Question About 4wd'ing - Putting Water In Tyres

Discussion in 'Other Hobbies, Jobs, or Pastime' started by Blitz, Jan 17, 2020.

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  1. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Hi all,

    As a lot of you probably know, I'm an avid 4WDer.

    I was talking to someone I recently met, who said they put a mixture of air and water in their tyres for better traction, as well as lowering tyre pressures (which is what you would normally do - without the water in the tyres).

    I've never heard of this before and am wondering if it's (a) feasible (b) would actually improve traction (c) would cause any damage to tyres and (d) how you would actually do it?

    Has anyone ever experienced this technique before?

    I googled but nothing came up.

    The person I spoke to said 4WD clubs frowned upon the technique. I don't know if that's because as a club they wouldn't even entertain such an idea, or if there's a reason ie safety or damage to tyres. Given tyres are so expensive these days (mine were nearly $3000) I'm not sure this sort of technique would be such a great idea, but I'm curious.
     
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  2. Brownbear

    Brownbear Master Survivalist
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    I've never heard of this before. I wonder if it would negatively affect road handling as it would give an unbalanced weight at lower speeds?
     
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  3. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    I have no idea. I don't think it would be very good to drive on once you got off the forest tracks and hit the bitumen. I certainly wouldn't fancy doing 100kph on tyres half filled with water (let alone 80 or 60 for that matter).

    And what on earth would it do to the tyres? And how would you get the water out?

    I sent the bloke a message and asked him how on earth you fill tyres with water. This was his reply (he advocates for only filling the back tyres with water and air to give more traction):

    "when you let your back tyres down make sure your valve is at the top, unscrew valve slide garden hose over valve, make sure you unscrew hose nozzle first hold it on tight turn tap on half fill tyre then pump air in to the pressure you want".
     
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  4. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    The person you spoke of is right to frowned upon such technique. If you need traction you either adding fixed weight or if you were stuck in the mud use wooden planks tied to the tire's.

    Water vapor inside the tire is bad for so many reason, adding fluid water into it will only make thing worse. In fact my personal practice is to suck all the air (including any water vapor) and re-pressurized using nitrogen, which is similar practice to that in aviation.
     
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  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    don't see much 4wd being done once the filling stations are closed.
     
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  6. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Unfortunately for you, not everyone living in Doomy-Gloomy such as you do. And most people (including myself) have more optimistic world view compare to those of you guys from Anglophone countries. Moreover I'm one of those folk whose been there, done that for real, while a lot of doomsayer on the internet forums haven't been there for real (merely theoretical)
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    good luck with that.
    prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
    and yes, I've done it for real too, so I know what I'm talking about.
     
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  8. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Thanks varuna. I can't see how it can possibly be good in any circumstances.

    Never heard of tying wooden planks to the tyres I have to say. :confused:
     
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  9. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Well, that depends how much diesel you've stocked up ... :p
     
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  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    petrol not diesel in my case.
    no point in stocking fuel i'm not going anywhere.
    my location IS my bug out location.
     
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  11. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    If anything happens where I am and I can't stay for whatever reason, I'll have enough diesel to go to another remote bush location.
     
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  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I left a city 20 years ago, I now live in a remote rural location, according to most British preppers I have already bugged out, I have about 6 locations I can retreat to if necessary but they would only be temporary relocations. I can access these on foot as they are all off road.
     
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  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    https://gotreads.com/


    Good morning Blitz,

    I'm guessing that Varuna meant to use a different word. Regardless, his English is better than many faculty members at our famous institutes of lower education.

    Properly spaced planks or boards in front of and behind tires can assist getting vehicle out of the mud.

    Above link is a commercial version of the principle.

    There are other materials used and longer lengths for sale at the off-road stores here.

    Of course everything takes space to carry.
     
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  14. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist and Dale,

    Eureka ! I have found it ! - - - Although I wasn't looking for it; was next to something I was looking for needed at my breakfast meeting I'm running late to.

    Next to me is:

    FM 20-22, Vehicle Recovery Operations, HQ, Dept of the Army, 1962, a time when Field Manuals of only 160 pages had more information - and pictures - than the new, even more improved trash.

    My 2 brothers in arms from same frat house will surely appreciate seeing FM 20-22 on a MSF.COM thread.
     
  15. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Something like this, albeit this particular product use metal instead of wood



    Disclaimer : I drive Daihatsu Feroza / Rocky for over 20 years (just sold it few months ago), and even when driving in muddy terrain (as in mud from last night mudslide with over 20m high cliff on the side) I rarely need 4WD. Driving off-road is more about having the "feel" of the ground and manual traction control (driving 3 pedals), along with payload weight distribution.

    BTW might wanna try filling in your tire's with nitrogen rather than air. But also make sure your not just pumping nitrogen into the tire, but also sucking out the existing air and any water vapor along with it (this is fully computerized process)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I've seen sand ladders used, you put them under the tyres to give traction, some tie them onto the vehicle with cord so that you don't have to go back for them once you'r on firmer ground.
    I use bits of old carpet to get out of mud, same principle.
     
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  17. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    How interesting! I have never seen them before. They're very similar to Maxtrax, but better in the sense that you wouldn't have to keep getting out of the vehicle. Plus they're more compact. Would definitely be a good bit of kit to keep in the back in case of getting severely bogged. I like the extender bars. Very expensive though.
     
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  18. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Blitz, I know here that heavy equipment uses to use a lot chloride as weight in the tires. as the tire is spinning centrifugal force actually causes the weight to go where it's needed to keep things balanced. The chloride eats out the rims after years it it got moisture in it. Here is a link that goes in to it some in regards to farm equipment. I've never heard of doing it off road, like you say we always just aired down to a low PSI to allow more of the tire in contact with the ground to better disperse weight. This is also why may military vechicles have centralized air system to allow them to air up and down their tires depending on the terrain. I do believe that back in the day arctic exploration teams would fill their tires with fuel to use the strorage space and I believe it was to help with buoyancy in bogs or possible water crossings. I know I used to read that the Rokon motorbikes often found in prepper forums were to allow you to fill their big oversized tires with fuel also.

    Filling a tire with water, unless the rim is made from something like aluminum I'd worry about it rusting the rim or if your in a cold climate it might freeze. Not sure whether it gains you any additional buoyancy in swamp or marsh area over a very low pressured tire. Unless somehow it lets you keep pressure up high enough to where you don't worry about breaking a bead but if your doing a lot of off road are you running bead lock wheels?
     
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  19. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    Thanks! What an interesting article! I had no idea ...

    Beadlock wheels are illegal in Aus. If necessary, will reduce psi to around 15-16psi without tyre coming off the bead. In the past have run them to around 10-12psi and never had a tyre come off. Depends on tyres though. I'm on my second set of Goodyear Duratrac tyres, which are phenomenal I have to say. They're really expensive though, hence I wouldn't be too keen on doing anything that would damage the rims or tyres.



     
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  20. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Liquids are sometimes used in tractor tires to add weight and gain traction, but I've never heard of them being used in any vehicle that might be driven at higher speeds.
     
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  21. Blitz

    Blitz Master Survivalist
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    I didn't even know it was used in tractor tyres, so I've learnt something.
    I can't see that it would be a safe practice to use at high speeds myself. Even if it was effective, what do you do once you get back onto the black stuff? Usually you just air up, but you'd have to remove all the water. I would have thought anyway. Doesn't seem worth it to me, when there's other alternatives to get better traction.
     
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