such things as well as people did that were raised with the possibility of this sort of thing hanging over them. I hope that with all of our vaccines that we now don't find that they have weakened us even as they protected us from individual ailments.
     
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  18. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  19. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I have heard some viruses will remain alive on a human corpse for many years after death and ready to climb out and start again its rampage . One of the reasons I avoid going into a cave near my retreat with human bones in it . Neighbors claim the skeleton is from a Native American . I am not so sure but do reasonably believe it is from a child around ten or twelve years old judging by the size and condition of the teeth in the skull . All the teeth are in good shape .
     
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  20. Snyper

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    It came from a source that depends on web traffic to make money, not necessarily because they are credible, but because they know what to say to attract viewers.
     
  21. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Most of the deaths from the current virus have been older people with other health issues.
     
  22. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    most diseases cannot live for more than 24-48 hours outside of a living host, I think the exceptions are the Aids virus and maybe Ebola, the only way anyone gets a disease from a corpse is when handling a corpse, the general public does not handle corpses.
     
  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    That is generally the way most flu epidemics go and are hardest on the people with weak or compromised immune systems. The Spanish Influenza was a different thing and instead killed the young adults more often than the old or very young. It took them decades before they understood why.
     
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  24. F22 Simpilot

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    I heard on the news that infants as well as adults have been caught up in this.
     
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  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    infants and the elderly will be the most vulnerable.
     
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  26. F22 Simpilot

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    I've also heard it will be at least a year before there's a vaccine.
     
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  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's sounds about right, if not longer.
     
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  28. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning F22,

    You heard correctly.

    It's mentioned somewhere on the CDC website.

    Now add the delivery time for the jab into the citizen's arm plus ~ month for the vaccine to work through the body, especially for us senior citizens.
     
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  29. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    One case scenario for a prepper is about two years of isolation until a vaccine is available , if there is no problem developing the vaccine . Worst case scenario the virus that came from a monkey AIDS , the scientists never have been able to develop a vaccine . A snake virus could prove just as elusive . It is still too early to be able to tell what the recovery percentage of infected individuals will be as this virus is just settling in to its new human home and will likely dig in and strengthen its position . I don't know anymore than anyone else on this issue and can not see into the future but as a prepper I plan for the worst in all case scenarios .
     
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  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    either a vaccine will be developed in time, if not those most at risk will get infected and die, those with better immune systems will recover, that should cut the populations down to a manageable level, there are too many humans on the planet anyway so maybe this is mother nature's way of balancing the numbers.
    you can bet that the death rates from this will go up from the current 100 or so.
     
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  31. Snyper

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  32. F22 Simpilot

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    Yeah, I heard the incubation period was like 8 days.
     
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  33. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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    I think you may be correct here about corpses. For some reason smallpox comes to mind as still being found on corpses but I may have that incorrect.

    Thanks,
    Watcherchris

    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  34. Pragmatist

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    Good morning all,

    https://www.who.int/diseasecontrol_emergencies/guidelines/risks/en/

    The above link is a good intro to corpses and disease focused to workers dealing with corpses.

    NOTE: No need to disinfect bodies before burial. (except in cases of cholera).

    Body bags are required. Here in a maritime area, there are also the "double wide" body bags for events like drownings when corpse swells up.

    I have some related material here and will look for it later if I can adjust plans not to read more scare stories on the corona virus.

    Foot Note near Head Stone: If mass graves are not appropriate; ... more supply of work gloves and tape on hands. I'm already tired just thinking about it.


    Prep,prep, prep
    and
    factor in safety
     
  35. watcherchris

    watcherchris Master Survivalist
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