Shelter In Place Versus Evacuate ?

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Pragmatist, Oct 17, 2019.

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  1. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-stay-put-advice-during-blazes-grenfell-tower


    Good morning all,

    The Grenfell Tower disaster is under review.

    Note link's "... not designed and built to facilitate mass emergency evacuation..." and
    " ... decades of neglect of fire safety," and
    "London Fire Brigade aren't the solution to this problem."

    Thank you Chief Cotton.

    ......

    An average of 1,000 high-rise fires a year in the holy city of London ?!
     
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  2. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    I'm curious as how they define "fire" and more importantly how does such incident get reported. 1000 fire incidents annually is a real HUGE number, and I strongly doubt the accuracy, more so considering your using Guardianista as your source.
     
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  3. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Varuna,

    I have no idea ... actually I do have an idea ... how these incidents are defined and reported.

    "Media" does not provide information unless it's a tangent; they provide motivations to obtain readers especially in these days with the loss of much advertising revenue. I personally rely on reading about commercial and industrial insurance claims.

    We live in an era when information is a valuable commodity. Thirty five years ago LLOYD's SHIPPING ECONOMIST Magazine cost ~ $US 1,000 per month. Not too much is new under the Sun.
     
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  4. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I agree. 1000 fires per year seems like an alarmingly high number. Is Grenfell Tower a residential or commercial building? I wonder what the advice or policy is on high rise hotels? Stay put or evacuate? It would be good to know when you check in.
     
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  5. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    In a city the size of London 5k in a year isn't much. I mean the article points out there are 6,900 residential high rises.

    Out of curiosity I looked up the number of fire call outs in NYC in 2018, here for reference. From 01JAN2018 to 31DEC2018 citywide the NYC FD reported to 27, 053 structural fires; 13,730 non-structural fires, 256,560 non-fire emergencies, 300,598 Medical Emergencies and 21,437 "Malicious False Alarms"

    So if LFB is only rolling out to 1,000 fires, maybe NYC needs lessons from London. Now You would think that after the world watched the tragedy on 9/11/2001 as people "sheltered in place" we would have learned. I think part of this is the mentality of society today. We'll someone else will take care of it so I don't need to worry or think for myself. Sorry but at first hint of something if I lived in one of those places you better believe I'm grabbing my BOB and hauling ass down stairs and out.

    I note that the article seems to put all the onus on the LFB, why don't the owners of these building need to submit the documents, drawings, evac plans and execute the drills? Why is that LFB's responsibility? Tell me, is there any city in the US where that city's FD goes around and ensures every apartments building executes a fire drill? Yaa didn't think so, but that sounds like what the article expects. I mean I know where I work we have to have fire drills a few times a year and the government isn't there to watch, yes they dictate it to be done and how often but the FD isn't there to watch or lead it.

    Now where it does sound like LFB is negligent, based on what is presented in the article, is incident management, organization and control. It mentions during the Grenfell tragedy they lost control and communication, that is on them and the fact it's still the case 2 years on, heads need to roll.
     
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  6. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Mort,

    I don't wait for them to "tell" me, I'm hauling tail regardless when that alarm goes.

    Something I do when traveling to the big city I'll often ask for lower floors, don't care if it's 35 stories and the view is awesome, I try to stay below 6 or 7th floor but not on the ground floors. From that level I can run down and be out in just a few minutes, even if I had to do it in the pitch black. That's a lot better than trying to painstakingly feel your way down 40 flights of stairs in the dark.

    One thing I also see from the article where not just LFB has ownership but the city of London does also is in if their codes permit the fire alarm systems to not be building wide
     
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  7. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Country Guy,

    Real good analysis - coupled to my philosophy also. The public sector is doing what is really required of the private citizen user.

    One point I'll add for other forum members: I rarely use elevators. They are traps.
     
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Commercial site Elevators are all connected to the fire alarm system. As soon as an alarm sounds, the elevators all automatically return to the first floor and stay there, until released by the fire department.
     
