Rethinking My Cooking Methods Post Teotwawki

Discussion in 'Modern Cooking' started by randyt, Aug 22, 2019.

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  1. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    Years ago Sourdough mentioned that they used gas (propane or white) to cook their clients meals. At the time I thought gee wiz why not wood. For them it was the speed and efficiency. I figured for me wood will suffice.

    On second thought wood smoke travels a fair distance and is a give away. Fast forward a bit and in Maine the North Pond hermit was found. Here is a guy that lived 27 years unknown in a fairly dense area. Not urban but not remote rural either. One of the things he mentioned was that he never lit a fire and always cooked with propane.

    I wonder how long a 20 pound propane cylinder of gas will last used for cooking. I'm thinking a few cylinders squirreled away would be a good idea. I probably have 20 plus here and there.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    bump
     
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  3. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    A Dakota-hole fire is the perfect solution to the woodsmoke problem:

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dakota+hole+fire

    https://www.google.com/search?q=dak...1.69i57j0l5.6475j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    This principle can be used inside of a dwelling, by constructing one of the two holes outside the dwelling. This guy did it (SEE THE 9:47 MARK ON VIDEO):







    .
     
  4. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    There are a lot of variables to figure what your wanting. Like how often you will cook to eat, elevation your at, efficiency of your cooking burners, what your cooking, number of people your cooking for, etc.

    If your cooking twice a day for one person and small meals and not in the Rockies, I would think 6 to 8, 40lb tanks could do for almost a year.

    Personally, I prefer wood and use wood currently cured for 3 to 5 years and generates very little to no smoke from the stove. I learned in the military how to make and hide fires under SERE conditions, but wouldn't think there will be much use for that at my age.

    Dale
     
  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    Bottled gas will have a finite life, it will last as long as your cylinders do, once they are gone nobody will be refilling them, I have a few Calor gas cylinders but they are just for the hunker down period, once that is over I will be cooking on a log burner.
     
  6. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    I'm metric here, but IIRC a tyical single burner gas stove will use about 150gms per hour on full heat. Roughly in lbs your 20lb canister would last you about 65 hours at full blast. Thats a lot of cooking time, you'll use maybe 20% of that gas on simmer, using a pressure cooker will again increase the life of your canister.

    20lb should give you weeks of cooking time.

    The guy you mentioned is an interesting character, there was a book written about him. He broke into hundreds of homes over the years, taking food, gas, clothes, and books.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Thomas_Knight

     
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  7. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's not being a survivor, that's being a THIEF, i'm surprised he didn't get shot.
     
  8. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    The OP can refill them :)

    That's very helpful for planning purposes, thanks. Most stove manufacturers do include information on their products fuel consumption.
     
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  9. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    These are worth looking for on ebay usa

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRS-55-Outdoor-Camping-Lamp-Portable-Gas-Lamp-Tent-Night-Lights-Lantern/254336010149?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=59534&meid=63b266fe9490404b8c0ba61970f8b507&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=12&mehot=co&sd=173951507876&itm=254336010149&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

    These are as bright as a candle but use around 5gm per hour so take a standard 500gm can of Coleman gas (which you can refill from your big tank) and your get around 100 hours of light, run it 8 hours a day and your good for about 12 days. This is not bright light but makes fine background light and you can read by it. That works out to about 225 nights burn time from one 20lb canister :)
     
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  10. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Would you not steal if it hit the fan LW? It had hit the fan for this guy, for whatever reasons he had left society, he had issues but survived.
     
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  11. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    A real prepper would have no need to steal .
     
  12. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    "A real prepper would have no need to steal"

    Oh, a real prepper would, your day dreaming if you think they won't.

    To be honest, there is no such thing as the perfect prepper, most aren't even very good, the majority are OK at best but sadly dreams kick in, the 'I'll survive when all those around me won't' type of thing; reality in a real SHTF scenario is that preppers will die regardless of their skills or levels of preparedness...those that don't will steal if they need to, thats just survival.

    There is a massive difference to sitting back and thinking how you'll turn out but when the 'acute stress response' kicks in, the 'Fight or Flea' response things can change.

    Hope for the best and plan for the worse as the saying goes but in real life your morals will need to be flexible.
     
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  13. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    OK Bro, are you saying that if the world we live in had turned to shit and your loved ones needed something you didn't have, couldn't trade for and couldn't make for yourself but you could take it from someone else (either by subterfuge or force), that you would let them die? I won't lie about it. Put in that scenario and it means losing a loved one, someone else should have traded, sold, or whatever because I'm not letting them die. I prep so that hopefully I will never be in that situation, but experience has taught me, I can and will be a horrible SOB if push comes to shove. I've worked hard for many years to NOT be that man, but he is still in there.

