Questions on ethics and morals?

Discussion in 'Mental Preparedness' started by ProNine, May 23, 2016.

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  1. ProNine

    ProNine Member
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    Ok, so this might come of as a bit of a touchy subject, however, I believe it would be quite entertaining and would open up a good discussion. In our day to day life, we are faced with points where we have to make decisions that might be considered to some unethical or morally wrong. Some things are deemed straight off wrong such as theft and harming others. However, if a disaster was to break out indefinitely, how do you believe your ethics and morals will change and how easy will it be for you to change them. Personally, I am a person who tries not to harm anyone and follow the rules when necessary. However, I do recognize that at some times, it might be a necessity to break off and do what is usually not meant to be done. Despite that, when such a scenario actually arises, I might not be able to actually follow through with what I think. So, what about you?
     
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    1. Ulrich Schliz
      In my opinion the best way to surviv and - over all - save spme moral standart is to be organized in a group. Man by nature id a collective being. He dies separated from the "pack". He has this in common with the wolf. In ston agw society , to be expelled fron the tribe, was (and is)nearly equal to a death sentence. Therefore, one has to look for a group.
       
      Ulrich Schliz, Aug 17, 2017
  2. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    I mind my own business and treat others as I would be treated!
    I am inclined to stay within the law etc etc !
    BUT!
    I am experienced in the world !
    Caution is the word!
    I trust the hairs on the back of my neck far more than anyones words!
    When it all go's arse up I am quite prepared to do whatever needs to be done, whenever it needs to be done!
    No hesitation at all, maybe not even break my stride, and no guilt! just do it and move on!
     
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  3. Corzhens

    Corzhens Master Survivalist
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    I have seen disaster movies from the Titanic to San Andreas. The films depicted the paradigm shift of people who were kind and tame but turned unruly when disaster strikes. Although not completely but majority of the people has the mentality of save yourself or me first. Maybe it is human nature to prioritize one's survival over the others.

    As for me, it is difficult to say what I would do but definitely I would put myself and my family on top of the list. Like scavenging for food. I will only share if there is an excess otherwise I would reserve all the food for my family. And if I am alone in the disaster then I would be thinking of myself first over the others although I'm sure my compassion will still be there if given time to stabilize my mental condition. When disaster strikes, I would lose my mental stability but it will be back after some hours.
     
  4. Endure

    Endure Expert Member
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    I really can't tell until all my moral integrity is put into a test. I'm pretty much have a "black and white" perception regarding morality, there is no place for "It depends" or "but maybes" within my point of view. If I ever break any ethical principle, Then I'll be an inmoral person, regardless of circumstances. If you desire to see "moral bending" in action, I suggest to look for debates related to capital punishment, there is not other topic more suitable than that to breakdown people's moral principles.
     
  5. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Endure
    I presume you have led a sheltered life and have not yet been tested!
    Very little in this world is black or white! there is mostly varying shades of grey!

    Here is a simple question with different answers in different situations!
    DO YOU STEAL TO FEED YOUR CHILDREN?
    In a world where you can buy stuff to feed them and you have money the answer should be NO!
    If you have no money or there is none for sale ! Do your children go hungry or do you steal and feed them stolen food?
    Most morals are for fairweather sailing! when the storm thunders and the seas boil morals get lost!
     
  6. terryse

    terryse Member
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    I grew up believing the real world is more hostile than friendly, more unpredictable than predictable, and problems abound in every corner. I also believe that the entirety of your value system, belief system, principles, priorities, and lifestyle originated in your heart and mind and not from anywhere else . If a disaster breaks out, it would probably mean i would be wiser than I were before in securing food or making my family safe, at least a little bit confident and bold .
     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I know that people are no damn good, in a serious event they will steal the shirt of your back and the food from out of your mouth.
    I will do whatever it takes to survive, morals or ethics don't come into it, only survival does.
    in a catastrophe it will be WROL(without rule of law) anyway.
     