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  9. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    TMT - Any idea how long that's been required code and is it federal or state by state? I'm wondering if many older buildings would have been grandfathered and possibly not have the system you mention.

    Also, if traveling abroad, remember what is required in building codes here in the US likely is not the same in other countries..
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      TMT Tactical, Oct 18, 2019
  10. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the exterior cladding was the problem in the Grenfell fire, it wasn't fireproof, and since then a lot of cladding has been remove from other tower blocks too.
     
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  11. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    LF, I disagree with that statement that the cladding was the problem. Yes the cladding was the fuel for the fire and made it worse but a lot of the other issues we've mentioned is what killed those people. I think it also points to the modern sheeple mentality where people sat there doing nothing to the point it cost them their lives, All because someone hadn't said "ok kiddies, stand up and walk out, down the stairs single file.. that's good boys and girls." Thinking that someone will be there to save them, that is a fatal mistake. Thinking that someone cares more about them than they do themselves, that's just sad.
     
  12. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Pragmatist, Many years ago I had an elevator fall with me. It was only 8 feet, but 8 foot drops slams you very hard. It was an older elevator in a USACOE flood control dam where I was working. After that I started learning about elevators. In commercial structures as previously stated, elevators all return to the main floor when a fire alarm is triggered. What I did learn is that a elevator key is always kept with the elevator. Often 2 are in and/or on the elevator. Usually somewhere in the call box and with the control box on top of the elevator box. These keys allow you to open the elevator door as well as the doors to whatever floors your at. The keys are in a "T" shape as are the key holes. Modern elevators have multiple brakes and should never fall more than 3 feet before some brake halts it's movement. I agree though. Elevators SUCK!

    As far as evacuating or staying for a fire. I'm out of the building. One way or another. Years back I started buying small diameter, high tensile strength rope (1500 lbs), that stays in my travel kit. I also have 2- 16 foot rolls of 1 inch strap for making a swiss seat for myself and my wife. Either down the stairs or out a window to safety. I'm not staying in place.

    Dale
     
  13. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Dale,

    A valuable experience re the COE elevator at the dam !

    I,too, carry a fireproof evac rope. It's w/ my evac mask.

    Let me add 2 points.....
    1. Fires = poison gas
    2. Co-rider(s) in elevator has ... fill in blank_________ - flu, TB, EEE.

    ...

    I think we're helping forum members polish their prepper efforts.
     
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  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's the modern British sheeple thinking, that's why I don't believe in the golden horde theory in Britain and why I think the survival rate post collapse will not be high, especially in cities.
     
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  15. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I just don't see me sitting and being broiled alive is going to happen!! When there is a fire you are better off to go ELSEWHERE that isn't on fire than sitting and burning.

    People that tend to panic might be better off hoping for someone to come and save them but if you can remain calm and get out ahead of the mob you need to make a run for it. Unfortunately once the sheep stamped all of the obvious escape routes may become death traps where the threat of getting trampled is greater than getting burned to death.
     
  16. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    And there is also the premise for 90% or PAW literature, the race to get out first and to get ahead of the hordes.
     
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  17. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Panic could happen to anyone even those of us who is well prepped. And I believe it is more about how we dealt with that panic that will determine the outcome of the situation.
     
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  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Everyone can be afraid or even terrified but not everyone panics. Fear is an emotion caused by thought. Panic is when you let that fear make you a mindless and thoughtless child.
     
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  19. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    A governing motto: "Time is of the essence".

    You clearly explained the issue: "...sheep stamped all the obvious escape routes..."

    Like just about all other areas, we've got the sheep and the Mario Andretti wantabees. The small country roads here get closed down because of disabled vehicles. During dry conditions, a car wreck can translate to a wildfire.

    Evacuations - there are various types of evacs ... not all evacs mean packing up the Conestoga wagon and relocating to beautiful, downtown Pasadena ... Evacuation means *** Go to safety and not away from danger. The situation on the ground can rapidly change. ***

    Time is of the essence.

    Prep,prep,prep
    and
    factor in safety.

    Foot Note: "Don't drown. Turn around" presumes this can be accomplished.
     
