Starting To Reload -- Need Advice.

Discussion in 'Guns, Knives, Tools, Etc.' started by TMT Tactical, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Thanks for the reply /update. Your desert is a lot different from my desert. I don't have many camels roaming around. I had never considered that the camels would be considered Varmints. Live and learn. I am also very envious of 1,128 m shot. I can't even see that far, scope or no scope, much less get a head shot. The hold over, much less compensating for wind-age, must have been huge. The drop on a 30-06 at just 500 yards is over four feet. my hats off to you mate.
     
  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Great information on ballistics and terminal ballistics in particular. I have no problem killing animals but I really dislike wounding animals. That gutted ground hog still bothers me. My follow up shot immediately ending it's life but I want all my shots to be terminal, the first time. My ammo selection is intended to provide a heavy projectile, moving at a high FPS and designed to provide maximum expansion. So I think I have all sides of the topic covered.

    As TexDamn points out, bench rest shooting is not the same as Freehand field shooting. For me there will not be any freehand shooting. I will use some form of rest, bi-pod or tree or whatever is solid / stable. My freehand shooting days are long gone. Hands are just not steady enough. Just another reason to make as accurate a round as possible, help compensate for my shooting ability. Plus I am going to have fun making the best round possible for my equipment.

    Now for LalaKai and reloading for self defense. I have to agree that some prosecutors might / would portray reloader's as blood thirsty. I would still prefer my ammo (as stated - -better Q.C.), than factory loads. I will let my lawyer show / prove how I am El Cheapo and that is why I reload. I think that will be easier to prove.

    Great info being shared, thanks and keep it going.
     
  3. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I don't care much about bullet construction or velocity.
    As I only take head shots everything I have shot just drops on the spot, had a few with shudders for a few seconds but none ever got up.
    I put shot placement above all else and as such I only have one standard load for each calibre I use.
    It is a very simple system, hit the brain with most anything and it ceases to function immediately, softpoint, hollowpoint, ballistic tip, full metal jacket, roundnose don't matter.

    There is no substitute for Accuracy!

    My main hunting rifle is a 26in heavy barrel Howa bolt action in .223R covers most game here but I also got the same thing in .308W if the pigs are big or Buffalo and camels are around but rarely use it.
     
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  4. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    The laser range finder helps a lot and I calibrated my scope to 1200m so once I get the exact range I just dial up the elevation needed adjust for heat or not. then windage was zip that time as it was just on sun up and the air was still as! Nothing really hard about the shot just needed the camel to co-operate and stay still long enough:D
     
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  5. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    In the early exploring day camels were imported as they were better than horses in the desert.
    When motor vehicles came along the camels were just released, they like it here and breed well, to well.
    The wild camels here are actually a far better breed than from where they actually came from and we sometimes export the better ones to the middle east!
     
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  6. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I love a good debate too. You always learn more from DISagreement than agreement.

    I live in Texas where it is totally legal to kill someone that is trying to kill you, cause you harm or steal from you. If you want to use an elephant gun nobody cares. If you murder someone that isn't doing one of those things to you then it is murder and once again whether you use a 22lr or a 500 mag it is all the same.

    I can assure you that the quality of the ammo that I will bet my life on is as near perfectly assembled as is humanly possible. These loads are tested hundreds of times and then when all the details are settled on I load it in once fired new brass. I like to fire a light load in a case and then inspect clean, size, and trim them all to length before loading my combat loads for my defensive handguns, Hunting rounds for bigger game, and my rather needlessly accurate target rounds.

    the attention to bullet design over my 40 plus years of reloading has been amazing. The bullets used now have made the 9mm, for example, a decent stopper. This is something that was not true with the old school lighter FMJ only rounds. The improvement in the quality and dependability of automatic weapons has allowed this to some extent. I remember when the cops all carry lead cast round nose bullets. Most of my reloading at first was for revolvers and back them I preferred hard cast lead semi-wadcutters. I also loaded a lot of full wadcutters for target shooting that wasn't serious and more of the plinking variety.

    Even the old 38 Special is now a good stopper when loaded with lighter half jacketed hollow point bullets that are moving over 1000fps. Another nice thing about my reloads is that I load different for a 2" barrel than a 4" or longer barrel and manage to get pretty good power out of a snub nose by using fast burning powder like Unique.