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  8. Kev Brown

    Kev Brown Active Member
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    I think a ot depends on the overall feeling of community. Disasters hit tropical locations regularly and there is no breakdown of moral codes. When Japan was hit with a tsunami, there were no reports of social unrest and no feeling that the people were losing their humanity towards each other, if anything the opposite happened.
    I think what most of us are focused on is the scenario of being in a city location that has a large mix of people from different socio-economic classes. Here it's clear that morals would go out of the window pretty quickly as there wouldn't be enough community between the people to allow them to band together to overcome adversity. The feeling of individuality makes morals completely changeable from person to person. Though none of us would really know what we would do in the face of an indefinate disaster, it is clear, however, that the social behaviour of any survivng group would become markedly changed as the hardships progressed.
     
  9. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    trust just one wrong person and you will fail.
     
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  10. ProNine

    ProNine Member
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    I'm glad to see this thread actually got quite a bit of responses. I believe, after reading all the posts, that the best course of action would be to prioritise oneself over everything else and try to proceed with caution whenever possible. That's why I suppose hiding your reosurces and being sly and sneaky is an important way of maintaining a leverage over everyone else. As for
    @Kev Brown , I don't believe that scenario applies as this is an event that is pretty common in Japan which is why they deal with it the way they do. To them, they are taught how to deal with it and how it all must be done.
     
  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    short term events will be treated differently than long term events.
    if there is even a remote chance of getting back to "normal" this will temper peoples actions for fear of the possible repercussions.
     
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  12. Lisa Davis

    Lisa Davis Active Member
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    Morals go out the window for many people when they are faced with danger, panic, fear, and situations they are unfamiliar with. The fact of the matter is that most of us have never actually been truly HUNGRY in our lives, especially not in the sense of not knowing where your next meal is coming from. When this kind of situation is faced by people for the first time, it can be shocking and people that are unprepared especially, can forget about things like "thou shall not steal" or "thou shall not kill." I am not saying that I am above killing or stealing to survive, because I am not. However, I am more prepared than the average person to handle a disaster, so I am less likely to have to resort to those methods. Also, even when supplies and such run out, I also have skills that will continue to help me survive a disaster/emergency situation. We have to realize that some of our younger generations in particular are fairly spoiled though and not used to any sort of discomfort. A great deal of them do not possess the skills to start a fire, let alone hunt for their own food. It is just not something that many people in academia think is important for everyone to learn.
     
  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there are many people who will fail in a survival situation, because they have never had to face it before and just don't give it a thought in their everyday lives.
    the ones who will survive are the ones that can adapt to the new "normal".
     
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  14. Tom Williams

    Tom Williams Moderator Staff Member
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    Right now i will help anyone i can when the world goes bad and its time to survive as best you can i will do what is needed to keep mine alive in plain words DONT COME HERE
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    prepare or die, that's my opinion, if someone cant be bothered to prepare they are on their own post event, my only duty is to ensure my family survive, and that is all.
     
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  16. Lisa

    Lisa Active Member
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    I would like to think that I could behave ethically in a survival situation but if it came down to protecting the people I love I think morals would go out of the window.
     
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  17. Kev Brown

    Kev Brown Active Member
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    I understand you've posted a hypothetical question but maybe you should illustrate it a bit more with regards to the regions the disaster would hit. While I agree with the majority of what you say it's clear that there wouldn't be a universal response to the disaster. Even if it meant death not everyone faces up to the reality in the same way. You also mentioned that the disaster would be indefinite. I can only think you are imagining something that would result in a mad max type of reality, again it's difficult to know what would happen exactly but be smart and protect yourself as much as possible.
     
  18. John Snort

    John Snort Well-Known Member
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    There are lines one must never cross. Others may have no qualms crossing them but for me there are things wouldn't do. Steal, lie or kill someone you deem a threat, that I can do.

