Shooting Through Stuff

Discussion in 'Show Off Your Guns' started by Old Geezer, Nov 13, 2021.

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  1. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Running Engine, Harder To Kill Than You'd Expect...



     
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  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Another car:



    Jello ... a lot of jello:

     
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  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    .223 vs. .308



     
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  4. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    223 / 556 vs 308. Velocity vs. mass. And the winner is the 308. The advantage of the 223 /556 is less recoil, lighter ammo and faster recovery to get back on target. The 308 advantage is less wind drift, more energy transferred into the target, larger wound cavity. I.E. more stopping power. In my opinion, the 223 / 556 is easier to learn to shoot, thus easier to train the troops with. Faster shots on target. The 308 will excel in the ability to shoot through light brush / obstacles and stay on target. Both are quality cartridges for their specific application. For dangerous predators, I want the 308. For varmints and target shooting I want the 223 / 556.
     
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The military seems to be headed toward a 6.5 mm bullet / cartridge. Sounds to me to be a good compromise. The Swedes had the 6.5 x 55 over 120 years ago. The 6.5 Creedmore and it are near clones ballistically-speaking. The Creedmore case is a bit shorter ... that's about all of the differences.

    To me, it's beyond stupid for Americans to have ignored the Swedish loading for so long. A friend of mine who is a bloody genius (I'm a mental midget compared to him; he is an advanced electronics design engineer) took up the 6.5 Swede cause over three decades ago. We'd go to the range together. He convinced me of the great properties of this round.

    I didn't go to it. Wish I had. I was getting lots of .303 Brit on the cheap and I loved my .308 rifles, so I didn't take-up another favorite caliber. I got 7.62 NATO ammo from all around the planet. One of my .308 rifles came out of Israel, had a barrel made by FN, and was a minute of angle rifle. I had another minute of angle .308, so I got biased for that loading.

    Though late in the game (VERY late in the game), here comes the 6.5 Crdmr. I am utterly delighted that it is here and very popular. Hurrah!

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    The military is looking at the 6.8 SPC (Remington Special Purpose Cartridge).

    This uses a .270 diameter bullet. It's energy levels are much like those of the 6.5 Grendel (which is falling out of favor for whatever reason o_O). The .270 Winchester is FAR more powerful, as is the ancient-of-days 7mm Mauser.

    This 6.8 SPC would be a fine chambering as would the 6.5 Grendel. Some real military officer should step-in and tell these design engineers to get their act together and make a decision. The 5.56 NATO works, but it sure doesn't penetrate as it should.
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    For accuracy at distance, I really love my 6.5 Creedmoor. A very inexpensive rifle (T/C compass --- $300 ) shoots sub MOA at 100 yards, with a 143 grain ELD-X bullet. The 6.5 Grendel is far superior to the 556, balletically, but cost much more to shoot and is harder to find on store shelves, at this time. The 7.62 x 39 has more energy transfer than the 556 but has a shorter accuracy range, too much bullet drop at distance and a slightly heavier recoil. In my opinion, the 556 was designed to be more of a spray and prey round, due to it's light recoil and fast on target recovery. The 6mm PRC is gaining shooter acceptance but the longevity / popularity of it is still out for discussion. There are a great many excellent cartridges available but all have trade off --- velocity vs. energy transfer vs. recoil vs. accuracy at distance. When selecting a caliber, the intended use must be considered as the primary criteria. A 270 is an excellent round for deer or elk but a disaster for small game preservation. The 22-250 is excellent for varmints / small game but would be completely inadequate for large game animals. Yes I know that bullet placement is the true trump card and animals can be taken with just about any cartridge. Ethical hunting requires proper cartridge selection. Every week I assist shooters sighting in their rifles and every week I see shooters that cannot hit the bullseye consistently. They shoot well enough to bring down a deer or elk with the proper caliber but would only wound a deer or elk if using an inadequate caliber.