    ORRRR load a heavier bullet with a slower powder for that snubbie and at night in close quarters just close your eyes and cut one loose. The ball of fire that comes out with the bullet is blinding and HUGE. The concussion when all the unburned powder suddenly has all the oxygen it needs is pretty impressive too. Your adversary is now blinded, deaf and probably has soiled his drawers and you have not even shot him yet! Reloading can be so much fun!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Outsanding. Tool long to just hit reply but I loved every word and agree completely. Granted I am a bit (okay whole lot) of a fanatic in anything I venture into, so me my hunting loads will be precision loads. My plinking loads will be precision too. I do anticipate a lot of fun in making my ammo as perfect as I am able. Beside I want to see people shake their heads when a $300 dollar rifle shoots .5 MOA at 100 yards. Actually trying for much smaller but i/2 inch should raise a few eyebrows.
       
      TMT Tactical, Mar 16, 2019
  7. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Funny how the really good shots always say no big deal. While us amateurs can only dream of making those kind of shots. Yeah, right, JUST dial up the right elevation, hold steady enough to hit a camel in the head at 1,128 meters. Gee I am sure we could all just make that shoot --- NOT.
     
  8. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Achieving the best accuracy you can is never "useless".

    If the best it can do off a rest is 3", you'll do good to shoot 12" groups offhand.
     
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  9. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    That's still incorrect.
    Speed is what imparts the energy.

    Even if the bullet doesn't expend it all within the target, having more is better than having less, as long as the projectile doesn't self destruct.
     
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  10. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    I've heard that repeated many times over the years, but I've never seen anyone who could show one actual case of a self defense shooting's outcome being determined by the type of ammunition used.

    It's mostly repetition of a theory started by Massad Ayoob.

    If it's a lawful shooting, the type of ammo won't change anything.
    The same applies if it's not.
     
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  11. lalakai

    lalakai Well-Known Member
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    i think someone else stated it pretty clear

    E=MC(squared). energy is dependent on mass as a component of the equation.

    but, this thread is drifting from what I thought the intent was, so I'm gonna drop out it
     
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  12. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    If that were true people could hunt elephants with high-speed. BB guns. The point that you missed is the fact that if the bullet just passes through and goes on it takes much of its potential power away with it. This is often demonstrated by the fact that a 7mm mag, though it is a faster round is not actually a better stopper than say a 270 Winchester at 200 yards or less. The 17 HMR is not as good a stopper as a 30-30 winchester shooting 150 grain bullets even if it is traveling a little faster.
     
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  13. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    When you are reloading you need to use the realities of what the rounds that you are loading will be used. When I am loading to feed a semiautomatic for plinking purposes or even defensive purposes I don't need the micro-specific efforts that are required to achieve 1/2 MOA accuracy. Do you have any idea how long it would take to load a hundred rounds to that level? On top of the time it would cost you a lot more. Boat tail match grade bullets are not as cheap as just regular hunting bullets and new brass for every run would make the cost of your ammo at least as high as top-grade factory loads. It is a waste of your time and effort when you are most interested in shooting cans or animals. A critter won't notice that your bullet was a little off of the exact point of your aim as long as it is close enough to do the job every time.

    "If the best it can do off a rest is 3", you'll do good to shoot 12" groups offhand" ?????

    ????? Go back and actually READ what you quoted. I said ". If the best that you can do offhand standing is a 3" group at 100 yards the ability to shoot a group off sandbags that are 1/2 Minute of angle is useless." The fact is that a group under about 1 1/2" off the bench is as good or better than most factory loads out of most off the shelf rifles in the hands of most shooters can produce.
     
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  14. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Not much longer than it takes to load 100 sloppy rounds.
    It's simply a matter of being consistent.

    I regularly get sub MOA accuracy with various hunting bullets.
    You don't need "match grade" anything to get precision.

    Reading it again won't change what I said.

    That's irrelevant to what was being discussed.
    This isn't about factory ammo at all.

    There are very few modern rifles that won't shoot sub MOA if you try enough different load combinations.

    If your ammo isn't as accurate as possible, it may well not be "close enough".

    The topic here started out as reloading for a couple of long range cartridges where accuracy is as critical as the terminal ballistics:

     
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  15. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    They could with proper shot placement.
    Many have been killed with AK 47's and 7 mm Mausers. ;)

    But you're ignoring the rest of what I said about using the proper projectile in conjunction with the extra velocity.