    But this?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...6/What-could-we-eat-but-our-dead-friends.html
    I'd rather starve . . .
     
  19. dogs of amf

    dogs of amf New Member
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    Really? Doesn't seem so terrible. It's fairly sustaining and (I'm told) tastes decent with some cooking.
     
  20. TJames13

    TJames13 New Member
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    I think in a survival situation I would do everything possible to protect my family, myself and my supplies. This being said I would also do everything possible to avoid conflict and stay off the radar . As much as I wish I could keep all my supplies at my home and stay here in the case of an emergency there are far too many people near me who are going to become desperate in a few short days. My close proximity to a grocery store, while convenient now will be a liability in an emergency situation as violence will certainly break out there as supplies dwindle. Basically I guess what it boils down to is I don't want to hurt or kill another person but I will not hesitate if I feel like they pose a danger to my family or myself or the supplies I have that will keep us alive.
     
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  21. PracticalToby

    PracticalToby Member
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    None of us knows how we will react until the situation arises. We are certainly programmed to survive and to ensure the survival of our offspring. I dare say there will be situations where mortal conflict will be inevitable, but I suspect that if enough far-sighted people survive in any one area, they will realise that co-operation is probably the best way to go.
     
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  22. richj8am30

    richj8am30 Member
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    In many ways, I believe that are own morals may be one of the many hindrances that will cause a lot of us to perish in a catastrophic event. We have to understand that wars and dire situations happened even the books of some of our most famed religions. There is nothing wrong with protecting yourself. Prepare yourself mentally by deprogramming your mind of all of the thought processes that might cause you to fail in the wake of a disaster. Choose life and if you can figure out a way that you will be able to survive passively, then by all means proceed with that method. Just do not go into this thing with thoughts that may screw you over in the long run. Maintain an open mind, you need a survival instinct to beat whatever is ahead of you.
     
  23. explorerx7

    explorerx7 Expert Member
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    It's a feature of human beings to seek to help each other in adverse and life threatening situations. In many instances, people go to the extreme to preserve the life of others who may be in distress. Sometimes the person who is helping end up being injured or losing their own life. There may be a minority who will stand by and do nothing and there are others who will not help because they may become overwhelmed part with fear but for the most part there will always be an hero. That's why there are some many people that have been receiving honors for bravery so frequently.
     
  24. HealthandVitality

    HealthandVitality New Member
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    If you are to survive in this world, you need to ask the Lions or any other animal for that matter how to go about it. I mentioned Lions as they are considered the Kings of the jungle. Animals always follows their instincts, they do not sit down to discus what the best course of action is when danger is approaching or even when they are out hunting. We humans need to pick a leaf from their book because sometimes our instincts are the best wisdom givers. If am ever face with deciding between my ethics and morals, my gut instincts will provide the answer.
     
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  25. Para173

    Para173 Well-Known Member
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    Anything that you do - including nothing at all - can get you killed when you are in a survival situation. Understand that when you are in a survival situation the concept of morals becomes a distant theory or a distant luxury for when times are better. The farther we progress through time, the further away we get from the basic concepts of honor, morality and good character. Take a long and hard look at Hillary Clinton. A few years ago she would NEVER have even been considered as being eligible for running for the presidency because of all her transgressions. Back in the day, the Democrats themselves would have banned her from running as their party's candidate because of all the laws that she's broken and the scandals associated with her. Most people in a survival situation will try to do what they think is right at the time that different events happen in front of them. That doesn't mean that 100% of the people will do what is right for everybody. It means that people will do what is right based upon what they think is right for them. So keep in mind that the idea of right and wrong is relative to observer or victim. In other words, you can't please everybody all the time.
     
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  26. Lee CT NE

    Lee CT NE Well-Known Member
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    It's the old ant and grasshopper scenario. If you're the ant, you're prepared. Grasshoppers in this scenario are not.