    Knowing your shooting equipment is also very important. Again every week I assist shooters the don't even know the click value of their scopes, much less the ballistics of their rifle caliber. I also see scopes that are improperly mounted. The funny part is many Americans tend to purchase /own high quality rifles but install low cost / budget scopes. Rifles costing in excess of $800 with $100 scopes. Recoil management is another consideration. Typical medium game animal cartridges have significant recoil. When hunting this is not a problem, as the hunter is most likely only going to take one shot but when sighting in, this does rear it's ugly head. After a couple rounds, recoil flinches become very apparent on targets. For medium / large game animal calibers, I am a big fan of using a quality muzzle break and a good quality gel recoil pad. The muzzle breaks are a pain at the range (very loud and concussive to near by shooters) but do work wonders mitigating recoil. The gel recoil pads, in my opinion, are the best for recoil reduction and mitigating recoil flinching. I installed both a muzzle break and a gel recoil pad on my son's 300 Win Mag, and now he can shoot a 100 rounds and not go home with a sore shoulder. He claims his rifle now shoots like a 22. I would not go that far but it has significantly reduced his felt recoil. Ammo cost and availability is another sighting in issue. In the past, when ammo cost was reasonable and ammo was readily available, 5 shot groups were used to calibrate / adjust scope setting. Then as ammo was getting harder to find, 3 shot groups were used. Now shooters are trying to adjust scopes using a 1 shot group. The one shot group technique does not work. It takes at least two shots grouped together (close to each other) to determine scope adjustments. I see shooters burn through an entire box of ammo, chasing flyers. One shot groups mean nothing.
     
  7. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
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    I do my own car repairs so i know cars and car maintenance . I always see people trying to stop a car ,what i would do is shoot out the radiator , a car can only run a very short distance with out cooing, it will seize.
     
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  8. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Shooting out a radiator would require hitting either one of the fill / transfer tubes or the the top or bottom of the radiator. Blowing holes in the fin area would have minimal effect. The other consideration is to hitting the radiator, requires the shooter has to be facing the front of the vehicle. Vehicles are a lot harder to disable than many know.

    I did attempt to stop a hit and run drunk driver's vehicle once. Shot out the one front tire with two rounds (357 mag), shot the rear tire with one round, and hit the top of the radiator with one round. The driver continued down the street, until he was driving on just his rims. What stopped the vehicle was the opposite side front fender being pushed into his other front tire. Three flat tires and a punctured radiator, did not immediately stop the vehicle. Had the driver not been too drunk to run away, he would have been far enough down the street to make an escape. In a SHTF event, I would focus my shots on the driver's side windshield and the doors of the vehicle. Glass, (even safety glass" and sheet metal will not stop most calibers. Shooting the driver during normal times is going to get the shooter a minimum of a court date and some jail time, unless the shooter can absolutely prove their life was in immediate danger. A fleeing vehicle is typically not going to fall into that category. Vehicles can travel a fair distance even without water or oil. Far enough to allow the driver to exit the vehicle and seek cover or an escape route.
     
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  9. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    As a prepper I will only be interested in stopping a moving vehicle if it's WROL and they are a danger to me. The 308/7.62 NATO would be my choice in any situation that doesn't require a 50 cal bmg. If you ever get the chance, shoot up a vehicle and see how the rounds penetrate and from most angels how they will shred occupants. Easiest way to stop a motor vehicle is to kill the driver. If your only interested in stopping a vehicle (such as being pursued/attacked) use something like caltrops, spike strips, etc or if you need vehicles permanently disabled, try termite or other incindiaries.

    Dale
     
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  10. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Stopping a vehicle falls under several categories. Do you need to actually stop the vehicle from advancing or do you need to disable the vehicle and prevent if from reaching it's intended destination. Stopping a vehicle requires barriers of sufficient mass to stop the moving mass of a vehicle. Disabling a vehicle is much easier. As Dale points out, caltrops, spike strips, or dead driver will accomplish the task of disabling the vehicle. Even a 50 BMG shot to the engine of a moving vehicle will not stop it in it's tracks. Law of physics.
     