    I can say, I wouldn't steal or kill to save only my own life. For me, saving my family is just different. I won't let myself fail them.

    Just asking.


    Dale
     
  14. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    The thief comment was about normal times and the person was / is a thief. No life threatening event, simply wanted to live his way and stole so he could be a hermit.

    During a true SHTF event and WROL is the current situation, then all bets are off. People will do what they have to to survive.
     
  15. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I can't comprehend anything my family would need for survival that we don't already have . If there was something else I could think of that we might need , I would "purchase it " now . Yes if we found ourselves lacking something , we would just do without and perhaps die . Stealing is not one of my options . I probably would watch my family die before I would steal , and instead of running and hiding would fight to the death to protect them and our retreat .
     
  16. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I can see an event where taking by force would be an option--- post SHTF -- WROL. Your child gets bitten by a rabies infected animal and local VET refused to give up the last dose of the rabies vaccine, as he was saving it for himself, in case he needed it.

    Under that circumstance, I could see taking the medicine by force. I could not and would not stand back and let my child die, when it could be saved. There could be a situation that you did not or could not plan for but would require a person to violate their normal moral standards.
     
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  17. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    No.
     
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  18. Dalewick

    Dalewick Expert Member
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    I applaud you for holding to your ethics. When she was 5 years old my youngest daughter was diagnosed with Leukemia. Without those drugs that can't be purchased without prescription currently, she wouldn't be with us. She just graduated college in May. Knowing what she went through, is why I stated what I did.

    Chemo drugs, heart drugs, narcotic pain killers, other specific drugs and some other items could be needed in a fallen world, but can't be purchased now.

    Just my view.

    Dale
     
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  19. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I bought an eco-zoom rocket stove several years ago. It doesn't make enough smoke to count because it burns the smoke too. It is very efficient and you can cook with any biomass and a handful of sticks will cook a meal. I also have a 100-pound propane container and three 30 pound ones. I can use them for heat and cooking during times when the power is off. I also have gasoline camp stoves that will burn unleaded fuel.

    The big thing that I will be doing with the wood stoves is boiling water both to sterilize it and cook. I have BIG pots so I can feed a lot of people at a time. One of the things about making one-pot meals is that compared to grilling meat on a fire the pot meals don't advertize your dinner with the smell as much. the smell of a BBQ can travel a LONG way and might attract hungry people that you can't afford to feed to your place. I like to cook big. I have fed several hundred several times but in a survival situation, you don't want that kind of attention.
     
  20. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    Thanks for all the replies. This all started with the movie Sourdough posted. If the folks in that movie would have had a hidey hole and a way to prepare food on the QT they could have, may have been able to keep a low profile until bad times blew over, maybe. Perhaps bad times will never blow over.

    As far as thievery goes, if a superior force separates you from your supplies and abode a person may be forced to do things they may normally not do. Thievery has been going on since the beginning of mankind, only now in many cases it is more sophisticated.
     
  21. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I will not STEAL from other people no matter what the scenario, there isn't going to be much, if anything, to steal from houses anyway as they never had much in the first place, commercial places are another matter.
    prepping isn't really about "stuff" anyway, long term survival is about skills and knowledge not about how much stuff someone can amass, if people haven't realised that yet then they have not understood the first thing about prepping, everything is finite and will be gone within a short time, what are they going to steal then to live on?
    anyone who thinks they can survive by stealing post SHTF will not be around for long.
    stealing in a WROL world will get the thief either shot or hung, maybe both!!
     
  22. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I'm not advocating stealing over skills or prepping. However if someone's children are starving they may steal, they may even murder. They may do what the eskimo done in times of starvation and kill their children. I don't know what people will do but I know what they have done in the past.
     
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  23. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    your talking about sheeple not preppers.
    anyone who steals will have to accept what happens to them as a consequence of their stealing.
    if they steal and get killed in the carrying out of their crime who will feed their children if their dead? some people need to think before they act.
     
  24. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    People not sheeple please LW its a rather passe expresion and childish at best.

    No I'm describing what anyone will do if it hits the fan. You talk of scrounging what you need locally after the event and thats just stealing someone else's goods...shot yourself in the foot there chap.

    There is a massive difference between stealing what you NEED and stealing everything at the detriment to others.

    Prepping is a combination of using knowledge gained and using 'stuff' as you put it. No 'stuff' no LW, no anybody.
     