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  20. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    depends where you live I guess, London for instance has a population of 8.6 million, there is no way all that lot is getting out in one piece, and where are they going? the roads will end up as one giant parking lot with broken down and out of fuel vehicles( British people drive on empty most of the time) and unless the government has gone down there is a plan to close all major roads to civilian traffic, so alternative routes will have to be found, minor and unclassified roads will have to be used.
    unless people actually know where they are going they will reduced to the status of refugees, and we've all seen enough pictures of those, haven't we?
     
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  21. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If you wait until the Government either calls for an evacuation or takes charge of the roads to control evacuation then you have waited too long and need to try and survive in place because the roads will be death traps.
     
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  22. Rebecca

    Rebecca Expert Member
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    I couldn't agree more with this statement! The absolutely last place you ever want to find yourself is in the middle of a grid locked road during a mass evacuation!

    Most people have absolutely zero common sense when it comes to evacuations. Just recently the government evacuated a few small towns in Manitoba after the snow storm caused such excessive damage to the electricity infrastructure. The people they moved didn't have to do it in a panic. It was a loss of electricity not an incoming missile. But what do I read not two days later. The evacuees are protesting because they haven't been given extra clothing. I'm sorry, but really???? You are aware you are leaving for up to two weeks and you didn't even take a change of clothes??

    And also, this is Canada people. It gets cold!! Do you not have at least a kerosene heater in case of power loss? A few bottles of water? Apparently not. The whole ridiculous story of these few evacuated people just highlighted how many will die when something goes really wrong.
     
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  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    A few years ago right after Katrina, The Houston Galveston area got hit by a big Hurricane. The government wanter most of the people on Galveston Island to evacuate along with some areas south and east of Houston. They wanted to do it in an orderly fashion and started it well head of the suspected landfall. they wanter the people on Galveston to go first and then the people in the areas south of Houston and then a small portion of the very southern and eastern parts of the Houston metro area. The rest of Houston was told that they would be safe in Houston as long as their homes were stable and well built.

    I think that half of Houston tried to hit the road on day ONE! The poor people on Galveston were unable to get through Houston. Even though they turned Interstate 45 into an all one way on both sides highway it locked up. There were people that actually lived north of Houston trying to evacuate!! Those idiots left home with a 1/4 tank of gas, can soft drink and a bag of chips for supplies! I-45 turned into a 114 mile long 6 lane parking lot. Those idiots sat there with their motors running until they either overheated and burned up their motors or until they ran out of gas!

    And THAT is where they got to ride out the storm. The lucky ones were in one of the smaller towns when they got blocked in. The unlucky ones were out in the woods. At least the ones in Town could walk to a store and a public bathroom...until the shelves in the stores were bare and they closed the doors. Every little convince store was surrounded by and the parking lots filled to overflowing with cars that were out of gas. Before long they were out of gas and everything else and since their lots and the roads approaching were blocked they couldn't get any deliveries so they closed down for the duration.
    a
    Even after the storm had come and gone the roads were blocked because so many of them were now inoperable for one reason or another. When you have 114 miles of bumper to bumper stalled cars it takes a long time to clear the roads. Meanwhile, most of the small towns were getting pretty unhappy with these people. They had blocked the streets bumper to bumper even in the intersections where you couldn't get across the highway even in the middle of town. the cops where I live actually blocked the river bridge and stopped any more coming through until they could get their streets cleared again. Then, the next day they started letting them go across a few at a time.

    These people were hungry, mad and stealing everything that wasn't nailed down and stood over with a gun. Any place that took in people had their facilities destroyed for thanks. One of the small-town schools that had taken in refugees and gave them a place to sleep, food, water and shelter ended up with $140,000.00 in damages to the school. They will NEVER open their doors again! A lot of places that tried to help will not do so again.

    Now, think for a moment about what it would mean if the roads were never cleared again. The 113 miles of cars would rust to dust there. The government had military trucks running up and down those roads for a week passing out food water and transporting people to the hospitals. Without that those people would have been in serious trouble and the people in the surrounding area would have had more trouble than just blocked roads and thievery. These people left their home "evacuating" with no food, no water and nothing more than a change of clothes and a few gallons of gas.