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  11. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    in a previous occupation I had to go and collect the company payroll in a company car from a different location many miles and several hours drive away, I was instructed to lock all doors from within, not to stop for any reason on the journey, and if anyone tried to stop the vehicle I was to accelerate and drive straight through them whatever the consequences,
    no one ever tried to do so.
     
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  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I've been some bad places. Thank God on high that I've been spared the worst of it. Your story is now happening to all manner of folk tasked to retrieve or deliver goods from urban areas. Only two months ago, I overheard two truck drivers discussing this very situation. I know one fellow who just blew the red lights when no one was coming. I've got another good story, but it would go on too long.
     
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  13. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I have been in and through a lot of places that were probably not smart places for a white boy to be. Day or night though I have never had a problem. I honestly have found that people, even folks in what might be called the wrong side of town, seldom want to attack or mess with someone that seems to be without fear and offers a wave and a smile to all. I suspect that they thought I was just too crazy to mess with. People are a bit leary of crazy folks. In case you are wondering, yes I was a little bit suicidal.

    When I was young I was a very angry person. Also people are not generally mad dog crazy and don't attack people for no reason where I live. Maybe the fact that we all too often are armed might have something to do with that. For decades I carried a stack over and under 38 derringer in my hip pocket. In the winter I usually had a hunting knife under my coat too.

    It is nice that while I shoot right handed I write, throw and eat left handed. It gives me options so I always carry my handguns right hand draw and my knife left hand draw. The important thing is that this makes me comfortable in places that maybe I shouldn't have been. When you have no fear almost nobody wants to find out why.
     
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  14. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    when I lived in a city I frequented some rougher areas but I had friends who lived there so there wasnt a problem and people got used to seeing me coming and going.
    of course looking like I do does help, nobody wants to mess with someone that looks like me, I was told many years ago by a prepper that if he hadnt met me first post SHTF he would have shot first and asked questions later, thanks a bunch!:oops:
     
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  15. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    LOL, I know exactly what you are talking about Lonewolf. I often project an intence "Don't Dare mess with me if you want to live!!!" sort of aura. I don't always mean to. I guess it comes when I get a little nervous and then says around even after I relax. Being big also probably has a lot to do with it.

    My best friend was a little guy BUT unless you wanted to fight you didn't call him THAT. He was 5'3", claimed another inch or two but wasn't and weighed 135 lbs. There wasn't an ounce of fat on him and he actually got a colledge schoolorship to play football. he WAS TOUGH. I was mostly a gental giant while he was a firecracker! He could lay a TON of whipass on you in a split second.

    I watched a lot of stupid people get an education from him. My rule if he didn't start a fight though was if you kicked his ass I was going to STOMP your ass. I didn't fight. Fighting infers that I might let you hit me too. That was NO part of my plan.
     
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I'm a big guy but I'm more of your gentle giant type Tex, leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. I dont go looking for trouble and I'll avoid it if I can. I dont have a lot to do with other people. I was always the big guy, my friends were all smaller and shorter as me so I got the nickname to suit.
     
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  17. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    Being a military brat, I attended a different school just about every year. Growing up, I soon learned I would have to fight the bullies, if I wanted to be left alone. Like Tex, I did not fight fair but always fought to win, whatever that took. In the 7th grade I broke my right hand in a schoolyard fight. The following year I broke it again in another fist fight. That was when I shifted to martial arts. In my younger years I would fight at the drop of a hat and I sometime threw the hat. I was never "Big" or intimidating size wise but I did develop the "Look" that let people know I would not put up with any BS. After several years or martial arts training, I never had another fist fight, go figure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  18. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I was often called "Heavy Duty" at work. HD were my initials before my last name...
     
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  19. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Regarding the OP,
    Shooting through things? Certainly not to be recommended. You cannot clearly and definitely identify your target when it is in a car or behind a door.

    Scenario; your target ducks behind a car…you riddle the car with 5.56 (just like they do in the films) only to subsequently discover the dead toddler strapped into the back seat…..never shoot unless you know exactly what you’re shooting at!