    I cannot nor will I sacrifice the safety and/or survival of my loved ones to help an unprepared - often ungreatful - person. This includes food, shelter, and protection. I've personally sounded the mantra to stay prepared and informed to everyone that I have met. Most ignore me. When disaster hits, they will have to face their own shortcomings.
     
  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I will do whatever it takes to survive.......period.
     
  28. LilSoldierGirl

    LilSoldierGirl Well-Known Member
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    you may be surprised how quickly a 'normal' person can turn savage. I know of two diggers who were seen kicking the shit out of an unarmed Timorese civilian in Dili. It was all overlooked because they had found human ears in the guy's pocket. The ROE can be quickly discarded given the circumstances, for soldiers and civilians.
     
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Expert Member
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    I kind of don't exist. I have thoughts and make up stories in my head and remember stories told to me when not around family. But I don't know what "me" means.

    The men in my family on my dad's side, my dad included, were felons, ran gambling and worked for gambling businesses (illegal). They were really nice though and minded their own business, for the most part. I had one uncle who worked for himself, rarely for anyone else -- he didn't hurt people, he'd take their money of course, but not their lives (always had "an angle" on something or other). I had another uncle who did messed up stuff -- but I'd like to think much of it was vigilante stuff. I think that all the men they hurt or killed deserved it. I know for an absolute fact that they were sensitive about evil people who hurt other people for personal gain or out of sadism. They had a moral code that is for certain. Temper-wise, my dad would just "lose it"; he wasn't the premeditated sort at all -- same for my mom's dad. That one uncle was made a killer in war. He wouldn't have been like he was, were it not for being in the worst hellish part of war one can imagine (Battle of the Bulge included). He was very good to me. He was a good person at heart.

    Me, I don't much care. I guy tried to get into our house one night and I didn't shoot him. My wife thought I was going to -- I'd lost my temper only minutes before that guy came to our door. He gave a false reason to get in. I talked to him and told him how things were going to go. He then got into his "disabled" car, the car that had "broken down", and drove off. What my wife saw was me furious, just busted a radio on the floor, standing there with a shotgun getting ready to kill this big fellow. She'd seen me kill things and just figured I was going to do this fellow. Not true. Mainly, he annoyed me; I had no fear of him. Had he busted through the door, I would have simply killed him automatically. Many people are without meaning to me -- they just exist, maybe like a cartoon gone "real".

    When it comes to my family, I can get very, very irrational, but that is true of everyone. I hope God never puts me into a situation where I'm not helping others. I want God to put boundaries on me. I could turn into something bad, so I want God to fence me in. I want God to use me because I'm kind of empty of purpose, myself. I'm old and my skeleton is falling apart, I'd put money on my heart being compromised, so I'll be finished with this place in the not too distant future -- going to go be with my ancestors. Good.
     
  30. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member
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    Quite simple: the best way to get away from people and the violence they bring is to find a lake with a remote shoreline, build a solar powered boat that can comfortably carry the people you are closest to plus dry food, fishing gear (legal and otherwise), a 22 cal rifle, and a water purification system. Other stuff too but you get the drift. That is what I have and use it. The solar stuff is available from sunsolutionssa.com and they can help with affordable DIY boat building too.
     
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  31. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    I think the best way in which I can reply to this is to post a video. This video is based on a true event, & I think it shows how these morals we have need to work in a survival situation where there is a clear & present danger.
    Keith.
     
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  32. PriscillaKing

    PriscillaKing Active Member
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    One never knows. Actually a group can survive longer together than apart--if members of the group can agree to function as a group, and if there are resources for all of them.

    I think I'd at least try to form alliances. Worked for my extended family's elders in the Great Depression; might work for us now.

    Some people actually don't realize...coyotes aren't very big, strong, smart, or brave individually, but they can outsmart bigger, stronger, smarter, and braver animals by hunting in packs.

    My social cats have vestigial coyote-type instincts (they often hunt in teams). Some humans seem to lack those instincts.
     
