San/bushman Natural Poisons For Survival Hunting

Discussion in 'Hunting With Primitive Tools' started by sekelbos, Mar 30, 2019.

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  1. sekelbos

    sekelbos Well-Known Member
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    This is a real fascinating concept and topic that I'm sure is relevant the world over!
    If you look at the primitive survival hunting skills and techniques of the San people of the Kalahari Desert , yoy firstly see that they are masters of their particular environment.
    They don't use high powered bows and arrows [30 pd at most] and use living resources out of their environment to help them in the hunt.
    They know which Beetles are poisonous and which are harmless to be eaten.

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    Furthermore, they know during which stage of the metamorphosis of a larwe the sap of the intestines are poisonous and can be carefully dripped on the light arrow.

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    These ancient knowledge were known to them long before we thought of it...
    Observe the tiny arrow tip made from a small piece of flattened wire !

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    Only the very small tip of the arrow is dipped in this natural poison.
    As they live in very dry semi desert areas, resources like arrow shafts are also scarce.
    As such, only the small tip will stay in the animal and the shaft will be recovered immediately as the animal ran away .

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    That is why they are also masters in animal behaviour and tracking.
    We sure can learn a lot from others if we are just prepared to listen and study...
     
  2. sekelbos

    sekelbos Well-Known Member
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    I sure wish that I know more about the natural survival of other environments!
     
  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    unless you are planning to move there might be better to concentrate on survival in your own environment.
     
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  4. sekelbos

    sekelbos Well-Known Member
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    That is the truth!

    In the same way I think we must be open minded for people that 'survive' or do things in a different way than we are used to or know about.
    This topic of 'survival' sure is an universal one and encompass so much more than only our own understanding sometimes.

    It's a fascinating topic with so many more aspects .

    I think the 5-C apply everywhere and is a good guideline for 'survival' basics !
     
  5. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's why I prepare to survive post SHTF in what some might call a "primitive" way, one that dosent involve technology, power supply or mass produced products.
    I have come across many who don't seem to understand that in a post SHTF setting technology that we now have and enjoy might just not function.
     
  6. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    A look into traditional Native American skills could enrich your knowledge quite a bit and maybe inspire ideas for you in your home country! Youtube is full of excellent tutorials that show how to work with stone (especially flintknapping), make and raise up a tipi, flesh out and tan hides, make blowguns, and so much more!

    I have enjoyed making and using Cherokee Indian style blowguns from river cane (bamboo can also be used) that are awesomely accurate. Nice darts can be made from finely whittled slivered wood. (I cheat and use storebought bamboo skewers). The "fletching" on the darts is made with thistledown.


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  7. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Wonderful Expert By Robert Griffing.
     
  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I really like the natural poison concept. Maybe when I get more study time (so much to learn and so little time) I will delve into local natural poisons.
     
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  9. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    There is a plant...Strychnos toxifera.

    The modern-day counterpart and derivative of the famous poison dart/arrow poison curare that was used by South American Indians is Tubocurarine (also known as d-tubocurarine or DTC). It has been known to be used in modern bowhunting.

    Years ago, I used to bow hunt using poison arrows, back in the days when Succinylcholine Chloride, or Anectine poison pods were legal in Mississippi, Alabama and other places. (In those days, my old hunting grounds were in Louisiana and Mississippi.) I am told that hunting with poison arrows is no longer legal to use there.

    Why I (and many other hunters) used it: 1) It dissipates and is rendered harmless by the time the meat is ready to process for consumption. 2) Although I am a highly accurate shot, even if I don't exactly hit the kill zone for some reason (unexpected wind drift, deer moving unexpectedly, etc.), that deer WILL drop like a rock, regardless of where on its body the arrow lands. This is great news for not only the deer who will not suffer a painful non-lethal injury, but also for the hunter who is hunting in impossibly thick woods that are choked with briars and impenetrable undergrowth. Tracking in woods like that is often very, very difficult, and sometimes can be dangerous. (Seems like a lot of South Louisiana and Missississipi is just that kind of hell to hunt in.)

    I don't remember which poison I bought, but it was so freaking toxic that just a tiny amount in a single cut on your skin would supposedly mess you up. The seller warned me that if I ever accidentally fell out of the treestand onto one of my own arrows, there would not be time to get to a hospital. I would be OUT. He also warned me to wear gloves while loading my pods, and to not allow even a very tiny amount of the poison dust to land in a single paper cut, scrape or even a hangnail.

    Well, I can add one more caution: wear a good face mask while fooling with this stuff! The first time I loaded my pods with the powder, it was the night before opening day of bowhunting season. I dutifully put on my latex gloves and carefully loaded a tiny amount of powder into each pod and installed them behind each broadhead. After I loaded about four or five pods, my tongue was numb and I was feeling pretty much like I was going to the North side of heaven. I am not sure why that happened, I think maybe because the ceiling fan was on and a teeny-tiny bit of the fine powder wafted into my nose?

    For years after that, I used gloves AND a face mask to protect myself when loading the pods and had no more problems with it.