    Firing any firearm in a building risks the bullet passing through a plasterboard/sheet rock wall or ceiling.
    Shooting at vehicles also risks ricochets and rebounds, rare but not unheard of, in such circumstances you have no idea where that bullet is going.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
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  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Knowledge is never going to be a disadvantage Ystrac. The only way to KNOW if hiding behing a car or car door is a good stratagy like it is on TV is to SHOOT UP A CAR. Take my word, the only part of the car that will depedably stop a bullet is the motor. The next best thing is to lay down behind a tire. These are not openions I have shot up several cars over the years to find out the FACTS. If someone is behind a car shooting at me I AM GOING TO SHOOT THROUGH that car and hit them. This is not my first choice of shots to take BUT it may be the ONLY shot that I CAN take. I KNOW where it will work and where it won't.
     
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  21. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I saw that ricochet video years back. Thought: Shooting FMJs towards horizontal plates of steel is not what I would have recommended for this fellow to do.

    1960s: I think this happened in my neck of the woods. Mean idiot fires a .45 Auto using ball ammo at a car. Back then, cars had steel bumpers. (I had the rear bumper of my 1965 Buick re-chromed.) So, .45 FMJ interfaces with the steel bumper of the car whose occupant the idiot wished to take-out. Bullet ricochets straight back into the shooters head = dead. Oopsie!:oops:
     
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    1. Ystranc
      Instant Karma:rolleyes:
       
      Ystranc, Nov 20, 2021
  22. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    I understand that the engine block and the thicker steel of the wheels are the only parts of a car that offer any protection but that was not the point. The point is that you have to know what you’re shooting at and unless you’ve got X-ray vision you can’t be sure who or what is behind whatever it you’re shooting through. You can’t be sure that there is an effective backstop that will prevent injury to innocent bystanders. If you hit the block you cannot be sure where the ricochet is going to go. All you learn from shooting up a car is that you have got a car full of holes.
     
    1. TMT Tactical
      So if somebody is hiding behind a car and shooting at you -- you do not plan to return fire, for fear of somebody whom might be in the cover vehicle? Are you not endangering other people around you by allowing a person to continue to shoot at you? Both shooters are accountable for their fired projectiles. If I am being shot at, I will take my chances and take responsibility for my shots. I will return fire. I would rather take my chances with the court system vs. the coroner.
       
      TMT Tactical, Nov 19, 2021
  23. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    Ystranc, I may be wrong but I think TD is referring to what would be considered a combat type scenario where some one or even several some ones are trying to kill you. Such as after a TEOTWAWKI event and WROL or Chicago on the weekend. I also think he may be referring to untrained people's misconception that a vehicle or building walls will protect them from bullets. A vehicle is poor protection at best and unless your home's walls are reinforced concrete,....forget it. I've seen 308 Win. Rounds to all the way through conventional construction homes. A M60 machine gun and a few belts of ammo will turn houses into Swiss cheese. Even 5.56mm NATO rounds from a couple hundred meters will kill anyone hiding in a modern home. I was trained to shoot where your enemy is, not where you can see him.

    Dale
     
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  24. Ystranc

    Ystranc Master Survivalist
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    Dale, up until this point no one has mentioned it being a combat situation. It has simply been some dumbass YouTubers shooting cars, rocks and engine blocks.
    TMT tactical, you put it very well, “both shooters are responsible for their projectiles.”
    In answer to your question, in that situation I would try to find cover of my own and wait, or move my position relative to the position of the shooter until I had a clear shot. If the shooter runs away then that’s just fine, my priority is self defence not killing the attacker. If the shooter kills others then that is his responsibility, not mine. If I kill innocent bystanders with reckless gunfire then the responsibility for that rests on me.
     
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  25. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    if someone is shooting at cars there is only one thing I am going to do and that is GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE, dont hang about to be shot, leave the area and leave fast.
     
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  26. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The YouTubers were having what we Americans refer to as "fun". This is light-hearted stuff. Maybe some useful information will come of it -- who knows.