    A 270 is never "better" than a 7 Mag if you use the proper bullets for the impact velocity.

    New brass for every run would be counter productive once you have brass fire formed to your chamber.

    It would be just like using factory ammo.
     
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  16. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Not being a ballistics expert but have watched hundreds (not kidding) of ballistic Gel testing and I think we can come to a happy medium. When Gel is hit, you see a huge wound cavity up front. Now sometimes the bullet stays in the block and some times you can see it exit. The majority of energy is transfered prior to exit. Granted a FMJ does not expand as fast in gel as it would hitting a solid bone (head shot for Oldguy) and will create a much smaller wound cavity. It all depends on the target, location of the shot and the mass of the bullet and the mass of the target. You are going to need different projectiles and calibers for different targets. If I want squirrel for dinner, I don't think my 300 Win Mag is going to be a good choice. It will do the job of killing the critter but won't leave much for supper. The reverse is just as true. I don't think I would choose my 22 MAG for bear hunting. If I make the eye shot, no problem but being a little off center is going to really irritate old Mr. Bear. Velocity (speed) is important but not the end all. Mass is important but again not the end all. Yes being hit anywhere by a 50BMG is going to be devastating, no matter where you are hit but also requires a lot of expertise to compensate for the ballistics. That is not a point and shoot round. Bottom line, we need to understand and select the best round for out intended target and our shooting style. FMJ is going to work very well for Oldguy. I will be looking at the ELD X line or the Gold Dot line or maybe both.

    Now I do admit my hand gun rounds will not be precision loads. They will be dump charge loads once I have the rounds developed. I do not compete in pistol matches and all my pistol hand gun shooting would be strictly at the up close and personal range. I will buy snake loads, simply because I don't think you can reload them at home. My bolt action long gun rounds will all be precision loads. I do plan to reuse the same case (brass) but I will have starting measurement data recorded and will return the brass back to my preferred dimensions after each firing, if needed. All primer pockets will be uniformed before the first firing. The same with the flash holes. These are a one time operation. After the first preparation, it will just be clean, inspect, measure and correct any out of spec conditions. I will weigh each and every powder charge, for accuracy and my safety.

    For my Force multiplier weapons (AR15) reloads, I will not be using the more expensive bullets. These weapons are more for spray and pray, keep their heads down, type of situations and must compete price wise against factory loads. Basic soft point bullets will be my choice in these weapons.

    Anybody see any flaws in my ting or logic here? I am thin skinned, so don't hesitate to correct any of my assumptions. Fire away (could not resists).
     
  17. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Basic reloading procedures

    1. Deprime

    2. Full length resize

    3. Primer pocket UNIFORMER only need to do this once!

    4. Flashhole de-burrer again only need to do this once

    5. Trim to length minus .05mm and deburr inside and out

    6. Clean inside case neck

    7. Clean cases

    8. Check every case for flaws

    9. Rackem stackem and packem until needed

    10. Prime case

    11. Carefully weigh each powder charge, this is 80% of your accuracy

    12. Seat projectile deep enough to stay well clear of the lands

    13. Wipe down to remove any sweat etc
    14. Done
     
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    1. TMT Tactical
      Outstanding, a very good guide for getting going.
       
      TMT Tactical, Mar 18, 2019
  18. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Full length resize and seating clear of the lands is for reliability as one needs any unfired round to be unchambered complete.
    Leaving a projectile in the barrel and powder through your action is a pain at the range and deadly in defence.

    It makes no measurable difference to accuracy, not in my experience anyway


    Newbie mistakes are most always due to not doing the above properly

    oh and do everything in batch's checking each batch before moving on to the next stage
    Putting 49 powder charges into 50 cases and seating projectiles without checking first will not end good.
     
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  19. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Reloading for pistols is much the same but it is less dependent on powder charge weight and more important on filling the case volume
    I had lots a trouble with .357m loads as the max load only half filled the case and I was getting inconsistent loads and lots of fouling with unburnt powder!
    Simply seating the projectiles deeper by 6mm turned those crappy loads into powerful tack drivers and the fouling was gone.
     