    Best of all was they had ATTITUDE problems and seemed to think that somehow everyone else was the cause of their issues. They acted as if the local people OWED them something because they had to evacuate. 80% of them should have stayed at home as they were advised to do. They were rude aggressive and mostly trashy. They destroyed the little towns that they were stuck in. I know for a fact that several of the small towns have discussed closing the exits off the highways into their towns or at least limiting it to manageable numbers. You have no idea what a mess it is when a little town of a thousand people suddenly has 8 or 10 thousand homeless visitors for a week that fully EXPECTS you to feed them provide bathrooms for them and maybe even entertain them. Some of the stores that tried to close when their shelves were bare and their fuel tanks empty had their places vandalized.

    If there had been no government assistance and it had lasted much longer there would have been violence.
     
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  24. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    WOW! And I'll bet that small town with the destroyed school got nothing for their troubles, bet FEMA didn't even bother to help pay for the destruction, just left it on the backs of the locals who then didn't have a school for their own families.

    One thing that I think this also brings up is that I'll bet in those 6 lanes of 114 mile traffic there were people that had supplies, that had gas and who were scared shitless with fear knowing if others found out they'd be tore apart for their "stuff". I wonder how many of those learned a valuable lesson too.

    You know, you would think that with the technology a few things could have happened differently like broadcasts over all AM & FM stations in the area every 30 minutes to an hour with instructions, tips, etc like don't idle your car and use up all your gas, only turn it on for 10 minutes to cool it down and then wait till the heat is unbearable before starting and cooling down again, explaining to the morons it's to save gas. Explaining to them to pull to the shoulders, to maintain an open lane for emergency vehicles. After the fact any cars they find blocking said emergency lane that has to be gassed up or towed also gets slapped with say a $5-k fine. Same thing the cell networks could have posted out emergency directions and tips similar to how Amber Alerts go out Emergency web pages could have been set up and the website for info broadcast. you know like hurricaneevacdumbasses.org. As you mentioned TX likely many were lower life forms that wouldn't listen or try to help themselves muchless anyone else.
     
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  25. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    There were some people that FEMA put up in motels that were still living there 18 months later on our money. When FEMA cut them off the motels had to go through an eviction process to get rid of them. ??? It had something to do with them being on welfare. One of the local churches took in about 30 people and when it was all said and done they had to replace all the carpet because the trash people had pissed on the walls and carpet. Seriously!! They also evidently didn't like the free food that the Church provided two meals a day and so at night they broke into the locked pantry and trashed the kitchen. They took every grocery basket in town and scattered them for miles up and down the freeway.
     
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  26. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Yep, some curr dogs just need put down...
     
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  27. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good Country Guy,

    With notable exceptions, FEMA provides funds to the state for state distribution. It's the doctrine of "All disasters are local" (This, too, has major exceptions). The "locals" have their local political leadership to deal with their state counterparts.

    It's not a tech matter; it's basic change to our society. During last year's northern California fires, evacuees would stop on the shoulder of road, park and then with smart phones take photos of scenic views of fires. The police and responders asked them to leave area immediately because they were interfering with emergency vehicle operations. These evacuees did not comply. These same (type of) evacuees would drive to safety and then fuel up at gas stations while making cell phone calls. The responders explained why not to use cell phones while refueling. The responders were ignored.

    Fines can be appealed - and they are, especially in California. There are some national-level preparedness orgs that would like to see fines - and also - asset forfeiture such as the vehicle and, in the case of real estate, the house not evacuated when in area of mandatory evacuation.

    Again, it's not a tech matter. It's a poor-quality governmental / political one. Much work to do.
     
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  28. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Sound more like a complex social problem as the real underlying problem with political mess on top of it
     
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  29. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Varuna,

    We're definitely on the same wavelength....we're saying about the same thing.

    Much complex social problems are embedded in the mentioned governmental/political one.