    What "rocks the boat" for XY people is destruction, often times fire is involved. So, it's rifles and fire-extinguishers. Americans take out their cars and pick-ups and see how fast they can hit 100 miles per hour in these puppies. There's a lack of fear over here. We identify big-time with Aussie out-backers.

    Here is an instructional video concerning what tires to buy if you live on a muddy lane:

    Australia


    USA



    OK so Grandma needs a pumpkin. She only lives down the road aways, so why not just shoot a punkin over to her:




    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
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  27. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Another reason for knowing what shoots through whatever is when the local savages are having a "discussion" over who sells which drugs where and the discussion involves lead ... this, occurring near your home.

    If the "festivities" light-up among these people of other cultures while you are on your way to your car, coming back from your car, or out-back in your garden, then you must take cover behind cover, not concealment.

    This is now happening in Rural America as cultural disease metastasizes out of cities, or if your community happens to exist somewhere along a drug route between cities.

    Usually the interactions only involve screaming and cursing. However, at night, I've heard gunfire near where we live; i.e. not hunting nor target practice. There was a home invasion less than 600 yards from my house -- city gang attacking some enemy or another (local police think that they hit the wrong house). Our community lies very near a major interstate highway.

    One can be in the center of a bucolic paradise but travel up the road a ways and find oneself in Mogadishu.

    Of late, Sweden is discovering other cultures.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisaki...s-what-officials-blame-it-on/?sh=1094b19ea281

    Article quotes in color Blue:

    Eight in 10 shootings in Sweden happened in a “criminal environment” in disadvantaged neighborhoods, according to a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention published in May, Reuters reported, which cited disputes between gangs as one of the reasons behind the phenomenon as well as drugs trade and lack of trust in police.


    Last year, Sweden’s National Police Commissioner Anders Thornberg told the Financial Times rising gang violence in that country could potentially be a “threat” to its democracy if “certain groups” continue to “stand outside” of society, referring to immigrants in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

    The chances of men between the ages 15 and 29 in Sweden getting shot were ten times higher than their counterparts in Germany, a 2018 study found, according to The Economist.

    Even though Sweden has some of the “world’s strictest” gun control laws, it is faced with increasing gun-related violence because of illegal firearms smuggled in from countries in the western Balkans, according to a 2019 paper in the journal Forensic Sciences Research.

    Eight in 10 shootings in Sweden were connected to organized crime, a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention said. That ratio was “significantly” higher compared to other countries in Europe, the Guardian reported. In 2018, Sweden had the highest gun deaths in Europe, surpassing Italy and eastern Europe, due to increased criminal gang activities, the Guardian said. Deaths involving guns tripled in that country between 2012 and 2020, Bloomberg said. Nearly 260 crimes in Sweden involved explosives in 2019, up 60% from a year earlier, Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention data showed. Linda Staaf, intelligence service chief of Swedish National Police, told the Observer that bombings in public spaces are “specific” to that country. Staaf added, “It’s not normal to see these kinds of explosions in a country without a war.”
    .
     
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  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    good reason not to live in a city.
    if you enter an area where a riot or gang activity is going on, turn around and find a different route, you should be able to hear all the shouting and screaming long before you get close, maybe see the Police vans parked up, dont get involved, dont run as that will get you noticed but just leave the area as quickly as you can.
     
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  29. Dalewick

    Dalewick Legendary Survivalist
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    Ystranc,
    Combat - fighting between armed forces.

    If you are getting shot at and you are armed, you are in combat. You may not call it that, but it is combat.

    Dale
     
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  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    if you are a civilian its called a fire fight, something I dont intend to get involved in because I know who would lose.
     
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  31. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Texas, once you get out of the mega city piss holes, is a very peaceful place. This is to some extent in part that we are mostly well armed people. when Granny or PawPaw is as likely or more so than anyone to come out with a gun the criminal element is at a disadvantage. Also unlike the hell hole places if you are attacked or someone tries to rob you, you have every right to kill them.