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  20. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I used Hercules 2400 a lot for my 357 target shooting because it did a better job of filling the case. I also did some special stuff loading 357 loads into 38 Special cases and got really good accuracy that way The only reason a 357 case is 1/10" longer than a 38 Special case is to prevent loading the too hot loads in a gun not designed for it. I also always raised my pistol up between shots to help get a more uniform burn.

    One of the strange things that can happen with some fast powders is that ultralight squib loads occasionally detonate with extremely high pressure resulting. Evidently, too much room can be as bad as too much powder in some cases.

    When I was loading for my Mini 14 I did the powder part in lots of 50 and looked into the cases with a flashlight to make sure that each had a full load in it. When you are ripping off runs in a hurry the LAST thing you want is for one to squib load and just push the bullet up a little bit into the barrel and then fire another one into it. I had always assumed that a load to light to actually get the bullet out of the barrel would be too light to make the action work but that is not always true.

    The biggest difference between the more precise target loads and the general loads is that for target loads I am never loading 500 rounds. The lots are smaller and each charge is thrown into the scale light and then brought up to weight with a powder trickler. These are also always loaded in new or near new cases that have been trimmed and specially inspected. When general reloading for fun shooting the charges are not individually weighed. They are thrown by a precision adjustable powder measure and I usually weigh one every 10 to 20 rounds and am not throwing maximum charges. Some people that don't reload much don't understand the difference between loading rounds that are as good as factory loads and loading for a better than possible level of precision for mass production.

    Nowadays progressive presses spit out a round with each stroke of the press once they are set up and going. These machines make very good ammo if you do everything right and the same every time but these are not the kind of rounds that will consistently shoot one hole groups at distance.

    At one time it was not unusual for me to take a couple of people out and shoot 500 rounds in a training session. Target shooting is fun but if you are also interested in practical shooting you need to shoot a lot differently. You aim at a paper target in combat you point and fire. Over time your body will develope the muscle memory and place the bullets where your eyes LOOK without you actually consciously seeing the sights. We usually trained with 3 round series. Our targets had a 10" pie plate in the chest area and a poker sized playing card on the head. Your desire was to put at least two bullets in these kill zones. We did it as fast as possible from all sort of angles and positions often at a dead run. For this kind of shooting you have no need for 1 MOA ammo.
     
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  21. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Very good points TexDanm. My hand gun and AR15 ammo will be dump charges. I don't need or expect them to be precision weapons, especially with me shooting them. I will spend 6 to 8 hours per range visit but only shoot maybe 100 or so rounds. It is not too unusual for me to only shoot 5 to 10 rounds in a 15 minute firing session. Even my AR15 practice is done with the desire to get the smallest groups. My shooting is done at a public range, so no fun and gun stuff allowed. As for run and gun. In my case it would be slowly amble over and gun. I am faster than a grazing turtle. More stable than a two legged stool and I make bats look eagle eye'd. Bench rest it is for me. Snipers are taught to move slow, well that comes natural now.

    The only real difference in my reloading types will be the cost of material. No super quality bullets for the AR Platform. For my EDC / defense pistols, those rounds will be premium. I do want premium expansion. Also being El Cheapo and on a tight budget, there is only so much ammo I can burn each month. I still have too many things on my lists. After the reloading, a few more firearms to get. Then I will get into crossbows. Too darn old to learn true archery, but I am sure I can point and hit with a crossbow. Back on track. I am looking forward to making some top quality ammo and to turning my firearms into reliable and accurate weapons. So much to learn and so much fun ahead. In the past I spent a weekend to load 100 rounds. Not because of precision but a lack of knowledge and quality tools. I really don't expect to load any faster but I do expect to get better results. For me it is a labor of love and no need for speed, I am not going anywhere, so no hurry. I do wish I could actually do some of the run and gun stuff, but trips to the emergency room is not high on my list of activities. So you guys enjoy while you can and make the most of it. Please keep the info and topic going. I learn for every post.
     
  22. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Very few hunters shoot "freehand" if there is an available rest, and especially if the shot is beyond 200 yards.

    About 98% of all big game is killed at less than 200 yards, with most being under 100 yards.

    As long as you match the projectile to the game, you will get good results, assuming shot placement is good.

    I've killed deer with many different cartridges and they all work when you do your part.

    Some just increase the odds of success.