    Because everyone who uses it has been exceedingly careful with it, to my knowledge no human has ever died from tubocurarine, Anectine/ Succinylcholine Chloride, or any other bowhunting poison. At least not back in the days I hunted with it. (I no longer hunt with it because it is illegal.)

    Here are some links to glean more educational information about curare and the plant it comes from, as well as info about Tubocurarine, its chemical counterpart:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curare

    http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Strychnos+toxifera

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubocurarine_chloride

    Some technicals about an antidote to it: http://zfin.org/action/ontology/term-detail/CHEBI:74530 (click onto the links within)

    Interesting excerpt from https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/arrow-poison

    " The study of the botanical origin of the arrow poison curare, its physiological (as well as toxic) effects, and the compound responsible for these provides a fascinating example of an early ethnopharmacological approach. Curare was used by ‘certain wild tribes in South America for poisoning their arrows’.24 Many early explorers documented this usage. Particularly well known are the detailed descriptions of the process used by Alexander von Humboldt in 1800 to prepare poisoned arrows in Esmeralda, Venezuela, on the Orinoco River. There, von Humboldt met inhabitants who were celebrating their return from an expedition to obtain the raw material for making the poison. Von Humboldt then describes the ‘chemical laboratory’ used:

    He [an old Indian] was the chemist of the community. With him we saw large boilers (Siedekessel) made out of clay, to be used for boiling the plant sap; plainer containers, which speed up the evaporation process because of their large surface; banana leaves, rolled to form a cone-shaped bag [and] used to filter the liquid which may contain varying amounts of fibres. This hut transformed into a laboratory was very tidy and clean (von Humboldt,24 p 88)

    As early as 1800, von Humboldt had to face one of the classical problems of ethnopharmacology:

    We are unable to make a botanical identification because this tree [which produces the raw material for the production of curare] only grows at quite some distance from Esmeralda and because [it] did not have flowers and fruit. I had mentioned this type of misfortune previously, that the most noteworthy plants cannot be examined by the traveler, while others whose chemical activities are not known [i.e. which are not used ethnobotanically] are found covered with thousands of flowers and fruit.

    Later, the botanical source of curare was identified as Chondrodendron tomentosum Ruiz et Pavon, which produces the so-called tube curare (named because of the bamboo tubes used as storage containers). Other species of the Menispermaceae (Chondrodendron spp., Curarea spp., and Abuta spp.) and species of the Loganiaceae (Strychnos spp.) are also used in the production of curares.

    The first systematic studies on the pharmacological effects were conducted by the French physiologist Claude Bernard (1813–78). It is worth looking at his description of the pharmacological effects of curare in some detail. “If curare is applied into a living tissue via an arrow or a poisoned instrument, it results in death more quickly if it gets into the blood vessels more rapidly. Therefore death occurs more rapidly if one uses dissolved curare instead of the dried toxin” (Bernard,25 p 92). “One of the facts noted by all those who reported on curare is the lack of toxicity of the poison in the gastrointestinal tract. The Indians indeed use curare as a poison and as a remedy for the stomach” (Bernard,25 p 93). Bernard was also able to demonstrate that the animals did not show any nervousness and any sign of pain. Instead, the main sign of death induced by curare is muscular paralysis. "


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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  10. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I just knew I could count on you GA for good info. Now short of my catching Mr. Rattlesnake and milking the venom (not real high up on my things to do list) any Arizona type local poisons (excluding any my wife may or may not be preparing for my consumption) come to mind"

    Now I do have to say, I am amazed at your hunting talents and experiences. Darn those do-gooder government folks, they are constantly taking away the fun stuff. They restrict the go BOOM stuff, the missiles and the poisons. just getting real hard for a good old boy or gal to have some outdoor fun. I do think is is much more humane to kill (poison) the wounded animal, then just let run off and suffer until is dies.
     
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  11. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I dunno about talents, but I don't mind sharing my experiences so that others may benefit from either my stupidity or with the "Been There, Done That" tee-shirt, lol.

    I agree that the use of poison is more humane, but truthfully, I was surprised that kind of poison for arrows was even legal... An accident with the stuff is NOT survivable, but many other types of hunting accidents are survivable... and it was only a matter of time before some fool put the poison to nefarious uses...ugh. But what finally killed the legal use of the stuff was in the name of so-called "ethics."


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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  12. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I hear yo there, Just like saving the forest so we can have bigger and better forest fires. I have to wonder how many spotted owls got cooked in the latests bunch of forest fires.
     
  13. elkhound

    elkhound Expert Member
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    if interested in sans bushman theres a person here in u.s. that knows lots about them.in fact she is a tribe member.they made her a member since she spends so much time living with them in the bush.dr.nicole apelian.she seems like a super nice lady and has interesting story of 'curing' herself of MS.

     
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  14. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I am interested in learning if "Monkshood" can be processed into a product for harvesting game..........and especially if that meat would be then toxic for human consumption. Monkshood is everywhere here.
     
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  15. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    So a little searching turned up this. After careful reading, I am "NOT" very convinced it would be worth the B.S. needed to produce the volume for harvesting game. I had always wondered if it could be used to poison bait for harvesting bears for human consumption......http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/atoz/aconitum_napellus.htm

    Hard to beat a set-gun for survival food in Alaska.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
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