    Still, there are required obligations of the citizenry regardless of most all else. A uniformed law enforcement officer whether a highway patrolman or a game warden must be obeyed. There are some socio-cultural problems but they must not govern the emergency situation. For example, LEOs and some of the Responder community are taught that some native American tribes do not make eye contact with officials and some (all?) devout Muslims take offense pointing a foot or hand at them.

    The LEOs must be obeyed during emergency situations - as determined by the LEOs - or we'll experience a breakdown of society ............. I probably should rewrite this because what I described above occurred in the US - in the People's Republic of California.
     
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  30. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Sure there is definitely a time to evacuate . I once waded out of my home with my wife and infant daughter waste deep in flood water . I have seen my share of bad hurricanes . Had to replace roofs after a hurricane . Had to rebuild the same structure twice due to a tornado and high winds . This all served to form a serious prepper . --- But with all that being said in a power grid down situation for a year or more the above S.H.T.F. situations would just be minor events . That is why I prep for very serious situations . Most seem to be prepping for the type of events I have already been through . --- In a nation wide power grid down situation if someone hasn't prepped to the needed level before it happened they will likely perish . Most don't even have a retreat that is even possible to survive a situation like that in . Running out the door with a back pack and no where to go is likely to spell death . --- That is why I have been pondering some other folks unprepared situations they live in . Someone living in a suburban environment with a large yard or at least some land might could turn their home into a retreat very rapidly if they have already accumulated the necessary items . By constructing a high no see through fence " also Keith's Plan but in a remote location " around their yard tearing up the lawn if necessary to plant a garden , Barrels or some type of rain catch system set under the eve of structures . Light motion detectors along the perimeter fence , warning signs on the outside of perimeter fence , Fire arms to ward off any invaders and posting a guard around the clock . Granted this will make your home look like a fortress " that it is " . This type of plan would be far from ideal , but would be better than wondering around aimlessly with a backpack .
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  31. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Not sure about that, I may not be thinking straight. I've been under mental depression for few years to the point I've sold my only rifle (I'm no longer confident with my mental ability to keep any firearm), I even suffering from anxiety lately although thankfully there has been some progress since last week

    I still failed to understand the whole cultural appropriation (or whatever you guys called it) in western world. The whole pointing finger has more to do with the context of the situation rather than physically pointing finger toward anything. In fact pointing finger toward something is common practice and acceptable everywhere outside western world (maybe not in Middle East)
     
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  32. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Varuna,

    Your thinking presented here at forum is clear and concise.

    In the US, depression and anxiety are common.

    Western world "culture" is rapidly changing.

    Of course context determines the significance of historical cultural norms.

    The Middle East is really like Asia. Beirut used to be known as "the Paris of the eastern Med". Iran was going secular under the Shah. Egypt's Nasser was not Islamic-oriented. Saudi Arabia is now setting up to issue tourist visas.

    ......

    I knew you'd recognize the name of Allen Pope.
     
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    The British aren't used to evacuating, we don't have the extremes of weather that the US gets, (its colder in the north and wetter in the South but that's about it) even when a refinery was on fire the nearby residents were told to stay indoors and merely shut their windows.
    only and until the cities are on fire will anyone even think of leaving but by then it will be too late, up to that point they will sit tight.
    80% of the UK population lives in cities and they all have a modern attitude with smart phones and the like on which they rely 24/7, they have no knowledge of country/agricultural/food growing matters, why should they? and they rely on the power grid at the flick of a switch at all times and expect it to be there.
    which is okay when times are good but when a major disaster happens do you really think such people can think for themselves? they never had to before and they haven't had the knowledge or the lifestyle and a disaster is too late to learn these skills.
    and don't tell me the government will look after all its citizens, the British government(of whatever party) is incompetent and politicians are corrupt and care only about themselves.
     
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  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    When faced with danger, some act, some faint.