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    depends on the people in the group really, if they've only come together following a catastrophe, and only because they cant survive alone, then I don't rate their chances of survival.
    any group is only as good as the sum of its parts.
    a group of 5 or 10 needs 5times or 10 times the amount of food as 1, they make 5 or 10X the amount of waste, and more than 5 or 10X the noise, and make 5 or 10 X the tracks coming AND going.
     
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  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    you can forget about ethics and morals when people's wives and children are starving, nothing will matter then but feeding a screaming starving child and any rules and laws will go straight out the window.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
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  35. PriscillaKing

    PriscillaKing Active Member
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    In a life or death situation, failing to protect your children is immoral.
     
  36. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    in a shtf situation that is the job of the parent and only the parent.
    I cant be responsible for all the unprepared people of this country.
     
  37. jeager

    jeager Expert Member
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    In general when things are at the worse, humans are at their best.

    Those that quickly turn savages, immoral, unethical, were that in the first place.
    Perhaps those types were able to hide such behavior in normal social circumstances.
    It could be that those unfortunates simply conformed to social norms
    to avoid consequences of unacceptable behavior.
    That's a heady question best left to social scientists.
    Personally I tend to be a loner.
    I have a very few close friends and I say that with limitations.
    Family is family and are in my closest interaction.
    NO ONE acts exactly the same in all social interactions.
    People in church act like church people act.
    In a shtf those same people could slit your throat for a sandwich.
    It's best to deduce upon behavior.
    In trying circumstances, perhaps a crisis of some sort, I'd give zero "trust"
    to strangers.
    Difficult times require difficult decisions.
    Beware of the group mentality.
    In general humans behave differently in a group than on an individual basis.
    In earning my Human Resources degree from Geneva University we studied
    quite a bit about human interactions under varying circumstances.
    "Mob mentality, group think", and more.
    Over 2 decades in police work taught me a lot about human behavior.
    More than my formal education.
    I've seen criminals with prison records commit heroic acts when police officers
    stood frozen.
    We had a bit of a race riot, about 500 + people throwing rocks and bottles
    at cops and destroying police cars.
    I sent my officers away and walked into the crowd and within minutes they
    simply melted away.
    No target for them to react too any longer.
    An infamous incident on a bridge in a large city is notable.
    A man stopped on the bridge, pulled a woman out of her care and began
    beating her.
    NO ONE got outside a car to help her.
    The bad guy beat her into helplessness, then threw her off the bridge.
    She died.
    NO ONE helped her.
    Incredible.
    If just ONE person tried to help her many others likely would have joined
    in a rescue.
    A black man with a criminal record that I was decent too and helped out of
    a minor scrape rescued me from a crowd of people with malevolent intent.
    Go figger.
    It pays to be fair and treat people as good as they will let you.
    That's my mantra anyway.
    In spite of being badly injured many times, stolen from, cheated, I have Zero resentments or ill will for any person, place, or thing.
    Nothing is going to live rent free in my mind.
     
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  38. JMS

    JMS Member
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    "If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs...."

    This is what we will have to do. To keep our wits and morals about us. There will be times when we have to do something that goes against our beliefs. Those times are times that we will have to be strong and do what we think is right at the time. People do change when disaster strikes. We can become selfish and adopt the survival attitude. That we must survive no matter what. That means not giving a thought to how we treat others if need be. Still, I hope that most survivors remember the basic human morals and keep a bit of compassion about them.
     
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  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    survival is paramount about surviving, in a global or even a national catastrophe unprepared people will bring you down.
    that's the mistake a lot of newbies make, thinking that the "gimmie" brigade have some kind of define right to survive-probably on your supplies! survival is for those who plan and prepare not for people who spend all their money on foreign vacations and the latest gadget and then when some catastrophe happens they expect other people to feed them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  40. jeager

    jeager Expert Member
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    Screw the "gimmie" crowd.

