Nz Volcano Erupts

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Pragmatist, Dec 9, 2019.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50708727


    Good morning all,

    Per ...

    There was some loss of life. Article says one. Shortwave radio mentioned 5.

    Article mentions an expression used by those with mental impairments or just from the sheltered suburbs of life: "It was still safe-ish".

    UA Prof Jan Lindsay gave clear explanation: "alert level", "heightened level".

    What was unclear to me ... if island privately owned and tours private businesses, what was the NZ Defense Force rescue efforts for ? No private emergency responder teams in case of eruptions ?
     
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  2. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Think of it as paramedic who came to your home when you call them due to medical emergency. Furthermore the owner of that island is most likely also a tax payer
     
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  3. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If I own a big building and it catches on fire the local fire department will be the responding party. Imagine the cost if each homeowner had to provide for their own fire department. There are lots of things that are government handles of its people in mass rather than them having to deal with it individually. I bet that the owners of the island don't have a standing army to protect it from invasion either. This isn't a gift that the government is giving its people. It is a service that is paid for by the people and the government is just the one that oversees its implementation.

    there were no doubt private individuals that offered assistance to their neighbors but the BIG help needs to come from the government. When we get hit by a hurricane we handle the immediate short term evacuation mostly by volunteers assisting but we don't have the resources to house them for long without help. Usually, the government shows up about three days later.
     
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  4. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon TexDanm and Varuna,

    Wasn't thinking at all of the island owner having a fleet - or even 1 - fire boat on standby. I am still "unsettled" that an associate Professor at Auckland had access to alerts from the area instruments and the island owner (and the tourist companies) had no access to the sensing instruments' reports - or just neglected the alerts for the immediately-pending tourist revenue.

    Private businesses are usually not allowed armies/paramilitaries but some can surely have security departments tailored to the business venture.

    The private citizen volunteers are a little different...I'm thinking of the Cajun Navy and area hurricane responders as per your mention above. Private citizens are not funded for rapid responses as a self-sustaining group. Businesses can be. It's a big difference.

    Meanwhile, nearby Auckland we had loss of life and a large expense for the NZ Defense Force...and an Auckland University faculty member knew of the alerts.
     
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  5. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    All remote sensing are typically route their feed to a centralized command center, and not to any local who happen to inhabit the locality. Furthermore it suppose to be the job of the gov't who receive those data feed to properly interpret, making assessment, and issue warning or advisory when needed. Even if the local do have access to the spectrometer, seismograph, and live video feed that still require specialized training to interpret all those data.

    Example of seismograph feed of Mt Rinjani

    db3e6b331c7e6e7ec1c28b27ffba9f60.png

    Example of Volcanic Hazard Map of Mt Rinjani

    db3e6b331c7e6e7ec1c28b27ffba9f60.jpeg

    As you can see reading & interpreting all those require training & practice.

    However in this White Island eruption case, the management of that resort just being ignorant thus peoples dead as a result
     
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  6. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Varuna,

    You've got good maps and proper use of cartographic conventions. We used to have this but much has changed.

    I understand your above narrative about feeds routed to central government centers with skill required to interpret.

    I believe the US remote sensing instrument programs can be accessed, with prior arrangements, by private sector industry such as oil companies and airlines. We also have private sector owned and operated remote sensor programs. Believe a good example is the US agriculture "industry". Companies like Cargill and ConAgra are well versed in weather reports.
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    there were warnings that the volcano was about to erupt, over a month in advance.
    tourist company must bear some responsibility for ignoring the warnings.
     
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  8. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    One of the problem with tourism industry everywhere is they tend to be ignorant about risk of natural disaster. Case example, when I show my Volcanic Hazard Map to a local resort owner, he claim the local gov't has never provide them to any of that information and local tourism business also doesn't have anyone who have the slightest clue of volcanology or geology. They believe that their knowledge of local environment is more than enough and their time & investment is best utilized in dealing with logistic, and marketing related matters.
     
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  9. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Varuna,

    If the local government has - and enforces - liability laws regarding the business ... such as the safety of hotel guests ... the business owner need not know too much about geology. The liability insurance would be much more expensive until the risks were reduced.

    With additional costs going to the insurance company, the policy buyer would be learning all about geology and volcanoes - and ask you for a source to get the needed maps !
     
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  10. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    BTW does anyone have access to this White Island volcano map? Particularly the lava flow estimation, volcanic exclusion zone, etc? :confused: I'm not familiar with any NZ gov't agency, so I don't know where to look for such map :(
     
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  11. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    My uncle was a hero during his service, WWII, European Theater, made it through all manner of horror including Battle of the Bulge. His company commander (one of several, they were getting slaughtered) gave him an order to do something that would have surely gotten him killed. He said, "No." Real heroes, sane people, don't put their hind-ends at risk when the odds are at level "grim".

    "Live to fight another day" and all that.

    Something is dangerous. OK, so then stay away from it. If somebody calls you a coward, tell them to go "git-er-done".

    People who seek out danger fall into several categories, lemmings, trying to prove their manhood, stupid, oblivious to the world, the suicidal, ... .

    But again, true heroes know when to back off, they know the value of their own selves. Rationality wins battles. Fools make for cannon fodder alone.

    Volcanoes vs. humans; volcano wins.
     
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  12. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    You forgot to add CURIOSITY. And that same curiosity is also what driven our scientific understanding. For example I'm looking forward going here (video below), and checking what under the wave after the flank collapse that trigger tsunami December last year (2018). Sadly its quite expensive overall (transportation, boat charter, man power, equipment, logistic), and I currently don't have the money to do so :(

     
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  13. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Curiosity killed the cat.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Volcano tourist has his eyes opened.

    64c7c8c5bbd6c1e6d82700d1a929a95d.jpeg
     
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  15. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Lost a scientist studying Mt. Saint Helen when it blew.
     
  16. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Seems to me such an warning system is in full effect on the Big Island of Hawaii as they have frequent volcano eruptions as well as the accompanying seismic readings.

    Perhaps the New Zealanders should touch bases with the Hawaiians or the Japanese.

    My non Ishmaelite .02,

    Watcherchris
     
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