    Most all modern bolt action and semi-auto rifles will shoot sub MOA with the right loads, and they don't have to cost more than a less accurate load.

    It just takes some experimentation and good technique.
     
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  23. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    You can.
    https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/shot-capsules

    My next door neighbor thinks I'm the greatest pistol shot in the world because he saw me shoot a pigeon out of the air with a 44 Mag revolver.

    I didn't tell him it was loaded with shot shells.
    You can use any size shot you like, and you can even mix sizes in one load.
    b4c24d42b3b0f42911e78a26bb872c57.jpeg

    They are best used in revolvers and you may need a very heavy crimp to keep the capsules from backing out under recoil.

    They won't cycle the actions of semi autos.
     
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  24. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    You can still fine tune the accuracy through adjustments of the powder charge and seating depth.

    There's no reason to think your AR can't be just as accurate as the bolt actions.

    It's just a matter of finding a load the gun "likes".

    Study "barrel harmonics" and you will learn a lot about making a gun shoot consistently.
     
  25. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    @Snyper
    Thanks for the reply and the link. I think I would like to reload my own snake loads. I had planned to use the loads in a revolver. My wife's 9 mm will cycle with the snake loads but my 9mm will not. When walking in snake country I carry both pistols, Hers on my dominate side and mine in my cross draw rig. In the future I plan for a 357 revolver and carbine (lever action) so being able to reload the snake loads will be great.

    I will have to give the fine tuning of my AR15's some thought. I do understand I can get better accuracy with the hand loads but not sure the increase is worth the cost. I can get factory SP loads for about $0.20 per round. I will have to measure my factory groups and see how much of improvement is possible and for what cost. Since my AR platform is not intended for 4 legged varmints, it is strictly for plinking and covering fire practice. I like the idea of a real accurate round but not if it is going to increase my shooting costs above my current limits. Time to do some cost research. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  26. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    The brass is the most expensive component, so reloads seldom cost more than good factory loads unless you use premium bullets.

    It's hard to beat the pricing in bulk ammo, and if your gun happens to like a particular load, buy as much of it as you can since the next lot might not give the same results.

    You can get good deals on bullets from Nosler by purchasing "seconds" which might have some cosmetic blemishes but are as accurate as anything else.

    https://www.shootersproshop.com/

    Nosler Ballistic Tips are one of the most accurate projectiles I've ever found.

    I like Hornady XTP's in pistol cartridges and even in Black Powder rifles with Sabots.
     
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  27. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Snyper, I have seen some advertisements for factory seconds but was concerned they were maybe out of spec, not just cosmetic. Good to know. I need to quit wondering and start asking more questions. Thanks for the info.

    Now I will take my own advice. How can you (if you can) tell which brand or manufacture made the factory seconds? In some of advertisements, they did not list the manufacture.
     
  28. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    Seating depth may change your POI but that's about it.

    Semi autos at there best can't match a Bolt action at there best

    If you study barrel harmonics semi autos lose again, why do bolt actions rarely come with front sights any more?
    The front sight screws with barrel harmonics! A semi auto would need a clean free floating barrel to even come close to bolt action accuracy.
     
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  29. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Seating depth can make a big difference in accuracy, but most of the time you're limited by magazine length.

    Some semi autos are more accurate than some bolt actions, so those blanket statements aren't realistic. Every rifle is an entity of it's own.
    Each type at it's best are equally accurate.

    Bolt actions come mostly without sights because most shooters don't want them. The vast majority of shooters will use optical sights anyway, and front sights can snag on things.

    They don't "change" the harmonics unless you add or remove them after you start load testing.

    There are semi-autos with free floated barrels and there are bolt actions that shoot better with a pressure point.

    Again, every rifle is different as to which variables need to be changed to achieve the greatest degree of accuracy.

    It pays to experiment with as many as needed to get the results you want.
     
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  30. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    With Nosler there is no doubt.
    They only have one outlet for their seconds.

    It depends on the component.
    If it's brass it will be head stamped.

    You won't see "seconds" for anything else that I can think of offhand.
     
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  31. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Some firearms will shoot better with the bullets seated as close to the lands as possible.

    Some even do better touching the lands, but that can boost pressure and often only works with heavier bullets for the cartridge.

    https://www.sinclairintl.com/guntech/the-importance-of-bullet-seating-depth/detail.htm?lid=16085

     
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  32. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    In my post I stated that staying well clear of the lands was for reliability Not accuracy
    Same for trimming the case a fraction short.