    It happens pretty often and there is not much said when it happens. You are actually better off to make sure that you kill them. That way there is only one story to be told. Older people like me are big on carrying a gun and most of the time it isn't a dinky 22. When I go to Houston I have a sawed off 12 ga and a high capacity 9mm.

    I feel sorry for people that live in fear and have to face that they either let the criminals assault them or end up being tried for defending yourself. That isn’t freedom. In many places in the US today the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness only really applies to criminals. If you defend yourself and interfere with their “right” to rob and steal you are asking for trouble.

    I would like to see a bounty put on people that mug old people for their social security checks. Wanted, preferably dead and not alive, would be great. He way it is not if they ARE arrested they are out before you get home. If convicted they are only in long enough to get their paper work done so they can be paroled.

    I have known people that were robbed in their own homes. They were not physically injured but they were never the same either. When your home isn’t any longer your safe place you can’t ever really relax any more.

    If I am home I am never far from a loaded gun and I will kill anyone that enters my home with bad intentions. I look at a thief as being no better than a murderer. They take what I worked hard for and would make my home a place without security.

    If they come in and I am home one of us is going to die...period. I don’t ever lock my doors. My house is protected by one small yappy dog and a shotgun in every room. When we are not home the gate is closed and there are three big border collies running free. They aren’t mean but most people don’t like the noise of three barking dogs when they are going to rod a place.

    When I lived in town many years ago I was always within reaching distance of a gun and never came home and entered the house without a gun. It wasn’t that I was worried it was just a matter of choice to never be on the losing end of a fight. I am nearly 70 now. I don’t plan on ruining a perfect record.

    I never fought often but then I NEVER lost a fight...a few were draws though when I was younger . If you mess with me YOU are going to come out hurt and not wanting to do it again!! I don’t fight dirty...that infers that you have a chance. I generally prefer not to fight but if you push me into it I will take you hard and never let up and give you a chance. I will beat and kick you until you stop moving. Boxing is a sport fighting is survival...one winner and one loser.
     
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  32. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    Once you get out of the larger British cities and big urban centres and get out into the country lanes and small towns and villages it is very peaceful too, (living where I do now is VERY quiet and peaceful). living in a city can be very stressful, I should know I lived in a city for 40 years thats why I'm never going back whatever happens.
     
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  33. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Once it hits the fan, I fear the bucolic nature of this place will change.

    We live less than 120 miles away from a major urban area; i.e. not far enough.

    Too, even rural people's personalities change when stressed. The panic-driven and the crazies will come out of the woodwork.

    We'll have to defend our families when the cities become uninhabitable.

    Back in my home state, urbanites are moving into rural areas even now. Due to this, home prices have skyrocketed. These folk moving in are not likely to be self-sufficient and will thus prove a burden when things go sideways. The land is capable of FAR more agriculture, however if people are useless, then they are useless. They don't even own any tools (or few tools; certainly no garden tools nor tillers) with which to do work. They'll just be eating / pooping units, nothing more. And they'll panic and get weird/unpredictable. Homey here has seen and had to deal with a lot of crazy -- it isn't pleasant.
    .
     
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  34. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard ! Staff Member
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    When the SHTF and it turns into a long tern WROL event, then the sheeple will become the victims and the wolves but never the sheep dogs. Hunger and thirst will convert many into the wolf category but more will just become victims. The preppers will continue to be the sheep dogs but will limit their services to family first and then to the local community. Do not fool yourself into believing that all sheeple will not have firearms' or not know how to use them. Every week I see liberals (dress attire tend to give them away) learning to shoot MSR's (Modern Sporting Rifles --- AR platforms) at the local gun range. These sheeple will become the wolves. The gangs are already in the wolf category. The prepper is in the sheep dog category because they have prepped and do not need to attack the sheep to survive.

    The major difference in the shtf outcome will be the knowledge of real world tactics and supplies. The new wolves will know how to shoot their weapons but not how to organize a sustainable group. The prepper will have the skills and tools needed to survive long term. Also many if not most preppers (myself excluded) will have past military service to draw upon. The sheeple / new wolves will not. They will rely on video game experience to carry them along. The gangs will pose the most danger as they have a better hierarchy and will not hesitate to kill.