     
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  35. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
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    Depending in the type of disaster and scale, staying put (bugging-in) could potentially save a lot more compare to bugging-out. Case example of this is the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accident where the casualty among the surrounding populace is attributed to the evacuation rather than the result of any radioactive. Another notable example is the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake & Tsunami where the majority of survivor are those who bugging-in in any elevated structure rather than running to the hill and get swoop by the tsunami
     
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  36. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    This question has no one simple answer. Some disasters are run or die situations. If you are in a low lying place you either run from a tsunami or die. I'm not sure that hunkering down is ever a good response to a fire. In other situations, unless you have a specific shelter to run too you are better off in place than being exposed in the open trying to run. When it comes to hurricanes you basically hunker down to avoid high winds but then evacuate if you are in a low area where rising water might get to you.

    Each person has to evaluate the possible disaster situations that they might encounter where they live and then study your place and make plans in advance for each of your possible problems. A lot of disasters are not common. Most of the world isn't often threatened by Hurricane type storms. The same is true of earthquakes and tsunamis. My family, for example, comes from a place that has a LOT of tornados. It is bad enough that people there have underground storm cellars in their yards.

    We each need to make plans that are reflective of our place and our abilities. Not everyone is physically able to put on a pack and do 20 mile forced marches. You need to be realistic. You also need to have plan B and C because the best-laid plans can go to pieces in a hurry. Prepping means that you prepare and the first step in that is the mental preparation and planning. Once you have your plans then you can start gathering the things that you need for that action.

    I suspect that anything that you don't already have planned and prepared for on the day things suddenly go down just will not happen.
     
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  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    there is something called "normalcy bias" and most people outside of preppers suffer from it, the thought that nothing bad will ever happen up to the point it actually does, then they either go into panic mode or they freeze, that sort of person is not going to think for themselves and in a major disaster they are not going to make it.
     
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  38. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    You touch upon something that is a real problem that is going to wipe a lot of people out in the early days of any sort of long term apocalyptic collapse. Sheeple all over the world live with the idea that the way things are where they live are the normal and natural way that everybody lives or should live. The truth is that the gentle times that we have had over most of the Western world is not the norm throughout history. The idea that civilization and civilized behavior are normal is insanely wrong. What we call civilization is a tissue-paper thin sheet laid over the true nature of mankind.

    In 1977 a lightning strike caused a huge blackout in New York City. It left the city in the dark for one night. When the lights went out the thin veil of civilization evaporated and the riots started. This wasn't like riots where people were protesting some perceived insult or social injustice. It was simply the animals deciding that in the dark they could do as they wished. They set thousands of fires and looted indiscriminately. Look at this story and imagine it being repeated in EVERY large city in the Western World and the lights not coming on the next day to return things to "Normal".

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/new-york-blackout-1977
     
    lonewolf, TMT Tactical and Caribou like this.
  39. varuna

    varuna Tree killer & a cat person
      193/230

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    That is why I sternly believe that the most important aspect of prepping isn't about stack of supplies or gears, but it's about understanding the nature of whatever SHTF that might be coming (educating ourselves and maybe others)
     
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  40. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    Fire- This may actually be a bug out scenario.

    Earthquake- Too late to move. Local best 9.2, recent best 7.1. House damage could make me move but then the road damage would likely require me to stay.

    Tsunami- I'm high enough that if one hits me I couldn't drive out fast enough. Low likelihood of one high enough to reach me but a tsunami is quite possible.

    Volcano- Bug in and keep the ash level on the roof low. Our airports have been shutdown due to ash.
    Epidemic- Bug in. Nowhere better to be.
    Riots- Bug in. Unlikely to reach here.
    Tornado- Never see one or heard of one in the State.
    Flood- If Noah builds another boat let me know, otherwise not an issue.
    EMP/CME- Bug in. There is nowhere to go where I'd be better off.

    Nuclear Strike- This is a tough one. There are 3 to 5 ground strike targets in the 40 to 60 mile range from here and we are downwind. If it was really cold the wind is typically from a safe, for us, direction. If the car would start I'd have about an hour to bug out.
     
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  41. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Caribou, Very good breakdown of events and your choice of responses. Being a lazy person I am going to copy your format.

    Fire- I would have to bug out. No ability to fight the fire.