    A stuck case or projectile sucks on the range but can be deadly otherwise
     
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  33. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I love the debates and exchanges of ideas, concepts and experiences. The question on seconds was in regards to bullets. No head stamp to look at and the seller did not note the manufacture. The problem with buying the seconds (at least in my mind) would be that if the bullets worked great, then you would not know which brand to buy in the future. That is the kind of thing Mr. Murphy would love to do to me. I could just see me getting all excited at finding a great load, only to not be able to replace the bullets when they ran out. Now as to barrel harmonics. That is the reason I chose the Labradar chronograph. I did not want to hang a bayonet style chronograph off my barrel. Again with Mr. Murphy's law, (if it can go wrong ,it will go wrong) it would end up skewing my data on the loads. I shoot / test at a public range, so I am not sticking out a extra target for the idiots to shoot at. I have had folks hit my paper targets down range, I don't want to offer up a $200 target.

    I am getting great feedback and learning much. Outstanding, thanks for all that share. The load testing will be interesting as I balance accuracy with reliability. So much to learn and work on. It is hard to b patient and wait to get all the tools and supplies needed but I will wait, not patiently. Grumble, grumble.
     
  34. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    Then you said:
    As long as it's seated deep enough in the case, and not jammed hard into the lands, it will be "reliable".

    That can still leave a lot of leeway in varying the actual seating depth, and a few thousandths one way or the other can change group sizes.

    Usually it's only very light (for caliber) bullets that can be seated so far out they aren't held well enough by neck tension.

    It doesn't take much experimentation to figure out if your overall length is too long. Most of the time if it fits the magazine it will work.
     
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  35. Snyper

    Snyper Expert Member
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    That puts you at a big disadvantage.

    I can load 5 rounds each of a load with variations in powder weight or seating depth, then run out to my "back yard" and try them out.

    If one or two show promise, I can load a few boxes, or refine them even more.

    When I find things that work well together, I buy enough components to last a long time.

    I never feel like I have to rush to take the shots since I'm not paying for my time or having to work around other shooters.

    I've only been to a public shooting range a couple of times in my entire life.

    I grew up roaming the woods with some sort of gun from the time I was about 6.
     
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  36. Oldguy

    Oldguy Expert Member
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    I have not worked up a load for my new .308 I just bought 1.000rds of factory ammo and will start reloading and finding a new load for this rifle once I have emptied the factory rds. I have binned all my old .308 cases to start anew with the new rifle.

    The job I have now makes it hard to go shooting but it wont last forever
     
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  37. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I would love to be able to just step out he back door and do some testing but that is not to be for a while, if ever. The shooting time cost is next to nothing, $8.00 for all day. I have plenty of time to develop a cartridge but it is the cost of the chronograph that is slowing down the process. Since I won't / can't use a standard chronograph for fear of it being shot and I don't want to hang a bayonet style chronograph off my barrel, that only leaves me the real expensive Labradar chronograph. It uses Doppler radar and is a budget buster but sits safe behind the firing line and does not affect barrel harmonics. Yes I will have to take very careful notes and slowly work up my loads. I plan to start out at the minimal and work my way slowly to the max loads. Record all the Extreme Spread numbers, the Standard Deviation numbers and of course Velocity. By compiling that information I hope to find a couple nodes to focus on. We shall see how it develops. I hope to use the Hornady ELD X ammo but if that does not work out I will shift to the Speer Gold Dot. Between the two, I hope to find some really good loads.

    I love shooting but I don't hunt, don't need the meat. I would love to do some more varmint hunting or even wild pig eradication for farmers or ranchers and they can keep the meet or donate it to those that need it. My goal is to make the most accurate and reliable ammo for my weapons. Saving a bit of shooting money down the road won"t hurt either.
     
  38. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Oldguy, Bulk buying of factory ammo is real expensive but does serve dual purpose. You get to shoot a bunch and still have once fired brass. That maybe a good way for me, way down the road. For now I am starting out with just 100 rounds of brass. Once I am sure of what I am doing and all the pertinent operations, then maybe bulk buys. Keep us informed on how it is progressing. I look forward to following along.
     
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