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  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    incorrect, skills and knowledge were used for thousands of years by the human race long before the manufacturing and agricultural sectors even came into being.
    maybe your right about the term sheeple, not because of your reasons but because it is rude to sheep who aren't that stupid.
     
  26. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    Your comment reminded me of this post at survivalblog, ten years old now but still recommended reading. It changed the way I think about post-SHTF security, from "how to best defend my home" to "how would I attack my home" instead. When you look at your home / property in the role of the aggressor it's easier to see the flaws and weaknesses in your own defense plans.

    Back on topic...

    We use propane for cooking now, so nothing needs to change here - until the propane runs out anyway. Have a single burner dual-fuel (white gas or unleaded) stove kept in the BOV, good for heat and cooking in the event we get stranded away from home in a snow storm or similar. I tried to standardize on propane, gasoline, and wood for the fuels to run our appliances, vehicles, generators, etc in our home. Not saying those are necessarily the 'best' fuels, but just easier to stockpile a few fuels that will run everything instead of needing to store six or more types IMO. Added redundancy too, we can cook with all three fuels in the event we run out of one.

    Been thinking about getting one of the rocket stoves, I picked up one of the Deadwood stoves (http://www.deadwoodstove.com/the-deadwood-stove/) in a contest about 5 years ago and gave it to a family member living the suburbs without even trying it first. He loves the thing for camp cooking, and has used it a few times after thunderstorms caused power outages. Cleaning up broken tree limbs from the storm by using them to cook for his family; when life throws lemons survivors make lemon-aid. Now almost wishing I'd kept it...
     
  27. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    In my observation and very careful reading of what people post on forums, there are very-very few serious preppers. (Skills "or" Stuff)

    I notice how people (who consider themselves serious preppers) flat out refuse to accept possibilities for their future that are highly probable or inevitable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think you need to elaborate on the above remark. not quite sure what you mean. are you being derogatory or what?
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the whole point of prepping is to be prepared, that's is what prepping means.
    not only in the case of food stockpiles and other stuff but also in skills and knowledge, for without those people will die when their food and stuff is all gone.
    if someone is going to resort to stealing to survive post SHTF then they are NOT a prepper.
    maybe this is the difference between American and British preppers? I suppose there MUST be a difference somewhere.
    or is it just me? I have always thought of myself as different, especially from the common herd.;)
     
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  30. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I agree with Sourgdough . My observation has been the same . I don't think he is referring to loneonewolf 's sincerity in preppeing but to some of the other folks . Sourdough is simply in the same club as Lonewolf and me in thinking there should be no reason a serious prepper would be planning to steal .
     
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  31. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    W e seem to have generated a lot of enthusiasm on an off thread topic so I will try to start a new thread on stealing .
     
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  32. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    You need to have the knowledge to go onto the skills. We won't need thousands of years waiting for someone to design a plough, we all ready have knowledge of the plough and the skills will develop.

    Your wrong about sheep, they really are stupid animals.
     
  33. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    I have never said I plan to steal, I said I would steal if there was no alternative to the survival of my group...big difference.

    If you believe you would never steal your dreaming of a post fall Utopia that will never happen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  34. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    Don't have time right now to read the entire thread but an option could be a small rocket stove burning dry wood. They are extremely efficient and thorough in their burn so you need less wood to burn and because the burn is so complete there is nearly no smoke or smell.

    Something like this is what I have my eye on to use for outings with the Scouts to test it.
    https://www.silverfire.us/304-stainless-steel-scout-stove
    The also have a regular steel option also that is like 30 bucks
     
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  35. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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  36. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    I never mentioned a plan to steal either. What I do know is plans and preps can go awry, it can happen to the best of them. I call it the fickle fingers of fate.

    I'll mention it again, in the so called idyllic world of the native americans, they often raided other tribes for resources, food, materials and women. Here were a people that had skills and resources but sometimes things didn't always go as planned.
     
  37. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    The big difference is in the wording. PLAN to steal OR would steal if you deemed it a life or death situation. Those that PLAN to steal will not survive and they are not preppers. Those that acknowledge that there could be situation where they might feel the need to steal (food or medicine) to save their family or themselves, can be preppers. I plan to be self supporting but I will also acknowledge there could be a situation where I would steal to save my family members.
     
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  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    moved...
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  39. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Expert Member
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    Anyone have one or have you used one of the various models of Kelly Kettles? If so what are your thoughts and takeaways from it?
     