    The most dangerous time will be between short term shtf events and a complete collapse. While current law still exist to some extend, the criminals will be more embolden to attack. Law abiding citizens will have to be more careful when employing lethal responses. Once WROL is the norm, then the law abiding citizen can take out the trash, without worrying about legal repercussions.
     
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  35. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    modern populations depend on the system for all their food supplies, when that system fails -whatever the reason-so will they, they will be unable and unwilling to fend for themselves.
    most Sheeple will be dead within a month or so of having no food or a few days of the water mains going down, even if they steal some food it will only make a few days difference and will only delay the inevitable. once the water mains go down serious diseases will arrive, like dysentery and cholera as hygiene protocols go out the window.
    without the skills and knowledge to provide for themselves their demise is ensured, the vast majority are not self sufficient never mind self reliant.
    same for any gangs or looters, anyone who cannot provide for themselves when all supplies of stored food are used up will only have a short time on this earth.
    once the food is gone they will get weaker and weaker as their stomach starts to consume its own lining , after a short term none of the above will be causing survivors any problems, its just a matter of keeping safe until that point is reached, the further one is out from any large urban centre the better.
    there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and there will be violence in the big cities but the outcome will be the same.
     
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  36. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The gang-bangers best at stealing food, guns, and ammunition will survive to go out foraging. The more violent and rapacious they are, the more successful they will be. Immigrants who learned how to handle weapons in their home countries will have a good chance of survival, especially if they also know how to hit a food & fuel rich area, then move on to the next. Stealing some heavy trucks / equipment will allow them to clear a path before them. They will drain the gas tanks of abandoned vehicles or wipe-out the drivers of vehicles still having some fuel left. With their trucks, they will be able to haul stolen generators and gas/diesel tanks. With their motorcycles, they will have perimeter defense and scouts. And too, motorcycles use less fuel.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/biker-gangs-bring-war-to-britain-1522210

    "Britain is bracing itself for a wave of deadly biker gang turf wars which could start rolling across Europe.

    "Police have warned that violent gangs from America, Canada and Australia – some armed with assault rifles and grenades – have arrived on the continent.

    "It has raised fears that there will be a surge in violence as the 'Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs' battle it out for supremacy and control of organised crime markets."

    [​IMG]

    ============================

    Germany:

    "War Grade Arsenal of Weapons Confiscated at Mosque in Germany"

    https://realisticobserver.blogspot.com/2016/06/war-grade-arsenal-of-weapons.html

    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    U.K.:

    "Primary pupils made to carry guns by gangs"


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/primary-pupils-made-to-carry-guns-by-gangs-9531394.html

    "Mr Thomas, who runs a charity called Gangsline seeking to help gang members escape crime, also warned of a large rise in the number of African-born children involved in London gangs.

    "He said this had been 'completely under-estimated', adding: 'You have a child from Somalia, you have a child from Nigeria, from Sierra Leone — these countries have wars, civil unrest.'

    “'We have young men that don’t care about the society they are in because of where they come from.'”

    [​IMG]

    "U.K. Police Warn About Flood of Guns From Eastern Europe"


    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-k-police-warn-about-flood-guns-eastern-europe-n676096

    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Sweden:

    "Homemade machine pistols seized in Sweden"


    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/02/homemade-machine-pistols-seized-sweden/

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    "Sweden to hold GRENADE amnesty following dozens of bomb attacks carried out by criminal gangs in the last year"

    O.Gzr: Like gangs are going to turn in their grenades! Ha ha ha ha ha :p:p:p

    upload_2021-11-25_12-11-34.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021 at 11:20 AM
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  37. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    your biker gang piece is old news from 2013.
     
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  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    So, they all just disappeared since then. Wow, how neat.
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    you are the one member that keeps posting out of date articles, I do not have the time or inclination to discuss old news.
     
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