    Earthquake- Not too likely and also if does happen, too late to do anything about it,

    Tsunami- If it gets past all those mountains, then a whole of of folks are going to be a in deep doo-doo. Not on my worry list. Plus got more high ground near, if given time warning.

    Volcano- Not an issue.
    Epidemic- Bug in. Nowhere better to be.
    Riots- Bug in. Nowhere better to go.
    Tornado- Not an issue, might happen but very doubtful.
    Flood- DESERT --- If Noah builds another boat let me know, otherwise not an issue. (copied from Caribou)
    EMP/CME- Bug in. There is nowhere to go.

    Nuclear Strike- This is a very low probability, Could happen but least likely in my neck of the woods.
     
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  42. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
      332/345

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    Caribou, I like your format so I'm going to use it. Looks like I'm following TMT in a good choice.

    Fire- I would bug in. I constantly work on keeping a workable fire break around my property.

    Earthquake- Not going to happen. Live in the heart of the Appalachians and very geologically stable.

    Tsunami- I live on the top of a 2400 foot hill in the Appalachians. If I get a wave, the world is in trouble.

    Volcano- Nope!

    Epidemic- Bug in. Best place to be.

    Riots- Bug in. Best place to be.

    Tornado- A slight possibility and would get in shelter until passed. Then start over

    Flood- Nope. Live at the top of the mountain. My area had a 500 year flood event a couple years ago and I had no issues.

    EMP/CME- Bug in.

    Nuclear Strike- Could happen but it will depend on the enemies targeting and target saturation. If the country doesn't glow I'll be bugging in. If the country glows, bugging out to coast and south on the Atlantic. If our enemy has good intel and high saturation, I won't be here to worry. Low saturation or only tactical strikes and the mountains protect me.

    Dale

    Dale
     
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  43. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    the way we live now as a species is far from what our ancestors knew and it is far from being natural.
    people started living in cities because that is where the work is and they could use the shared facilities like roads, hospitals, schools, sewage treatment etc. but its an artificial concept and food has to be brought in from the outside and the waste must be removed, no city can feed itself the numbers are too huge and there isn't enough land, look at WW2 Britain would probably have been beaten into submission if we didn't have those Atlantic convoys, as it was we had to have rationing- that's not going to work again. and we had less of a population 75 years ago.
    the Industrial Revolution in Britain started around 1750 and that's when the move to the cities started, previous to that we had been an agricultural nation and most people didn't move far from their own villages, usually to the next town to sell their wares on market day, something that still happens in my area.
     
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  44. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
      452/460

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    To add a point to TexDan's excellent essay:

    A concept for some emergency management
     
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  45. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    This brings up a good point. Sometimes there is just nowhere to go. If, at the start of WWII every Briton had a years worth of food, a rifle, a handgun, and a thousand rounds for each, would there have been any reason for Germany to blockade GB? Would there have been a willingness to invade? Proper planning could forestay any need to evacuate. Think of Switzerland. Think of America. While the West Coast, Hawaii, and Alaska were attacked by Japan only an uninhabited island in Alaska was invaded. One I missed.

    Invasion- I'm not running, I'd just die cold and tired. I won't die alone.
     
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  46. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
      525/575

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    The USA has the largest armed standing militia in the world. Texas alone could put 2 million in the field. We will never be invaded successfully. The Germans ran head onto a similar problem in Russia. At that time they were well-armed and men women and children fought the Germans to a standstill even though the Germans were better armed and organized. The Germans were fighting for der Furrer and the Russians were defending their HOME, Mother Russia.
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      And that Ladies and Gentlemen is why COG is not viable in a National Grid Down situation. People fighting for the survival of their families vs. fighting to save the government. The Germany soldiers had all taken oaths but the Russians were fighting for the survival of their families. Being the best armed nation in the world and the determination of the people will prevent any invasions. As long as we stay armed, the governments, foreign or domestic, will not be able to enslave us.
       
      TMT Tactical, Dec 3, 2019 at 4:51 PM
      Caribou likes this.
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