  40. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have the large one, I rarely use it. Wish I had purchased the smaller one. It is FAST at boiling water, you have heat on the bottom, outside and in the center tube. I have not seen it lately so it must be at a cache site.
     
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  41. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Sourdough has it right, the design makes them a very efficient way of heating water FAST, well worth getting one or two.

    The Swiss Army Volcano set up are worth buying too and you can use a small alcohol burner in the base instead of twigs

     
  42. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The thing that you need to understand about cooking with a wood-based fire is that the fire is controlled by the available airflow and not the wood. Rocket and Volcano type stoves work so well because they have a built-in way to supply vast amounts of air under and into the combustion chamber. This massive air supply allows the wood to be rapidly and almost completely consumed. This is great for boiling water but then a pain in the buttocks for simmering and such.

    Learning how to control the airflow is the secret to cooking with fire. While I love my rocket stove for boiling things in a hurry or even frying things for breakfast a fire in the ground that can lay a good bed of coals is your "oven" and slow cooker. A charcoal grill is sort of in-between and has its uses for searing and roasting meat. A smoker limits the air so that the wood burns slowly and not too completely. This allows meat to be smoked and slow-cooked.

    If the day ever comes when I will be cooking with wood three meals a day every day my "kitchen will have a boxwood stove, a rocket stove, a grill, a big meat smoker, a chiminea and a fire pit with pot racks. I like fire and love to cook with and on it. there is no perfect ONE device. rather there is an assortment of tools just like there is in my kitchen now where I have a stove with an oven, a slow cooking crockpot, a deep fryer, an electric skillet, a toaster, a waffle iron, and a microwave.

    Learning how to cook on each type of fire is a bit of an adventure but with practice and experience is just about like cooking in a modern kitchen. Also, like in your modern kitchen, you may actually use more them one type of fire at about the same time.
     
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  43. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    Your right about air supply Tex, to be honest if cooking with wood I prefer using a wood stove rather than an open fire, you have a chance of controlling the heat with a wood stove.

    Another thing to consider is the amount of wood used in stove v open fire. You'll use more cords on an open fire than you will with a heater. I have and have used small wood burners but to be honest given the choice I'll go for a white gas stove for 'camping', propane for camp/cabin.
     
  44. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have no idea what they currently cost, but I bought a half dozen when they were $9.95 each, and they are all cached. The down side of them is they are very tippy, you really need to build rocks around them and use a small pot. If storing them, pack them full of SOS scouring pads, as they are a bitch to clean.
     
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  45. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Back to the original post........I have well more then three year supply of propane cached in many different locations. And about 24 two burner (some three burner) propane cook stoves cached and roughly six propane heaters cached. Estimated twenty thousand strike anywhere matches cached in many-many cache sites. Plus lighters and strikers for welding. Pots and pans and dishes and utensils. Split and tacked firewood, the old old old tin airtight wood stoves and stove pipe at cache sites.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  46. duke in wales

    duke in wales Expert Member
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    This type of thing were dirt cheap, things like the Swedish Army cook sets with alcohol burners were only a few quid ten years ago but now they have shot up in price, the kidney shaped German mess set sold for around £4 not that long ago but now I've seen them going for £25.

    I have a stock of propane but need more, this thread woke me up...thanks :)
     
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  47. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    anyone use those little butane stove? not the camp stoves but the ones the street vendors use
     
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  48. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have the twenty pound propane bottles cached, they hold about 4 gallons (depending on where they are filled). Many have been at cache sites for twenty plus years, I check them every few years to see that they have not leaked, and never had one leak. Here inside the cabin I get roughly four months from a tank, a little less in the winter, and a bit more in the summer. That is cooking for only one person. My love of propane is the long storage life, works at -40 degrees below zero, is quite, and no smoke. to attract humans.
     
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  49. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    My "Guess" is that the propane bottles I use weigh about 30 to 35 pounds full (including bottle and fuel) which is a delightful load to backpack to distant cache sites. Now near 73 y/o that is a fun load, younger I would backpack two bottles. My bears have never bothered my propane bottles, but they can destroy the stoves, and it matters zero how well you clean them. So my cache sites only have new stoves, pots, pans, dishes, etc..
     
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  50. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    It's all depend on what you were cooking and how your cooking it. There isn't any benchmark figure for cooking fuel expenditure.
    Personally I use a cassette type butane stove at home, and also similar system for expedition setup. Typically we end up with 220g worth of butane fuel for 6 persons/day (cooking and warming up water)

    I'm currently in the market for kerosene stove that is portable enough and rugged enough to be sling loaded by helicopter.
     
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