    "God helps them who help themselves."
    "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for life."
    That said the elderly, crippled, handicapped, need and should get help if possible.
    My personal mantra.
    I COME FIRST.
    With me and my skills, others without skills are lost.
    Selfish?
    I think not.
     
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  41. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    others without skills or knowledge wont last long once the trucks stop rolling.
     
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  42. jeager

    jeager Expert Member
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    Right on.

    So it goes.
    The Darwin affect.
    yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.
     
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  43. JMS

    JMS Member
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    Yeah its a shame. Already we can see it in the world today. There is enough food to feed the world but half of it is starving. We don't know how to share. Those takers don't know how to give. I've always been a giver but I've learned. I was married to an Egyptian and living in Egypt. We divorced and I bought a house and rented it out. So I had the rent money to live on every month. My ex-husband thought would turn up every month with a hard luck story and I would hand money over. Then I would end up having to go without something. In the end, I told him tough, he had to go out and find his own money and not keep taking mine. When he ever had anything, he never shared it with me. So I learned that needs mean to take care of yourself first. Then share surplus.
     
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  44. jeager

    jeager Expert Member
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    U.S. food aid world wide.
    We taxpayers fund billions in food aid world wide.
    We give aplenty.
    Well, those of us that actually have jobs and pay taxes.

    • Over the course of its 60+ years of operation, USAID’s food assistance programs have operated in more than 150 countries.
    • USAID is the largest provider of food assistance in the world using both food grown in the U.S. and cash for more flexible programming abroad.
    • In FY 2015, USAID provided over $2.5 billion in emergency and development food assistance to the poorest corners of the world.
    More on the web. LOTS MORE.

    USAID’s mission statement highlights two complementary and intrinsically linked goals: ending extreme poverty and promoting the development of resilient, democratic societies that are able to realize their potential.

    If you don't live in the U.S. please tell me what your country DONATES
    to the less fortunate world wide.
    Whenever there is a calamity in another country, especially a poor and
    underdeveloped country we send an aircraft carrier to lend support.
    And your country does what?
    Oh! Don't have an aircraft carrier.
    O.K. then.
     
  45. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yes, its called "foreign aid" in the UK.
     
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  46. jeager

    jeager Expert Member
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    Is there any way I can get some of that "foreign aid" from the UK?
    Perhaps if I declare war on the UK then quickly surrender and ask for
    aid?:p
     
  47. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    in 2016 it was over £13BILLION. I could do with a bit of that myself.
     
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  48. jeager

    jeager Expert Member
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    The U.S. is infamous for blowing up other countries at tremendous cost to
    taxpayers then rebuilding them at tremendous cost to taxpayers.
    We even save other nations from utter defeat then have those other nations turn on
    us.
    Doctor educated abroad settle in the U.S. to make serious money.
    Doctors from other nations come to the U.S. for better educations.
    Medical students from other nations come to the U.S. to get medical degrees
    then leave to go back home.
    Or stay here to practice.
    It's hard to find a family doc in the U.S. not from another country.
    I refused life saving emergency surgery unless I had an American doctor.
    They got me one, and a gorgeous blond she was! :>)
    Remember 50% of doctors and nurses finished in the bottom half of the classes.
    I had doctors that were alcoholic and drug addicts.
    I left them quickly.
    They are after all only human.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  49. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    yeah look where Germany is these days.
     
  50. JMS

    JMS Member
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    I could be wrong but sometimes I wonder where that foreign aid goes to from the UK. I wonder if it doesn't go to countries and put towards weapons rather than food. The UK also has the Red Cross that help out other countries needing food and supplies. The trouble is we need funds in the UK. Our money is running out and we don't have funds to keep our own NHS working, nor our police. We are making cuts left right and centre. Perhaps we should care first for us at home and then help the others in need with what we have left over.
     
    Lee CT NE likes this.
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